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FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List


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Frederick doesn't need forges though. His growths are good enough to stabilize him all game. He might need a little bit of hand holding lategame, but most of your units needed that earlygame so it's hard to hold it against him. It's not like he he suddenly drops off a cliff and all of his contributions become worthless.

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It's very easy to hold it against him. Earlygame units pay off their early investment by being awesome in mid-lategame. Frederick never repays his investment: the opportunity cost of training him is no training for a unit that's probably better than he is. You're arguing for feeding kills not as a path to better performance, but from the perspective of fairness (which won't fly).

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Pretty sure that Fred eiter KOs or assists in KOing enemies reliably for longer than say Miriel or Panne

With less effort and more yield (efficiency

Sure he saps exp from units. He saps exp from units that don't deserve it and uses it where say Avatar is fine on his own, Chrom does well too, etc etc.

Edited by Elieson
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Frederick's growths aren't 0, so of course he's going to improve. And Frederick doesn't need to be fed kills. He just kills them on his own, or with a pairup partner.

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I don't think that Frederick gets enough EXP from incidental earlygame kills and random Dual Attacks to stay ahead of the curve in terms of stats. His growths are alright, but his EXP gain is garbage, so it takes more effort to get the same results.

Not even Chrom can get away with this, and he's probably the best Pair-up that there is. If he just sits in someone's pocket all day going "HAVE ANOTHER" and also gets random kills where possible, he's not usable as a lategame Lead unit even with his accelerated growth as compared to Fred.

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Frederick isn't only killing things earlygame though, he can do it all game long if you choose for him to do it. In one of my draft runs he's level 14 by Chapter 16, and even though he's down a few points of speed from where he should be he's still a solid contributor.

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Frederick isn't only killing things earlygame though, he can do it all game long if you choose for him to do it. In one of my draft runs he's level 14 by Chapter 16, and even though he's down a few points of speed from where he should be he's still a solid contributor.

That just makes the comparison even more straightforward: most of the growth units in this game advance twice as quickly than him or faster, and he gives you "solid contributor" status in return. Is this the kind of performance that we're supposed to expect from an S-tier unit? The training of whom probably prevents two other growth units from being included?
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It is when he's largely the reason that your growth units don't get slaughtered pre ch6

Uhh... this isn't Lunatic mode, Chrom and company can hold their own without Frederick

Frederick just speeds the early-game process up

Edited by Merry Sioux
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^ That's my point: he's being included purely on that basis, which is silly.

What's best for Frederick may be to train him, but what's best for the army is probably to put him in someone's pocket as soon as Sully or Stahl or whomever can replace him in the lineup, since they do more with less. the problem I have, is that being invaluable until Ch7-ish when the kids take over, doesn't sound like S-tier performance to me.

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But it isnt until Chapter 7...he remains relevant for longer, sometimes up to the endgame, especially if youre using Sumia or Cordelia.

Edited by Peekayell
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Uhh... this isn't Lunatic mode, Chrom and company can hold their own without Fredick

Fredick just speeds the earlygame process up

Derp dunno why I thought this was lunatic :|

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Stahl and Sully aren't killing things that well by Chapter 7. And even if somehow they are, you can't call Fred useless outside of pairup after that, it's just not true.

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But it isnt until Chapter 7...he remains relevant for longer, sometimes up to the endgame, especially if youre using Sumia or Cordelia.

What's the function of this "relevance" for Frederick? In realistic terms, keeping him up to par is going to cost you, say, a trained Cordelia and Stahl. Wouldn't you rather have two units late instead of one? By the time that either of them get to Frederick's level of leveling speed, they are vastly outstripping his performance (and the other way around: by the time that they get to his level of prowess, they are growing more quickly). Edited by Interceptor
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The only way to make Fred's exp gain manageable for him to keep up is to second seal him into a tier 1 unit, but then he loses most of the bonuses he has as a pre-promote and has pretty average stats for a level 1 unit. I can definitely see Fred moving down into A, he just isn't as good as other units and lacks the key earlygame strats that other Jeigans are needed for to make up for it.

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In my run I'm using both Stahl and Cordelia fine along with Frederick. Maybe you lose out on one growth unit by using Frederick, but in return you get a better Frederick, so it balances out.

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holy shit sully is the top of s tier why :/

a majority or the units you're saying "take over" fredericks role only can do it with a pair up from him. Sully has nowhere near enough durability to be in the frontlines for a long time, and Frederick provides her the perfect bonuses to do so. Stahl really needs a support from avatar or Cordelia (who is pretty late). Even avatar likes the defence early on. Most of the tier one units are pretty much non factors unless they're paired up with like Chrom or someone with great bonuses

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Maybe my view is skewed by my recent Lunatic run in which Frederick could not manage to keep up no matter what, but I've never seen Frederick be better than a support bot past Ch 13. And that doesn't quite sound like S tier quality when he isn't even hugely relevant early game despite being the best unit at the time.

Sully's durability in hard mode doesn't start great but pretty quickly becomes a non-factor.

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In my Lunatic run Fred was amazing for the first few chapters, but by Chapter 11 he was too weak to use (even though he had been used a lot because lunatic) so I used him as a meatshield and he died. It doubt it's too different on hard.

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This isn't LM people..

Though it does stand to reason that if he falls off by chapter 13 in LM where he's getting a lot more experience he won't last much longer in hard mode..

In my run I'm using both Stahl and Cordelia fine along with Frederick. Maybe you lose out on one growth unit by using Frederick, but in return you get a better Frederick, so it balances out.

But that growth unit stays on the team all game while Frederick drops off by chapter 14 or 15..

Frederick isn't only killing things earlygame though, he can do it all game long if you choose for him to do it. In one of my draft runs he's level 14 by Chapter 16, and even though he's down a few points of speed from where he should be he's still a solid contributor.

That's drafting. In drafting extreme favoritism and massive amounts of resources that are typically spread fairly evenly go to two or three of your units.

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In my Lunatic run Fred was amazing for the first few chapters, but by Chapter 11 he was too weak to use (even though he had been used a lot because lunatic) so I used him as a meatshield and he died. It doubt it's too different on hard.

Hard and lunatic are on completely different levels. Fred should never die, at the very least (and neitehr should any other of our units). Sully is good, but I can see Panne being better. Don't really want to elaborate on that very much though atm.

I also want to suggest Flavia > Basilio as her speed is really key, Basilio doesn't double in lunatic at least, dunno about hard. If he does then I'll drop this.

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Hard and lunatic are on completely different levels. Fred should never die, at the very least (and neitehr should any other of our units). Sully is good, but I can see Panne being better. Don't really want to elaborate on that very much though atm.

I also want to suggest Flavia > Basilio as her speed is really key, Basilio doesn't double in lunatic at least, dunno about hard. If he does then I'll drop this.

On Flavia vs Basilio, we don't have much in the way of enemy stats, so we can't really judge.

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