Da Bear Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I have a quick question in this list are we taking into account that people might do something dumb like Chrom x Maribelle or Gaius x Sumia or assuming the player makes smart choices like Nowi x Lon'qu or Stahl x Cordelia? The difference could be pretty big in several places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I'm pretty sure smart pairings are implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) I'm pretty sure smart pairings are implied. I think so too but then people say that you can't assume stuff like Stahl x Cordelia or Chrom x Sully even though it's pretty much the best all of them can do. Edited May 7, 2013 by bearclaw13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Its just you can't assume like say, Sully will be paired with Chrom every time she's in play - avatar and Sumia are good pairings too. Doesn't stop her from taking Frederick or Stahl though, as opposed to like, Ricken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Its just you can't assume like say, Sully will be paired with Chrom every time she's in play - avatar and Sumia are good pairings too. Doesn't stop her from taking Frederick or Stahl though, as opposed to like, Ricken. I can see Chrom with the avatar but not Sumia, she needs defense... I guess that makes sense but I was wondering because it seems to be the smartest choice and tiers assume smart choices (at least they do in my experience). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Assuming you use around 4-5 units per chapter (which is generous, and this includes units Pairing up), 300 each, that's around 1.2k-1.5k per chapter. You don't have to agree with my views on LTC to agree with the view that Sully and Panne have overkill offense and defense which is unnecessary. Just feel like chiming in to say that having overkill offense/defense means that units X, Y and Z do not need G resources to perform to the maximum necessary for a reliably brisk chapter clear. If Wyvern!Panne can ORKO Everything in Ch7 with a Bronze Axe, then the funds saved from her not needing a tonic and an upgraded weapon are reallocated to different sources. That's a good thing, Olwen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Lol, it's hilarious no one here can actually disprove anything I can say and have no option but to say "ignore him." Can someone tell me why Tonics, Pair Ups etc. don't make strength and defense overkill? Can someone tell me why we need so much of it when we're only playing hard mode? Galeforce can be gotten early on if you do some early promotion tricks and some rational favoritism. I'm pretty sure I could do a tier list playthrough utilizing Sumia and Cordelia but without Sully and Panne at all. Anyone interested? If you refuse to use or elaborate on your own logic for anyone other than two specific characters, then you aren't worth listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Lol. It applies to every single character, obviously. Sumia and Cordelia just have the best mobility in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediabiwan Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) 2-3 units is stupid. The game throws so much EXP at you, there's no reason you shouldn't be using 6-10. But there are also plenty of second skills so that those few characters you can use can get overpowered. I feel like focusing on 3-4 pairs of units would be more viable than you might think. Olwen I'd be interested in seeing a playthrough that focused almost entirely on Sumia/Corlelia/Peg MU with good pair-up partners and see how badly if at all your turncounts suffer. The first few chapters will likely take a bit longer, but it could save a lot of turns in the end. If favoritism of a few units results in a close of even lower turncount than sharing xp wouldn't it be considered a good way to play? Edited May 7, 2013 by Jediabiwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) It's the combination of those factors that matter. I did not say they matter alone. Uh huh. So you agree with Lissa and Maribelle being below Sumia/Cordelia. Edited May 7, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Jedi, check my tier list playthrough. I don't even understand your response. All those things (dual guard, forges etc.) apply to every character. You're the only person who has an issue understanding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 You're avoiding answering my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Okay, I have no idea what your argument even is. Mind explaining it to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Why do Lissa and Maribelle (to a less extent) not belong right under Sumia/Cordelia when according to your logic, their availability is slightly below Cordelia's, and their utility+mobility are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Because they promote late, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediabiwan Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) ​Just feel like chiming in to say that having overkill offense/defense means that units X, Y and Z do not need G resources to perform to the maximum necessary for a reliably brisk chapter clear. If Wyvern!Panne can ORKO Everything in Ch7 with a Bronze Axe, then the funds saved from her not needing a tonic and an upgraded weapon are reallocated to different sources.That's a good thing, Olwen. I think Olwen is overstating it, but I think his logic goes like this. Unit A has 6 move and can complete the lvl in 8 turns w/o tonics or good weapons. Unit B has 8 move and can complete the level in 5 turns w/ tonics and good weapons. As long as you have enough resources to give Unit B those weapons and tonics he should always be better than Unit A. Now practically I'm not sure if there are enough resources to always have tonics and good weapons or if Unit B would actually result in that much faster of a clear than Unit A. But if he's right that they are than I totally agree with him that the tier list needs big changes. Edited May 7, 2013 by Jediabiwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Because they promote late, obviously. Their exp gain as pegasis knights are sky high, and since their combat stats don't matter, they can easily get it. Also, this only argues that they're worse than Sumia/Cordelia, which is already taken for granted, not worse than anyone else without galeforce. Getting galefore and 1-2 range slightly later is insignificant compared to pieces of shit like Panne and Sully who can't even get galeforce lol. Edited May 7, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 But there are also plenty of second skills so that those few characters you can use can get overpowered. I feel like focusing on 3-4 pairs of units would be more viable than you might think. Please note there's a difference between 2-3 characters and 3-4 pairs (6-8 characters). One of those is about three times as many characters as the other. Also, if in a standard playthrough everyone can be overpowered, as Olwen claims, why the heck is he then limiting himself to 2-3 characters? Why deploy 2-3 OP characters when you can have a whole team of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Because they promote late, obviously.Even if they're clearly not as good as Sumia or Cordelia, you must admit they're close. Better to have Galeforce, even if it comes slightly later (say, in chapter 14 instead of chapter 12) than to not have Galeforce at all. Please note there's a difference between 2-3 characters and 3-4 pairs (6-8 characters). One of those is about three times as many characters as the other. Also, if in a standard playthrough everyone can be overpowered, as Olwen claims, why the heck is he then limiting himself to 2-3 characters? Why deploy 2-3 OP characters when you can have a whole team of them? I'd imagine because extra characters divert experience away from Sumia and Robin. Two units with Galeforce will probably be able to beat certain chapters faster than six characters, even if they all 1-round and have effectively infinite durability. Edited May 7, 2013 by Anouleth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediabiwan Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Please note there's a difference between 2-3 characters and 3-4 pairs (6-8 characters). One of those is about three times as many characters as the other. Also, if in a standard playthrough everyone can be overpowered, as Olwen claims, why the heck is he then limiting himself to 2-3 characters? Why deploy 2-3 OP characters when you can have a whole team of them? Yeah if Olwen is talking about 2-3 characters without anyone in their pockets he might be insane. I think limiting himself to 2-3 characters (hopefully with a partner) mainly has to do with getting galeforce as soon as possible. Once he has galeforce they are so far ahead of anyone else it doesn't matter. I also assume it has more to do with proving his point. I'm sure an efficient play-through using olwen's strategy would use more than 2-3 characters most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 So now this is a Galeforce debate...I seriously don't know what to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 So now this is a Galeforce debate...I seriously don't know what to say... I'm also stuck thinking on what to say - let's hope SDS can clear this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I'm also stuck thinking on what to say - let's hope SDS can clear this up. It's impossible Olwen's obsession with LTC leaks into his entire argument and he has everyone else debating as if Galeforce and LTCing is more important to this tier list than the factors that we're actually tiering on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 It's impossible Olwen's obsession with LTC leaks into his entire argument and he has everyone else debating as if Galeforce and LTCing is more important to this tier list than the factors that we're actually tiering on. Either way, unless you're low manning, which I seriously doubt tier lists would assume, or giving blatant favoritism, I don't really think Galeforce would come into play until late in Valm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Shh, don't say that in front of Olwen. All that matters is that galeforce exists, obviously. Edited May 7, 2013 by Constable Reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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