FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Shadow Mir]

morgan should be easy enough to tier in theory, but the problem would lie in how you would tier all 192647 morgans without the list looking awful. I think if we could have a clause added to the OP that shitty pairing setups are ruled out, we could throw in all the kids without too much trouble.

I highly doubt tiering the children would NOT wind up being a clusterfuck because among other things, some parents don't exactly have an easy time getting married.

[Florete]

I agree that Morgan ought to be easy enough to tier. Just about any parent s/he can have that would result in him/her being recruitable as soon as Ch 13 is done will have similar enough results. I think the bigger question is what you want Morgan to do after being recruited, rather than the circumstances of recruiting. However, it would create problems if arguments came down to specifics rather than general things, because you can never really be sure what skillset and weapon levels Morgan will have. Still, Morgan should easily be able to stick around (above or below) Lucina (Avatar).

Cynthia should also be easy enough to add in the same way Lucina is on there. As far as different dads it would probably be something like Chrom/Avatar > Frederick > Henry >= Gaius.

[Sol Hiryu]

I think if we want to start tiering children, Morgan in particular, we're going to have to hash out what kind of conditions we're assuming for the children so we can set the standard now instead of making things up later. Do we only assume a certain amount of children per playthrough? Would children exist in a void when compared to other children units (a la FE10 Transfer characters)? Would parents get credit for the kid's skill inheritance?

I'd be fine with tiering Morgan so long as we got conditions down for the other children.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Sol Hiryu

[Shadow Mir]

I agree that Morgan ought to be easy enough to tier. Just about any parent s/he can have that would result in him/her being recruitable as soon as Ch 13 is done will have similar enough results. I think the bigger question is what you want Morgan to do after being recruited, rather than the circumstances of recruiting. However, it would create problems if arguments came down to specifics rather than general things, because you can never really be sure what skillset and weapon levels Morgan will have. Still, Morgan should easily be able to stick around (above or below) Lucina (Avatar).

Cynthia should also be easy enough to add in the same way Lucina is on there. As far as different dads it would probably be something like Chrom/Avatar > Frederick > Henry >= Gaius.

I dunno... It's hard enough getting anywhere with other discussion, for one, and second, I'm thinking Avatar!Lucina might need to drop.

I think if we want to start tiering children, Morgan in particular, we're going to have to hash out what kind of conditions we're assuming for the children so we can set the standard now instead of making things up later. Do we only assume a certain amount of children per playthrough? Would children exist in a void when compared to other children units (a la FE10 Transfer characters)? Would parents get credit for the kid's skill inheritance?

I'd be fine with tiering Morgan so long as we got conditions down for the other children.

I dion't have any real clue how we're going to tier the children without it being a complete mess...

[riariadne]

I don't think pairing kids is as hard as people are making it to be. There'll be a few parents better than the rest (Avatar is great for everyone) but as long as you assume that the player doesn't make idiot pairings most parents won't be that different

[Shadow Mir]

I don't think pairing kids is as hard as people are making it to be. There'll be a few parents better than the rest (Avatar is great for everyone) but as long as you assume that the player doesn't make idiot pairings most parents won't be that different

As I see it, the big issue with tiering the children is that some parents won't have an easy time getting married (particularly Lissa, Maribelle, Olivia, and Cherche).

[riariadne]

Then their kids will be lower ranked for having less availability. Brady/Inigo/Owain are pretty bad anyway.

[Florete]

I think if we want to start tiering children, Morgan in particular, we're going to have to hash out what kind of conditions we're assuming for the children so we can set the standard now instead of making things up later. Do we only assume a certain amount of children per playthrough? Would children exist in a void when compared to other children units (a la FE10 Transfer characters)? Would parents get credit for the kid's skill inheritance?

I'd be fine with tiering Morgan so long as we got conditions down for the other children.

4-6 kids per playthrough should be a reasonable estimate. Sibling situations aside (e.g. Avatar!Lucina and Morgan can exist together), I could see children being considered in a void for ease of judgment. Parents would receive no credit for anything the kids do.

I dunno... It's hard enough getting anywhere with other discussion, for one, and second, I'm thinking Avatar!Lucina might need to drop.

I dion't have any real clue how we're going to tier the children without it being a complete mess...

I meant that in relation to wherever Avatar!Lucina may be, not in regards to her current position.

As I see it, the big issue with tiering the children is that some parents won't have an easy time getting married (particularly Lissa, Maribelle, Olivia, and Cherche).

Taking a while to get married just means it takes longer to recruit the child, which means they'll have to make up for availability. If anything, that's already taken into account in the Kid list.

On first look, I can see: Morgan bottom of S tier or top of A tier; Yarne, Kjelle, and Cynthia somewhere in B tier; Owain, Gerome, Laurent, Severa, and Nah in C tier; Brady, Noire, and Inigo in D tier.

[riariadne]

I fel like most of those are pretty generous. Cynthia in particular is weird because her Paralogue is in a stupid place. She could probably be listed as Early Cynthia (if you're using Cordelia or Lissa) and Late Cynthia (if you're not).

[Florete]

I fel like most of those are pretty generous. Cynthia in particular is weird because her Paralogue is in a stupid place. She could probably be listed as Early Cynthia (if you're using Cordelia or Lissa) and Late Cynthia (if you're not).

I was thinking it would probably be near the bottom of B tier, could also see the higher end of C tier. I did forget that hers takes a while to reach if you're not using Lissa or Cordelia, though. For the purpose of one entry, I'd say it's reasonable to assume either Lissa or Cordelia is also getting married.

[riariadne]

Yeah that doesn't seem too bad. There should probably be an F Tier made as well, the gaps between the really bad kids (Owain/Inigo/Brady) and Flavia are pretty big

Edited May 10, 2013 by Liquid Snake

[ZemZem]

Yeah, Owain's not too fantastic at all. He shouldn't be in C tier.

I mean, he has some utility right now in my current file as a Rally Strength bot (Vaike's his father), but that's it. It sucks for Brady, Owain, and Inigo that their mothers are the most annoying to level up.

[General Horace]

owain's biggest issue is lissa's stats and skills aren't very good, and she's not a very good pairup partner in the first place, although the latter fact shouldn't really be counted against him.

[SB.]

I don't think kids should be anywhere above mid A tier with at least half the game gone before they arrive.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Honestly, I don't like the idea of integrating kids into the tier list. I do like the idea of noting which tier the kids would "probably" be in on average, considering good and likely pairups. Comparing them to other units in a head-to-head manner is hard, but an approximation at the bottom of where the kids would fit in tier-wise makes sense.

[General Horace]

I don't think kids should be anywhere above mid A tier with at least half the game gone before they arrive.

with that in mind why is Lucina in S (a point multiple others have also brought up)

[Anouleth]

4-6 kids per playthrough should be a reasonable estimate. Sibling situations aside (e.g. Avatar!Lucina and Morgan can exist together), I could see children being considered in a void for ease of judgment. Parents would receive no credit for anything the kids do.

I meant that in relation to wherever Avatar!Lucina may be, not in regards to her current position.

Taking a while to get married just means it takes longer to recruit the child, which means they'll have to make up for availability. If anything, that's already taken into account in the Kid list.

On first look, I can see: Morgan bottom of S tier or top of A tier; Yarne, Kjelle, and Cynthia somewhere in B tier; Owain, Gerome, Laurent, Severa, and Nah in C tier; Brady, Noire, and Inigo in D tier.

Yarne has another tough Paralogue and no weapon ranks. I don't see Kjelle being a tier and a bit above Henry, but I don't know what kind of stats you expect out of her either.

I don't get how Brady would be in D Tier. If nothing else, Gaius!Brady should be higher, being a servicable staffbot with 7 move and Demoiselle.

[Chiki]

He isn't going to change the tier list even if the rest of the world doesn't agree with him.

Kids should be in the tier list because they're units just like anyone else who can contribute just like anyone else. One could consider every potential parent of the child and tier them.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Olwen

[Florete]

Yarne has another tough Paralogue and no weapon ranks. I don't see Kjelle being a tier and a bit above Henry, but I don't know what kind of stats you expect out of her either.

I don't get how Brady would be in D Tier. If nothing else, Gaius!Brady should be higher, being a servicable staffbot with 7 move and Demoiselle.

True on Yarne, he probably needs to go down in the kid list, especially since (and I just remembered this) he doesn't even get Wyvern Rider automatically from his mother. Henry seems expected to go up anyway, but he comes so late he's basically going to be competing with Kjelle directly, and since the kids tend to turn out better, I don't see the situation looking great for Henry.

Brady as a staffbot is useless. What need have we for another staffbot after Lissa, Maribelle, Libra, and Anna (and anyone else who may have promoted and gained staves like Miriel)? Not to mention his mother is among the tougher parents to marry off. I still think he should be lower.

[Zkirsche]

I'm actually inclined to agree with Olwen, but I do understand that it is messy. We should take things one step at a time or things will never get done, so we should decide on whereabouts the kids would be placed first, then do the rest later if we decide that it isn't more trouble than it's worth.

I'm more interested in this massive Henry post which is supposedly coming up, I guess I'll have to rush through Valm to get enemy stats for mid game.

Edited May 10, 2013 by kirsche

[PKL]

As I see it, the big issue with tiering the children is that some parents won't have an easy time getting married (particularly Lissa, Maribelle, Olivia, and Cherche).

Cherche is not that hard to marry. She could marry Gaius in my playlog by Chapter 17. Though I chose not to do it because I didn't want Gerome's map. It's worth noting that Gaius! Gerome can have both Deliverer and +1move or lockpick. Which is pretty cool :P.

[Shadow Mir]

Cherche is not that hard to marry. She could marry Gaius in my playlog by Chapter 17. Though I chose not to do it because I didn't want Gerome's map. It's worth noting that Gaius! Gerome can have both Deliverer and +1move or lockpick. Which is pretty cool :P.

My mention of Cherche was more on the basis of her coming late than anything else.

[Anouleth]

True on Yarne, he probably needs to go down in the kid list, especially since (and I just remembered this) he doesn't even get Wyvern Rider automatically from his mother. Henry seems expected to go up anyway, but he comes so late he's basically going to be competing with Kjelle directly, and since the kids tend to turn out better, I don't see the situation looking great for Henry.

Brady as a staffbot is useless. What need have we for another staffbot after Lissa, Maribelle, Libra, and Anna (and anyone else who may have promoted and gained staves like Miriel)? Not to mention his mother is among the tougher parents to marry off. I still think he should be lower.

Better to be a fifth string staff user than to be a 25th string combat unit like Owain, Severa, or Gerome (who you said should go a tier above him).

[Florete]

Better to be a fifth string staff user than to be a 25th string combat unit like Owain, Severa, or Gerome (who you said should go a tier above him).

I disagree. Staff use in general isn't very valuable in Hard mode, and by the time Brady comes its value has only weakened to the point where you probably will only care to have one for emergencies. Seriously, just look at where Lissa and Maribelle already are on the list. I'd prefer a kid that can be fed kills for a map and turn out to be among the better combatants on my team as a result.

[Anouleth]

I disagree. Staff use in general isn't very valuable in Hard mode, and by the time Brady comes its value has only weakened to the point where you probably will only care to have one for emergencies. Seriously, just look at where Lissa and Maribelle already are on the list. I'd prefer a kid that can be fed kills for a map and turn out to be among the better combatants on my team as a result.

Having a kid that can be fed kills for a map and turn out good isn't that valuable either, especially when they show up in Chapter 16 and 18 respectively (assuming you can beat Gerome's Paralogue immediately). Maybe you should look at the tier list and note that as low as Lissa and Maribelle are, they're still above Donnel.