The Lunatic Club

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well, I'd definitely use them for Alexandria and Miriel... The question is whether you want to go with Kuroi strats or Int strats. The former will mean DM, the latter will mean Merc. Either way, wait to reclass until after Cht.4 (and Miriel can probably hold on a bit past Lv.10 as well).

[Alastor15243]

Well, I'd definitely use them for Alexandria and Miriel... The question is whether you want to go with Kuroi strats or Int strats. The former will mean DM, the latter will mean Merc. Either way, wait to reclass until after Cht.4 (and Miriel can probably hold on a bit past Lv.10 as well).

Well Int's strategy relies significantly on me being able to use armsthrift effectively, which, having a luck flaw, I cannot. Plus, I wanna get galeforce. But Kuroi's strategy... well... is there a playlog buried deep within that thread? Because otherwise I don't know how effectively I can follow it.

[ultmatelifeform]

I dont know what Kurois strategy is because I wanted to do as much of this on my own as possible. However do go to get galeforce and. For certain you should promote avatar. Likewise I don't know your other units stats but mirial looks like she could be promoted. Or you could wait for another unit such as chrom to go to Cavalier.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well Int's strategy relies significantly on me being able to use armsthrift effectively, which, having a luck flaw, I cannot. Plus, I wanna get galeforce. But Kuroi's strategy... well... is there a playlog buried deep within that thread? Because otherwise I don't know how effectively I can follow it.

There isn't any written playlog, sorry. I keep meaning to clean up and rewrite my notes into a proper guide (beyond those C4 and P1, anyway), but even during its short lifespan, its received quite a bit of revision (not to mention C5 essentially being in continual flux since I first started routing). My most recent strats are readily available if you watch the run in my highlights, though.

Another thing to keep in mind is that that type of playthrough has a lot of restrictions. I end up doing a lot of costly things to mitigate problem enemies with less-than-optimal gear. So if, for instance, you're allowing yourself Anna shops, Spotpass shops, more than 270 starting Renown and/or the Bonus Box, you won't want to follow my run too closely, since there'll be a lot of stuff either in shops or your armoury that's more cost-efficient. Plus you've already got another seal than my route accounts for (and possibly more), allowing units to class change/promote at more appropriate times.

In any event, I can give a brief rundown of my class route that you can adapt as you see fit. This route is also adapted from my old, initial strats that used to do four gen 1 combat pairs with a gen 2 combat pair (which, depending on my roster, would sometimes become three gen 1 and two gen 2), with a full staff battery filling out the rest of the slots. Oh, and I guess one key thing to keep in mind is that I hold P2-P4 in reserve so I can use it to easily use the EXP to easily push through to Dark Flier. This is largely because of seal timing, so if you can get them sooner, the plan can be even more flexible (a big important change is that DM can promote at 10). Also, Lucina and Morgan can be a bit laxer about hogging up kills with a larger team.

Robin (+Spd/-Skl): Tact 19 -(post-C4)-> DM 20 -(mid-C8)-> Sorc 15 (it's possible to get away with 10) -(mid-P4)-> Dark Flier 20 (Galeforce mid-C12; I've had it as early as C10 in more flexible runs, though) -(mid-C15)-> Hero 15 -(~C19)-> Dark Knight

Chrom: Lord 20 -(mid-C14)-> Cavalier 10 -> Paladin

Cordelia: Peg Knight 10 -(C11 prep)-> Falco (goal is to hit 5 for Rally Speed; staff EXP makes this really easy)

Lucina (passed Veteran): Lord ~15 -(C14 prep)-> Peg Knight 10 -(mid-C14)-> Dark Flier 15 -(~C19-20)-> Paladin

Morgan (passed Galeforce): Tact 10 -(mid-P12)-> Fighter 10 -(mid-C14)-> Hero 15 -(~C17-18)-> Warrior

Edited June 8, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[MelonGx]

Is there any research about "No Renown/Anna/StreetPass/Risen Seals until Ch.8 on Lunatic+ No-Grind"?

With this restriction, MU may reach Tactician Lv.20 on about Ch.5 and stop growing stats for a long time.

This increases the game difficulty a lot.

Edited June 8, 2015 by MelonGx

[Alastor15243]

Alright, considering that making all of my main units use aegis weapons for a while seems like a bad idea, I can see two options:

Route a: Tactician 20 -> Mercenary 10-20 -> Bow Knight 15 -> Dark Flier 15 -> Grandmaster 10 -> ???. This one will get me equipped with bowbreaker, which would be invaluable once I go for galeforce. It would also get me the most stat early stat gains.

Route b: Tactician 20 -> Grandmaster 10 -> Dark Flier 15 -> ??? This one would get me Ignis early on, valuable for improving my damage dealing potential, highly useful for once I start using galeforce tactics, and I would get galeforce much sooner, but this would come at the cost of early stats, and there'd only be 5 levels in which I have galeforce but no Ignis in the former route.

I'm leaning towards the first option, especially since I don't actually have any master seals at the moment. But a few more things:

How exactly is Chrom trained, or is it best for me to just let him gain what little XP he gets from Dual Strikes, breed with him and never put him up front?

Also, do those level paths and times rely on basically soloing with MU? If I want to incorporate Miriel too, how big of a bite into the EXP pie is that going to constitute?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Bovinian]

How exactly is Chrom trained, or is it best for me to just let him gain what little XP he gets from Dual Strikes, breed with him and never put him up front?

Chrom can hold his own reasonably well if paired with Fred, especially since he destroys Wyverns and has good survivability against axe users in general if he camps in forts and forests. As long as you keep him away from women, he only needs a C support to get hitched with F!Robin anyway. I usually second seal him into Archer if I have a spare so he can eventually go BK, but I don't know if that's the best idea. Great Lord or Cav-->Paladin is probably fine too.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Bovinian

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Is there any research about "No Renown/Anna/StreetPass/Risen Seals until Ch.8 on Lunatic+ No-Grind"?

With this restriction, MU may reach Tactician Lv.20 on about Ch.5 and stop growing stats for a long time.

This increases the game difficulty a lot.

I looked into it a bit, which is why I ended up deciding to allow the nominal amount of Renown. This would cause RNG to play more of a factor because a Robin with good rolls would make a significantly better tank. C5 would likely be very brutal, but if the player can get past that, then getting to the seals shouldn't be particularly hard. The stat deficit would be a problem for a bit after that, but if P2 and P3 are saved up, then with a bit of effort, Robin should easily get back ahead of the curve. Until then, I think the excess EXP would likely have to be put into Miriel and Fred. Miriel to make up for the damage deficit and Fred to make up for the tanking deficit by having a slightly more stable secondary tank. Something like Vaike with Lon'qu could see longer use as a tertiary tank (unfortunately, there's not really anyone else who can take Luna+ hits).

Route a: Tactician 20 -> Mercenary 10-20 -> Bow Knight 15 -> Dark Flier 15 -> Grandmaster 10 -> ???. This one will get me equipped with bowbreaker, which would be invaluable once I go for galeforce. It would also get me the most stat early stat gains.

Route b: Tactician 20 -> Grandmaster 10 -> Dark Flier 15 -> ??? This one would get me Ignis early on, valuable for improving my damage dealing potential, highly useful for once I start using galeforce tactics, and I would get galeforce much sooner, but this would come at the cost of early stats, and there'd only be 5 levels in which I have galeforce but no Ignis in the former route.

I'm leaning towards the first option, especially since I don't actually have any master seals at the moment. But a few more things:

I've done path 2 before it's actually really potent. Ignis is typically just enough to one-shot Counter enemies, which lets Robin get away with being more aggressive. Unfortunately, as you've noted, it requires a Master Seal, which Anna isn't too keen on selling.

How exactly is Chrom trained, or is it best for me to just let him gain what little XP he gets from Dual Strikes, breed with him and never put him up front?

Also, do those level paths and times rely on basically soloing with MU? If I want to incorporate Miriel too, how big of a bite into the EXP pie is that going to constitute?

Chrom can typically pick up enough levels through Dual Strikes. The key here is to make sure he sees enough early battle to let him run off with Lon'qu's Killing Edge. This is because you want him to land the killing blow with the Dual Strike whenever possible. Robin will still get the same EXP always does, but for the support character, just hitting and being the one to land the final blow is a difference of 5 vs 10 EXP.

The levels and paths rely on Robin getting the majority of the EXP, but not all of it. The nature of my strats mean that I have to end up giving up a bunch of kills that Robin could take, but are too risky to go for. The end result is that Fred is usually pushing at least level 3, as high as level 4, when I go into C5. Cordelia also grabs enough EXP to go from 7 to 10. Also, I typically don't get event tiles, so there's some potential extra EXP for Robin (or whoever) there. So there's plenty of leeway for Miriel to pick up levels there.

For extra contrast, when I do full deploy runs, (again, I train four gen 1 pairs, including Robin), I can keep the other three relatively up-to-level and it tends to push Robin's gaining of Galeforce to about mid-C13.

[Alastor15243]

So I take it you recommend the second path if that's at all feasible for me?

[Eon]

I'm going to be starting a blind Lunatic playthrough soon. I've played the first few chapters on hard before but that's about it. What are some important things to know (good characters, characters not to use, preferred supports, etc). Also what are the best stats for MU? I was thinking magic as strength just since that's my preferred weapon, but I heard DEF is better. And is there a consensus on what the best thing is to put for the worst stat?

Thanks guys, I just don't want to get my run started with horrible decision making :P

[Czar_Yoshi]

The jump between Hard and Lunatic is a good deal bigger than the jump between Normal and Hard, especially at the beginning. You may want to go through and finish that Hard playthrough first.

In general, Avatar will be the bulk of your army, marrying Chrom if female and either Cordelia or Nowi if male (Chrom then gets Sumia or a dance-spammed Olivia). Miriel and Panne are other capable combat units you could add. Gregor and Stahl are fairly potent husbands with good futures, and Kellam and Fred (and maybe Vaike) have good utility as earlygame supports so they're easy to build support with. You can also take as many Staffbots as you want- Lissa is always a good idea, and Maribelle, Libra, and Anna are good secondary options. They won't keep up by themselves, though, so you will have to go out of your way to heal every speck of damage (and sometimes take extra damage for them to heal) if you ever want them to graduate to combat units.

Fred is a good tank/support who can generally ORKO things with his DSes and can take an enemy phase if needed. Don't be afraid of giving him kills, but also make sure he doesn't take any that aren't needed, as his combat potency drops off whether he's raised or not.

Generally good assets are Spd and Def. Spd is more powerful if you know what you're doing, Def makes the mode less of a headache if you don't. The most commonly recommended flaws are -Skl and -Lck. -Skl will hurt your early hitrate a bit, but that's generally a lot more palatable than other flaws since it stops mattering once you get some weapons with decent Hit. -Lck doesn't have as much of a penalty to your Hit, but also makes you much more vulnerable to the occasional Gamble Crit early on, which are rare but extremely annoying. It also effectively ruins your chance of doing Armsthrift shenanigans later, which could otherwise let you spam powerful forges all day.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

So I take it you recommend the second path if that's at all feasible for me?

Yeah, it'll give you better timing on things. Your stats will be a little lower, but having an answer to Counter is kind of more important. Even if Ignis isn't super reliable, the promotion will make Robin more durable and that chance to be even more durable is still helpful. By contrast, Merc will be forced to face tank it. And while you'll get bows before you'd get Galeforce, improving reliability in the early chapters over the early-mid chapters is more valuable in keeping resets—and frustration—down.

Oh, and to keep the Merc safe on PP (since you'll more likely be taking path 1), be prepared to buy extra Spotpass Levin Swords.

I'm going to be starting a blind Lunatic playthrough soon. I've played the first few chapters on hard before but that's about it. What are some important things to know (good characters, characters not to use, preferred supports, etc). Also what are the best stats for MU? I was thinking magic as strength just since that's my preferred weapon, but I heard DEF is better. And is there a consensus on what the best thing is to put for the worst stat?

Thanks guys, I just don't want to get my run started with horrible decision making :P

It's not really a blind run anymore if we spoil stuff for you like that. >.>

But if spoiled's what you're really going for, I pretty much second all of what Yoshi said.

[Eon]

I see your point Kuroi :P I don't want the entire thing spoiled, I just wanted to avoid a start where I would screw myself over late game through poor character choice, assuming that's a possibility in this game. Yoshi's advice was quite useful as well regarding parings as well.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Ah. Well, most of the characters are usable. Everyone's got fairly balanced growths in this game. If all you're looking for is the ability to not get stuck, then feeding Robin as many early kills as possible is all you really need to know. One good tank is all that's needed to be able to slow play to spoon feed the other units as needed.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah, sticking with the characters you pick is much more important than which ones you pick (with the exception of Ricken and Donnel, who are bad). Since pretty much everyone starts behind the curve, you need to put a lot of investment into someone before they start making a net contribution to your team. Once you have them making that contribution, you really want them to keep making it, because otherwise you'll have put in the same amount of effort getting them going with a lesser return for your work... And which characters are good in Lunatic depends entirely on how big of a return on investment they can give.

[Alastor15243]

When this morning a merchant without a master seal spawned on my map, I ultimately decided that a, to keep the game going, and b: to make the run more repeatable, I would go with Mercenary for Alexandria. I'm reasonably happy with the choice, especially since she'll be stronger in the long run. I'm just hoping she really DOES have enough time to get galeforce.

Also, what do you guys usually do with the renown awards stat bonus items on lunatic+? I have up to the 8000 reward so I don't have that Naga's Tear, but I have one of every stat bonus item? What do you do with them and when?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

It will be seriously fine unless you overfeed Fred or have Miriel take huge chunks instead of a handful of guys every map. Worst comes to worst, you get it in C13, but you have Bowbreaker, so the enemy bow users' last ~30 Hit gets completely hosed (unless they have Hawkeye, but you're a blessed +Def and they normally only do around 26 at most to a +Spd with a nominally developed Def).

I give the Energy Drop to Chrom to improve his Dual Strike damage output against Aegis+. Otherwise, my restraints stop me from taking any of the others when it really matters. By the time the Spirit Dust shows up, I don't need it anymore. Sometimes I give it to Chrom if he has 8 Mag in order to give Robin a nominal +1 Mag. I suppose I could change my plan to throw it at Dark Flier!Lucina, though, so she can make a bit more use of her tomes.

[Alastor15243]

Alright.

Now that I'm actually here at chapter 5, Int's guide seems to be... not yielding correct results. He says Sumia needs to move 3 north and 3 west from her starting position (which I can only make an educated guess at since he doesn't actually say what that position is) to attract "the mages", but that only puts her in range of one mage, which does nothing to keep mages from swarming Frederick. Plus, I don't see how Frederick is supposed to take two facings from enemies who have critical hit rates from 7-8% generally indefinitely. Am I doing something wrong?

It seems the plan goes horribly wrong if the first two or so wyverns have counter on them, which forces Miriel to unequip, Ricken to attack and thus Maribelle to not heal her, and Miriel to attack since Alexandria is too busy levin-swording the mages if I'm lucky enough that they try to attack Frederick from the space Alexandria can reach. And if Miriel shows the slightest sign of weakness, the barbarian will move out of the way and every single mage will suicide on her if she isn't unequipped.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, Int's strat is a lot less reliable if Robin's durability gets too high. I typically run into this issue when she hits 15 Def after Tonic, whereas even a 23 Def (Kellam, Tonic, 1 over base) Fred will be seen as a preferable target. And yes, if the AI thinks it can score a kill (it won't know it has Luna+, though), it will relentlessly go after it. Oh, and as for the turtle and crit rates, typically Fred wants to have a Lissa C here, which will get him +10 Dodge.

You're probably going to have to go on the offensive here. Being a Merc means no tomes, so no forged!Wind/Book of Naga, but if your Str is high enough, what you could try is buying a Wyrmslayer and forging it up to the point where Alexandria can one-shot the Wyvs. Then go up the middle and fight you way to the Fort. You can kite your way around the middle platform using the Levin Sword to kill Myrm's and Barb's with Counter on PP. With 21 Def, Alexandria shouldn't be in particular danger from normal hits. When you see incoming Wyvs with Counter, get her in range of them and throw the Wyrmslayer on. This leaves the goons in the lower-left to be taken on by everyone else. Since you have a trained Miriel, what you can probably do here is have Fred lure in and weaken them, while Miriel picks them off. You'll need another tank, though. Vaike/Sumia typically works, but necessitates finding a way to eliminate the DM and Myrm, which can be difficult, depending on what skills generate.

Note that enemy shenanigans here is why I've basically been working on C5 for over a month.

[Alastor15243]

Too funds-strapped to forge a wyrmslayer, though I could probably buy an unforged one if I sell something. I'll try to come up with my own plan. I've got a blessed Avatar, surely I can come up with something.

Edit: Looks like I could scrape together enough money by selling a borderline-useless and soon-to-be-replenished secret book and some event tile weapons no one in my party will be able to use for a while in order to get a +1 mt wyrmslayer, which is juuuuust enough to one-shot any wyvern riders on the map who might menace me with counter. Let's see if it works.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Interceptor]

Alright.

Now that I'm actually here at chapter 5, Int's guide seems to be... not yielding correct results. He says Sumia needs to move 3 north and 3 west from her starting position (which I can only make an educated guess at since he doesn't actually say what that position is) to attract "the mages", but that only puts her in range of one mage, which does nothing to keep mages from swarming Frederick. Plus, I don't see how Frederick is supposed to take two facings from enemies who have critical hit rates from 7-8% generally indefinitely. Am I doing something wrong?

It seems the plan goes horribly wrong if the first two or so wyverns have counter on them, which forces Miriel to unequip, Ricken to attack and thus Maribelle to not heal her, and Miriel to attack since Alexandria is too busy levin-swording the mages if I'm lucky enough that they try to attack Frederick from the space Alexandria can reach. And if Miriel shows the slightest sign of weakness, the barbarian will move out of the way and every single mage will suicide on her if she isn't unequipped.

From memory (admittedly unreliable), Sumia is supposed to be in one of the forward positions. She's only going to get directly attacked by one mage; the point of the maneuver is that the second mage will also move towards her to attack, which allows the barbs to get ahead of them. Mages will ruin the choke, since they hit too hard. The idea is to hold the line long enough to kill off the fliers first, before having to deal with ranged attackers.

But C5 is generally a Huge Goddamn Pain in the Ass<tm>. In retrospect, I mostly got through with luck. It might be less reliable than C2, something which would seem absurd in 2013 but is probably true in 2015.

Note that enemy shenanigans here is why I've basically been working on C5 for over a month.

Amen.

[Alastor15243]

Success! And I managed to do it in time to be able to buy the rescue staff and master seal from the merchant who showed up while I was playing!

The trick was to reset for no counter on either of the barbs and no more than 1 counter between the upper barb and myrm, and then use Frederick's Silver Lance and the Celicia's gale from Renown to clear out the lower area quickly. Then it was a matter of watching for counters and trying to take them out at range on player phase. The mildly forged wyrmslayer still has 20 uses on it. Hopefully it'll last me through the other two major wyvern problem spots. Miriel's level 11 and Alexandria is level 9, and I can promote her whenever I want thanks to the Master seal I got.

Should I reclass Miriel to Dark Mage now (or in a level so I don't waste the experience and odd number level) or do something else?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

The Wyrmslayer should get you through C7 with little issue. A Thief in C9 will drop another one if you need it (and it should probably still be okay unforged, since Alexandria will likely be very overleveled), although with bow access, you may not even need to worry too much about those Wyvs.

Sooner is typically better. She's going to lose a point of Spd, though, so keep that in mind if you're just barely at a certain threshold. I also recommend promoting Alexandria ASAP for the bow access and better Dark Flier timing.

[Czar_Yoshi]

But C5 is generally a Huge Goddamn Pain in the Ass<tm>. In retrospect, I mostly got through with luck. It might be less reliable than C2, something which would seem absurd in 2013 but is probably true in 2015.

I'll third that. Cht.2 used to be worse but has had so much more success with current strategies than Cht.5, and now the latter is the problem.

I don't think it will ever become infamous like 2, because a) the majority of the people who complain about Lunatic+ (and thus 2) don't know about these strats, and b) 2 is before the Outrealm Gate and 5 is after it, so the people who just want to beat Lunatic+ without caring how never have to deal with it.

Anyway, my preferred strat for Cht.5 (using plenty of Renown and Spotpass, admittedly) is to do it before Par.1 so Robin's still a Tactician, grab a forged Thoron (or Mjolnir) and go to town on the middle with a Sumia B support (she makes the Mages more palatable and can ferry him to a much better spot), while Fred@Gradivus with a Chrom support and Vaike x Lon'qu waiting in backup fight the bottom left. It's by no means reliable due to being 100% ad-libbed past Turn 1, but I've gotten Cht.5 down in less than an hour real-time (including resets) with a Def flaw with it before (and keep in mind that no Par.1 means my level is a good deal lower).

[Alastor15243]

Um... I'm scared. I just realized that I'm only a level 5 bow knight on paralogue 3 and I still have 25 levels to go before the end of chapter 13 if I want to get both bowbreaker and galeforce. Does EXP start picking up DRASTICALLY? It's starting to look like there just won't be enough enemies for me to get Alexandria to level 15 dark flier by the end of chapter 13.