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Would you rather get raped or be killed?


Junkhead
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Did this thread seriously...

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Well since it's going to be that way, I'd prefer rape over death. The reason why? Dignity and pride are things I don't treasure much after life events and people that have hurt me before for the sake of keeping their 'reputation' intact and such, and I value being alive despite a tragic incident because of my emotional attachment with relatives and close friends, and also due to my goals for the future which I hold onto strongly. Rape can be a very tragic event , but I find things like 'dignity', 'honor', and 'pride' far too feeble, pointless, and momentary to ever weigh more than what I hold dear in my life.

I think there was a considerable amount of strawmanning from both sides.

Soul's opinion of "death>rape" wasn't the big pusher of the argument. It was when he started saying people had no dignity for preferring Rape>Death in this hypothetical scenario, it could be taken in the way that he meant rape victims had no dignity which isn't exactly what he said, sure. It's still incorrect to people that take pride and have honor in what they do/are but still would prefer rape over death. Can't they feel they can regain their dignity later if they overcome this event? Can't they think that dignity is good for them now but they would rather not blindly keep it if they can still continue living their life the way they chose, even after a morally crushing incident?

I don't think preferring death over rape is a wrong answer, but I do think blaming the other side of the spectrum out that they only chose that opinion because they lack 'dignity' is as close to a wrong, fallacious conclusion as it gets.

I never made the claim that it wasn't over the top in some way but Soul wasn't strawmanning, maybe a bad argument but certainly not strawmanning. I never sided with Soul either, it's up to the individual and hence why it was a question.

Honestly, I still fight with that. I wish the post where I "came out" as a victim was still around, but basically, it took me fifteen years to even admit it to *my mother*.

Until you understand what you go through in that situation - the shame, the depression, the flippant things people say about being raped, hell, reading half the stupid shit I've read in this very thread - you can't speak to it. You just can't. It's been 21 years since I went through that, and I would die before I had to do it again. Add to it other stigmatizing factors - like being a male victim, regardless of what age I was when it happened - and you can understand that I was *fucked up* for a very long time. Hell, I still am.

Simply put, none of you motherfuckers has the first clue of what you're talking about. Not. One.

I really like this post in the sense that it provides perspective, I think people are oversimplifying rape and view it as more mechanical than any of the other factors which is why they imagine the choice is easy. It's because I have no idea of how it would be like that I choose to remain neutral given the options.

Rape over death. Dignity and Pride are not things that can be taken away through one mere, horrific, act but rather lost when the person lets it get to them. In my mind, no matter how bad the rape, the person who survives it has infinitely more dignity and pride than the monster who preformed the act. As for Death, death is not something to be feared in the slightest, but it is the end to everything I can do in the world. I'd much rather get raped and be able to continue on living than to die, especially if said death is a meaningless death. If I'm going to die I want it to matter, or at least be somewhat awesome like slam-choking a lion into the ground (How would you feel if you had to tell people in the afterlife 'yea, well... Ummm... I got bored of life so I shot myself' as opposed to 'I died fistfighting a lion and I was WINNING until he called his pride in for help!').

I think you're oversimplifying it to something that with a touch of therapy and a sprinkle encouragement can make all better, but it likely isn't.

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Honestly, I still fight with that. I wish the post where I "came out" as a victim was still around, but basically, it took me fifteen years to even admit it to *my mother*.

Until you understand what you go through in that situation - the shame, the depression, the flippant things people say about being raped, hell, reading half the stupid shit I've read in this very thread - you can't speak to it. You just can't. It's been 21 years since I went through that, and I would die before I had to do it again. Add to it other stigmatizing factors - like being a male victim, regardless of what age I was when it happened - and you can understand that I was *fucked up* for a very long time. Hell, I still am.

Simply put, none of you motherfuckers has the first clue of what you're talking about. Not. One.

This is basically the reason why this thread shouldn't have been created in the first place. No one in this thread can say whether rather be killed than raped (or viceversa) because we haven't been there in the first place. Even if its just a hypothetical question.

Edited by Midnight Nightmare
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This is basically the reason why this thread shouldn't have been created in the first place. No one in this thread can say whether rather be killed than raped because we haven't been there in the first place. Even if its just a hypothetical question.

Maybe the question isn't the best but the discussion it brings is interesting.

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Rape over death. Dignity and Pride are not things that can be taken away through one mere, horrific, act but rather lost when the person lets it get to them

I'll be sure to remember how I should feel regarding something I've been fighting since before you were born. Thanks for clarifying how easy it is to just keep one's sense of dignity and pride.

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Awww, now I feel like I've said something really mean... =<

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, I don't really think that much before I do or say anything... I feel so inconsiderate >~<

Sure I may think now that I wouldn't take it as badly as others, but you're right, I can't truly say that unless I've actually been through the experience personally.

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And the thread took a rapid turn for the inevitable.

Superbus, my sincerest apologies if you felt I was at all taking your situation lightly. At any rate, your outrage at this entire thread highlights why rape should never be treated like a spin-the-bottle question, and only illustrates further why this thread should've just been put into the shredder.

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The main problem with this thread is that (aside from its existence) we have been given a choice. In the act of rape, there is no choice. It is an insensitive topic. I'm sorry if any of my posts here have caused you any anguish, Superbus. I've tried to remain considerate throughout. I commend you for speaking up.

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OBVIOUS TRIGGER WARNINGS COMING

Here's the thing: no one here has made me angry, or caused me anguish. That's long done, and in the past. I was 11 when I was raped by a neighbour, in 1992, and since then, he's died. He was homeless, and if he was described to me correctly, was a broken man.

But I'm not angry, because if anything, the whole thing that this thread proves is that no one truly grasps what it's like to be raped, to be a rape victim. That's understandable, because in all honesty, it's not something that one can understand until they go through it; no simulator can emulate the true loss of power and - yes - dignity that comes with it. Thankfully, I'm home for the rest of the weekend - thanks, Nemo! - so I can try to put into words something that it truly indescribable, which took me fifteen years to admit, and another four to be able to talk about publicly, in the hopes that it would help someone (it did).

When it happened to me, I didn't even truly understand what I'd gone through; all I knew was that I was in tremendous pain, I was bleeding, and that I couldn't tell anyone. Hey, he was an adult, and he said if I told, the police would take me away from my mother, so he had to have been right. Call me naive, because Lord knows I have, again and again and again. But the main meme that is put out to society is that a man who loses to, or lets another man take something from him is weak. And when I was growing up, a man who lets another man have sex with him is weak. He's a "faggot". Hey, I was only 11, but that didn't matter in my head; I was just... a faggot. A faggot who didn't fight hard enough, a faggot who was weak, and broken, and probably wanted it to happen. It's really easy to say that people can't "let" their dignity be taken, but when you're raped, it's the ultimate surrender. That piece of shit took my virginity, took my innocence, took away numerous things, feelings, anything you can name, and I couldn't do anything about it. The one thing you expect to have control of in your life is your body, and when you're raped, you have lost control of your entire body. It raises doubts in your mind. Can someone else just come along and take it? Why did it happen in the first place? Why didn't you fight back? How can you retain control of your body when you lost it so totally in the first place?

As I got older, and proverbial locker room talk became more and more descriptive, people would flippantly talk about rape as if it was jaywalking, or robbery. An armed robbery of your money, your possessions, etc., that's daunting, but you can recover physical possessions. How can you recover control of your body? I tried. I basically screwed anything female that couldn't get away fast enough throughout my early 20s; basically, I was trying to literally fuck the "faggot" out of me, and prove I was a real man. How stupidly naive I was.

When people say that you can't "let" someone take your dignity, even after being raped, they don't get the fear of even telling someone, and what they'll think about you. They have never had to be there with a woman while they reported being raped, and then were asked what she was wearing, who she was with, how much she had to drink. She, she, she. They haven't had side-eyes glances when they've seen a man talk about being raped, and the questions as to what was wrong with him, what he did to cause it, and how weak he was. He, he, he. For both genders, we joke about being raped in prison, and all the jokes that come with that - soap on a rope, the whole nine - until you realize that if you get raped in prison - which, thankfully, I have never experienced - there is literally no escape. That is your life, every day, for the rest of your time there, and the guards won't do shit to help you. Someone will want to violently take your body, you will resist, and you will lose, every day of your life. Remember that next time you want a white collar criminal or petty thief to get a stiff jail sentence so you can have some pathetic semblance of vengeance.

When we talk about "rape culture", the paragraph above is exactly what is being talked about. We have a culture of blaming the victim, instead of blaming the person doing the raping. That culture is pervasive, everywhere we look, without us even realizing it. How can I be angry at a few people much younger than I am for not getting it, when people old enough to be *my* parents don't? Just know that I've thought about suicide virtually every day of my life from the shame of what happened to me 21 years ago, and my family, friends and the opportunity to get others through this is what's kept me alive.

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So me and my friends were talking normally, and I don't exactly recall how this was brought up, but my friend asked me if I would rather get raped or be killed. I said I'd rather be killed, and then they were startled. I thought it was normal to prefer death over something like that.

Do I have control over it? If the guys asking me that question trust me this much, I'd probably pull some shitty Bruce Willis action and more likely get shot for it before I can turn... But it's better than nothing.

The way I see it is, no matter how bad it gets, no matter how terrible waking up every day and trying to live is, as long as you're alive, it can get better. Not that it necessarily will, but if you die, there's no chance you'll ever be happy. It's just over. So, I would rather be raped than be killed. I would rather have pretty much anything happen to me, if it meant I could continue to live, and just possibly keep journeying toward happiness.

To me (at least), living a miserable life with no purpose or meaning is worse than being dead. I'd rather stop feeling an uncontrollable and overbearing pain by dying than keep on living miserably for the rest of my days.

Edited by Rapier
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To me (at least), living a miserable life with no purpose or meaning is worse than being dead. I'd rather stop feeling an uncontrollable and overbearing pain by dying than keep on living miserably for the rest of my days.

Hence why Suicide exists as an immediate solution.

Self-injury and self-blame of intensifying brutality is also an option. Misery is overcome once the person's in the coffin; cause again like I mentioned... Not even a single problem could follow a person to the grave.

Of course, one fulfills pleasure once they hurt themselves further to trigger that magnificent suicide act! The perfect deathwish...

Edited by Irredeemable Failure
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Thank you Superbus for sharing your story. I just feel sorry that you had to go through that horrible experience at such young age. Keep on living, find those millions reasons to live because its up to you to move on with your life. I am sure that you aren't alone on this.

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NOTE: Words on a screen have no vocal tone. What might be a thought-provoking question in-person may come off as extremely insensitive on a forum. If you're gonna ask something potentially touchy, think it through, post your intent, and word it carefully. This is not the place to traumatize people. That is all.

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Soul for Crash 2013

I'd prefer rape. I feel like simply accepting the rape as it occurs would make the whole ordeal less... horrifying.

Edited by Aere
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You know, I am aware that this might be a little late to come off and say it, but to be fair, Crash actually bugged me on Skype to explain myself, my point of view on this matter, and he bugged me so so much, that I'll actually come out and explain it:

[12:10:12 p.m.] Me: Yeah, I am. Then I'll say it.

[12:11:23 p.m.] Me: The reason I would prefer to die rather than get raped is because I have a sense of pride that won't allow me to go through that kind of humilliation, reguardless of wether it could "get better" or not, if it's done, it's done. To me, rape is arguably the worst human crime, even worse than death.

[12:11:31 p.m.] Me: I apologize for the misunderstandings.

And that's what it is. Take note I've never intended to offend users here to think I am some insensitive douche that meant to say rape victims are pathetic, as this was all just a hypothetical questioning digging in into the sense of value one has for each other.

Also take note that while I do leave this here, I do not leave it open for debate, as it is only a personal point of view, reguardless of how "ilogical" or inconvinient it may be.

Thanks Crash.

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...I would fight. Unless they had a gun, in which case I would probably try to catch them off guard unless there was more than one individual with a gun. I just can't imagine letting something like that happen to me unless I was absolutely sure the only other option was certain death.

Obviously I can't comment on a subject like this especially after a certain post I read. But knowing where I come from and my own beliefs, death is not an option for me. So I would choose rape, it's horrible, but you keep living and have a chance to eventually make things better. Death is the end, and for some people as far as I know, that's not necessarily a good thing. But I'll stop before this turns into a religion topic, I hate those.

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...I would fight. Unless they had a gun, in which case I would probably try to catch them off guard unless there was more than one individual with a gun. I just can't imagine letting something like that happen to me unless I was absolutely sure the only other option was certain death.

If fighting was an option, I would've put it there. See how I didn't? Of course I would fight, or alot of here would. Better to try and fight it off and die in the attempt rather than just die. I mean, you've got to die for something, and that's obviously implying you were fighting off.

/thread

?

EDIT-If not I have a lot to say, and probably not many (relatively speaking) words to say it with or reason to say it.

Go ahead.

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Go ahead.

Crap.

Alright.

Hmm. I may have established some worth of hypotheticals in my mind along these lines that actually lets me respond alright.

I won't know till such a danger appears to arise. I doubt it ever will.

you've got to die for something

Hmm. That's one thing I don't really buy. I think people can put their lives on the line for something and succeed. Some people, anyway. But I dunno about planning it.

May not be very nice to everybody, nobody, or somebody, likely blabber:

The thing I think has been missing from some of the discussion regarding "dignity" is the extremity which rape would presumably put the victim in. It's as simple as, "can you figure out the reality you're faced with during an attack, and how to get out of it?" I don't think there's a whole lot of dignity to be lost in not being prepared to stop an attack, defend yourself, get out of the situation, or in some other way deal with the sudden, quite serious threat you're being presented with. But there's license to do practically anything to someone who doesn't respect your personal space, your body, your safety, and the like...there's danger in striking back, and the danger in not striking back. And there's instinct.

In the long-term, I admit that a victim who clings to hatred of their abuser doesn't seem "dignified" to me, but I think that's primarily because of the lack of "dignity" of the "vengeful masses" (i.e. people who trumpet hypothetical cruelties that I myself might otherwise), and I think an abuser can improve, but I still think the victim may have the most important eye into the result of the act. Well, alright, I've spent enough time pointlessly editing.

Edited by Mouse
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