FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Colonel M]

If this was a Lunatic tier list I could see Anna going up, but the staff utility is much less needed on hard and the tier list doesn't value Rescue very much.

I think the main issue is that Rescue still can do a lot of snazzy options - in particular, rescuing a Dancer. Or, you can kind of abuse for levels with it. The amount of gold you get is pretty unreal after a certain point in the game anyway. As far as difficulty is concerned... I don't see where Rescue is really shoved aside that much. If anything, your units becoming more unkillable would seem to favor it a bit more, but that's just me.

I'm still in agreement with Pegs > Anna, but she wouldn't go up to S Tier unless something crazy happened.

EDIT - on a side note:

Kid Tier List:

Morgan

Yarne

Kjelle

Cynthia

Owain

Gerome

Laurent

Severa

Nah

Brady

Noire

Inigo

I think in the case of children, there are two ways we can look at this:

Option 1 - Tier based on Father (or Mother in Morgan's case)

This would likely work similar to FE4 Part 2's Tier List I would think. We would assume children that are fairly optimal before less-optimal decisions. Morgan will definitely be the hardest, though, since there's... well... so many. Though to be fair on Morgan - she can probably join Lucina in the Tier List. She's so damn good it's nosebleed worthy.

Option 2 - Tier based on assumption of best parent

Probably not the most optimal, but certainly the fastest. In this case, the children would be merged. Viable parents can be considered in the tier list (for example, we can probably assume Cynthia being paired with Chrom, MU, Fredrick, and Henry as parents, though Fredrick would likely take precedent in this case since it's probably the most optimal). I would say we should ignore MU as a decision maker only because he's one of the few gender-benders, per se, but alas.

I think the children having their own tier list is fine anyway. Morgan is probably the only one worth merging into the normal tier list from what I know.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Colonel M

[Florete]

What about Morgan (M)?

[Colonel M]

What about Morgan (M)?

Oh. *Facedesk*.

Just see Morgan (F) for the most part - they both seem worthy enough.

[RNG Princess]

Can Anna have her own RNG tier?

I think Anna>mage>sage improves her a lot, but i'm not sure how she performs in later maps yet. At least she gains better 2 range weapons and her magic improves a lot giving her even more range to rescue from farther away. She's also really fast, even as a mage.

Edited May 17, 2013 by RNG Princess

[Da Bear]

Can Anna have her own RNG tier?

I think Anna>mage>sage improves her a lot, but i'm not sure how she performs in later maps yet. At least she gains better 2 range weapons and her magic improves a lot giving her even more range to rescue from farther away. She's also really fast, even as a mage.

This has a lot of opportunity cost. If we didn't have people who really need those seals to be good, (Vaike, Miriel and especially Panne) then this could work but as it is the cost seems a bit large...

[Shadow Mir]

EDIT - on a side note:

I think in the case of children, there are two ways we can look at this:

Option 1 - Tier based on Father (or Mother in Morgan's case)

This would likely work similar to FE4 Part 2's Tier List I would think. We would assume children that are fairly optimal before less-optimal decisions. Morgan will definitely be the hardest, though, since there's... well... so many. Though to be fair on Morgan - she can probably join Lucina in the Tier List. She's so damn good it's nosebleed worthy.

Option 2 - Tier based on assumption of best parent

Probably not the most optimal, but certainly the fastest. In this case, the children would be merged. Viable parents can be considered in the tier list (for example, we can probably assume Cynthia being paired with Chrom, MU, Fredrick, and Henry as parents, though Fredrick would likely take precedent in this case since it's probably the most optimal). I would say we should ignore MU as a decision maker only because he's one of the few gender-benders, per se, but alas.

I think the children having their own tier list is fine anyway. Morgan is probably the only one worth merging into the normal tier list from what I know.

I dunno - personally, I think it'd be a huge mess, and the fact that some parents wouldn't have an easy time getting married doesn't help. Also, Cynthia is a pretty big slippery slope, since unless you marry off either one of Cordelia or Lissa, you can't get her until after chapter 18.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Da Bear]

@Levant; Cordelia or Lissa getting married isn't that hard.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Adding on BC, I manage Fred X Cord A by chapter 11, its really easy since 7 - 11 are ridiculously biased for Fliers

[Colonel M]

Anna not getting the SS is okay anyway. Honestly, Levin Swords will last for a while so long as you aren't pissing them away and her Staff utility is too good to pass on. Lucky 7 is also a nice skill as is Acrobatic (though without Rescue abuse, harder to get to). I would only go Mage -> Sage if you felt really bored or had an Arms Scroll lying around.

[SB.]

Generally a 15/1 Sage Anna should be looking at enough magic to ORKO with Thunder anyway, or at least one of my runs worked out like that.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Serious Bananas

[Da Bear]

Generally a 15/1 Sage Anna should be looking at enough magic to ORKO with Thunder anyway, or at least one of my runs worked out like that.

It's still a second seal and several levels... she does do well but I think others do better... idk she's a great unit but top of A is a bit too high.

[Colonel M]

It's still a second seal and several levels... she does do well but I think others do better... idk she's a great unit but top of A is a bit too high.

Let's be fair - not many Mages come with Lockpick, +1 Mov, and maaaaaaybe Lucky 7. Alas, the real cost is when to seal her and if the team can live without a strong Rescue user for a little while. My guess is leaning no, though.

Not many Mages have roughly 19 Spd at base either.

[SB.]

By the time she's level 15, they're buyable. No issues there.

[Da Bear]

By the time she's level 15, they're buyable. No issues there.

At that point her lack of supports hurts... although Tiki coming up helps that.

[Sol Hiryu]

Since it seems that it hasn't been updated for a few days, I'm going to try and list the main points that are being discussed and/or got buried.

1) Sumia/Cordelia above Anna

I don't think a consensus on this has been reached yet, but it's mainly an issue of if the pegs combat + utility are better than Anna's thief/staff utility + combat. Anna does face the problem of her combat eventually tanking unless she forges a Levin Sword (which is ludicrously expensive) or second seals into a Sage, which is more plausible but leaves her with E tomes.

2) Tharja down/Henry up

This one is a bit confusing. If Henry is proven to be able to do Tharja's job but do it better than her, that's more of an argument to have Tharja move down to meet Henry somewhere in the middle, unless it's somehow proven that Henry is better than every character in between them. I don't think anyone can really assume that Dark Flier!Sumia is always guaranteed on him since either Sumia might want to go Falcon Knight for the better skills or don't want to separate her from Frederick.

3) Chrom down to top of A

I feel as if this one got buried pages back. Chrom has good offense and excellent pair up bonuses/skills, but that's all he really offers. He is swordlocked for a large amount of time unless you feed him an Arms Scroll as a Great Lord (which everyone wants) or reclass him to Cav and build it up with Discipline at the cost of not being able to use Rapiers, which he really would like to use once Valm kicks into gear. He is a great unit, just not extraordinary.

4) Move the kid tier to a separate thread?

This one I just thought of, but I think it has merit in the fact that it would probably be easier to move discussion of it to another thread entirely. That way we could discuss the best fathers/pairings without cluttering the current topic. For this tier list's purposes, their paralogues would still be done, but they would remain untiered because of the whole flexibility thing. It would also sidestep the potential recruitment cost angle.

[Da Bear]

I like all of those propositions.

I would like to add Vaike > Miriel.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I want to say Sumia should be S Tier

But ehhhh I won't

[Da Bear]

I want to say Sumia should be S Tier

But ehhhh I won't

I could see her above Chrom... it all depends on how much early-game EXP she gets.

[General Horace]

If Chrom is dropping to A tier, I don't see how Lucina(avatar) is S tier above him.

[Da Bear]

If Chrom is dropping to A tier, I don't see how Lucina(avatar) is S tier above him.

I'm not sure either.

Lucina is not on the team for half the game. 14 Chapters (counting the prologue) and 4 Paralogues before she's around against 13 Chapters and 1+ paralogues after she joins is.

[Colonel M]

If Chrom is dropping to A tier, I don't see how Lucina(avatar) is S tier above him.

In the same boat as this post honestly.

Chrom is good, but S Tier is pushing it.

[Folt]

Since this thread hasn't been posted in for a while, I'll chime in with some things:

I support Chrom moving down from S to A tier, sword-lock hurts, but reclassing to Cav. means he loses out on the Rapier weapons (which I've used to great effect during most of the Valm arc). I also support Avatar!Lucina moving down to A on the grounds that she comes at the halfway spot.

Slightly more Henry vs. Tharja: Now that I've gotten Tharja up to speed (promoted to Dark Knight of course), she and Henry are pretty interchangeable stat-wise. Tharja ends up with slightly better Magic and Speed on average, but Henry isn't that far behind either, gets much better Skill, and better Defense as well. Both will have crappy Resistance. I still think Henry gets better Support options since he can take either Sumia or Cordelia (and in the long run, it's probably better to give Sumia a new Pair-Up partner than to saddle her with Frederick for the rest of the game, thanks to bows and wind magic being a thing, and Frederick's not-so-good stats also being a thing). Being able to go with a Peg. Knight/Dark Flier also makes it easier to gain experience for him in my opinion, since they give Speed and Resistance bonuses (and Dark Fliers give Magic), and once he is properly supported, he can gain overkill Speed (and Magic). I might do another run to see how Henry is with a Falcon Knight pair-up, which would give him slightly more Speed and Res at the cost of a Magic bonus.

Also, I have to admit that I prefer Henry's high Defense and consistency of hitting enemy units over Tharja's slightly higher Magic and Speed: I've had Tharja die on me once or twice, but Henry hasn't died yet.

Also, both will want Speed Tonics and/or a Pair-Up that gives Speed when you first get them (and Tharja will want Skill and Luck Tonics during her Dark Mage phase, and Luck Tonics after, unless you pump her with Goddess Icons), and throughout most of early Valm. But once you do their base Speed is adequate to get them enough kills and levels to get to the point where they pay back their interest with rents later in the game.

So Henry should go up at least to B tier. Tharja should go down, but stay in B tier.

Also, I think flying definitely tops both staff and thieving utility, so both Peg. Knights over Anna sounds reasonable, though Anna is pretty much all you need regarding thieving and healing (and Rescuing). Also, Anna with a Killing Edge is pretty good, whether as a support unit or as a main unit. (Though part of it is because I've supported her with my Avatar.)

[Da Bear]

Anna with a killing edge sounds... interesting. By that point we should have money to burn so I could see it. When do killing edges show up again? I don't think it happens for a while and they're not abundant before they're buy-able. I could possibly see it but I don't think it's happening.

[SB.]

Owain, or Chapter 19. She's primarily a staffbot, so I don't think that she'll be breaking the thing in a hurry.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The game is rather generous with KE though