The Lunatic Club

[Knusperkeks]

Speaking from experience, [...] Robin will probably be your most reliable tank at that point by far, and she gets thoroughly wrecked by the Bow Knights and Beast Killer users (if they hit / have Hawkeye).

Speaking from experience, Robin doesn't care about Bow Knights and Beast Killers if you properly funnel exp into her.

[Bovinian]

Speaking from experience, Robin doesn't care about Bow Knights and Beast Killers if you properly funnel exp into her.

She can take them just fine one on one, but when a bunch of them are rushing her in a single enemy phase (and the bastards tend to wait until after you've taken enough damage to be KOed by one) while you're turtling, you need to pray to Anna that they miss in order to survive. Granted they have like 50-60% hit rates without Hawkeye iirc , but there are enough of them all around the map that it gets annoying.

They're a lot easier to deal with if you aren't turtling, but I personally haven't ever been able to beat that map on L+ without resorting to it.

Oh and this is Dark Flier Robin at close to level 15 in Chapter 12, so I don't think lack of exp would be the issue in the first place.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Bovinian

[Knusperkeks]

Oh and this is Dark Flier Robin at close to level 15 in Chapter 12, so I don't think lack of exp would be the issue in the first place.

I think so too. Situations like the one quoted below only take place if one fails as a tactician:

She can take them just fine one on one, but when a bunch of them are rushing her in a single enemy phase (and the bastards tend to wait until after you've taken enough damage to be KOed by one) while you're turtling, you need to pray to Anna that they miss in order to survive.

I'll rephrase my statement: Speaking from experience, Robin doesn't care about Bow Knights and Beast Killers if you properly funnel exp into her and don't let her get caught by the enemy.

[Bovinian]

I think so too. Situations like the one quoted below only take place if one fails as a tactician:

I'll rephrase my statement: Speaking from experience, Robin doesn't care about Bow Knights and Beast Killers if you properly funnel exp into her and don't let her get caught by the enemy.

I specified that I was using her to turtle/tank, that she wouldn't be having these problems if I was using a different strategy, and that I couldn't think of a better way to handle that specific chapter, but whatever dude. If you could tell me of a better way to approach it on L+ with a Dark Flier (there probably is), I'd be glad to hear it.

[Knusperkeks]

I specified that I was using her to turtle/tank, that she wouldn't be having these problems if I was using a different strategy, and that I couldn't think of a better way to handle that specific chapter, but whatever dude. If you could tell me of a better way to approach it on L+ with a Dark Flier (there probably is), I'd be glad to hear it.

There is a big basin in between the two mountain formations to the east and west. Use the ability to move 8 tiles and fly to jump left and right, evading lethal encounters.

[Bovinian]

Not sure what you're talking about, there are no mountain formations in Chapter 12, and you start out surrounded by enemies so there isn't really anywhere to escape

[Knusperkeks]

I'm referencing DF15 in ch13. The same stratagem can be applied to ch12 in that you fly to the north-eastern water tiles instead of mountains.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

My Resetless route does this without Anna Master Seals (but does utilize the Renown Second Seal). A +Spd 19 Tact/20 Dark Mage/15 Sorc/~13 Dark Flier should be at about 100 base Avoid. Lord Chrom providing S support boosts should push that up into the 120 range. Bow Knight and Paladin hit is closer to 140-ish. Knights and Cavaliers will have about 115. This means non-Hawkeye enemies pretty much shouldn't ever hit. There's only 3 Beastkillers and 2 bows on the map, so that chances of all of them having Hawkeye are pretty low. Even then, they'll do ~20 damage without Luna+, so they're only really scary with both Hawkeye and Luna+, which is has pretty low odds of generating, especially on specific units.

And to add to what Knus said, the water safe spot can be easily reached by careful turn 1 and 2 positioning south of the eastern wall (see my video for specifics).

[Ownagepuffs]

Nah, it's pretty easy actually.

On Robin at least.

Cordy and Sumia have an easy time with it as well. Just requires some very specific exp funneling.

[Bovinian]

My Resetless route does this without Anna Master Seals (but does utilize the Renown Second Seal). A +Spd 19 Tact/20 Dark Mage/15 Sorc/~13 Dark Flier should be at about 100 base Avoid. Lord Chrom providing S support boosts should push that up into the 120 range. Bow Knight and Paladin hit is closer to 140-ish. Knights and Cavaliers will have about 115. This means non-Hawkeye enemies pretty much shouldn't ever hit. There's only 3 Beastkillers and 2 bows on the map, so that chances of all of them having Hawkeye are pretty low. Even then, they'll do ~20 damage without Luna+, so they're only really scary with both Hawkeye and Luna+, which is has pretty low odds of generating, especially on specific units.

And to add to what Knus said, the water safe spot can be easily reached by careful turn 1 and 2 positioning south of the eastern wall (see my video for specifics).

I guess that explains it. I get to Dark Flier from 15 Grandmaster, while distributing exp to about 3-4 other units at the same time, so I guess it is an issue of Robin not having gained enough levels after all. She didn't reach 100 avoid for me and took more than 20 damage so I guess the enemies were more threatening than they should have been.

Would it still be possible to reach those water tiles even with lower stats? I just assumed it wouldn't be possible but if it is, then yeah that'd be a much more reliable strategy.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, there's still some leeway for Avoid there too. My route makes it so half of them can't hit, period, while the promoted enemies have a really poor hit rate. It should be possible to get away with about 15 less Avoid (25ish, if you're feeling gutsy). They just have to miss enough to not be able to reliably dogpile her. Of course, getting to the safe area makes this almost a non-issue (just have to be careful to not engage both Bow Knights on the same EP if your Def is really bad, since there's tiles in the water where you can force the 2-range enemies to engage by themselves).

And yeah, it's possible to reach the water with lower stats. Robin needs to be able to survive a bit of abuse (in order to either draw enemies away from the wall or kill the few on the south side of it), but any flier with 8 Move should be able to get there (my Resetless route actually has a barely-trained Falco!Cordelia with Cherche riding shotgun get up to that safe spot from the wall spot (take a look on the far east side of it—there's a gap where a flier can slip past while its initial positioning isn't close enough to aggro the Bow Knight). Of course, multiple pairs makes this a bit more complicated, but in that same route, Robin takes a bit of a detour that still gets her over the water. It involves going 2 tiles below the Beastkiller Knight (kill him off), then tucking into the west corner of the middle supply piles (unequip and heal), then north into water. A limited amount of enemies will still be in range to attack, including a Bow Knight on turn 3, so don't slack on the healing. However, that should still have way better odds of success than trying to fight on their terms.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Speaking from experience, if you're aiming to get Galeforce on F!Robin before Chapter 13, I would try to get her out of Dark Flier before Chapter 12 if at all possible. Because of the zerg rush nature of that map, turtling is usually the best way to get through it. Robin will probably be your most reliable tank at that point by far, and she gets thoroughly wrecked by the Bow Knights and Beast Killer users (if they hit / have Hawkeye).

I'm assuming you're talking about no grind, since getting Galeforce wouldn't be an issue otherwise. It's actually possible for Dark Flier!Robin to Risen grind solo Risen skirmishes with a pairup partner on maps that have cliffs (Ch. 5, 7, 10) by kiting 1-rangelocked enemies and sniping them at 2 range from a cliff tile, similar to the Prologue water trick. If you're willing to do that.

If you're worried about getting zerged, don't turtle. The boss is right there and a really easy snipe for a flying GF user.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Bovinian]

If you're worried about getting zerged, don't turtle. The boss is right there and a really easy snipe for a flying GF user.

That sounds like Chapter 13. I was talking about Chapter 12, but I didn't know about the alternative strategy that the posters above mentioned. I'm no longer in Dark Flier by Chapter 13 anyway and I don't remember 13 being a particularly difficult chapter; pretty sure I never had to turtle there.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

It's worth noting that Dark Fliers (or any sufficiently strong flying unit, I guess) can troll C12-16 pretty hard. For all except C13, they can get into spots where only a very small fraction of the enemy can reach them and in the case of C13, they can just make the enemy run up and down 20-some-tile-long cliffs, looking like total idiots. Not that they look much better in the other chapters where, after their ranged is dead, they sit around with their thumbs up their butts.

[ultmatelifeform]

It's worth noting that Dark Fliers (or any sufficiently strong flying unit, I guess) can troll C12-16 pretty hard. For all except C13, they can get into spots where only a very small fraction of the enemy can reach them and in the case of C13, they can just make the enemy run up and down 20-some-tile-long cliffs, looking like total idiots. Not that they look much better in the other chapters where, after their ranged is dead, they sit around with their thumbs up their butts.

You can also one-turn a lot of chapters if you have more than one dark flyer. It might not be a great idea to do so though because the experience loss but is is less time on lunatic +. I would advise haveing it at least for chapter 25.

Edited May 25, 2015 by ultmatelifeform

[Ownagepuffs]

Did Laurent's paralogue. This has to the most well designed desert chapter in the history of the series. It was legitimately fun. There was enough non sand terrain to make me not want to put a bullet through my head and enough anti fliers to make the map challenging. The incentive of collecting villages vs fighting more enemies is absolutely brilliant, and even though there was only one "hidden treasure", it was rewarding as hell to find. Like a scavenger hunt! Laurent's bases are not quite as beastly as Lucina's, but they're workable. Stahl capped speed in this chapter and Cordy capped Strength. Lucy and Laurent each gained like 6 levels. Laurent takes the speedwings from the village.

Stahl's a Pally and Clint's a Hero. Time to check out Morgan's relevant bases.

Cavalier

Lv: 10

HP: 41

Str: 22 (!!)

Skl: 17

Spd: 21 (!!)

Def: 19

Sword: C

Lance: C

...... Dear Naga. Is this even legal? It can't be. This is ridiculous.

Gonna try and do Cynthia's first so she can get a head start in Morgan's paralogue.

[Missile]

Hi, is there anywhere some kind of list of any viable characters in Lunatic mode ? I already beat this mode twice but I wonder if there are some characters that do surprisingly well in this mode ?

[Knusperkeks]

Hi, is there anywhere some kind of list of any viable characters in Lunatic mode ? I already beat this mode twice but I wonder if there are some characters that do surprisingly well in this mode ?

I do not think such a list exists.

All you can do is look at the base stats, availability, growths, reclass options and try. Through conjecture or empirical research it's possible to determine which character is decent or not -- is what I'd like to say but you need an equilibrated mix of units to sortie.

It's also important to establish supremacy (or at least dominance) over the weapon triangle by covering as many weapon types as possible. Cue true hit and weapon triangle mechanics.

Tomes and Bows are used in case it's not secure or safe to use the weapon triangle to one's advantage, or when one finds himself at a disadvantage.

Edit: inserted link.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Ownagepuffs]

Hi, is there anywhere some kind of list of any viable characters in Lunatic mode ? I already beat this mode twice but I wonder if there are some characters that do surprisingly well in this mode ?

FE13 continues the trend FE12 started by giving you a lot of good starting units. The lot of the shepherds save like Virion and Kellam are really good units. You're probably already aware of how good Sumia and Cordelia are, but the cavaliers are also really strong units. Stahl surprised me quite a bit in my current Lunatic run. Miriel is everything an FE mage wants to be.

So yeah, there's a lot of good units in the shepherds.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Avatar, Chrom, Lissa, Miriel, Sumia, Panne, Cordelia, and Nowi all can pull their weight once trained. Good males are much rarer but Fred, Gregor, and sometimes Vaike and Kellam can stay relevant long enough to father someone if you don't care much about the child's bases. All the children except Brady and untrained Olivia's Inigo are good, and you should swap out your lower-performing parents for them.

In general, keeping your team small is more important than the units you use (with exceptions for really bad units like Ricken and Donnel).

[Ownagepuffs]

Hopefully IS continues on this path of having a lot of good units. Even the prepromotes are somewhat competent in the event your core growth units start to falter.

[Knusperkeks]

I can post my opinion on this tier list topic since I already composed such a reply a week ago on a different board.

This topic is by definition subjective, so I won't explain why I think certain characters are where they stand.

I'll try to give as much of an objective opinion as I can.

This opinion is subject to change the moment I learn something more about the intricacies of the characters and thus, the game as a whole. I'm going to ignore children because they take exponentially more effort to rate because of how they come into existence.

This opinion only covers ingame worth as I see it currently:

S - The absolute best units in the game. No other units match their usefulness.

Avatar, Olivia, Chrom

A - Extremely good units. There's few units who surpass their usefulness.

Frederick, Tiki, Miriel, Panne, Cordelia, Gregor, Nowi, Lissa

B - Solid units all around, no real complaints over them.

Henry, Lon'qu, Tharja, Anna, Cherche, Basilio, Flavia

C - Decent. Not all that noteworthy, but not bad.

Sully, Virion, Stahl, Say'ri, Sumia, Maribelle, Kellam, Vaike, Gaius, Libra

D - Poor. Hardly anything special about them. They're pretty outclassed by others.

None.

E - Awful. You probably won't wanna bother with them, they have next to no redeeming traits to them.

Donnel, Ricken

F - Terrible. Don't even consider using them at all, any other units would be better.

None.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Blaze The Great]

Reply 4000!!!

No, just kidding. I'm really here to ask for advice on my first Luna+ run. Two of my pairs will be Chrom-Sumia and Male Avatar-Cordelia. I'm also thinking maybe Miriel-Gregor. Any other thoughts?

[Bovinian]

Reply 4000!!!

No, just kidding. I'm really here to ask for advice on my first Luna+ run. Two of my pairs will be Chrom-Sumia and Male Avatar-Cordelia. I'm also thinking maybe Miriel-Gregor. Any other thoughts?

Are you planning to grind? It might be difficult to train two peg knights on your first Luna+ playthrough when neither of them are the Avatar.

Miriel x Gregor is pretty great.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Reply 4000!!!

Hate to break it to you but you're #4001.

Those three should be good, though think about how you're going to pair the kids up with 4 girls and 1 boy, and be very careful not to neglect anyone early on. Miriel and Sumia both really want training in Cht.3, and the latter has an important level threshold to reach (GF for Lucina) while the former can be an excellent contributor as early as Cht.5 with enough training.