FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[General Horace]

if she gets enough levels she becomes pretty invincible with pretty solid 1-2 range

not a lot of the cast, but the point still stands

[Junkhead]

Do you keep her Manakete?

[General Horace]

im not a huge fan of her, but the general consensus is to yeah. Although she's probably pretty good as a wyvern.

[Shadow Mir]

im not a huge fan of her, but the general consensus is to yeah. Although she's probably pretty good as a wyvern.

She's generally kept as a Manakete. Also I think Wyvern Nowi would be a flat out losing trade relative to Manakete Nowi.

[General Horace]

except for the huge advantages of movement and flight.

[Shadow Mir]

except for the huge advantages of movement and flight.

But... would that be enough to make up for losing the defensive bonuses Dragonstones give? I dunno...

[General Horace]

the reclass gives her +6 defence, and she still has pretty crazy defensive growths, even still 40% resistance as a wyvern.

I've not really tried it though, to be fair, its just theoryemblem on my part, which is kind of ehhh without trying it first.

[Donnel]

It's almost like this isn't an LTC list.

First-gen units who have access to Galeforce: Lissa, Sumia, Mariabelle, Cordelia, Olivia, Say'ri

Note that only two units here start off as PK -- the rest (excluding Say'ri) are going to have to level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Second Seal, level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Master Seal, and finally level up another 15 levels. That takes time and won't be happening best-case scenario until well into the campaign. Also note that these units, again excluding Say'ri, all have offense ranging from terrible to thoroughly mediocre.

Deliverer is decent for a handful of kill boss maps. It can shave off a handful of turns in maps like Ch.16, Ch.21, and Ch.22. But this isn't an LTC list and saving a couple of turns is much less efficient and much more risky than Nosferatank -> win.

Again, this is operating under LTC assumptions, where a point or two of extra movement is somehow more valuable than invincibility.

Maybe the reason is the way you re-class, hence you deem it inefficient compared to nesfutanking.

Note that only two units here start off as PK -- the rest (excluding Say'ri) are going to have to level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Second Seal, level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Master Seal, and finally level up another 15 levels. That takes time and won't be happening best-case scenario until well into the campaign. Also note that these units, again excluding Say'ri, all have offense ranging from terrible to thoroughly mediocre.

What I would do, is level up to ten, waste 2.5k on a Master Seal, level up to 20 than 'waste' 2.5k on second seal directly to DF for the final 15 levels.

5 more levels, same inner level, but 2 level 15 skills, more stats level up, and than 1 turn for the rest of the game.

If you 'include' the damage dealt, Tharja can't hit hard as Lissa with the same leveling, and nefu tome cost more than other magic tome (negligible). Hitting harder means the tome expire at slower rate. 20 use count is also less than 30/45 use.

Tharja hit rate maybe negligible, but that 'miss' is costly when kill should be certain.

Just admit that not using brain to win deserve higher ranks.

Auto/End turn and win, is there any point in playing this game anymore?

[Da Bear]

Durability is the most important thing to have. Nowi has the best durability. She's only as low as she is because she takes 1-2 chapters to train and doesn't fly.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Also she trivializes Valm Arc

Kappa

[Da Bear]

Also she trivializes Valm Arc

Kappa

Valm arc is easy to trivialize... the entire game from that point on is easy to trivialize... they're called child paralogues and they get your team almost ready for Grima before you face Walhart.

[Chiki]

Remember that everyone can be durable enough with Tonics and pair ups.

[Da Bear]

Remember that everyone can be durable enough with Tonics and pair ups.

So? Nowi with tonics and pair ups (which she doesn't need) can tank better than several units who need those pair ups and tonics.

Edited May 31, 2013 by bearclaw13

[Chiki]

Nowi's durability is pretty overkill. Lunatic mode I can see, but not hard.

[PKL]

The thing that bothers me about this Nowi hype, is that the people that hype her feed her like an entire map and sometimes even slow down for her. If units like Cordelia, Sumia, Stahl and others are almost invincible too, what's it matter if she takes 2 damage vs their 5 out of 48 hp (just an example) when they do it faster? The Nowi hype is unwarranted, I can see why some would consider her OP due to her defenses when BABIED but I don't agree with it. It's hard to convince me. It also doesn't help that Ricken gets a lot more flack for his 5 spd base in Chapter 5 than Nowi gets for her 5 spd base (after Dragonstone) in Chapter 8, and they have the same growth and support the same dude (Gregor).

[Interceptor]

The thing that bothers me about this Nowi hype, is that the people that hype her feed her like an entire map and sometimes even slow down for her. If units like Cordelia, Sumia, Stahl and others are almost invincible too, what's it matter if she takes 2 damage vs their 5 out of 48 hp (just an example) when they do it faster? The Nowi hype is unwarranted, I can see why some would consider her OP due to her defenses when BABIED but I don't agree with it. It's hard to convince me. It also doesn't help that Ricken gets a lot more flack for his 5 spd base in Chapter 5 than Nowi gets for her 5 spd base (after Dragonstone) in Chapter 8, and they have the same growth and support the same dude (Gregor).

There is a huge difference between "babying" (what we do to make Donnel good) and "feeding" (what we do to make Avatar good). One implies slowing down the team, the other implies focusing of resources. It's bad if you need to be babied, it's not necessary bad if you take a lot of resources (you do, however, need to perform with those resources, otherwise it's a waste).

N.O.W.I. gets fed kills in the course of normal clears. Seriously, she contributes to an efficient clear of her joining chapter, and only needs boosters/Pair-up to rock and roll from that point on. Once she hits critical mass in terms of defensive parameters, she can stall half a map by herself while you focus the rest of your army elsewhere. Once she starts doubling, she's one of the top five units on your team.

Your Ricken complaint is rejected. Compare their concrete durability sometime, and ask yourself whether that makes a difference for their ability to grow/contribute. Spoilers: it does. What do you suppose that Ricken's chances are of getting to the point where he can tank 17 Valm guys in one Enemy Phase?

[PKL]

Ive had Ricken tank the entire left portion of Chapter 12. He also ORKO'd them due to hitting RES, your point is moot. What I see here is people cherrypicking who can get away with that spd base. Ricken has ways to contribute right away with his Elwind and is also easier to feed kills to for me than Miriel. If Ricken's durability affects his growth, then I shudder to think what Miriel's durability does to her. Back on the topic of NOWAI: she's thouroughly mediocre in her join chapter. Getting 2HKO'd by stuff at base and a combination of a fighter and 2 dark mage hits will kill her. She's not exactly invincible on join. She HAS to be babied. You're just on denial.

[Chiki]

Nowi has 5 move and can't double a thing. She has to be babied in order to be useful.

[PKL]

6* move but yeah.

[Chiki]

Whoops, my bad.

Anyway, Nowi comes with an amazing 5 speed. She can't double things even with a Lon'qu support. Her speed growth isn't that fantastic, either. It's only 50%.

[Interceptor]

Ive had Ricken tank the entire left portion of Chapter 12. He also ORKO'd them due to hitting RES, your point is moot. What I see here is people cherrypicking who can get away with that spd base. Ricken has ways to contribute right away with his Elwind and is also easier to feed kills to for me than Miriel. If Ricken's durability affects his growth, then I shudder to think what Miriel's durability does to her. Back on the topic of NOWAI: she's thouroughly mediocre in her join chapter. Getting 2HKO'd by stuff at base and a combination of a fighter and 2 dark mage hits will kill her. She's not exactly invincible on join. She HAS to be babied. You're just on denial.

I could have Ricken tank the entire left portion of Ch12, too. The difference is that Ricken doesn't get there without grinding, or massively slowing down the team while you baby the hell out of him. The reason is, he doesn't have the durability to train himself in the normal course of the game. You have to choose between speed, or dealing with his frailty. Nowi does not force that kind of a decision on your team, because you get both her contributions, and durability to facilitate growth, when you use her.

Your biggest problem is that while you imagine a contradiction in the treatment of base SPD, you seem to fail to understand that the durability difference makes it irrelevant. Look at Nowi's growths. I'll wait. Notice how she kicks the shit out of Ricken in every category except MAG, a stat that she doesn't even use? It's not even close, it's a total stomp. If you were insane and reclassed her to Mage, she beats or ties everything he has, including MAG.

So here we have Nowi, who can happily survive getting attacked by half a dozen guys because of Gregor and a DEF tonic. She levels at the same rate as Ricken, but can face a lot more combat than him because of her tankiness. She doesn't double, but hits so hard that she's 2HKO'ing anyway, and counters everything, so no man is left unscathed.

Nowi has 5 move and can't double a thing. She has to be babied in order to be useful.

Nowi has 5 move in your wildest dreams. Maybe while you are educating yourself on what "babying" actually means, you can brush up on your class bases too.

Incidentally, Nowi effectively has 7 MV as soon as her defenses are established, since you can promote Gregor to Bow Knight once she doesn't needs his +DEF anymore. She's no flier, but she's no slouch either.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Interceptor

[Chiki]

The difference is that Ricken doesn't get there without grinding, or massively slowing down the team while you baby the hell out of him.

Lol, Peekayell doesn't grind or play slowly. Anyway, Ricken with a Kellam pair up (I'm assuming no supports for the sake of argument here) at around level 13 by the time of chapter 12 has 6.5 def, assuming Tonics.

6 def base + 3.5 def from level ups + 5 from Kellam + 2 from Tonic = 16.5. A number which increases if one supports him with Kellam.

Durability doesn't mean shit in this game when Ricken can tank enemies. Nowi's durability is overkill, period.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Chiki

[Interceptor]

Lol, Peekayell doesn't grind or play slowly.

Can't wait to hear his story of making a 6 DEF 35% growth Mage able to tank half a dozen mounts in Ch12, without making the army slow to a crawl in the run-up to it. It must be a tale for the ages.

Anyway, Ricken with a Kellam pair up (I'm assuming no supports for the sake of argument here) at around level 13 by the time of chapter 12 has 6.5 def, assuming Tonics.

6 def base + 3.5 def from level ups + 5 from Kellam + 2 from Tonic = 16.5. A number which increases if one supports him with Kellam.

How the eff are you establishing a Ricken/Kellam support?

What's impressive about being 2.5 DEF over what Frederick has in Prologue? There are guys in this chapter that will hit 17 DEF for something like ~24 damage.

Durability doesn't mean shit in this game when Ricken can tank enemies. Nowi's durability is overkill, period.

Is it alright with you if we first establish that Ricken can actually tank enemies?

[General Horace]

im assuming dicken was a dark knight by the time chapter 12 rolled around, he wouldn;t have much of an issue. The enemies there do have around 22-27 attack (excluding the paladins) which really is pretty unimpressive.

Most promoted units don't have an issue tanking enemies in said chapter.

Edited May 31, 2013 by General Horace

[Chiki]

How the eff are you establishing a Ricken/Kellam support?

Lol.

(I'm assuming no supports for the sake of argument here)

What's impressive about being 2.5 DEF over what Frederick has in Prologue? There are guys in this chapter that will hit 17 DEF for something like ~24 damage.

Yeah, a couple Silver Lance Paladins. That doesn't represent the majority of the enemies here.

A Steel Lance Cavalier has 24 might. Ricken probably has around 29 HP by that time, so Ricken gets 4HKOed by this particular one. A great statistic once you consider the fact that you have many units to use--this isn't an earlygame chapter. You can put Ricken in the frontlines no problem.

Anyway, your argument is moot when we consider an early promotion for Ricken. As a Dark Knight he pretty much has no issue here at all.