FE9 0% growths LTC

[Espinosa]

YouTube playlist:

 

I watch dondon's YouTube videos all the time and this seems like the only FE game where a 0% growths run hasn't been properly recorded/documented. I got help from Vincent with hacking the game's growths (had no idea where to find the tools), so I'm finally playing through the whole thing myself. Been thinking about how a run like this would go for like a year now, so I'm really impatient to progress. Sharing it here hoping I could get somebody interested/entertained, and to encourage discussion.

0% growths seems vastly different from a regular one, as units reliant on BEXP (Marcia, Jill, etc.) to grow and trivialise the game/rack up low turns are noticeably inferior. I guess Titania still rocks and does so even without growths just knowing that the rest of the team is worse for a long period of time? She's not outclassed as a Paladin until after Geoffrey joins, so she's unique for most of the game. I guess Master Sealed/BEXP'd Kieran beats her in strength and defence by 1 point (losing in resistance, skill and luck, as well as ranks) so a 2nd Titania will be nice for a while. I can see myself benefiting from fielding units like Janaff, ones I'd usually ignore. Maybe Devdan will even fight like 10 men? 10 men who are like Rolf anyway.

I'll be going for low turns because that makes it frustrating fun.

I'm not used to managing playlogs but recording videos of challenge playthroughs is a longterm habit for me. I'm used to leaving what I hope to be well-described strategies and descriptions of participants involved on YouTube (though it seems like not a whole lot of people care so I'm more product-oriented). The descriptions might contain a lot of unnecessary detail for Serenes folks, but since people who follow me tend to have regular to no knowledge of FE or other stuff I record, this is how I've always been doing it. I'm playing this on Dolphin and the sound is pretty bad (I keep losing sound effects or the OST randomly) and there's a bit of lag too, so I sped up the recording a bit (FE9 is a slow game with those map animations after all) and replaced the audio with the original music from the game.

I'll also use this thread to comment on something more in-depth, talk to myself and hopefully others as well voicing concerns and frustration and whatnot.

Here I'll post my turn counts, stat booster and skill use, supports and promotions:

Turn counts:

 

P 4 turns
1 2 turns
2 4 turns
3 3 turns
4 2 turns
5 6 turns
6 4 turns
7 5 turns
8 8 turns
9 7 turns
10 4 turns
11 5 turns
12 5 turns
13 7 turns
14 2 turns
15 3 turns
16 5 turns
17-1 3 turns
17-2 3 turns
17-3 10 turns
17-4 2 turns
18 6 turns
19 2 turns
20 2 turns
21 5 turns
22 1 turn
23 4 turns
24 3 turns
25 3 turns
26 3 turns
27 4 turns
28 3 turns

 

Stat boosters:

 

Seraph Robe Reyson
Speedwings Titania
Ashera Icon sold
Talisman missed
Arms Scroll Rhys
Statue Frag Janaff
Dracoshield Tanith
Seraph Robe missed
Secret Book Ena
Arms Scroll Haar
Energy Drop Ena
Speedwings Stefan
Secret Book missed
Spirit Dust Elincia
Statue Frag nobody
Boots Tanith
Ashera Icon Stefan
Dracoshield Tanith
Energy Drop Ena
Spirit Dust missed

 

Skills:

 

Miracle missed
Counter nobody
Occult Titania
Vantage nobody
Guard nobody
Occult Kieran
Gamble nobody
Adept Ena
Wrath Ena
Smite Muarim
Provoke Janaff
Saviour Janaff
Nihil missed
Resolve Ena

 

Supports:

 

 

10 Titania X Ike C
13 Titania X Ike B
14 Kieran X Marcia C
14 Kieran X Rhys C
15 Jill X Lethe C
15 Jill X Mist C
16 Titania X Mist C
17 Jill X Lethe B
18 Marcia X Kieran B
18 Stefan X Mordecai C
18 Jill X Mist B
19 Tanith X Marcia C
20 Tanith X Reyson C
20 Shinon X Janaff C
20 Muarim X Lethe C
21 Stefan X Mordecai B
22 Jill X Mist A
22 Titania X Mist B
22 Titania X Rhys C
22 Kieran X Rhys B
23 Ike X Reyson C
24 Tanith X Reyson B
24 Mordecai X Ranulf C
25 Mordecai X Ranulf B
25 Bastian X Lucia C
25 Bastian X Volke C
26 Ike X Reyson B
26 Tanith X Marcia B
27 Elincia X Geoffrey C
27 Tauroneo X Largo C
27 Janaff X Lucia C
27 Bastian X Volke B
27 Ranulf X Lethe C
27 Largo X Muarim C
28 Largo X Muarim B

 

Promotions:

 

11 Kieran
12 Marcia
12 Zihark
14 Jill
17 Mist
21 Rhys

Here's the first video, showing maps from Prologue up to Chapter 4.
 

 

So far (up until chapter 10) I've been managing to maintain respectable turn counts (though not the Aeine/speedrunning level) but I expect to lose quite a bit to a normal run beginning with, maybe, chapter 12?

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Espinosa

[Momentai~]

This should be interesting...

Are you doing this on hard mode? It looks like it based on the enemy density in chapter 4 and the lower exp yield, but I just wanted to make sure.

Good luck to you!

[DarkBladeSeth]

Question: If you level up someone using BEXP, he/she will gain stats?

[Silith]

No Path of Radience gives you level-ups like normal unlike RD where you get 3 stats automatically.

[PKL]

What are your plans for Ashnard without ResolveWrath Ike?

[Narga_Rocks]

Ena with a bunch of skills. Nasir is obviously impossible since you can't beat BK. Just thinking, the last map will take a while to get slow Ena all the way to Ashnard.

[PKL]

Ena with a bunch of skills. Nasir is obviously impossible since you can't beat BK. Just thinking, the last map will take a while to get slow Ena all the way to Ashnard.

Can Ena even withstand Berserker Ashnard? I guess theres Giffca...but still...

[Narga_Rocks]

Can Ena even withstand Berserker Ashnard? I guess theres Giffca...but still...

Exactly. She doesn't even need to live through the next phase. You get one of Giffca/Tibarn/Naesala at that point. Everyone on your side can die except Ike and the royal and you win. Still gonna take a while.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[Espinosa]

This should be interesting...

Are you doing this on hard mode? It looks like it based on the enemy density in chapter 4 and the lower exp yield, but I just wanted to make sure.

Good luck to you!

Thanks! Yep, Hard Mode! And I'll also be recruiting everybody.

Question: If you level up someone using BEXP, he/she will gain stats?

Not after I hacked the growths out =) Promotions still give the same upgrades as usual, so I have quite a few options of who should get BEXP/Master Seals.

What are your plans for Ashnard without ResolveWrath Ike?

Ena is the only one capable of doing anything to the first form of Ashnard on this run. The Berserk form has 60 atk, and transformed Ena at base has 52 HP, 27 defence. So if we are worried about Ashnard's numbers vs Ena's numbers, everything's fine there. Damaging Ashnard is a problem though, but I'll be hoarding both of the Energy Ring, a Speedwings and Adept, Wrath, Resolve scrolls. Maybe only one of Adept/Wrath, we'll see. I have already "wasted" the first Speedwings on Titania.

Ena with a bunch of skills. Nasir is obviously impossible since you can't beat BK. Just thinking, the last map will take a while to get slow Ena all the way to Ashnard.

Ena isn't very heavy and should be carriable and shovable with ease (there's also Rescue and Hammerne staves jic). I do agree that logistics in the final map may prove troublesome but I don't want to overthink it until I'm there, while still avoiding decisions that may screw me up longterm. Trying to make the most of each chapter in terms of turns while planning ahead.

[Florete]

Are you planning to keep a dondon-style ruleset including recruiting everyone and not letting anyone die? I see you've already successfully spoken to Marcia, so that much looks possible as of now. Actually, your above post has already answered the recruitment question, so all I'm really asking is about people dying.

I'll try to keep up with this, but those map animations are a real pain to have to constantly watch. By halfway through Ch 4 I just stopped because I could already see how it would end and didn't want to watch 12 more enemies be killed.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Espinosa]

Yeah, I wish I could turn the animations off =( That's one reason why I speed those videos up (~30%). I think Titania solos start to look more interesting when she begins to face significant risk of death (especially in chapter 7). Should get to uploading the next ones soon enough. I also try to put all the appropriate information in the video description, but this time I had to be brief because I needed to outline the rules for the whole run as well as talk about the first five maps (not much space for that).

I'll try to keep everyone alive, and if people are dying, I'll modify the strategy to ensure their survival; however, I can expect plenty of future strategies bringing certain characters chances of death (Ike can die on turn 1 enemy phase in chapter 1 if you're unlucky, no joke) so this is not a 100% reliability run, even though since the RNG isn't fixed like in the GBA games, I'm clearly interested in developing reliable strategies for the sake of my own sanity.

[ZemZem]

Definitely watching this topic. I wish you luck on this.

Also, Resolve/Wrath on Ena should take care of Ashnard in both his forms, so I don't think you'll need to worry. Chapter 17-3 would be a bitch, though, I can imagine.

[XeKr]

Definitely watching this topic. I wish you luck on this.

Also, Resolve/Wrath on Ena should take care of Ashnard in both his forms, so I don't think you'll need to worry. Chapter 17-3 would be a bitch, though, I can imagine.

Titania/Kieran/Devdan with Ward should easily manage I think. Also Stefan/Maurim should heavily outstat the enemies in HM.

15 will be interesting without trained mage/flier. 17-4 might be very tricky, especially for LTC, without a trained flier. I suppose you could always trigger Tibarn and let him solo. The lategame chapters will also probably be pretty hard, the bosses are quite a challenge to kill with their stats. See Ena (Forged thunder crit? 52/25/25 defenses with Renewal + Seize tile healing is op. I suppose some combination of Laguz Lance/Slayer Tanith/Stefan), Petrine (ridiculous 23 AS), Bertram (22 AS with Runesword). Maybe need 27 AS Stefan to kill them at a reasonable speed. Or drop Wrath onto a non-Ena unit.

I'm very interested in how this run will turn out.

Edited January 31, 2013 by XeKr

[Espinosa]

Chapter 5 in 6 turns (d'oh)

It's important that we take away Gatrie's Steel Lance and have Titania eat the first Speedwings, cutting one turn during the next chapter.

I've also been thinking how to distribute the next two Speedwings I have. If I didn't math fail (if I'm not wrong and Resolve boosts stats after the Laguz transformation bonuses added up), Ena needs two Speedwings to double both forms of Ashnard. However, we have like 15 chapters until then (when we get our second Speedwings), and some of the things we do with it (as mentioned, Stefan can take it and double Bertram and Petrine) could potentially save us turns as well.

I really can't be sure until I do said chapters with those restrictions though, because bosskilling is a lot about context and not just raw numbers. Will other units be there to chip in, hit and Canto away, etc.? There are siege tomes, Brave weapons, all sorts of things that could assist bosskilling in different situations. I guess if Stefan takes the second Speedwings right away his avoid will appreciate the investment too but his speed is already pretty overkill.

Another interesting resource is Boots. I'm thinking Tanith would make the best out of it, but it exists for 5 maps longer. Still, Tanith is the best mounted unit for a while and shortly following the point we get Boots.

[Doga]

Titania's map animation with the Javelin is great.

[Chiki]

I'm impressed with the turn counts. Keep it up.

[Hawk King]

Can units gain stats with use of the bands and knight ward?

Obviously you can just choose to not use the bands, but youre going to want to use the knight ward.

You sold the ashera icon? Stefan and his 5 Luck would have liked that...

Edited February 2, 2013 by Hawk King

[Lord Raven]

Respect btw, this thing could be hard.

Stefan needs more durability, not luck. He'll be taking many hits, but he will have support later on anyway.

[XeKr]

Just briefly glancing at numbers, low Str really limits the damage of Brave weapons. Like Tanith is 4x2 against Bertram. Forged Silver is usually better. Yet Bertram heals 19 with Runesword against Tanith.

You're looking at like 4 or more rounding the later bosses if no one is doubling them. I suggested Stefan because he gets a crit boost and Astra. For example he'll do 14x2 with 33 crit against Bertram if you invest those resources. It depends a lot on what you consider a reliable strat for the later boss kills.

Tanith probably needs the durability items the most. Dat 32 base Hp.

It might actually be worth giving boots to Reyson? I don't know if 0% growth Tanith can solo-ferry as in typical LTC play. Reyson can bring up 4 of Tanith/Geoffery/Stefan/Calill/Largo all at once.

[bottlegnomes]

I have a feeling Haar will be pretty useful when he finally shows up, same with Geof. Haar might also not be a bad investment of a speedwing. IIRC, he needs like 2 speed to double pretty much every enemy in the game. Granted, bosses are going to be the hardest part, and he still won't help much there. It'll keep him from getting doubled, but he won't ever be doubling any of the more difficult bosses.

[Narga_Rocks]

Stefan needs more durability, not luck. He'll be taking many hits, but he will have support later on anyway.

In a way he needs both, though durability is to make certain strategies possible. Luck is to make him less likely to be criticalled by anything under the sun and thus makes those strategies need fewer resets.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[Espinosa]

Yeah, in my last video description I mentioned Stefan complaining about my selling the first Ashera Icon. I guess with 7 luck he's still susceptible to crits endgame, but the 2% make a sufficient difference in terms of resets and whatnot, so reliability is compromised. I figured I'll be forging a lot more on this run because everything literally needs a forge to continue functioning. For example, Titania won't ORKO the Door Key Soldiers in chapter 10 without an Iron Axe forge. And I might end up making expensive forges later, like a max MT Fire forge for easier 'killing' of Muarim. It's hard to run out of money with the 20K you get before chapter 10 and the occasional gem sold afterwards, but so far I have evidence that I will come dangerously close to that as everyone's begging for an up-to-date forge. There's also stuff like Secret Books and Statue Frags. I think I'll sell the latter too, because Mordecai smiting, like, Jill (I think that's it?) probably won't cut any turns. Another application is letting Lethe shoving Paladins besides Titania. I'm not really in a rush to sell it right now, though.

Can units gain stats with use of the bands and knight ward?

Obviously you can just choose to not use the bands, but youre going to want to use the knight ward.

I have no access to bands because my old Dolphin saves went corrupt, and Vincent helped me with editing out Knight Ward's growths away, so I can freely equip it on any Paladin, General or Halberdier I please. Very useful indeed, especially when you're facing multiple enemies at once.

Just briefly glancing at numbers, low Str really limits the damage of Brave weapons. Like Tanith is 4x2 against Bertram. Forged Silver is usually better. Yet Bertram heals 19 with Runesword against Tanith.

You're looking at like 4 or more rounding the later bosses if no one is doubling them. I suggested Stefan because he gets a crit boost and Astra. For example he'll do 14x2 with 33 crit against Bertram if you invest those resources. It depends a lot on what you consider a reliable strat for the later boss kills.

Tanith probably needs the durability items the most. Dat 32 base Hp.

It might actually be worth giving boots to Reyson? I don't know if 0% growth Tanith can solo-ferry as in typical LTC play. Reyson can bring up 4 of Tanith/Geoffery/Stefan/Calill/Largo all at once.

Yeah, Tanith is probably not the best bosskiller with her low strength, though she could ferry a bosskiller thanks to her high move.

The highest endgame strength in the party belongs to, surprisingly, Tauroneo who has the weapon ranks for Brave weapons and actually isn't tough to transport with the game's weight system. Natural Resolve and high physical durability make him even more appealing.

I think the general consensus is that the Boots going to the dancer is detrimental to growths, but the dancer here is capable of refreshing up to four units at once and could even Canto somewhere with the Knight Ring. Boots going to the best mounted units probably has more to do with their capacity to singlehandedly solo a group of enemies and bosskill, which cannot be said about any of (post-earlygame) Titania, Kieran, Jill, Tanith, Geoff or Haar. It might seem like with good Shove/Smite support Reyson's extended movement could help get several units refreshed and ready to attack the boss.

Or they could go to Ike, but all he needs to seize is a drop and a refresh, so that's a bad idea. Plenty of escape, rout, defence and bosskill maps where he needn't even stand on the ground. Or something gimmicky, Stefan with Boots and Knight Ring. He won't need transportation to push forward that way. Nah...

I have a feeling Haar will be pretty useful when he finally shows up, same with Geof. Haar might also not be a bad investment of a speedwing. IIRC, he needs like 2 speed to double pretty much every enemy in the game. Granted, bosses are going to be the hardest part, and he still won't help much there. It'll keep him from getting doubled, but he won't ever be doubling any of the more difficult bosses.

It's a good question if saving headache with scrubs is worth posing greater difficulty with bosses. I gave Titania the first Speedwings which definitely saves a turn in chapter 6, but after that I don't think it makes any difference, though she'll occasionally double a Myrm (before they get real fast) and that pleases me greatly. I also suspect I would've reset more times to 5-turn chapter 7 without the 4 avo the Speedwings gave her. I expected the investment would've also saved a turn by enabling her to double weighed down Kotaff (CH9) but in a 7-turn completion she has all the time in the world to chip away at him until Marcia brings Ike to seize after recruiting herself.

[ClLoulD]

Honestly I am glad you mentioned Tauroneo and I think he is the best investment of the boots although you may have to wait a bit longer than you would of liked, just having him keep up with the majority of the party is going to be a major boost I would of thought. Tauroneo with his high base stats and resolve seems to me that he's going to be the only person capable of actually killing anything late-game albeit Ena without relying on a lucky dodge the next turn.

[Espinosa]

Tauroneo bosskilling looks good on paper. The only boss he's not doubled by in Resolve form is Petrine (and there's also Gromell actvating his own Resolve who should also prove to be highly challenging but his entire map is pretty hellish for 0% growths LTC) and Barrier/Pure Water reduces the damage he receives from her. 33 strength in Resolve mode is godly, and he gets Petrine to KO range if he doesn't whiff either of Brave Sword attacks on her. He's even more accurate at reliable bosskilling than Stefan when Resolve kicks in (tying in skill and winning in luck by quite a bit).

The one problem is getting into Resolve range when a lot of enemies have trouble dealing damage to him at base. With Boots it's easier for him to walk around and engage enemies that actually hurt him to get in there more quickly. I remember dondon giving Boots to Douglas and then regretting it; however, Geoffrey isn't Percival and Tanith isn't Miledy so carrying along foot units with superior combat parameters is a must.

Maps like chapter 24 still point to giving Boots to a flier, though, but if we're taking 3 turns to recruit Lucia/Bastian (which we are), we should arrive on turn 3 without any Boots I bet (unless Geoffrey and his guys clog up the arrive square).

[ZemZem]

Don't forget about Largo. His bases are pretty solid, and he can double most enemies just fine at base. The problem lies with his defenses, but he'll be pretty useful, still.