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FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List


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Second seals also seem pretty common. There are a couple of enemies which drop them, chests with them in and there's bound to be an Anna shop which opens up with one in it. And this is all before chapter 16 when they become buyable anyway.

First off, Anna shops are banned. Second, there aren't THAT many Second Seals available before chapter 16.

Edited by Levant Fortner
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Also, I cringe everytime someone mentions nosferatu ._.. So overrated.

Nosferatu is transformative for a unit like Miriel (high Mag and Spd, low Def and Res). Without Nosferatu, Miriel has a terrible enemy phase. With it, she has a great enemy phase. Sorecerer Miriel has the offense to ORKO most units with Nosferatu (Focus, Anathema, and Vengeance let her ORKO tougher foes). Nosferatu lets her take on an infinite number of enemies (excluding Counter Warriors, Longbow Snipers, Mire Sorcerers, and enemies with Killer weapons).

That said, Miriel does have early-game troubles. The only units who want her pair-up bonuses are Avatar, Lissa, and Maribelle. But Miriel can't grow with a Lissa or Maribelle pair-up. Avatar has a lot of great pair-up options, but one shouldn't discount Miriel. Miriel's Mag boost gives Avatar the Atk he needs to 2HKO all enemies at 1-2 range. With or without an Avatar pair-up it's tough sledding getting Miriel to gain levels. 1-2 range makes it easy for her to get in on the action, but she doubles little without a Spd pair-up and she has poor durability no matter what. Come mid-game, Miriel has viable support partners in Libra and Henry.

Vaike has an easier time getting experience early on, but he's still in a tough spot. None of his supports boost Spd and Def (except Sully, who doesn't boost Spd enough to get Vaike doubling). If he gets the +Spd support he needs to double, then he has to deal with that 5 Def and 0 Res at base. This limits his enemy phase for quite a while. But while Vaike's early-game is a little better than Miriel's, his mid-game is worse. While Miriel can re-class to Dark Mage and Nos-tank by C14, Vaike needs to get to level 5 Hero before his enemy phase becomes close to as good.

It's a tough call between these two. Maybe Vaike ought to get the nod, because this game throws +Spd supports at him - making him easier to train.

Edit: On the topic of Second Seals before C16.

Chapter 8: Renown

Chapter 8: Village

Chapter 12: Enemy Drop

Paralogue 12: Chest

Chapter 15: Village

Paralogue 5: Enemy Drop

Assuming we recruit Morgan, there are 5-6 Second Seals available before C16. If Lissa was married, we're likely to recruit Owain in Paralogue 5 before C16. The first two Second Seals are the most valuable, and I wouldn't suggest that we use them on Miriel. The C12 and P12 Second Seals are moderately valuable, and I would suggest using one of these to re-class Miriel to Dark Mage. The C15 and P5 Second Seals are very nearly worth 2500G, because purchaseable Second Seals are right around the corner.

Edited by aku chi
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Vaike has an easier time getting experience early on, but he's still in a tough spot. None of his supports boost Spd and Def (except Sully, who doesn't boost Spd enough to get Vaike doubling). If he gets the +Spd support he needs to double, then he has to deal with that 5 Def and 0 Res at base.

He also has 29 base HP with a guaranteed proc each level and a 50% Def growth. Vaike's Hard mode durability problems are really overrated aside from against mages, which I agree he should avoid most of the time.

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Miriel is probably the best pair up option for +SPD MU. You'll stop needing Chrom support to double by Ch3/4 at the latest, and after that Miriel's giving +8 damage on every attack BEFORE supports/double digit stats.

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Miriel is probably the best pair up option for +SPD MU. You'll stop needing Chrom support to double by Ch3/4 at the latest, and after that Miriel's giving +8 damage on every attack BEFORE supports/double digit stats.

That would hurt her exp, in which case she wont get to dark mage in time. Ricken must be a godlike +spd avatar pair up partner too with that logic.

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That would hurt her exp, in which case she wont get to dark mage in time. Ricken must be a godlike +spd avatar pair up partner too with that logic.

I wasn't necessarily considering DM, but she definitely makes better use of the exp she would be getting compared to Ricken (main problem is his abysmal speed.)

The modus operandi for character comparisons at the moment seems to be "do test runs", especially since we don't have most enemy stats/growth rates. They'd be easy to compare since they join at the same time and whatnot.

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That would hurt her exp, in which case she wont get to dark mage in time. Ricken must be a godlike +spd avatar pair up partner too with that logic.

It's not difficult to train Miriel with an Avatar support. Whenever enemy phase isn't needed (generally on the last couple turns of a map), Miriel can grab the player phase kill. With +Mag and +Spd from the Avatar, Miriel can ORKO most anything. This doesn't hurt Avatar much, because Avatar is likely to level cap by C8 anyway. I did this on my first playthrough, BTW. Foolishly, I promoted Miriel to Dark Knight. She had an arc of usefulness due to the +7 Def, but the swords were worthless and she just wasn't durable enough lategame. I should have gone Dark Mage -> Sorcerer.
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I don't really understand how Ricken is so far apart from Miriel. His speed is fixable with tonics and the like, which is what people seem to assume we're doing for Nowi. He'll be probably the same level as a trained Miriel upon joining, and can help out fine on his join chapter with meaty chip damage from Elwind and a good starting position.

Speaking on enemy stats, I started logging them.

[spoiler=Minimum Stats]Prologue

Name         Class       LV  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Mov Weapon Rank Equipment     Skills
Garrick      Barbarian   3   25  10  0   6   9   3   3   0   -   Axe C       Hand Axe      Gamble
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  5   0   7   8   6   1   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Avoid +10)
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  5   0   7   8   6   1   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Avoid +10)
Ruffian      Mage        1   17  0   6   4   5   4   0   1   5   Tome C      Thunder       (Focus)
Ruffian      Mage        1   17  0   6   4   5   4   0   1   5   Tome C      Wind          (Focus)
Ruffian      Barbarian   1   21  7   0   3   4   3   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Gamble)
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  5   0   7   8   3   1   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Avoid +10)
Ruffian      Barbarian   1   21  7   0   3   4   6   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Gamble)

Chapter 1

Name         Class       LV  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Mov Weapon Rank Equipment     Skills
Risen Chief  Fighter     3   29  11  0   10  7   7   4   0   5   Axe C       Hand Axe      HP +5 
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal, HP +5)
Risen        Mercenary   1   20  8   0   10  9   4   2   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Patience)
Risen        Archer      1   19  7   0   10  7   3   1   0   5   Bow C       Bronze Bow    (Prescience)
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal, HP +5)
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal, HP +5)
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal, HP +5)
Risen        Mercenary   1   20  8   0   10  9   4   2   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Patience)

[spoiler=Maximum Stats]Prologue

Name         Class       LV  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Mov Weapon Rank Equipment     Skills
Garrick      Barbarian   3   25  10  0   6   9   3   3   0   -   Axe C       Hand Axe      Gamble
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  6   0   8   9   7   1   1   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Avoid +10)
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  6   0   8   9   7   1   1   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Avoid +10)
Ruffian      Mage        1   17  0   7   5   6   5   0   2   5   Tome C      Thunder       (Focus)
Ruffian      Mage        1   17  0   7   5   6   5   0   2   5   Tome C      Wind          (Focus)
Ruffian      Barbarian   1   21  8   0   4   5   4   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Gamble)
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  6   0   8   9   7   1   1   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Avoid +10)
Ruffian      Barbarian   1   21  8   0   4   5   4   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Gamble)

Chapter 1

Name         Class       LV  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Mov Weapon Rank Equipment     Skills
Risen Chief  Fighter     3   29  11  0   10  7   7   4   0   5   Axe C       Hand Axe      HP +5 
Risen        Fighter     1   22  10  0   7   7   6   2   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal)
Risen        Mercenary   1   21  8   0   11  9   5   3   1   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Patience)
Risen        Archer      1   20  7   0   11  8   4   2   1   5   Bow C       Bronze Bow    (not sure)
Risen        Fighter     1   22  10  0   7   7   6   2   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal)
Risen        Fighter     1   22  10  0   7   7   6   2   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal)
Risen        Fighter     1   22  10  0   7   7   6   2   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    (Zeal)
Risen        Mercenary   1   21  8   0   11  9   5   3   1   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  (Patience)
Edited by Serious Bananas
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I don't really understand how Ricken is so far apart from Miriel. His speed is fixable with tonics and the like, which is what people seem to assume we're doing for Nowi. He'll be probably the same level as a trained Miriel upon joining, and can help out fine on his join chapter with meaty chip damage from Elwind and a good starting position.

Speaking on enemy stats, I started logging them.

Prologue

Name         Class       LV  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Mov Weapon Rank Equipment     Skills
Garrick      Barbarian   3   25  10  0   6   9   3   3   0   -   Axe C       Hand Axe      Gamble
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  5   0   7   8   6   1   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  Random
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  5   0   7   8   6   1   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  Random
Ruffian      Mage        1   17  0   6   4   5   4   0   1   5   Tome C      Thunder       Random
Ruffian      Mage        1   17  0   6   4   5   4   0   1   5   Tome C      Wind          Random
Ruffian      Barbarian   1   21  7   0   3   4   3   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    Random
Ruffian      Myrmidon    1   19  5   0   7   8   3   1   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  Random
Ruffian      Barbarian   1   21  7   0   3   5   6   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    Random

Chapter 1

Name         Class       LV  HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Mov Weapon Rank Equipment     Skills
Risen Chief  Fighter     3   29  11  0   10  7   7   4   0   5   Axe C       Hand Axe      HP +5 
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    Random
Risen        Mercenary   1   20  8   0   10  9   4   2   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  Random
Risen        Archer      1   19  7   0   10  7   3   1   0   5   Bow C       Bronze Bow    Random
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    Random
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    Random
Risen        Fighter     1   21  9   0   6   6   5   1   0   5   Axe C       Bronze Axe    Random
Risen        Mercenary   1   20  8   0   10  9   4   2   0   5   Sword C     Bronze Sword  Random

They're likely not perfect, due to variation. I plotted the lowest stats I'd ever seen that enemy type have. Sometimes the norm is +1 higher than the stats here.

My idea is to get a range of stats going, and instead of saying "Random" state the possible skills.

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First off, Anna shops are banned. Second, there aren't THAT many Second Seals available before chapter 16.

Oh right I forgot that this list banned them. I don't really understand why they were banned, considering that they do appear and exist in the game, but w/e my point doesn't really change, we don't need THAT many reclasses and a reclass on Miriel is worth it considering how good it makes her enemy phase.

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Oh right I forgot that this list banned them. I don't really understand why they were banned, considering that they do appear and exist in the game, but w/e my point doesn't really change, we don't need THAT many reclasses and a reclass on Miriel is worth it considering how good it makes her enemy phase.

Serious Bananas pretty much nailed what I would've said on merchants, but as far as second seals go, I'd say Miriel has a good deal of competition.

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They're banned because of the random nature of them making it hard to argue with them, I think.

They're random, true, but they're not non-existant, so they should be factored in. Skirmishes even more so, as unlike with specific items in a shop, the exp from skirmishes shouldn't deviate too wildly for it to be a problem to handwave a little bit and just assume an extra level here and there, which will really help some characters catch up/hit there tipping point earlier.

I'd say Miriel has a good deal of competition.

Other than Panne/Sully, who?

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Avatar to Peg/Dark Mage

Chrom to Cavalier

Fred to something that has wings

Also possibly worth noting Lon'qu to Wyvern, even is it kills his sword tank, and if you're using Donny/Virion for whatever reason they want out of their base classes asap.

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They're banned because of the random nature of them making it hard to argue with them, I think.

When discussing resource competition, you already take into account a certain probability that the character in question might not get it. So I don't see the problem with taking into account the probability of the Second Seal becoming available for purchase either. I guess the issue would be the impact of real time on the chance of a Second Seal appearing...

Avatar to Peg/Dark Mage

Chrom to Cavalier

Fred to something that has wings

Also possibly worth noting Lon'qu to Wyvern, even is it kills his sword tank, and if you're using Donny/Virion for whatever reason they want out of their base classes asap.

I don't know how much weight is given to these possibilities, but there's also the possibility of making Vaike or Gregor into Barbarians, or turning Gaius into a Myrmidon or Fighter.

Point is, there are plenty of good alternative ways for a Second Seal to be useful even if we don't use Miriel. Somebody is going to want it. Miriel might get more out of it (especially because she seems pretty crap without it), but it still has a cost associated with it.

Edited by Anouleth
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No Anna shops makes comparing unit's performances much cleaner though. It's a lot easier to argue assuming that there are a finite number of resources in play, and can be applied to any run.

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Morgan, Kjelle and Lucina are all in the running for SS right when they join as well and are either free or come in easy Paralouges available right off the bat. I know we aren't tiering them, but they still benefit heavily from one especially if you do something like Donnel!Morgan.

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They're banned because of the random nature of them making it hard to argue with them, I think.

As far as Second Seals or Master Seals, you can basically guarantee that you'll get access to at least one by the time Avatar reaches level 20. I'd agree with those saying they shouldn't be discounted completely as far as what you can get that isn't too random in nature. Stat boosters, for example, won't be coming until later.

No Anna shops makes comparing unit's performances much cleaner though. It's a lot easier to argue assuming that there are a finite number of resources in play, and can be applied to any run.

It makes it repeatable, but inaccurate. And it can't be applied to just any run, only a run that follows these rules.

On the same subject, I also don't understand why shopping from Spotpass teams isn't allowed. There is not even anything random about that.

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