A theory about Ike and Paris

[Just call me AL]

Also, does Paris have any convo's with Mist implying she's his ancestor? Doesn't seem right to have him be Mist's descendant and then not bring it up if he talked to her. (She's DLC IIRC).

He doesn't. Which is another thing that doesn't make sense if (again, that's a pretty big if) he's Mist's decendant rather than Ike's.

Besides, we all know Ike X Clea is the true OTP.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Little Al

[shadowofchaos]

Wait, CAN others besides Paris use Ragnell? Ragnell might not be locked to Paris, but it could still be exclusive to him.

Not really. Being locked to a character and no other characters being able to use it are two different things. Being locked to a character means that you can't move the item from that character's inventory at all, not even to storage. Hence, locked to the character. A bunch of other characters could still be able to use it.

When I meant "locked", I meant Chrom's Falchion locked. Anyone can carry it, but only he and Marth can use it.

What you're talking about is FE10 only mechanic. If anything your "weapon lock" terminology is the weird one.

However, that doesn't matter. Because it's a big fat NOPE. I've got nothing better to do on a Friday. Here, let Ikey-poo show you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0ms9w3pVk8

Edited February 1, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

Well, I had not known that Awakening didn't have the same mechanic. Also, now I'm disappointed Ike won't recognize his own sword. Cause that really doesn't make sense to me. It also doesn't make sense that the game is using his PoR art when his RD self is the most recent Ike before this game.

[Nanami Touko]

it's because PoR Ike is better than Mike

[Just call me AL]

It also doesn't make sense that the game is using his PoR art when his RD self is the most recent Ike before this game.

That's because more than one version of the same past character is present in the game, and Spotpass!Ike happens to be on Team Path of Radiance.

And ditto what Seph said.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Little Al

[Anacybele]

That's because more than one version of the same past character is present in the game, and Spotpass!Ike happens to be on Team Path of Radiance.

Oh, I see. Geez, this game acts like RD never existed. But I can live with that, actually. lol

[Snowy_One]

It may just be a matter of people liking PoR Ike's appearance more. I wouldn't fault them on it either as RD Ike looks... so generically heroistic. I mean, look: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsc7mgIVzR1qjskuzo1_r2_500.jpg

How can you NOT look at that and see every RPG hero ever?

[Anacybele]

It may just be a matter of people liking PoR Ike's appearance more. I wouldn't fault them on it either as RD Ike looks... so generically heroistic. I mean, look: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsc7mgIVzR1qjskuzo1_r2_500.jpg

How can you NOT look at that and see every RPG hero ever?

First of all, that's fanart, and second, that's still PoR Ike you're showing, just in his Lord outfit. THIS is RD Ike. And he looks so hot and strong and manly. <3

PoR Ike is still hot too, imo, but I just think he got even SEXIER in RD. :3

Edited February 1, 2013 by Anacybele

[shadowofchaos]

but I just think he got even SEXIER in RD. :3

Buff McManroids.

[Momo]

Why are people stuck on Ragnel? It literally does not matter what Ike did with the sword at all. This game takes place thousands of years after any of that stuff happened, it would not be that hard to imagine it finding its way into Paris' hands no matter what happened.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Momo

[Snowy_One]

Actually it would be hard to imagine. Ike made it to Valm by pure chance basically. There are a lot of ways he could have eventually died, but I'll be gracious and assume he kicked the bucket from old age after being a hero in Valm and Ragnell got buried in a stone crypt with him. This is as optimal as it gets for one of his descendants to come to Valm and find Ragnell on their own. However, even with these restrictions the descendant would still have to realize that the two people are the same, the crypt would have to still be standing and unraided (some Valm person might have made his way there hoping to claim Ike's legendary blade), he would have to know Ragnell was buried with Ike, then intentionally raid the crypt for a sword that he doesn't know is anything other than some two-hander he could find in the marketplace. So unless this descendant is Tellius Jack and looks suspiciously like Harrison Ford, it's still unlikely that the blade got stumbled across by pure chance. Never mind if Ike got buried in a dirt grave, never made a huge name for himself, or died in such a way as to not leave a grave (had a heart attack, got killed by wild animals, or the like) at which point the location of Ragnell would almost certainly be lost. Even if Valm is only the size of the American NE, that's still a LOT of ground to cover and a LOT of dumb luck that the sword not only be found by pure random chance, but be found by a descendant of Ike who likely only knows it from paintings and statues IF he is lucky enough for it to have not been warped beyond identification over the passage of time and artistic license changing the public perception of it.

Regardless of the mother, the simple fact is that Ike had to either give Ragnell directly to them or his kid in order for it to get passed down and not lost.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Snowy_One

[Momo]

Um, no, you're thinking way too hard about this. Let's say Ragnel was buried with Ike in your ridiculous little story, are you saying something like four thousand years would go by without a single person ever taking it? Anri used Falchion a hundred years before the first game, and it still wasn't in Marth's possession.

Quit thinking of Paris as a single generation down from Ike.

[Just call me AL]

The question is how Ragnell made it to Valencia. Like I said, it's a difficult path to follow, and somehow landing in Valencia, or even managing to make it back, by sheer dumb luck would require an extremely contrived coincidence. I'm definitely willing to bet Ike took the sword with him on his journey away from Tellius, and eventually settling down in Valencia.

Plus there's also the fact that by the time of Awakening, Ike is renowned outside of Tellius despite having left the continent in question. I find it highly unlikely for Ike's descendants, or Mist's descendants for that matter, to have journeyed from Tellius to Valencia, and just happened to spread Ike's legend then and there. Because if anything, not a lot of Valencians wouldn't even know who Ike is. Maybe they'd know who Alm is. Maybe they'd know who Cellica is. They might even know who Anri, the Crusaders of Jugdral, Marth, Sigurd, or Seliph all are. But knowing who Ike is? They most likely wouldn't know unless if Ike did something significant beforehand.

[Pervio]

But what are the chances of Mist being given Ragnell before Ike leaves Tellius? It seems rather implausible that any of her descendants try to trace Ike's steps and somehow wind up on Archanea/Valencia. If that was the case, I would think that the legend of the Hero of the Blue Flames would have much less of a time to spread throughout the world Archanea and Valencia are in. Not to mention it was easier for Marth to claim he was Anri's descendant, especially since he literally had the blood to do so, if you know what I mean. For Paris to do the same with Ike just feels rather far-fetched even when just looking at him.

Besides, Paris doesn't even have a conversation with Mist for crying out loud! Don't you think they would at least interact if Paris actually was Mist's decendant?

Good point, but Ragnall is old and rusted as hell in the official art, so if per say he is Ike's and not Mist's, then he'd at best be grand, grand, grand, grandchild or the likes. It's not unlikely for him to obtain it over a long period of time. Either way, it doesn't seem like Paris got it directly from Ike, or Ike doesn't treat his own weapons right, lol.

Edit: Fail, on my behalf, someone posted the conversation from before.

At the very least, it confirms Paris is not directly Ike's child nor his grandson, which means around at least ~60+ years had gone by. A lot could happen that time, so the Mist possibility is still up in the air.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Pervio

[Momo]

The question is how Ragnell made it to Valencia. Like I said, it's a difficult path to follow, and somehow landing in Valencia, or even managing to make it back, by sheer dumb luck would require an extremely contrived coincidence. I'm definitely willing to bet Ike took the sword with him on his journey away from Tellius, and eventually settling down in Valencia.

Plus there's also the fact that by the time of Awakening, Ike is renowned outside of Tellius despite having left the continent in question. I find it highly unlikely for Ike's descendants, or Mist's descendants for that matter, to have journeyed from Tellius to Valencia, and just happened to spread Ike's legend then and there. Because if anything, not a lot of Valencians wouldn't even know who Ike is. Maybe they'd know who Alm is. Maybe they'd know who Cellica is. They might even know who Anri, the Crusaders of Jugdral, Marth, Sigurd, or Seliph all are. But knowing who Ike is? They most likely wouldn't know unless if Ike did something significant beforehand.

Again, thousands of years. Way more contrived things have happened in this series than a sword making its way across a continent.

[Just call me AL]

Again, thousands of years. Way more contrived things have happened in this series than a sword making its way across a continent.

Except for the fact that Tellius and Valencia aren't even in the same world. Interdimensional travel is harder than a boat ride between continents. Chances are, any relatives Ike has in Tellius aren't even gonna guess that he traveled between dimensions.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Little Al

[Snowy_One]

It's not that it's contrived. It's that it's very contrived for something that makes no sense for them to do for a small-little tidbit of an easter egg. It would be one thing if recovering the blade was a key story point, but as far as I can tell, it's not. And remember, Ike and his descendants are not the only people around. Adding years drastically reduces the chances that Paris would have it. Let's say Ike passed it down his line. There is no guarantee Ike's kid would keep Ragnell (instead of pawning it for money), not lose it by random chance, and wouldn't die before getting to pass it on. That happens for EVERY generation after Ike's. Adding generations only increases the chances that something bad would happen to it.

If the blade doesn't get passed along to Ike's kid by Ike or the mother, then not only does the kid have the same problems (if he finds it) as above, but he now has to deal with the added risk of the sword being buried or discovered by someone else, and if it ever reaches the marketplace there is no guarantee it won't end up in the hands of some sword collector in the ass-end of nowhere who recognizes that it's an unusual blade and stores it away in some value from which none of Ike's descendents will see it again. Once again, the odds of these things increase EVERY year that the blade is out of Ike's line, especially since Paris's family would probably start to treat the tale more like legend than fact.

Adding years does not help the case. It hurts it bigtime, especially since Paris being Ike's decedent is a nod to the series and prior games, not a story plotpoint.

[Anacybele]

Except Paris DOES have it, Snowy_One. So your whole point is moot. xP

[Snowy_One]

The fact that he has it is kind of my point. It's very, very, unlikely that it got stumbled on by random chance and adding years only decreases those chances, especially if it's out of Ike's line. So most likely it stayed within Ike's linage instead of getting discovered again. Besides, if it got discovered again, it would either be a national treasure (if Ike was a hero there) or a meaningless blade (if he decided to settle down) and both make it far more unlikely for Paris to have it than if it just simply got passed down to Ike's kid.

[Just call me AL]

Besides, the question isn't how it came to be in Paris's possession. It's how it managed to travel dimensions between Tellius's world and Archanea's/Valencia's/Jugdral's world. What you're saying pretty much supports the notion that Ike took Ragnell with him on his eventually interdimensional trip.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Little Al

[Sunwoo]

Here's a question: why do we care so much?

I mean, unless it gets expounded on a future Fire Emblem game, does it really matter whose line Paris came from? Personally, I think that it's far less convoluted to just assume that Paris is some something-great descendant of Ike than trying to say "oh he could be Mist's descendent" but I don't really care all that much.

[Prax]

lol

I am pretty sure Ike gave the sword back to Sanaki again, anyway. Why would he take Begnion treasure with him?

Tellius might have needed a hero again at some point, but Ike's not around so they chose to give it to the next best bet: Ike's relative via Mist line who can wield the sword. As long as you're related distantly and can wield the sword, you're good to go calling yourself a descendant!

Anyway, everyone being so invested is all according to Paris' keikakku.

[Anacybele]

The fact that he has it is kind of my point. It's very, very, unlikely that it got stumbled on by random chance and adding years only decreases those chances, especially if it's out of Ike's line. So most likely it stayed within Ike's linage instead of getting discovered again. Besides, if it got discovered again, it would either be a national treasure (if Ike was a hero there) or a meaningless blade (if he decided to settle down) and both make it far more unlikely for Paris to have it than if it just simply got passed down to Ike's kid.

Ohhh. I see now. You had me kind of confused at first.

EDIT: Prax, actually, there is a way that Ike could've still taken the blade with him if he gave it back to Sanaki at the end of RD. Who's to say that Valencia was Ike's first stop when he left? He could have found other undiscovered territory within Tellius's world first. Sanaki could've found out where he was and sent the blade back to him feeling that it belonged with him.

Hey, Ike's ending said he was never SEEN again. Not that he wasn't HEARD FROM again. :P

Edited February 2, 2013 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

[2/1/13 11:31:42 PM] JBCWK: my theory is still the best

[2/1/13 11:32:00 PM] JBCWK: aiku had a ONE NIGHT STAND before getting the hell out of tellius

[2/1/13 11:32:14 PM] JBCWK: elincia gets PREGGERS and the kid goes off to look for AIKU

[2/1/13 11:32:17 PM] JBCWK: FE14 done and done

[2/1/13 11:32:42 PM] JBCWK: and geoff still gets married to lincy

[2/1/13 11:32:09 PM] Boron: Also, why couldn't Ike have asexually reproduced and produced Paris

[2/1/13 11:32:45 PM] Terrador: nonono

[2/1/13 11:32:46 PM] Terrador: You see

[2/1/13 11:32:50 PM] Terrador: Lincy stealth-rapes Ike

[2/1/13 11:32:53 PM] Terrador: And that is how it happened.

[2/1/13 11:32:57 PM] Terrador: Alternatively

[2/1/13 11:33:03 PM] Terrador: Despair Horizon sex between Ike and Elincia

[2/1/13 11:33:08 PM] Terrador: When they both think they're gonna die in the Tower

[2/1/13 11:33:10 PM] Terrador: And then, BABBY

Edited February 2, 2013 by Sangyul

[Just call me AL]

Remember. Ike's FE10 ending explicitly states Ike was never seen again by anyone in Tellius. Sanaki wouldn't even know how to contact him on Valencia. How do you establish contact between worlds anyways? Let alone different dimensions? FE's not a Sci-Fi series, you know.

Besides, didn't she give him the sword as advanced pay?

Edited February 2, 2013 by Little Al