The Lunatic Club

[Thor Odinson]

Check enemy stats. If most enemies can be doubled by whatever GK's speed is after her pair up bonuses, I think the extra durability may help. I ran GK Sully after Paladin and since she could still double, it worked excellently. As long as you can still double, the speed drop isn't that bad. On the other hand, GK does have the issue of not giving speed on pairup, so if you go GK, make sure your front unit of choice can quad Grima with only +3 speed on pairup after tonics, rally spectrum/speed/both if you have it, etc

It's chapter 15, also. The exp is actually not that tight due to the amount of enemies the game throws at you, so even capping at 8exp/kill the sheer number of enemies you face end up evening out exp gains to something pretty good.

I personally prefer a second unpromoted class (in this case, PK) to going promoted->promoted due to maximizing exp efficiency, and if you have the paralogue 4/chapter 15 arms scroll, it may be good to give Morgan that so she can immediately start using javelins. You can always forge a bronze, as well. Do Grandmaster only if you REALLY want RallySpec, but I feel that's a bit of a waste on a galeforce hyperoffensive unit and while RallySpec is really good it's also not necessary. If you want to get Galeforce ASAP, I'd go PK since it's not exactly a short way to go.

If whatever Lissa brings for combat is really unimportant, Falco is the way to go. Having a bajillion rescue is meaningless when you only have 6 movement (unless you wanna attach her to instapromo cherche or something), when you can have 9 move--if she doesn't have a specific partner you prefer and you have some spare master seals lying around, I'd recommend insta-sealing Henry to Dark Knight to give her 1 more movement and a few points more Mag. It's also easier to keep her out of danger if you can just get her to stay out of range on a mountain somewhere.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Czar_Yoshi]

I plan to try no DLC/grind Lunatic+ again (gave up the other run). What would you guys recommend the class paths to take if I want M!Morgan to have Gladforce?

Also, would Henry/Sumia be workable in Lunatic+?

If you want Morgan to get GF, you can reliably hit it during a Chrom/Robin solo with one base reclass and one promoted reclass. It's difficult to avoid the base reclass as Robin, and avoiding the promoted reclass means going to Peg right away, which locks you to E lances for a while and could be very bad.

Sumia is a great unit in Lunatic+, but waiting that long to give her a husband is going to hurt her. You'd need to have a good A support for her up until Henry comes (Fred?).

I am currently entering Chapter 15 on my nogrind Luna+ file, and I just unlocked S Support for MMU and Lucina, so I will be recruiting Morgan next with my MU passing Armsthrift. However, I have some reclassing that will need to occur soon, and I have some questions regarding where I should send my units.

Morgan has Veteran, 15 in her second promoted class is doable before too long- probably around Cht.20 with some favoritism. If you have an Arms Scroll though, she can safely go straight to Peg, which will net it a lot sooner. Promoting directly to GM works, but Rally Spectrum is good enough that you really want to stay the extra five levels for it.

Bow Knight is also an option for Lucina. She keeps Falchion and 8 Mov, gives nice pairup boosts, and has Bows which are great on Lunatic+. She'll grow quickly in them thanks to Discipline, too. I'd advise either that or GK (depends a bit on Robin's class).

[Thor Odinson]

Hm

I was thinking of doing another fairly lowman (I'm too lazy for full deploy), but instead this time adding galeforce to my SolBows build. I want Galeforce on MU by 13 for Lucina, but also have Sol (mainly for the rout chapters)

So the two paths I could take are Merc(I'm running Nidhogg and Double Bow so I want armthrift) -> Peg -> DF -> Hero (in this case Counter's more of a dick, but having Galeforce should mitigate that somewhat since I can probably kite a bit) -> Sniper

or

Merc->Hero->DF->Sniper

Armthrift would likely offset the cost of buying weapons so I can freely make Bronze forges/armscroll my way up for E bows in Sniper.

Which one would you say works better?

[Irysa]

How many units? If it's literally just Robin+Chrom for the first gen then you can get away with Tact > Merc > Hero > DF, as I've personally managed to do Tact 20 > D.Mage 20 > Sorc 15 > DF and get to Galeforce just about in time for 13 (plus you could skip Axebreaker if you're worried about EXP). Then I went Hero > Assassin (for pass) > Sniper, then went back to Assassin to kill Grima with (since Chrom was a GK in my playthrough so I wasn't fast enough to double without being in Assassin)

Personally I think going back into Peg is just suffering since E lances, your stats are probably capped anyway for Tier 1 and you don't get any good skills either.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Irysa

[Thor Odinson]

How many units? If it's literally just Robin+Chrom for the first gen then you can get away with Tact > Merc > Hero > DF, as I've personally managed to do Tact 20 > D.Mage 20 > Sorc 15 > DF and get to Galeforce just about in time for 13 (plus you could skip Axebreaker if you're worried about EXP). Then I went Hero > Assassin (for pass) > Sniper, then went back to Assassin to kill Grima with (since Chrom was a GK in my playthrough so I wasn't fast enough to double without being in Assassin)

Personally I think going back into Peg is just suffering since E lances, your stats are probably capped anyway for Tier 1 and you don't get any good skills either.

Just Robin/Chrom, yeah. I'm far too lazy to deal with anyone else.

I usually do BK!Lucina x Warrior!Morgan (Sibling A) for Grima, so speed's less of an issue there, so I can probably get away from Sniper all the way.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[ChickenWings]

If you want Morgan to get GF, you can reliably hit it during a Chrom/Robin solo with one base reclass and one promoted reclass. It's difficult to avoid the base reclass as Robin, and avoiding the promoted reclass means going to Peg right away, which locks you to E lances for a while and could be very bad.

Sumia is a great unit in Lunatic+, but waiting that long to give her a husband is going to hurt her. You'd need to have a good A support for her up until Henry comes (Fred?).

It was awful and it was one of the reasons why I gave up on the last run.

Tactician->Dark Mage-> Sorc->Dark Flier sound good?

It looks like a hassle to do that pairing in Lunatic+. I'll try it in Vanilla Lunatic instead.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Just Robin/Chrom, yeah. I'm far too lazy to deal with anyone else.

I usually do BK!Lucina x Warrior!Morgan (Sibling A) for Grima, so speed's less of an issue there, so I can probably get away from Sniper all the way.

Then definitely go Tact -> Merc -> Hero -> DF. The exp is there and the skills are good.

You might have a little trouble in the desert chapters with restricted mobility, so if you're using Spotpass make sure to get a good Wyrmslayer to OHKO non-Pavise+ Wyverns. That'll make it significantly less of a disadvantage.

[Cat1803]

So, I'm working on a project I thought would be small but turned out bigger than I thought: guides for the child paralogues in a Lunatic+ no-grind setting. The idea is that through multiple playthroughs, I recruit each kid at least once and give a general guide on how to conquer the chapter, as well as suggestions for pairings, skill passdowns, and class paths for the given child.

I actually have everyone's done and nearly written up, with two exceptions: Inigo and Gerome. Both are kids I normally don't even use in Vanilla Lunatic, and I was wondering what fathers anyone here normally gave these two in no-grind L+ and around when you recruit them. I figured for Inigo I'd dance spam Olivia x Henry and get him as soon as they hit an S Support (no GF passdown) but I have no idea what to do for Gerome. Thanks for any input, and I'll make a separate thread for this project when I have everyone's done.

[Lucina's Husband]

Aw man, I was too aggressive with trying to get Galeforce on Sumia right away and got stuck on Chapter 13. Restarting my Lunatic file with A +Speed, -Def or +Magic, - Def Male Robin with Aversa as my intended bride. I know I'm giving myself a pretty big handicap by denying myself a wife for main game, and going with a -Def asset. I'm not going to use any of the DLC, but am not at all opposed to Boss or Staff grinding.

Last time I tried to deploy

Avatar X Anna (A Support proxy wife)

Chrom X Sumia

Maribelle X Henry

Lissa X Libra

Cordelia X Ricken

Olivia X Frederick

And found myself completely unable to get Henry, Chrom, Libra, Ricken, and Frederick (Cordelia to a lesser extent) to keep up. What would be a better amount of units for next time? Is there any way to keep your husband's stats up or are they only for pair up for the most part?

Could I do this, and still be all right for Chapter 13 and on? I have no idea how to distribute my experience well:

Chrom X Sumia

Lissa X Maribelle (A Support) (Lissa possibly married to Libra and Maribelle possibly married to Ricken, but I'm completely fine with foregoing these marriages for the maingame... Still, it would be nice to give Lucina a husband).

Avatar x Anna (Proxy Wife)

Cordelia x Lon'Qu OR Virion

Olivia (not at all opposed to dance grinding Olivia to Level 30 or so in Chapter 11) X Frederick

Edited December 29, 2015 by Lucina's Husband

[Czar_Yoshi]

Henry and Fred shouldn't be keeping up. They're hard supports, all they need to do is damage the foe with DSes, don't give them any lead exp.

The same would go for Ricken, but he's one of the worst units in the game- Cord needs good pairup bonuses to get going, if she sunk on your last run it's his fault. I'd strongly advise finding a way not to use him, outside of an emergency Rescue range booster if needbe.

If you want both Sumia and Cord to pass GF with Peg 20 promotions, they need ALL the exp from Cht.8 through 13, a little extra for Cord after that, and as much as you can give Sumia before that. Promoting them early lets you give some combat exp to others- only a little, though- but it also puts you at risk of sinking due to having underleveled main combat units.

As for the staffbots, never have them support eachother. You lose healing turns, and they don't build support with eachother due to not fighting. Lissa can get strong enough to help out in combat and take some pressure off the Pegs, but Maribelle and Libra are going to want to stay behind the lines where it's safe, and not worry about level.

Anna doesn't have much of a future as a long-term combat unit. If Robin lacks a place to be early on, give him Fred, or maybe give Lissa him.

Neither Lon'qu nor Virion would do too well as Cord's husband, I think. They're good in Apo, but Apo optimization and Lunatic+ optimization clash quite a bit, and Lunatic+ will punish you very hard for compromising.

[Lucina's Husband]

Henry and Fred shouldn't be keeping up. They're hard supports, all they need to do is damage the foe with DSes, don't give them any lead exp

The same would go for Ricken, but he's one of the worst units in the game- Cord needs good pairup bonuses to get going, if she sunk on your last run it's his fault. I'd strongly advise finding a way not to use him, outside of an emergency Rescue range booster if needbe.

If you want both Sumia and Cord to pass GF with Peg 20 promotions, they need ALL the exp from Cht.8 through 13, a little extra for Cord after that, and as much as you can give Sumia before that. Promoting them early lets you give some combat exp to others- only a little, though- but it also puts you at risk of sinking due to having underleveled main combat units.

As for the staffbots, never have them support eachother. You lose healing turns, and they don't build support with eachother due to not fighting. Lissa can get strong enough to help out in combat and take some pressure off the Pegs, but Maribelle and Libra are going to want to stay behind the lines where it's safe, and not worry about level.

Anna doesn't have much of a future as a long-term combat unit. If Robin lacks a place to be early on, give him Fred, or maybe give Lissa him.

Neither Lon'qu nor Virion would do too well as Cord's husband, I think. They're good in Apo, but Apo optimization and Lunatic+ optimization clash quite a bit, and Lunatic+ will punish you very hard for compromising.

Who would Cordelia want for pair up then besides Robin?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Stahl sounds promising, Gregor would have the least maintenance but might not have as much to offer Severa. Vaike is another possibility, and there's also Fred if you want Discipline without the earlygame exp investment to keep Stahl relevant.

[dimbenes1]

Finally beat lunatic after buying the game last March And restarting the game twice.

No spotpass/DLC, No low-manning.

Chrom Lord lvl 20-->Great Lord LVL 17
Sumia pegasus knight lvl 20-->dark rider lvl 15-->Falcon knight lvl 6
Jared tactician lvl 20-->grandmaster 15-->dark knight lvl 5
Lucina lord lvl 20-->great lord lvl 17

Panne taguel lvl 30-->taguel lvl 30-->taguel lvl 12

Virion archer lvl 20-->sniper lvl 15--> bow knight lvl 6

Gaius thief lvl 20-->trickster lvl 15-->assassin lvl 5

Nowi manakete lvl 30-->manakete lvl 30-->manakete lvl 29

Cherche wyvern rider lvl 20-->griffon rider lvl 15-->wyvern lord lvl 6
Frederick great knight lvl 15-->paladin lvl 3

Lon'qu myrmidon lvl 20-->swordmaster lvl 15--> assassin lvl 6

Tharja dark mage lvl 20-->sorcerer lvl 20-->sorcerer lvl 3

Olivia dancer lvl 30 -->dancer lvl 30

Lissa cleric lvl 20-->war cleric lvl 15-->sage lvl 19-->falcon knight lvl 1

Everyone is married to the person below them, ending with tharja.

Words can't express how accomplished I feel.

[eclipse]

Congratulations! But no children characters?

[ChickenWings]

Hot damn! If he can use that many gen 1 characters, so can I!

Lucina doesn't count?

Congratulations Dimbenes! Will you do another Lunatic run?

Edited December 30, 2015 by ChickenWings

[dimbenes1]

Congratulations! But no children characters?

Thanks! No, no grinding meant I couldn't complete the children's paralogues until way late in the game (except morgan's, but then Lucina and MU took a while to get married.

Hot damn! If he can use that many gen 1 characters, so can I!

Lucina doesn't count?

Congratulations Dimbenes! Will you do another Lunatic run?

Thanks again :) You sure can do it! just remember exp is love and life in a run like that. I might do another run, same rules, if I do I'll probably use a lot of different characters.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Words can't express how accomplished I feel.

You put 36 levels on Taguel Panne, you really deserve to feel accomplished.

For future reference, Second Sealing early instead of promoting right away lets you stay in base classes longer, which is really good for your stats since you gain exp so much faster. It might not have worked like that since you probably needed the promotion boosts to stay afloat, but it's a good idea for the long term.

Most highmanning strats for Lunatic(+) involve getting someone ahead early on, and then progressively increasing the size of your team as you go along- you won't hit full deployment until the kids start showing up, but having some true tanks and sweepers to take some map control allows you much greater freedom in who you else you can use and how they can help (since you don't have to worry about them surviving Enemy Phases), and also gives you the power to take on child paralogues (which are massive sources of midgame exp). That might not fit your definition of a true highman, but once you get it going, it allows all the extra units to be a net asset to your team (as in you wouldn't suddenly do better if you dropped them all and started snowballing).

[Mackc2]

I have a conundrum with Lunatic I hate to make any one unit overpowered compared to everyone else however from what I've seen to beat Lunatic you basically have to do this with the avatar.
I'm sure it is possible to beat Lunatic in my style of keeping my whole team relevant but how difficult should I expect it to be to do it this way?

[Irysa]

You don't have to make Robin overpowered to beat Lunatic, but you do basically need at least one superunit in order to handle routing Chapters 23 and 24. It's also a very good idea to have someone who is fast enough to double attack Grima after rallies/tonics/pairup boosts/etc supporting and paired up with Chrom or Lucina so you can quad attack Grima with Brave Weapons and rely on Falchion dualstrikes beat him.

The easiest way to neuter Robin from taking over the game is to use at Master Seal on them instead of a Second Seal when they hit 20. They'll remain a powerful unit until near the end of the game, but they'll also be very flexible in providing good pair up bonuses and boosts from Rally Spectrum to other units. In general, avoiding Second Seals on anyone too early in the game helps to prevent superunit status, because they just don't level up fast enough to get significantly ahead of the enemy stat curve. However, those other parents will become quite mediocre statistically quicker than Robin, especially if you're training lots of units, including their spouses.

However, as I said before, you are still going to want some kind of extremely tanky and powerful unit to handle C23 and C24, and someone who can quad Grima. Since Robin's growth is going to be stifled, and other first gen units are probably not going to be relevant lategame without the an early Second Seal use, you should look to the children. Lucina or Morgan are both pretty good candidates to train over the course of Paralogues and Valm maps, and they make good use of immediate Second Seals too. They will eventually break the game, but the overall amount of game being broken is significantly less as it takes a bit of time for them to get there, so it's still a more rewarding experience to beat all the relevant maps in a less cheesy fashion.

Other children like Kjelle, Laurent, Cynthia or Severa also have pretty good potential too. It can help to phase out the parents as the kids become stronger, having the parents primarily function as pair up units later on in the game.

It's also possible to have Tiki handle C23 and 24 if you manage to recruit her immediately (which is a bit tricky unless you have a lot of units, but if you're training a lot of units then it's certainly doable), as long as you give her a speed pairup and make sure you can keep giving her Dragonstone+'s (either via spotpass shops or a rift door/anna merchant on chapter 17). However she won't quad Grima, so you'll still have a bit of a problem there. (it's bullshit that Tiki doesn't have a Prf Dragonstone that's effective against Grima)

Edited December 31, 2015 by Irysa

[Czar_Yoshi]

There's a big difference between keeping your entire team the same level, and having all the members be relevant and able to contribute meaningfully. If you want the later, you're going to have to forget about the former, and if you want the former, you're going to struggle to keep any of your team relevant.

What you need to do in order to highman Lunatic(+) is get a few units who are able to take map control and make some safe space, which allows you to field units who are strong enough to fight, but not strong enough to take exposed enemy phases. This usually involves starting small, with Robin as your main combat unit (for the first four chapters), adding as much non-combat exp as you can (staves), and using your other deployment slots for units who can run interference, maybe sponge some damage and provide useful pairup bonuses (the back of a pairup is an extremely safe place to be, use pairup liberally to field more units).

Once Robin is strong enough to hold off foes without fighting for his life, you can add in one or two more- pick strong mothers with spread out recruitment times for best results. Sumia, Cordelia, Miriel, Panne and Nowi are usually the best- you'll want Chrom with Sumia, Robin with another and maybe one more. Also raise Lissa and possibly Maribelle, and be as aggressive as possible getting staff exp for them. If you want to do Robin x Cord and do a quad Galeforce passdown, you'll need to leave it at those two pairs (plus staffbots), if you don't care about GF then you can add one more, maybe two. Always reclass Panne to Wyvern asap if used.

After Cht.13, you can pick up the children. They'll go in any auxiliary slots you were using for pairup/thieves/etc, and you should be at a full party. From there, just play offensively and don't get cornered, and leave your strongest units forward to take the bulk of enemy aggression.

[Mackc2]

Thank you so much that is actually really useful advice I might actually be able to get past chapter 3 this time

Edited December 31, 2015 by Mackc2

[Lucina's Husband]

Got Lissa to Level 20 on Donnel's paralogue (have beaten chapter and not yet tackled 5), and her Magic, Speed, Luck, and Skill stats are quite high, though I can't seem to remember the last time I saw her get any points in defense. Should I second seal her to Troubadour and keep healing her up to 20 again before I promote, or just promote her to Sage now, so she can start killing stuff alongside Sumia and Robin.

Troubadour Stats

Strength: 8

Magic: 16

Skill: 12

Speed: 14

Luck: 20

Defense: 7

Resistance: 12

Sage Stats

Strength: 9

Magic: 20

Skill: 15

Speed: 16

Luck: 20

Defense: 10

Resistance: 12

Additionally, my Sumia is a bit behind at around Level 8, though she's still managing to kill stuff pretty handily. I kept trying to get her more kills, but only Lon'qu paired with Vaike was able to kill the swarm of axe-wielding enemies in Donnel's paralogue. Should I just focus on feeding her and give up on Cordelia? Can I get through the rest of the game with only:

Sumia X Chrom, Avatar, Lissa, Frederick, Olivia, Maribelle, and a weaker Cordelia paired with Vaike or Stahl?

With Lucina, Say'ri, Tiki, and maybe Severa to look forward to? Which units are worth investing in at this point?

Edited December 31, 2015 by Lucina's Husband

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'm fond of sending Lissa to Troub, because Valks are nice and Rally Res is going to be more useful lategame than Rally Mag (in my experience).

Don't worry too much about her Def, she's more of a dodgetank and will soon have enough HP to take a few hits should that fail.

Lv.8 Sumia after Par.1 is really good, she's already ahead of Cord and three chapters earlier. If she has C Lances (she better), give her the Killer Lance for an extra power boost. The Pegs can feast very easily in Cht.8 and 9 due to their terrain, weapon and stat advantages, so levels now are just going to give her an earlier promotion. She can't meaningfully contribute before Cht.6, but if you get her strong enough to snipe a few things in Cht.5 that'll be great. How's her support with Chrom?

Lon'qu and Vaike? Is Robin out of Tactician already (and not going Merc)?

Vaike supports Cord well, but slightly limits Severa's early reclassing options. The units worth investing in really should be the ones you've already invested in (don't give exp to short-term units where avoidable).

[Lucina's Husband]

I'm fond of sending Lissa to Troub, because Valks are nice and Rally Res is going to be more useful lategame than Rally Mag (in my experience).

Don't worry too much about her Def, she's more of a dodgetank and will soon have enough HP to take a few hits should that fail.

Lv.8 Sumia after Par.1 is really good, she's already ahead of Cord and three chapters earlier. If she has C Lances (she better), give her the Killer Lance for an extra power boost. The Pegs can feast very easily in Cht.8 and 9 due to their terrain, weapon and stat advantages, so levels now are just going to give her an earlier promotion. She can't meaningfully contribute before Cht.6, but if you get her strong enough to snipe a few things in Cht.5 that'll be great. How's her support with Chrom?

Lon'qu and Vaike? Is Robin out of Tactician already (and not going Merc)?

Vaike supports Cord well, but slightly limits Severa's early reclassing options. The units worth investing in really should be the ones you've already invested in (don't give exp to short-term units where avoidable).

I got insanely lucky and found a Mend merchant along with another Master Seal. Fed Sumia just about all the experience she could eat. Lissa is currently a Level 7 Sage and her Defense is only a few points away from Frederick's! I tried out abusing every single Archer on the map and got her several levels up through cleric and Sage. Chrom is at 6 and Sumia got fed plenty of kills in Chapter 5. The extra renown stat boosting items have made her something of a dodge demon. About to start Chapter 7 now. Chrom and Sumia have B support. Have no idea how I'm going to level up Cordelia in that chapter when Sumia and Lissa kill most everything. Chrom and Sumia have a B! Robin is a little behind and hasn't had a defense point in forever. He's +Magic, -Defense to marry to Aversa eventually. Should I put him to Dark Mage or Merc?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Cord can't train in Cht.7, start getting her going in Cht.8 instead. There's a mountain in the top left with a DM and a Barb lurking nearby, that's a good place to start her- fight defensively, stay out of range, melee stuff to death whenever safe.