Am I a bad person?

[Joerachi]

I'm a junior in high school, and I've been taking AP English as of this year. I have a few friends in this class which makes it much more bearable.

However, there is ONE person among them that has been picking away at my nerves since the first few weeks. She has been consistently asking for what certain words are used on a weekly vocabulary quiz. These quizzes aren't particularly hard, but it's not just simple multiple choice stuff. 10 words (of 20) from that unit and 5 from previous units. I didn't think much of it the first 2-3 times, but then I decided I didn't like that, so I started making excuses like "Oh I forgot them". Then I just danced around the question completely, but it didn't matter, because there were about 3 other people who were willing to do so. I've tried to get them to stop subtlety, but that failed. So, today, I finally brought it to teacher's attention, and he agreed to changing the words for that classes quiz to the inverse words, and if I'm right, would probably cause a pretty hard drop in % for that person and anyone else who happened to employ that tactic. I thought that would be it.

But as today unfolded, something else this person did completely disgusted me. She had went home early yesterday because she was sick, and missed a pretty freaking hard test (Equivalent of the SR portion of the AP Exam.). Today in my Media class, I saw her writing answers down on a discreet slip of paper, which would be unnoticed because people who missed it were sent to the library to complete it. We went over the answers in class today, and my other friend, I suspect, gave them answers.

I can't in good conscious let this slip by as it's wrong, and utterly insulting to people worked hard and won't even get to do as well. What do you guys suggest I do? I feel like I have to do something about it, but using their name would lead to a confrontation from the teacher, and there were only 2 people who would've even known (Myself and the person who let them cheat), and it would easily point to me, which would be less than beneficial.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Joerachi

[Konnor97]

I think you should tell your teacher what you saw in private, and explain that if he/she talked to the girl, to not say who told on her, so she can't suspect anyone right away except for who gave the answers or whatever in the first place. If the girl would say that you did it, and if the teacher comes back to you about that, just explain that it wouldn't make sense for you to tell her the answers and then rat her out just to be a jerk, because you're better than that. If the girl would blame someone else/ tell who did it, just let it be like that, and try not to get involved more into it. That should hopefully help. Oh, and if anyone who reads this disagrees/points out something for whatever reason, feel free to.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Konnor97

[Hero]

Different people struggle with different things in school. For me learning new vocabulary is a cinch, especially in English because as somebody who reads a lot I've usually seen all the words before. But I could see how somebody who isn't into learning languages the way I am might have a harder time, just like I seem to take significantly longer than most other computer science students to solve complicated math problems or internalize theorems. I would normally expect that the girl you're talking about is probably a strong English student because she's in AP English in 11th grade, but assuming anything is dangerous, and many parents pressure their kids to take AP classes in subjects that they have no particular interest or gift in because taking a lot of AP classes is seen as a mark of a good student.

Taking shortcuts in school (i.e., cheating on tests) is very rarely a good idea, since even in a hypothetical zero-risk scenario you can over-leverage yourself and end up in classes (or even schools) that you aren't prepared to succeed in. If you always cheat on tests and never study, you'll probably also be a little bit lost most of the time in lectures and class discussions. Your teachers will probably expect more from you than you are prepared to deliver in general as well. So even when we hand-wave questions of risk and risk and integrity to the side, there is a very strong case to be made that cheating is a bad idea. However, I don't think that justifies tattling on your classmates, especially in an English class where in all likelihood your grades are not set to a curve.

Unless you know this girl's life inside-out, I don't think it's right to judge her. If you really strongly disagree with her decision to cheat on a moral ground and you want to make sure she understands why you feel that way, maybe you could call her out in private, tell her what you saw and why you think it's not cool. But to rat her out and cause her to fail the test, and maybe the class, and maybe even get kicked out of school? Think about it. Would she be cheating in the first place if she wasn't under some kind of heavy pressure to succeed in the class? It's OK, even admirable sometimes to take a moral stand but we should always consider the potential harm and benefit of our actions to others. Making somebody else's life take a turn for the worse by turning them in is a lot more likely to cause anger and resentment than recalcitrance. You might say that she has accepted the risk by choosing to cheat, but the difference is that if she gets caught on her own it's on her, not on you.

[Agro]

who the fuck cares it's high school

[Jubby]

what agro said. if you cheat on a test in high school it legit means next to nothing.

[Melonhead]

I'd agree with Hero, I wouldn't assume that she was cheating, although she probably was. As for how to deal with it, possibly tell the teacher, or just let it slip by. But as with agro said, don't take it too seriously, as it is just high school, and won't affect you that much. Just don't cheat yourself, especially on the bigger exams, or when in college.

[Joerachi]

Different people struggle with different things in school. For me learning new vocabulary is a cinch, especially in English because as somebody who reads a lot I've usually seen all the words before. But I could see how somebody who isn't into learning languages the way I am might have a harder time, just like I seem to take significantly longer than most other computer science students to solve complicated math problems or internalize theorems. I would normally expect that the girl you're talking about is probably a strong English student because she's in AP English in 11th grade, but assuming anything is dangerous, and many parents pressure their kids to take AP classes in subjects that they have no particular interest or gift in because taking a lot of AP classes is seen as a mark of a good student.

Taking shortcuts in school (i.e., cheating on tests) is very rarely a good idea, since even in a hypothetical zero-risk scenario you can over-leverage yourself and end up in classes (or even schools) that you aren't prepared to succeed in. If you always cheat on tests and never study, you'll probably also be a little bit lost most of the time in lectures and class discussions. Your teachers will probably expect more from you than you are prepared to deliver in general as well. So even when we hand-wave questions of risk and risk and integrity to the side, there is a very strong case to be made that cheating is a bad idea. However, I don't think that justifies tattling on your classmates, especially in an English class where in all likelihood your grades are not set to a curve.

Unless you know this girl's life inside-out, I don't think it's right to judge her. If you really strongly disagree with her decision to cheat on a moral ground and you want to make sure she understands why you feel that way, maybe you could call her out in private, tell her what you saw and why you think it's not cool. But to rat her out and cause her to fail the test, and maybe the class, and maybe even get kicked out of school? Think about it. Would she be cheating in the first place if she wasn't under some kind of heavy pressure to succeed in the class? It's OK, even admirable sometimes to take a moral stand but we should always consider the potential harm and benefit of our actions to others. Making somebody else's life take a turn for the worse by turning them in is a lot more likely to cause anger and resentment than recalcitrance. You might say that she has accepted the risk by choosing to cheat, but the difference is that if she gets caught on her own it's on her, not on you.

Thanks for this pretty well thought out response.

I figured I shouldn't do so on the large test, considering it's after the fact and I couldn't do much about that. I do believe the vocabulary quiz word switch is going to be a wake-up call. This quizzes are given out weekly, and would average out pretty shortly. But that's probably not the point you're trying to make.

In honesty, the class itself isn't terribly difficult. You can't easy mode on through it, but if you think when your in the class and take it seriously, you'll come out smelling like a rose. I feel that she isn't taking this very seriously. I felt that it was insulting to me and people who have to prepare more for these things, and this person among possible others who employed this tactic have literally half to prepare for. And, while I can't say for sure that there is something pressuring her to be doing well, I can say that these things have happened before in previous years on some lower level classes that, to my knowledge, weren't very stressful.

To be honest, I've considered confronting her about this, if not for the fact she is dating one of my closest friends, and I'm pretty scared about what would happen to that if I went through with that.

[Original Alear]

To be honest, I've considered confronting her about this, if not for the fact she is dating one of my closest friends, and I'm pretty scared about what would happen to that if I went through with that.

Hmm. Does this mean that you don't respect her enough to value the rules about her academic conduct over her grades?

Then I wouldn't be upset that she values her grades over the rules. I think that doesn't even require as much disrespect of you, or other hardworking students, as your posts seem to convey towards her. Even if she doesn't respect you, it's not like you respect her. Fair is fair, right?

Reconsider if you can state your problem assertively, honestly tell her you are thinking about taking action with the teacher, and ask her to modify her conduct. That's the way that is most respectful. You did already say

I've tried to get them to stop subtlety, but that failed.

I took that to mean you had never really talked to the student in question about that and tried to put your perspective on the table, openly and honestly. If you can do that, and you feel pretty confident you can do so without getting into some dumb fight, I would do it. Of course, there's a good chance you don't feel you can, because you apparently haven't. If you can't accord someone enough respect to treat them like an adult, you probably shouldn't bother treating them like a brat over something this petty. That's just my feeling.

But I will say that I've frequently been pleasantly surprised when I confront someone about something idiotic, but show a measure of humility. Some people I once thought little of have even surprised me with a very generous span of attention and support when I've been idiotic without showing humility.

I felt that it was insulting to me and people who have to prepare more for these things, and this person among possible others who employed this tactic have literally half to prepare for

Have you talked to the other people who have to prepare more for these things about cheating (even in general, not with this specific person in mind) and seen how they feel about someone else cheating while they work hard? I wouldn't act for their sake if you don't know what they think about this - in fact, I think you're treating them much more disrespectfully by presuming to know how they would feel, assuming you have not talked to them. If you have talked to them, that puts things in a new light, I think.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Mouse

[Rehab]

Very nice SeverIan, I assumed you were going to joke about stopping subtlety.

[viyut]

Personally i hate people who cheat, not only it's unfair to the people who actually study, it's also one of the reasons there's so many unskilled professionals on my country. There used to be quite a few cheaters on my high school class, like a girl who sat beside me in the class and who cheated on pretty much every single test in the three years of high school, and she went to a law school to be a judge(the law system on my country already sucks, it needs to get better, not worse).

If i were you i wouldn't tell the teacher(it could backfire), since you don't want to start a war in that class you should confront her directly. Ask her why does she cheats. Maybe you can convince her to study instead of cheat.

[Original Alear]

Very nice SeverIan, I assumed you were going to joke about stopping subtlety.

Oh, I thought about it, rest assured I thought about it.

AND WHEN I FEEL THAT WAY

I THIRST AND I WANT TO SHOUT IT

trust me lord, to be

quiet about it.

(Hmm, it's sort of like a draft-dodger's Baruch Shem)

Edited November 15, 2012 by Mouse

[eclipse]

If she gets ratted out by someone else, and it comes to light that you knew about it and said nothing, will YOU get in trouble? If the answer is yes, I suggest doing something about it (i.e. discreetly tell the teacher and make sure you're not named). If not, then it's your call.

[Quasar Quasar]

I had friends who used to do this throughout highschool (avoid work, copy answers, etc.) They took the easy way out at nearly every opportunity. It eventually caught up to them. We're 2 years and a half out of college now, and I've found a job straight out of college. They're still living at home and unemployed.

[Parrhesia]

Hm... nah.

aka don't rat on her, christ, it's some words in high school, who even gives a shit

Edited November 15, 2012 by Furetchen

[Ein]

I don't get why people always downplay high school shenanigans. ._.

[Joerachi]

I took that to mean you had never really talked to the student in question about that and tried to put your perspective on the table, openly and honestly. If you can do that, and you feel pretty confident you can do so without getting into some dumb fight, I would do it. Of course, there's a good chance you don't feel you can, because you apparently haven't. If you can't accord someone enough respect to treat them like an adult, you probably shouldn't bother treating them like a brat over something this petty. That's just my feeling.

I actually was refering to trying to stop the others feeding into that, and letting the person obtain this information.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Joerachi