Folgore Rangers Mafia -- GAME OVER

[Jaybee]

posting after shower

[Baldrick]

But I'm not going to say anything I don't believe in, or spout noise in order to seem useful. Using your PR to that extent is not pro-town, and his scum reads have not been worth much.

[Jaybee]

Alright, I'm alive!

First point of note: From being the 5th vote on the BBM wagon, Mancer transited to 4th on the Sho wagon and 3rd on the Lucy wagon before running back to voting Sho. Interesting.

So I am somehow solely responsible for the 5 vote wagon?

Also, BBM's not at L-1. Hammer is 2/3s of the votes rounded down, meaning 10 votes are required for hammer, not 6. 6 is just the minimum requirement for a lynch.

That being said, you seem to be very anxious about BBM being lynched and acted very quickly (too quickly) to the stacked up votes on him.

I interpret this as buddying. I'll elaborate more on this later, but right now I actually think that you and BBM might be scum buddies given how you found him bad but decided to vote someone else you had no reads on.

When did I ever say that, or imply anything like that? Well, technically it's true, in the sense that without your vote there would be no 5-man wagon, but what I meant was that you're the 5th vote on a wagon that came up less than 12 hours after phase start, in a 16-player game. That's fast, son.

>calling out somebody for sheeping = no reads on that person

>okkkkkkkk

Not really seeing the case on BBM. Not making me like Mancer but neither does it make me like any other of the voters.

##Vote: Scorri

This forest isn't big enough for 2 Hair dryer based robots with fabulous emo bangs and questionable alligment

what the fuck semi-random vote so far into the phase

Anyways, JB's reaction to my wagon was scummy. He agreed with the reasons behind the wagon by quoting one of my posts and rehashing the points that other people had made. Then he said that some of the people on my wagon were scummy for simply voting due to rehashed reasons.

##Unvote, ##Vote: JB

and that kills any mention of the buddying

That response from BBM was more coherent, so I'm ##Unvote: BBM to ##Vote: Illuminate.

My reasons are all above, and they actually have been quoted by some players as well, so I think most players won't have missed them.

Man, you took a really long time to switch over to me after outright calling me scum in 2 posts before that. Why?

JB's "serious time" also rubs me the wrong, along with his tone in general.

im sorry i cant pr

How many times must I say that I think Shojor (who scorri obviously is or is pretenting to be) Makes perfect miller OR miller fakeclaim. if its former, hat tip to boron for being awesome. If its the latter. ITS PERFECT WAY TO FOOL ANYONE WHO KNOWS THIS PART OF FOLGORE STUFF. Before I took a step back and though, I was ready to call scorri clear for fuck's sake. Somebody aknowledged with folgore lore could figure to try and make this a thing to fool lorewhores

1. Not everybody is familiar with Folgore lore (me).

2. Why so much rolespec?

I have a read that I fucking hate Day 1.

I have nothing more to say about scorri deal other than ITS EASY AS ALL HELL FAKECLAIM TO MAKE AND HAS THE BENEFIT OF BEING MILLER CLAIM!

And elie, I only answer once questioned

People hitting my PR's on/off button is fun

why so much rolespec

Yes, you might call it an "easy fakeclaim", especially with the miller claim. Yes, it's possible that scorri is indeed Shojor or some other character, and fakeclaimed miller. However, which is more likely right now that we have almost no information, a well-crafted fakeclaim or an actual claim? Apply Occam's Razor.

@Xinnidy: ISO my posts please, I had reads on quite a number of players and not just BBM and JB. I only linked up BBM as scum buddies because of how quickly and anxiously he jumped to BBM's defense. As JB admitted, he found BBM bad and scummy but did not vote him. I call that scummy behaviour and a little bit of buddying and hard-defending. That, as explained in that post is only a feeling and was never the main basis behind my reads on BBM and JB.

Are you sure that my supposed 'defense' of BBM isn't the main reason behind your reads on me? You spent an awful amount of time calling both me and BBM scumbuddies, and used that as part of the basis for your vote on me. Funnily enough though, you never retracted your claim that BBM and I are scumbuddies... after BBM spent a quarter of a post attacking me. What gives?

JB's vote for Mancer wasn't that great. The reasoning consisted on Mancer's vote being a rehash (it wasn't, really) and putting BBM at L-1 (which it didn't).

I defined "L-1" differently from the hosts - They define it as the number of votes to hard hammer, I defined it as the number of votes to potential lynch.

Mancer's logic is still... very very off in many different areas. I'm not reluctant at all to change my vote.

[Darros]

Oh boy, SF is deciding to run at a decent speed again! I'm too tired to go to school and whatnot so I'll post here before I leave in 20 minutes or so.

Ok some things that caught my eye:

--Bad performance from Mancer by voting for a player (Lucina) who has done approximately nothing and clearly won't be active for a short period of time.

--Frog claims that Rapier is one with a low speed growth, then proceeds to vote for a glorified inactive unit himself.

Baldrick has posted substance though when he first posted. From my point of view when I voted, Shin still hadn't really contributed anything to the thread.

Not cool, man! Something's come up in the family, resulting in me travelling 100 miles to get home. I'll be able to post again in my evening. What a chump! I'm keeping my vote on Mancer until I have a chance to read the thread properly. Sho's contributed very little for someone who's said so much. Sho, any actual opinions other than all that rage?

I had to stick that in a unit converter because what are miles

Alright, hopefully things go smoother for you.

That said, my vote stays for now. I still want to hear where your head is at, other than asking about Sho.

also not a chump/10

Your point on Sho is something I can agree with, I really want to see him post again to hear what he has to say, or if he has anything to say. :/

The whole role speculation thing is getting bothersome. I was doing it at first yeah, but I was getting ahead of myself and being a bit foolish in a couple of my guesses. Remember that PR's aren't enforced, and they can be faked, so we can't go off the style of people's posting ((their PR's)) and their relation to the lore to scumhunt.

[BBM]

Keeping my vote on JB because he called Mancer out at the beginning of his post for jumping on wagons, and he did a similar thing, except without the vote-switching. The points in his last post, against Mancer and Sho, were both made against people with wagons against them, and the points he stated were not very original either. I'm aware that he'd voted for Mancer from before but I think it's still hypocritical.

[MancerNecro]

Add in that he says I spent a "considerable amount of time" on a point that I have only mentioned in one of my posts.

I took quite some time because I had a stronger scum read on BBM until he made his consolidated post that makes him seem more BBM-ish and is slightly more coherent than his other posts.

Also, notice that my claim on both of you being scum buddies was way before BBM had even attacked you in thread at all.

Stop tearing my posts out of context and mixing up the timelines please, JB.

Since you seem to be online though, ##Unvote: Sho.M.the.Tits, ##Vote: Illuminate.

[MancerNecro]

If you guys are preparing for lynches, I'm willing to lynch JB and Sho today.

Depending on her content, I might be willing to vote Lucina as well.

[Jaybee]

Keeping my vote on JB because he called Mancer out at the beginning of his post for jumping on wagons, and he did a similar thing, except without the vote-switching. The points in his last post, against Mancer and Sho, were both made against people with wagons against them, and the points he stated were not very original either. I'm aware that he'd voted for Mancer from before but I think it's still hypocritical.

... What? I've made two votes this entire game - Shin (RVS) and Mancer. Go back and check - Who was the first person to vote for Mancer?

Add in that he says I spent a "considerable amount of time" on a point that I have only mentioned in one of my posts.

I took quite some time because I had a stronger scum read on BBM until he made his consolidated post that makes him seem more BBM-ish and is slightly more coherent than his other posts.

Also, notice that my claim on both of you being scum buddies was way before BBM had even attacked you in thread at all.

Stop tearing my posts out of context and mixing up the timelines please, JB.

Since you seem to be online though, ##Unvote: Sho.M.the.Tits, ##Vote: Illuminate.

... You're voting me because I'm online? Welp, time to go play like I did in ToS mafia again.

Did you see the part where I asked why you never retracted your claim even after BBM started attacking me?

also calling 50 different shades of bullshit

I interpret this as buddying. I'll elaborate more on this later, but right now I actually think that you and BBM might be scum buddies given how you found him bad but decided to vote someone else you had no reads on.

That response from BBM was more coherent, so I'm ##Unvote: BBM to ##Vote: Illuminate.

My reasons are all above, and they actually have been quoted by some players as well, so I think most players won't have missed them.

As JB admitted, he found BBM bad and scummy but did not vote him. I call that scummy behaviour and a little bit of buddying and hard-defending. That, as explained in that post is only a feeling and was never the main basis behind my reads on BBM and JB.

also calling gr9 contradiction on underlined

[MancerNecro]

So you're all "I don't like BBM because of [rehashed reasons]. Hey, I don't like the wagon on BBM, we shouldn't vote him that fast just because we find him scummy. There are so many rehashed reasons even though I repeated others' reasons as well. Vote Mancer cause he's the last person who voted BBM."

Could you explain your vote on me, JB, because it's extremely scummy for a variety of ways and reasons that I'll elaborate on when I need to.

Are you voting me solely because of my vote on BBM? If so, what do you think of the other players on the wagon?

I found you scummy for your misplaced vote on me, which might I mention, never changed and is a huge votepark right now, given that so many things have happened between the other players and that you've never talked about them and are only focusing on responding to parts of my posts where I've responded to you.

The point on you and BBM being scum buddies is still not the main reason why I found you scummy, it's just an added justification to my read on you.

ISO me and tell me what proportion of my posts have I mentioned you and BBM as scum buddies in? Surprisingly little given I supposedly spent "a large amount of time on it", right?

If anything, I think that the fact that you've basically ignored everything else in thread to continue attacking me is scummy, since you're not really contributing to discussion and narrowing town's discussion down.

[MancerNecro]

Your case, JB, is one of vote park on someone then go on to justify your vote on that someone as discussion goes on, which is scummy, since it's very opportunistic and nulls a lot of discussion down.

[MancerNecro]

I'm going to bed soon but I'll try to be back an hour or so before phase end so try not to rush things while I'm asleep.

[Ema Skye]

Alright guys and gals, I'm here again. Thanks for being so willing to let me deal with my life.

I feel really bad for saying this, because it seems like I do it in /every/ Mafia game I'm in, but Mancer is one of my scumspects.

I feel like he's the definition of a bandwagoner, taking advantage of every wagon he can jump on. Seems like he'll do it without much reason for it.

Mancer's Voting History: Shin -> BBM -> JB -> Sho -> Doofina -> Sho -> JB. Ignoring the first one, since it's obviously RVS. Let's look at how these votes landed on the wagons.

BBM Vote: 5th on that Wagon

JB #1: Second on that Wagon. Not that big of a deal.

Sho: Fourth vote on that Wagon.

Me: Third vote on my wagon.

Sho: Fourth vote again

JB: Second vote again. Again, not worth worrying too much about right now in my opinion.

Aside from the bandwagoning, I don't really like how his defense against votes on him is basically "Look at my ISO!". This really bothers me, because it seems like a crappy defense to me. It really strikes me as scummy, because why wouldn't you be comfortable with making a post defending yourself, as opposed to telling people to look through your posts. This bothers me more than all of the vote hoping he's done. You do this every time someone brings up your name Mancer. Why? Why does your ISO matter so much to you?

##Vote: Mancer

Aside from Mancer, the other person I'd be willing to lynch today is Sho, on the grounds that he's been really unhelpful with scumhunting today. I'd kinda like to give him a chance though, and see if it improves as we get more stuff to work with.

[eclipse]

Mancer, this is what you missed. Did you also miss that part where I said to come home before posting?

Remember that PR's aren't enforced, and they can be faked, so we can't go off the style of people's posting ((their PR's)) and their relation to the lore to scumhunt.

This. . .is probably one of the most intelligent things posted in-thread.

I'd rather not lynch JB right now, because I think BBM can't tell the difference between "that was a stupid vote" and "you're scum" (one does not imply the other), and Mancer isn't really answering JB's questions. I wouldn't mind lynching Sho on the basis that he's either being intentionally toxic or is hiding behind a stupid PR - neither of which is conducive to a good mafia game.

Given Mancer's continued hopping, and his non-response to JB's questions, my vote stays.

[Darros]

I'd like a request for votals because I'm too tired to do them myself.

For the weekend, I've received a rather large stack of homework, so I'll be chopping away at that all weekend if I'm inactive.

I still want to hear from Sho, but Mancer, please stop flipping votes. You're all over the place. ;/

[BBM]

Blah, I mixed some stuff up. Sorry I haven't been so distracted this game guys, I've been really busy the last couple weeks. Hopefully things should slow down a bit after tomorrow. I think JB needs to come up with more non-Mancer related stuff but ##Unvote for now.

Mancer is all over the place and once again trying to find associative reads between people who haven't actually flipped yet (ie me and JB), which he does a lot as scum. Also, in one of his more recent posts he said that the initial reason for his JB vote was only partially because of thinking that we might be scumbuddies, and that his main reason was something else. However, this post and this post are the two early posts he made attacking JB.

In the first post he states that he doesn't like how JB voted for him just for being the last person to vote for me. But that's not a bad reason for a vote. It's based on wagon analysis, which is valid and what Eclipse's vote on Lucina was about, yet I didn't see you mention anything about her. Then he states that he'll clarify later about more reasons why the vote is scummy, which he does in the second post. Then the second vote is just based on associative tells between me and JB, which isn't a valid reason for a vote when you don't know either of our alignments for sure. In his recent posts attacking JB, he's either just telling people to look at his early reasons for voting JB, which aren't very good, or saying that JB is voteparking. But again, voteparking in and of itself isn't scummy if you justify keeping your vote there, and if you're not just voting and then doing nothing.

[BBM]

##Vote: Mancer I think that puts him at 6 votes? Dunno.

A bit ;/ that Scorri has had more posts saying that she won't coast off the Miller claim than she's had where she's actually scumhunting and doing what she says she won't do. Would like to hear more from Baldrick because I didn't like his Elie vote much.

[riariadne]

votals

Mancer (6) JB, Shin, Xinnidy, eclipse, Lucina, BBM

Sho (3) Kay, SB, Elieson

Lucina (1) Rapier

BBM (1) scorri

Baldrick (1) Shinori

scorri (1) Sho

JB (1) Mancer

Shin (1) Darros

Elieson (1) Baldrick

Edited March 1, 2013 by Liquid Snake

[SB.]

Firstly, I thought Rein was playing. I guess I'm just used to that activity, tee-hee. On to actual stuff.

I would like to mention that I did not know that Sho was not around because I had seen him make a post just a while before my earlier post.

In other words, I'm ##Unvote: Sho.M.the.Tits to ##Vote: Doofina because I don't like how coasty she's being and I think that having my vote on her would be more productive.

So you said someone's coasting and you're not getting a response out of the person you're voting, so you switch to someone who just outright stated they're not going to be here for a while. This is just the tip of the iceburg, voting JB because he was "online". Have you just been skimming, or deliberately ignored it?

Sho still needs to get some damn content out, or else I'll stay happy with lynching him.

Shinori's last few posts seem to be focused on Baldrick. He hasn't talked about the rest of the game at all since he laid down his Baldrick vote, and even then he did it for reasons that could easily be applied to Sho as well, when he had other reasons to dislike Sho already. Pretty strange.

Between the vote and his next post, there were 3 pages worth of stuff to gain reads on. Then he drops in with this gem.

Eh. I'm still fine with leaving my vote on Baldrick. At least until he says more because he really hasn't said that much and, in my eyes, that vote on Elieson is weak.

So basically you got nothing from those 3 pages at all, except for the fact that Baldrick's Eli vote was weak.

I saw Baldrick posting. Wish he had finished whatever he had been posting. Frankly the Elie vote feels like it was forced to me. Most of the post itself actually just felt forced to me.

Weak, forced, make up your mind. Also, I'd like an explanation for why it felt weak and forced to you.

Frankly he's feeling like noobish scum to me. He's not giving out any thoughts, he isn't actively scum hunting his vote on Elie seems forced, it feels like he was forcing himself to make a post that might help him and his post that he made didn't really hold anything of value. He stated his , in my opinion weak reasoning for voting Elie and his thoughts on Rapier and sho, and frankly they weren't really thoughts of what I was looking for. He has yet to actually put forth thoughts on other players. I don't really count him mentioning rapier as not really being around and him comparing Sho and Elie in like two sentences as him giving thoughts or scum hunting in this game. So until further notice my vote is most likely going to be on him.

There's also this thing about Baldrick not scumhunting, when Shinori hadn't done any for a while outside of Baldrick. Kind of hypocritical.

Rapier caught my eye by stating he only had one scumspect (Sho), followed by voting for Lucina. Okay. Because he wanted to see more from her, yet shouldn't he want that from Sho who's been contributing absolutely nothing all game long? There's also the Mancer townvibes for "effort", which translates to me as his activity. Scum can be active too, you know?

Shin should really drop in and weigh in on things when he can, although it may be a bit late since we have about 90 minutes or so.

Sho keeps my vote for now and until he does something, since a Mancer lynch is secured.

[MancerNecro]

Guys, you really do not want to lynch me right now.

Firstly, I've been hopping over my own scum reads. Placing my vote on someone who's not here is unlikely to help as it will not get any reactions from them. Thus, I've been trying to get my vote over on to somebody who's rin the thread at that point in time rather than on someone inactive. I've been failing at that though, since everyone who I voted seems to go off right as I vote them.

Secondly, I find BBM a little bit hypocritical and opportunistic with his vote. BBM's vote history has been hasty vote on Baldrick to votepark on JB to opportunistic jump to me while sheeping other players. This strengthens my BBM/JB theory, but I'll drop that for now.

@eclipse: I think I forgot to respond to you, but I don't remember your question as of now.

Just so you guys know, I try to get associative reads as town too, in fact, in games where I'm scum, I've not even gotten a single associative read out so BBM's meta is a little wrong.

Lastly, I'll claim if needed, but I'm going to try to get the votes off me without claiming first.

[MancerNecro]

Just saying, BBM, that second post was not a clarification of the first. Your point about JB's vote being valid is hypocritical because I believe you voted him for that vote, saying that you did not like it. So by your logic, you're scum as well?

[BBM]

Like I said, voteparks are scummy when you vote someone and then proceed to do nothing the rest of the phase. I was contributing to the best of my ability despite voting JB. My vote on you also wasn't sheeping, because I didn't cite the same reasons as other people for my vote, and I'd been attacking you from earlier anyways, while waiting for JB to respond. And as for the meta, I'll point you to SF2M, where you jumped to calling me and Eclipse scumbuddies on D1 while we were attacking each other.

Anyways I'm going to be busy for a few hours now, so yeah.

[MancerNecro]

Elie, you're hugely misrepresenting why I voted for Baldrick.

I voted for Baldrick firstly because I didn't like how he voted for the Miller claim. I was going to unvote, but then Baldrick told me his reason for the Scorri vote. His reason for the vote was that he didn't want her to coast off the Miller claim. I kept my vote on him for this because he was voting Scorri for coasting, something she hadn't even done yet. It was something she might do in the future. Since I disliked this reason for the vote , I kept my vote on him (does that answer your question, Lucy?). My original reason for the vote wasn't that Scorri didn't react to the vote, it was that it was a vote that was unlikely to get anybody to react, because singular votes in RVS don't cause much reactions to the vote, at least from the person whom you're actually voting. It got a reaction from me, yes, but that was because I didn't like the vote. Placing bad votes isn't a good way to get people to react, if you're town. Not because they won't react, but because they'll be suspicious of you, which is bad for town because if people are focusing on you, they're not focusing on scum. Example: some of Elie's play in his earlier games as town where he'd purposely act suspicious in RVS to get out of it quicker.

Anyways, JB's reaction to my wagon was scummy. He agreed with the reasons behind the wagon by quoting one of my posts and rehashing the points that other people had made. Then he said that some of the people on my wagon were scummy for simply voting due to rehashed reasons.

##Unvote, ##Vote: JB

Proof of BBM,'s contradiction and hypocrisy.

[Shinori]

You gonna vote me over it SB? You just stated all these reasoning's why you think I could be scum but aren't really doing anything about it.

I stated thoughts on a few other players actually. Specifically the ones I thought needed to be stated by. If I didn't state anyone it's probably because I saw no reason to post something towards them.

Specifically I asked sho to stop doing something because it was scummy. I said Lucy needs to post more and she commented as to why she hasn't been posting. The thoughts I felt that I needed to state had been stated mostly in my catch up post.

WRT the vote from Baldrick on to Elie: I already explained how it was weak and felt forced. Frankly I didn't see the reasoning at all for the vote onto Elieson. Did you see the reasoning? Did you feel that the vote on Elieson was strong? Did you feel that his vote was better suited on Elieson than someone else? For example sho who Baldrick had also commented on. I'm pretty sure Baldrick even stated that Sho and Elie were doing the same thing but Baldrick was doing it worse, so then why did he choose to vote Elie over Sho? PArt of his reasoning for voting elie was that he wanted Elie's thoughts on the rest of the game, basically it seemed that he thought elie was tunneling I guess, when if you compare I'm also pretty sure Sho has done worse in that aspect as well. So I see his Elie vote as extremely weak and forced. It felt like he was trying to vote someone and get thoughts out to appease me and the other players in this game that might have had some of the same general thoughts. And since he has yet to really change my view on him my vote stays on him.

However I don't think I really like how some of the votes are building up on Mancer, specifically Lucy's. Going over Lucy's small ISO it consists of a BMB vote that was late on the wagon. And now a Mancer vote which just seems really easy. I'd feel much safer leaving mancer be for the moment because in my opinion it seems like it could be a really easy misslynch.

@Lucy: Who are your other scum reads beside Sho and Mancer?

[MancerNecro]

I recommend going for BBM right now because of what I just picked out. That post I quoted earlier says that JB's earlier vote was scummy even though BBM has just said a page ago that JB's reaction and vote were valid.

It seems like BBM changed his stance just so it'd be convenient for him to lynch me.

##Unvote: Illuminate

##Vote: BBM

[MancerNecro]

Guuuys, where are you?