Folgore Rangers Mafia -- GAME OVER

[Jaybee]

(hit bpv)

[scorri]

Eclipse, I am aware that mafia may have done this to attempt to put suspicion on Mancer which is why I'm not currently voting Mancer. It's just the only really approaching solid thought I have on this game right now due to how far behind I am. I'll be dropping it now because I really should have never gotten into role spec in the first place, I just felt horrible for coasting when I said I wasn't going to do that.

[eclipse]

JB!

Since I think a general lack of opinion of everyone that isn't Mancer/Sho/BBM isn't in the best interest of my notes, my vote will stay for the time being.

You're also not allowed to die on your books.

scorri: I have no idea what's going on in RL, but please don't take what I post personally. It's mafia, so naturally I'm gonna disagree with things!

[Kay]

Frankly I don't think that Rapiers vote swap is what people should be worried about. That late in the phase everyone saw it and it isn't something that would give him townie cred so I don't understand how people would say he did it for town cred. If you are voting Rapier there needs to be more there than you voting him because he swapped at the end of the phase.

WRT Baldricks question towards me. I only found it very coincidental. It didn't seem like anything big but it was weird to me.

This isn't explaining and outlining the other reasons why you voted Rapier. I would like to see your full case if you have one. Because you said you have a scumread on Baldrick who is also voting rapier which makes unsure about it, but you would stick with it because rapier chose not to acknowledge your votes. Which frankly I don't see much of an issue with, considering he said he was going to sleep. If you are gonna vote Rapier explain why he's scum. Because right now it seems that you actually think Baldrick is more likely to flip scum, yet you are choosing to vote Rapier.

##Vote: BBM

Uh, yeah, Rapier not changing his vote would have been scummy. Then he'd have made a case against Sho, clearly considered him a top scumread, and not voted for him, and we'd probably all be calling him out on it now. It's not so much that it would give him towncred to vote for Sho at that point as that it would give him scumcred not to.

Shinori's case on Shin makes sense to me, but I don't agree with it entirely. Shin's still kind of a noob, he could just be trying to look at things from different angles. He looks more scummy than not but it isn't a very strong read.

[scorri]

Eclipse: Any emotion that may have been read in that post was unintended. I was not at all offended by what you said, I just took a step back and realized that my spec wasn't especially useful until we know more. Thus my deciding to move past that point.

[eclipse]

All right~!

Lucina, I see you~! What are your thoughts?

[Ema Skye]

Hey you doofuses. Sorry for not being around much so far, but that's life.

The masshook seems kinda funky. I'm inclined to agree with scorri with regards to "Why is Mancer still alive?". He seemed like an obvious scumkill after that claim, so I'm a little shocked to see that he's still around (and the lack of a kill is even more surprising). Couple of reasons I have for this are, in no particular order:

a) Mancer is BPV doctor.

b) We have multiple doctors and one protected Mancer

c) Mancer wasn't the scum target last night and Mancer (or hypothetical other doctor) protected the victim)

d) Mancer is scum doctor

e) Masshook blocked scum kill (if this is the case, I don't know how likely it is for masshooker to be scum aligned, since it seems really counterproductive to me)

Right now, I'm not comfortable voting for him after the claim. Lynching claimed doctor is obviously not a good idea.

Gonna look through ISOs and establish some reads brb.

[Ema Skye]

hai guys have reads as promised

Town reads, in no particular order:

- Darros (frequently active and posts a lot, wants to scumhunt, posts good posts, doesn't play stupidly)

- eclipse (I like her content; she makes really good posts.

- Shinori (I like his stuff too. I really feel like he's doing a lot of scumhunting.)

- Kay (doesn't post a whole lot, but I think she's working pretty good in the scumhunting department)

- elieson (holy scumhunting batman)

- BBM (I know putting him here after my vote on him in D1 will make me look scummy, but I'm liking his content after a read of his ISO.)

- Xinnidy (really like her content. Seems like a nice scumhunter. Doesn't have anything questionable in her content)

Neutral, in no particular order:

- Baldrick (don't really like that he asked if people idled or not, but I think he's trying to be a good scumhunter)

- scorri (haven't seen a whole lot of scumhunting from her, and her content doesn't swing me either way)

- Mancer (hai guys i'm a doctor but i dont make really great posts)

Scum, in no particular order:

- Shin (hasn't done really anything worth noting beyond talking about Rapier. Posts a whole lot of fluff)

- SB (only real contribution to the game is tunneling Shinori for tunneling Baldrick)

- JB (posts mostly fluff as of late. When he did have content posts, they seem all over the place (#208 seems really tunnely, #86 seems kinda towny, as does #203))

- Rapier (hasn't done... really anything of note)

[MancerNecro]

Noting that Lucina has literally ignored my D2 posts which are better than my D1 posts, but not going to make a big deal of it.

I'm going to say that I'm not BPV and I was not shot.

In other words, one of the reason why I immediately assumed that the Mass Roleblock was town or ITP was because there were no kills (especially on me), especially as a Night without any potential multiple Doctors or Watchers is the perfect chance to kill a Doctor.

Mafia was probably caught off guard by the Mass Roleblock as well.

[MancerNecro]

JB seems to be very intent on tunneling a claimed Doctor. I don't think this is good at all. My vote stays on him until he can come up with better posts.

[eclipse]

That's. . .not what I had in mind. It's one thing to state a scum read, but I see nothing to actually push any of them. Lucina, surely you have enough to build a case against someone!

[Ema Skye]

Would be okay with either a Shin or Rapier lynch right now. Rapier hasn't done pretty much anything, but neither has Shin. Don't like the content of either them, but I've already stated that.

Rapier, your ideas on the game so far please. Any reads so far? Same question at you Shin. I'll judge your responses and one of you will get my vote unless something comes up in-game before then.

Sleeping now.

[Kay]

Noting that Lucina has literally ignored my D2 posts which are better than my D1 posts, but not going to make a big deal of it.

I'm going to say that I'm not BPV and I was not shot.

In other words, one of the reason why I immediately assumed that the Mass Roleblock was town or ITP was because there were no kills (especially on me), especially as a Night without any potential multiple Doctors or Watchers is the perfect chance to kill a Doctor.

Mafia was probably caught off guard by the Mass Roleblock as well.

Nah, your D2 posts aren't really that great either IMO.

Also, I'd like to know what your actual scumreads are. You unvoted scorri when she replied in a way you approved of, and now with your voting for JB until he says better stuff, I get the impression you're just voting for people to poke them and don't actually consider them scum. Which means I don't know who you do think is scum, and I don't really like that.

[MancerNecro]

Hmm...

Well, scorri's response satisfies me so ##Unvote: scorri.

What ticks me off is JB's claim that my vote on scorri was horrendous without any reasoning for it. My vote on scorri was justified. Please tell me what you think is scummy about my vote, JB.

##Vote: Illuminate

Main reads from Day 1 still applies.

Read this, Kay.

[Baldrick]

SC1

Not particularly serious != completely unserious. I was interested in her reaction and her initial reaction to my vote wasn’t great.

The first part you underline was me saying I had nothing that suggested she might be lying scum (she had made only a miller claim and an RVS vote when I voted her). The second part was me defending my pushing of the vote (which is why he maintained his vote).

SC2

You kept bringing it up, which would help keep discussion alive, even though your intention was the opposite. If I think something is unimportant and shouldn’t be thought about anymore, I don’t give it any air.

SC3

The Sho case never existed? I thought Sho’s flavourspec has been gone over, and your question “Why are you town?” carried the unspoken addendum “because you’ve basically done nothing but flavourspec”. It wasn’t worth concern because there was little to be gained in continuing to discuss Sho compared to discussing the other players.

Italics; that’s because I was paraphrasing your case against Xinnidy. In retrospect, I should have phrased it like the others, i.e “he wonders why Xinnidy keeps discussing the miller claim, then he realises she’s trying to stamp out that discussion”, but I wasn’t giving it my full attention at the time.

It’s possible to vote for somebody who you think is scummy, but still be a sheep about it, if you just say the same thing everyone else said when they voted (perhaps echoing is a more accurate term for what I meant?) I could have gone for a new angle, but without any belief in it, I would have looked like I was grasping for an excuse not to echo the others on the wagon.

Common sense makes me think that. In eclipse’s scenario where mafia have a mass roleblock that affects town actions only, who else would they go for if not the claimed doc?

[MancerNecro]

Basically, I think the mass Roleblock is a town role that's meant to stall and delay a Day or something, but that'll be role speculation, so I'll drop off that case now.

[BBM]

Common sense makes me think that. In eclipse’s scenario where mafia have a mass roleblock that affects town actions only, who else would they go for if not the claimed doc?

This is just it. We don't know anything about the mass-hook other than that the town was hooked by it. For all we know, it could be a mafia mass-hook that also hooks the mafia. It could even be a town mass-hook (though the decision to use it so early was questionable in that case). Discussing so much about it is pointless.

[CT075]

sigh

JBCWK (2): Eclipse, Mancer

Rapier (2): BBM, Baldrick

BBM (1): Shinori

Shin (1): Elieson

With 15 players alive, 5 votes are needed to lynch and 10 votes are needed to hammer. You have 1 day, 11 hours and 20 minutes left in the phase.

Edited March 5, 2013 by CT075

[Shin]

Would be okay with either a Shin or Rapier lynch right now. Rapier hasn't done pretty much anything, but neither has Shin. Don't like the content of either them, but I've already stated that.

Rapier, your ideas on the game so far please. Any reads so far? Same question at you Shin. I'll judge your responses and one of you will get my vote unless something comes up in-game before then.

Totally bogus, man! But sure, I'm not a yellow bellied coward!

Well, from what I've said previously. We have Rapier, who's reasoning hasn't exactly been the strongest and swapped to Sho after a while. That isn't enough to warrant a lynch, especially since he hasn't posted in over a day and his contributions have been pretty empty. BBM's did a stupid on D1 but I think that's just him, I've seen him in the same situation as town before, although I'd be careful using that as my sole judgement. I want to hear Rapier try and defend himself first.

JB, regarding your comment on you not voting for Sho, fair enough, that's what I actually wanted to hear. Rapier's reasoning was probably "everyone else is voting Sho, I should too so I don't look bad.".

We seem to have what is Baldrick vs Eli. Eli hasn't really focused much on anyone other than Balders, although I can appreciate that Eli may be occupied with his LIFE. Baldrick's main case against Eli was initially that Eli mostly ignored the nonsense-spouting Sho from what I saw. Although Baldrick seemed to turn against the contradictory Rapier and drop the Eli assault by day 2.

Your reasoning's pretty lazy itself. You've got a couple of words about everyone. "His logic am guud" "I laik her pasting". All your scum reads are "they haven't posted very much." which is pretty weak in all honesty. Most uncool!

##Vote: Doofina

You call people out for not saying much, but you haven't said a great deal either. Also... timezones and British! Best excuses ever.

[Shin]

Cam, with votals, how does Eli have two votes... so incampetent!

[CT075]

i don't know what you're talking about

also i lied you have 11:20 left not 8:20

morning history class is not a good time for me to attempt to into math

[Jaybee]

JB seems to be very intent on tunneling a claimed Doctor. I don't think this is good at all. My vote stays on him until he can come up with better posts.

apologies for being much more wary of a claimed doctor (who claimed 20 minutes before what he believed was phase end) than claimed miller or anybody else

looking at baldrick posts, quite a bit of his D1 isn't that good (voting Elie over Sho, not doing anything productive with his vote for a long time) but his D2's been... decent, I suppose. I guess you could say he was defending Sho with his Elie vote, but I'm not seeing that strong a link.

##Vote: Rapier

still don't like his reasoning for his late Sho vote (you honestly don't need to vote somebody if it's obvious they'll be lynched without your vote), and needs to say more than "i probably just claimed my role lol"

[Rapier]

Argh so many posts and pages and I couldn't get online yesterday... Let's see.

Fair enough. I presume the reason behind it is because Cam is not Boron.

Looking at Rapier, I don't like what I see. He thought Mancer was town, but talked about the value of lynching him? You're surely not that desperate for reads. We shouldn't aim for any mislynches whatsoever.

I said I liked his atitude, because he didn't focus on only one vote candidate for the entire phase. Then he started to jump around and Unvote/Vote a lot based on weak reads. This attitude of his made me change my mind about him and think his behavior was scummy.

In response to Xinnidy here he says he has reasons against Mancer, Lucina and Sho. This seems like a thin excuse to me, since he didn't actually have an argument for them being scum. He just said Mancer's posting habits weren't helping, and that Lucina had disappeared and needed a prod.

##Vote: Rapier

It's true, my reads are pretty weak. I mostly prodded Lucy and said how Mancer's habits were scummy to me, but other than that, Sho seemed like a good lynch candidate since he wasn't doing anything other than souding like a mad oracle.

I figure I'll give myself some rest for now.

I still don't understand your reasons for believing I am scum. All you stated here was about Mancer. What was so scummy about prodding him and believing his jumpy attitude was scummy?

@JB

I'll explain that to you for the third time, in response to your post #290. I didn't vote Sho because it was useless at the time and there were other people voting him for the same reasons as I, so I wouldn't get any more info than them. So, I decided to focus more in other players, such as Mancer and Lucy (because I suck at mafia and I can't keep notes about every single player's posts and points through walls of text and 20 in-thread pages). As we were getting closer to the deadline, I decided to ultimately vote Sho because I preferred a lynch over him than a lynch over Mancer, because at least Mancer was more helpful than MadOracleWhoLikesMeta!Sho and the latter hadn't claimed Doc.

Can you get new motives agaisnt me already? This is getting repetitive and forced as hell. >_>

Also

Oops, forgot to mention Rapier. JB's given us wonderful evidence of contradictions. Although that just might be Rapier, who isn't quite as sharp as his namesake.

Derp. That's all he's got to say about me, other than praise JB with a "well done". Not enough to call me scummy, I believe, but Shin's a new player so I give him the benefit of doubt.

JB, why they be voting you, most uncool! In all fairness, even if we kept Sho around he wouldn't have done anything, he'd be barely able to peel an orange by himself. However, you didn't really say that much about him, and a lot of your posts are questioning why people even bothered voting for him. You got some splaining to do!

Rapier, so quiet! Your reasoning on the last minute Sho jump was pretty poor. "I voted Sho because it was da end and I wanted to vote for him but I voted for someone else then there was nobody else to vote for." Your posts have also been pretty bare, I'm not too interested in your morning math class.

So you believe Sho was more useless than scummy?

I'll address this point on my BBM quote that's comming up next. I'm just putting this here so you know I'm not forgetting to address you.

There's not too much to say about Rapier in all honesty, I was sorta hoping he'd answer something said directly to him but no dice yet. I think it's too early to park a vote on him, he's said a few silly things but it's really not conclusive... so not groovy! He was reluctant to vote Sho but did so in the end, probably in an attempt to not look scummy. It's an odd move, but it doesn't really say anything about which side he's on. He said Mancer's case on BBM was solid, but hasn't touched on that since swapping to Sho, but his lack of activity means we can't say anything just yet.

I wasn't ever reluctant to vote Sho. I just found it pointless back then, when we had time to vote other people and get reactions from them. We weren't getting any good reactions from Sho, other than "Hey guys I can't play Mafia on D1 so excuse me", and we even got the same answer twice. I found it a legit vote by the end of the phase, though.

And that case Mancer had agaisnt BBM is old as hell, we've got over it by now. Why bring such things back from the grave?

##Vote: Rapier

I don't have the problem that JB has with Rapier with the "contradiction". That seems kind of forced to me. My problem with Rapier is that he switched to vote Sho even though Sho was heads above the next lynch candidate to get lynched. I can understand not seeing the point in voting for a secondary scumread if a lot of people were already voting for him, but then deciding to do it later so close to phase end makes me feel he was trying to look good upon Sho's flip.

I don't think I understand your point, or your post at all. Why was it so wrong to vote Sho when I had more legit reasons to vote him instead of voting someone like Mancer or Lucy? Remember, Mancer claimed Doc and I was reluctant on voting him, while I didn't have much agaisnt Lucy, I just prodded her before. So, back to my first scumread, Sho, as Lucy wasn't anywhere near being lynched too. This is only a logical conclusion.

In addition to what Baldrick said, he went from townvibes on Mancer to calling him scummy the next day and suggesting to lynch him even though he was the Doctor, which was pretty weird.

Objection! That's not what I did at all. *red truth* I never suggested to lynch Mancer after he claimed Doctor. *red truth*

I took my vote out of Mancer as soon as I learned he was the Doc. Since it was around phase end, I also switched my vote to my strongest scum read, Sho. As I explained before, I had only three reads: Mancer, Sho and Lucy. The former was convicted by role claim, the latter I don't have much agaisnt and I simply prodded her.

As for why my towncibes on Mancer turned to scumvibes the next day, I explained this before. He was not focusing only in one target for the duration of the game, he didn't votepark, and he understood the importance of voting and questioning others.... Until he started to vote 5 different people, unvoting and then voting another on a rather quick pace, sometimes using weak reads. That's what I consider jumping, and that's an attitude I consider scummy.

However, after Baldrick's case on Rapier, I'm not really that sure because it doesn't look like bussing to me, and I also think Rapier is scummy. I'll read them both again later as to whom I find worse, but I'll stick with the Rapier vote for now, because Rapier's reaction to two votes on him was to not defend himself or even acknowledge them at all.

How did Baldrick's case on me make him seem more town to you? I honestly can't understand this part.

@Mancer

Dear Mancer,

Stop voting people for the slightest reason you find, the most recent case I read up to is your post #369, when JB explicitely said he was going to come back soon to explain his vote on you. That was not necessary. Voting people for the slightest reason you find is not scumhunting. Rather, your lack of stance and focus make you seem scummy, and your not well-thought votes make it seems like you're overreacting. Got it memorized?

Yours truly,

Rapier.

So, I'll ##Vote: Mancer for his false contribuition to the game, which seems more like he's trying to say he's helping by making votes without substance when he actually isn't. However, there are some other things I'd like to address, but I haven't finished re-reading some stuff such as Baldrick's ISOs, 'cause I can't remember him doing much on D1 and that's what makes me more warry than usual. Same thing with a lesser extent to Lucy, since I already addressed her on D1, so hang with me there.

Mancer seems to have gotten it together so far today, which is good because yesterday was . Time will tell if he does the same thing as yesterday with hopping around and acting strange.

So you approve of Mancer's vote to Scorri and JB? What do you have to say about them?

Frankly I don't think that Rapiers vote swap is what people should be worried about. That late in the phase everyone saw it and it isn't something that would give him townie cred so I don't understand how people would say he did it for town cred. If you are voting Rapier there needs to be more there than you voting him because he swapped at the end of the phase.

I also wonder about this. Why is my case different than the others'? Why am I the only one who wanted to get towncred by voting Sho by the end of the phase? I had justified many times before why I found him scummy, so why does it seem so wrong that I voted him by the end, especially because he was the only player aside from Mancer that seemed to be getting lynched on D1 end?

[Rapier]

Ugh, that "I figure I'll give myself some rest for now" part was supposed to be on the end of the post. Derp.

[Shin]

Argh so many posts and pages and I couldn't get online yesterday... Let's see.

I said I liked his atitude, because he didn't focus on only one vote candidate for the entire phase. Then he started to jump around and Unvote/Vote a lot based on weak reads. This attitude of his made me change my mind about him and think his behavior was scummy.

Don't focus on one person = great tactics gg. You had reasons against him, but then said you'd rather go back to your slightly scummy lead of Sho. Smooth, daddio.

It's true, my reads are pretty weak. I mostly prodded Lucy and said how Mancer's habits were scummy to me, but other than that, Sho seemed like a good lynch candidate since he wasn't doing anything other than souding like a mad oracle.

Mostly did that... that was a short paragraph with shoddy logic and a single poke.

I still don't understand your reasons for believing I am scum. All you stated here was about Mancer. What was so scummy about prodding him and believing his jumpy attitude was scummy?

You've done a few strange things and your reasoning behind it wasn't great. After all your stuff about Mancer, you go and vote Sho.

I'll explain that to you for the third time, in response to your post #290. I didn't vote Sho because it was useless at the time and there were other people voting him for the same reasons as I, so I wouldn't get any more info than them. So, I decided to focus more in other players, such as Mancer and Lucy (because I suck at mafia and I can't keep notes about every single player's posts and points through walls of text and 20 in-thread pages). As we were getting closer to the deadline, I decided to ultimately vote Sho because I preferred a lynch over him than a lynch over Mancer, because at least Mancer was more helpful than MadOracleWhoLikesMeta!Sho and the latter hadn't claimed Doc.

Can you get new motives agaisnt me already? This is getting repetitive and forced as hell. >_>

He's sticking to you because you're scummy. You voted Sho as to not seem scummy, after keeping your vote on someone who you thought was AFK but wasn't for a day.

Derp. That's all he's got to say about me, other than praise JB with a "well done". Not enough to call me scummy, I believe, but Shin's a new player so I give him the benefit of doubt.

I didn't praise him, I acknowledged that the answer he gave was suitable. Before this post, I wasn't too sure about you, but you're doing a bad job of covering your rear.

So you believe Sho was more useless than scummy?

Sho did nothing of any value, all he did was rage against Mancer. Sho is angry at the best of times, I don't think he swayed anyone's opinion on anyone but himself.

I wasn't ever reluctant to vote Sho. I just found it pointless back then, when we had time to vote other people and get reactions from them. We weren't getting any good reactions from Sho, other than "Hey guys I can't play Mafia on D1 so excuse me", and we even got the same answer twice. I found it a legit vote by the end of the phase, though.

"I don't see any value in voting Sho... I didn't vote Sho because everyone else was... I don't have any leads I guess I'll have to vote Sho." Does that sounds familiar? I'll give you a groovy clue, you said it!

Objection! That's not what I did at all. *red truth* I never suggested to lynch Mancer after he claimed Doctor. *red truth*

I took my vote out of Mancer as soon as I learned he was the Doc. Since it was around phase end, I also switched my vote to my strongest scum read, Sho. As I explained before, I had only three reads: Mancer, Sho and Lucy. The former was convicted by role claim, the latter I don't have much agaisnt and I simply prodded her.

You never voted Mancer, your votes went Loocina -> Sho. That's funny isn't it? Best of all, you said that Lucy was one of your leads, but you've never actually gave any reasons... padding out your scumpool right?

As for why my towncibes on Mancer turned to scumvibes the next day, I explained this before. He was not focusing only in one target for the duration of the game, he didn't votepark, and he understood the importance of voting and questioning others.... Until he started to vote 5 different people, unvoting and then voting another on a rather quick pace, sometimes using weak reads. That's what I consider jumping, and that's an attitude I consider scummy.

Mancer is scum for jumping with his vote? Sure, I can see where that's coming from, he's a little fishy, especially since he's jumped back and forward with some votes.

Same thing with a lesser extent to Lucy, since I already addressed her on D1, so hang with me there.

No you didn't, Loocina had something personal to attend to... and you still didn't say anything.

I also wonder about this. Why is my case different than the others'? Why am I the only one who wanted to get towncred by voting Sho by the end of the phase? I had justified many times before why I found him scummy, so why does it seem so wrong that I voted him by the end, especially because he was the only player aside from Mancer that seemed to be getting lynched on D1 end?

You have more plotholes than Back to the Future! Most uncool! He was way ahead of Mancer and you weren't terribly adamant with your Sho vote.

##TotallyBogus: Rapier