Fire Mumblem: The Chronicles of Lussaria (Beta 1 Released! 1/2/2014)

[MarkyJoe1990]

I'll send the rest of my ideas to you in PM.

Watch out for it.

/rub head.

My head hurt from thinking so much.

Edit2

I wonders if he got it, or he just happened to block me when I was on trolling spree in late Dec and early Jan... /facedesk

Nah, I got your message... not sure why you didn't just post it here, but I suppose I received your ideas anyway.

Anyway, as much as your ideas are nice, some of them can't be implemented with my current abilities as a hacker, and the others... while nice, aren't ideas I want to go with.

However, with all things said, I think I've decided that instead of giving Archers melee range, I'm going to instead emphasize their versatility to hopefully overshadow their faults... by making every bow 2-3 range.

Since that extra space of range is normally exclusive to rarities like non-occupied ballistas and long-range magic (The former of which I want to increase the appearance of), this will give archers a new niche AND allow them to have a fair fight against mages (each of them has a way to prevent the other from countering). Not only that, but the extra range allows them more options for spots to attack from, such as terrain that is 3 blocks away from the foe. There's also the benefit of being able to attack enemies with three units in a one-tile wide hallway instead of just two. With this in mind, I can design some maps so that having an archer can be a major boon.

So... yeah, it doesn't fix their enemy phase relevance (Or lack thereof), which will still hurt very bad, but I'd be lying if I said I thought making them like physical mages would keep or improve their uniqueness. This? This increases the support role of the Archer.

... Though... that does bring up the issue with Nomadic troopers and their blatant advantages over archers. I'll have to think more deeply into that.

Edited February 24, 2013 by MarkyJoe1990

[Primefusion]

How about having variations of the longbow ala FE10, have them be archer/sniper only, and keeping the availability reasonable? That way it's not 2-3 range everywhere (Which may or may not get out of hand quickly) and archers and nomads have some separation.

Archers as enemies can be rather annoying so making all bows 2-3 compounds that.

[MarkyJoe1990]

How about having variations of the longbow ala FE10, have them be archer/sniper only, and keeping the availability reasonable? That way it's not 2-3 range everywhere (Which may or may not get out of hand quickly) and archers and nomads have some separation.

Archers as enemies can be rather annoying so making all bows 2-3 compounds that.

I'm gonna dabble around with the all 2-3 bows idea a bit more before I try other ideas. So far I'm liking the results. Marina proved very valuable in Chapter 3 because she was the only unit who could safely attack the boss without counter-attack AND stay out of the range of other enemy units, and since the chapter is intentionally trying to make a good case for archers, that's a plus. She has great stats to further up her usefulness, so I think the current plan does a good job softening the blow of enemy phase irrelevance.

As for their competitiveness with nomadic troopers, I... think I might just go and remove the trooper's access to swords. Alternatively, I could have archers promote into Lyn's lord class instead of sniper, so they can use swords as well, while having superior stats to nomadic troopers as another counter to the trooper's better movement. There's also the +15 crit bonus option (Warriors can serve the role of non-crit snipers to reduce frustration).

So yeah... I'll dabble in this further and if I don't like the results, I'll experiment more. This won't be the only experimenting I do either. I've been exploring a lot of ideas I'd consider to be pretty unconventional. Hopefully my experiments will lead to a creative and entertaining experience for the player.

[Crimson Red]

Snipers need a crit boost again and they should have a +20% hit rate over Nomads/Nomadic Troopers, who are on horseback and can't aim as well.

They should also have more defense than Nomadic Troopers, albeit slightly. Keep in mind that nomads have a weakness against various effective weapons. As for archers in general, boosting the awesomeness of Snipers will indirectly make archers a more viable class to use, and increasing the # of 2-3 range weapons as well as ballistic will also help.

if you had the ability, it'd be cool to make it so that if archers/snipers dodge an attack, they can counter for half or maybe even full damage, but if they get hit, they can't, by the logic of a side-step/shoot combo or getting slashed and having to separate oneself again/not being able to counter... It's hard to explain but it'd give them like, half of an enemy phase, keeping their uniqueness without making them AS situational

[Fateborn]

I pm'd you because I wanted to preserve my privacy of ideas.

I didn't have anything to test it with, then you asked for ideas on archer/sniper, so I thought, well perfect, a test subject who has the same mind set on the weakness of archer and sniper as me.

[Crazycolorz5]

- The female sage heals EVERY turn, and has infinite Fortify staff uses. The ASM code required to make this work is thanks to Blazer.

Question: Is this done through a turn event that activates every turn as long as the sage is alive? Or is it done through AI shenanigans(which I have no idea how they work)? Or, even better, could you just make it open source for analysis?

[MarkyJoe1990]

Question: Is this done through a turn event that activates every turn as long as the sage is alive? Or is it done through AI shenanigans(which I have no idea how they work)? Or, even better, could you just make it open source for analysis?

Basically, the ASM sets the health of the first three units to 1, making it low enough that the sage will use fortify every time it's activated, given those three enemy units are within her healing range. I think the ASM also refills her fortify to full, allowing infinite uses.

[Crimson Red]

And events are used to make said 3 units not appear on the map during the player phase, and technically they DO appear on the enemy phase, but their map sprites are invisible and you can't control the cursor on the enemy phase well normally speakingso you can't tell. It's pretty much a big silly gimmick, but it was the only solution I could come up with at the time...

[Crazycolorz5]

What's the RAM offset for enemy units? It's not in the codebreaker list I have, nor can I find it in the akashic records...

[MarkyJoe1990]

What's the RAM offset for enemy units? It's not in the codebreaker list I have, nor can I find it in the akashic records...

Lucky for you, I happen to have that information.

Player:

Starts at 0202BD50 in FE7

Starts at 0202BE4C in FE8

Enemy:

Starts at 0202CEC0 in FE7

Starts at 0202CFBC in FE8

[Klokinator]

I overcame archer weaknesses in FEXP by giving them Pierce, which lets them penetrate enemy defenses. This single skill makes them invaluable in the early game as a boss killer because they are one of only two T1's with an activation skill. Upon promotion they gain Crit +10 and +1 range so they're even better than before and still retain a large amount of usefulness.

Of course this isn't doable in GBAFE, though if you were hacking FE8 then maybe giving the Wyvern Knight pierce skill to an archer would be doable? Idk.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Klok

[Crazycolorz5]

Ah, yes, the "controversial statement". Here's my ideas which may or may not be absurdly unbalenced:

-all normal bows(iron/steel/silver) 2-3 range.

(either this, or increase mt of all bows by 1, hit of iron by 5 and hit of steel by 10 as additional incentive to use archers)

-all special bows(killer, brave) 2 only range

-longbow is 3-5 range; archer/sniper class locked. !!!Not!!! super-effective vs. fliers. Mt increased to 7, hit increased to 75, Wt decreased to 9

-"short" bow is 1 range only(start out your archer with this and an iron bow). Not super effective vs fliers. Should be Mt 3, Hit 95, Crit 0, Wt 4(as to not make snipers into stronger swordmasters)

-Add armor piercing bow that's super-effective vs. armors only. 1 range.

-MAYBE allow snipers-only to use ballistas from inventory.

-Snipers get +15 crit.

-Decrease con of snipers by 1(Maybe?)

Then again I don't like 2-3 bows because they can't be countered with by javelins/hand axes, but those CAN counter magic, so that'd kinda nerf magic but... hrm.

2ND SET OF PROPOSALS:

-all normal bows(iron/steel/silver) get MAJOR stat boosts(Mt+1, Hit+5 or 10, Wt-1, or actually maybe increase WT by 1?)

-longbow keeps previous range. Archer/sniper class locked. Not super-effective vs. fliers. Mt increased to 7, hit increased to 80, Wt decreased to 8, readily available and not expensive.

-"short" bow is 1 range only(start out your archer with this and an iron bow). Not super effective vs fliers. Should be Mt 4, Hit 100, Crit 0, Wt 5

-Add spiked bow(get it? You can physically hit your enemies with it if they get too close :P Okay fine, name subject to change). 1-2 range. Not super eff. vs. fliers. Mt 5 Hit 70 Wt 9 Crit 0 Uses 20. Essentially bow-version of javelin.

-Add armor piercing bow that's super-effective vs. armors only. 1 range only, or 2 range only(can't make up my mind about this :P)

-MAYBE allow snipers-only to use ballistas from inventory.

-Snipers get +15 crit.

[CT075]

Enemy/Player 3 slot 1 0202CEC0

get better at reading the akashic records

[cyron]

i think all bows 2-3 range is all bows need, especially since it makes it far harder to protect soft units and magic users aren't as op once they have sufficient spd to dodge

[Crazycolorz5]

@CT075, what directory is that in?

@Ignis: My argument against that is this: Say you have a Social Knight with a javelin. He's giving up the better accuracy/mt/lower weight of the iron lance so he can attack 2 range(either something out of his range, or so he can counterattack magic users or bow users; let's concern ourselves with the 2nd one for now) So magic users, who are really squishy if they get hit, are now less effective. But they can counterattack anything(including bows) without changing into a worse weapon. Now, if we were to make all bows 2-3 range, then the bow users would be able to snipe the magic users(fair enough), but they also could attack the javelin Social Knight without counterattack. Which personally I think puts mages into a serious disadvantage because archers can take the Social Knights out better and mages are caught in the in-between range wise. MAYBE the "1" part of the range for mages will balance the "3" part of the archers. But I believe that if one is to give up the serious amount of defense to have a mage, then they should be able to counterattack almost everything, whereas archers would just snipe off mages without counterattack if bows were 2-3.

Edit: I'll just make a test map and see if this be overpowered.

Edit: Super-lazy effortless thing I threw together in like half an hour: (removed 'till I can figure this out)

... I should not be able to kill most of the things with only low-leveled archers, is my point.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Crazycolorz5

[CT075]

RAM stuff

also don't link roms

EDIT

and for what it's worth i don't like 2-3 range bows as a solution because it's kind of a cop out and doesn't solve the problem of archers being far more useful to the enemy than the player (why should i bother chipping against the javelin cav when my armor knight/cavalier/etc can handle the damage and do just as well)

i wouldn't mind it being implemented alongside other solutions

Edited March 5, 2013 by CT075

[Nanami Touko]

Crazycolors, your test is flawed. If someone made a hack where archers had 2-3 range, then they would plan around this, thus making it effective for both player and enemy. A test map not designed around this mechanic will always make it look overpowered, but since I trust Marc is an intelligent fellow, if he were to go through with this I'm sure he'd be able to make it balanced.

Also of course you won, you gave all the archers silver bows and made longbows 2-4 range. You heavily biased your test in favor of the archers and then said they were broken? Pft.

Edited March 5, 2013 by seph1212

[Crazycolorz5]

Well, only the player side. They weren't forced to use them. It's a test and not a completion goal. And Ct075, what would be the proper way to easily link to this?

Edit: It's not even supposed to be good :P. It's just to get the feel 2-3 bows being everywhere.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Crazycolorz5

[CT075]

make a patch

edit

since apparently nobody reads my posts in regards to game design i'll say again that i don't feel that 2-3 range archers fixes anything at all, since if that's the only measure taken an archer's core problems still remain. they'll end up filling a niche role now (oh look i can throw some small chip onto a unit without getting countered) but without other fixes (raising the power of bows, making the enemies powerful enough that the chip is WORTH IT, all of which i feel would work by themselves without making each map have to be designed super differently) it doesn't help at all.

as someone who likes to play efficiently, an archer's core problem isn't so much that they have no enemy phase nor is it the inferiority complex against mages and javelins. it's the fact that in general they just don't pack enough punch to make their single attack on player phase worth it. There are archers who avert these problems without consistent 2-3 range (fe4!faval, fe10!shinon or even fe11H5!gordin in the early chapters come to mind for me) and that's how i feel that archers should be modeled.

edit2:

a shoddy little thing thrown together that heavily favors one side or another without actually putting serious thought into the map design isn't going to give anyone the right feel for 2-3 bows ;/

Edited March 5, 2013 by CT075

[Crazycolorz5]

Well, it did highlight one thing for me, which you've addressed in your post. The little "chips" as you say. If an archer doesn't do much damage then they aren't useful at all, even if they do have a ridiculous range. Though i think with some tweaking, a lot of planning, and quite a bit of thought, making the enemies strong enough so that 3,4 or 3x2, 4x2 ish damage makes a HUGE difference would make archers worth it, especially if the enemies are killing your average unit in 2-3 hits, maybe 3-4 for more defensive units(since then the no-counterattack thing is pretty vital.) Making them capable of surviving a few hits(2-3-ish?) would also be a reason to favor them over mages; you can take your shield units and move them around to surround enemies without fear of a stray enemy rushing in and 1-hitting your archers, whereas they might with a mage. ... My thought on this are fried for now. I might edit this later.

Edit1: I'm still in favor of an armor-piercing bow though that deals bonus damage on knights/generals.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Crazycolorz5

[MarkyJoe1990]

We're still working on this, everyone.

To explain why it's been so long since the last update: A LOT of changes were made regarding the level design. To give you an idea, I redesigned chapter 3 six times because I was displeased with it's quality.

Thankfully, I've finished the map/level design for that chapter. I also redesigned chapter 1 and 2 because I felt they lacked cohesiveness.

Here's chapter 3:

I try to design my chapters so that you are constantly interested and engaged. Things are always happening, and there's never a moment where you're just moving units for an entire turn. I also make sure to put numerous sub-objectives that require precise strategies. There's nothing quite like rewarding the player for playing well, no?

Aside from surviving, there are two optional objectives here: Recruiting the Lord character (Called Tangst), and defeating Billy the Bazoika (Blatantly stolen from MageKnight404. Basically Bazoikas lack the crit bonus), which earns you an early steel axe (14 Might!). The brigands near the lord are positioned in a way so that they can only approach him one turn after the other (The first brigand attacks on turn 1, the other can reach him on turn 2, etc). It's mainly for show though. The REAL issue is that on turn 4 and turn 5, pegasus riders spawn in the top forts and attack him. You absolutely need to reach him by turn 4 or else his survival by that point is in luck's hands.

Turn 3, Billy shows up in the middle fort surrounded by mountain. Additionally, EVERY FORT on the map except for the top two spawn brigands. By this point in the chapter, you'll hopefully have defeated the other enemies or else you're in for one hell of a clusterfuck.

So yeah, needless to say, this chapter is hard as nuts (I'd say near lunatic difficulty by permadeath FE standards). But hey, no permadeath, right? Even without permadeath though, I definitely think most people will struggle to achieve all the objectives in this chapter. I'm considering nerfing it slightly, but hey, no one says you gotta get all the objectives. You can recruit the lord while killing the boss on the same turn (At least if I remember correctly), so you'll only miss out on some EXP and the Steel Axe.

Anyways, as for the lord dude, his base stats aren't particularly special, but his growths are fantastic, and he's the ONLY unpromoted unit in the entire game that can wield two weapons: Swords and Lances, which gives him weapon triangle dominance with the help of a lancereaver. Additionally, he gains instant access to the Reginleif by visiting the village he's defending.

So uh... not much else to say. I just wanted to let everyone know we're still working on this, and I'm working especially hard to make sure the chapters are interesting and well designed.

[Crimson Red]

Quality looks great; looking forward to a little more from the quantity side. Keep up the good work.

[Burgerling]

Wow, this looks great. I am really looking forward to this.

On a side note, I think an Axe-Armor/Knight Class would fit Poalski's personality alot more.(But i guess those aren't included in the game, what a shame)

[Chocolate Kitty]

Oh, hey, I remember this map sort of(it looks a bit different from what I remember), and that looks sort of like FE5's overworld palette as well.

I'm not sure if I should be critiquing in this topic though, so I will wait for an answer.

[MarkyJoe1990]

Oh, hey, I remember this map sort of(it looks a bit different from what I remember), and that looks sort of like FE5's overworld palette as well.

I'm not sure if I should be critiquing in this topic though, so I will wait for an answer.

FE5 inspired me to use a darker colored palette. I went with something that looked colorful and lush. It looks pretty good, I think. As for it's familiarity... not sure what you mean. I didn't base this map on anything.

As for critiques, it's a little early for that. I plan to have the first patch out once the first four chapters are finished, so can it wait for when/if you play the hack?

Or is this something that needs immediate addressing?

Edited May 14, 2013 by MarkyJoe1990