Something that bugs me about SwordMasters

[Shikinoyume]

Please read.

Astra takes one durability, not 5.

Astra runs off of the Skill stat, and occurs on a chance of (Skill/2)%. The luck stat has nothing to do with the activation rate of Astra.

Lethality runs off of the Skill stat, and occurs on a chance of (Skill/4)%. The luck stat has nothing to do with the activation rate of Lethality.

Even if you max your luck stat, it has absolutely nothing to do with neither Astra nor Lethality.

And once again just to make sure you understand. Astra only uses a single use of a weapon, not 5.

hey do me a favor and relax, lol

and once again i JUST tested it, astra takes 1 pt per hit in my game

and no one disputed the activation rate, i said FOR ME Lethality happends Way more often then Astra.

On a side note~

Use Astra on an enemy with More HP then you and counter

then do the same with Lethality and notice how different the result is.

enough said~

Edited March 7, 2013 by Shikihime

[Saria]

I have Astra on all my units who can get it and they're very consistent in activating it, plus they tend to critical on at least one of the hits. Where as my only character that activates Lethality consistently is Morgan who's got capped skill and Rightful King tacked onto him. I know player experience differs between each person, but statistically, you're more likely to activate Astra.

Also I'm surprised people lose 5 durability points, Owain activated it for me with one weapon usage left and his weapon broke after he hit all five times?? Odd. (He also didn't have access to Armsthrift since his father was Stahl in this file)

Anyways, there is seriously nothing wrong or disappointing with a character model having more than one weapon attached to it, but being able to equip only one. It's been done in older games, this is nothing new. All three GBA games had pirates duel wielding axes in their sprites, and assassins doing the same. Swordmasters are the one who do it in this game is all it is. They're swordmasters, so it seems cooler that they're carrying all of them in my opinion, also it kind of makes sense when you've got them loaded up with multiple swords anyways, hahaha

[Zarb]

Lethality may lead to an instant kill, but consider that it has an activation rate of Skill/4 (which can end up to be 12% at most without modifiers and Rightful King). In comparison to a skill that has an activation rate of Skill/2 (which can end up to be 24% at most without modifiers and Rightful King) and is approximately 0.5 damage shy of being a basic critical, Lethality is hardly what I would call "better than Astra".

To be fair. Astra's activation rate isn't much better. 24% isn't all that better than 12%. It's double, sure, but those numbers are both really low.

If we're doing this comparison on a situation where both activate, Lethality is instantly better.

Lethality kills instantly. The only thing (to my knowledge) that can block a Lethality strike is Miracle activating.

Astra can miss, be affected by Pavise and Aegis, and triggers Counter. Although, to be fair, it CAN crit. But Lethality can too. And for Lethality, it doesn't matter.

In the case where Mirace activates, Astra is better... If it doesn't activate on the 5th attack. If it DOES, then neither Lethality nor Astra have an advantage in that situation.

But, on topic:

It bugs me how Swordsmasters have two swords in their field sprite, but it's not that big of a deal. They look cool.

[Dragrath]

I'm fairly certian I noticed Astra take 3durabilty for 3 hits but I can be certain... can someone verify from the coding that it uses 1 durability?

[PK Gaming]

Assassins are better... In my opinion.

Lethality is a better ability than Astra. Pass is useful, about equal with Swordfaire.

I'd take an Assassin over a Swordsmaster any day.

Astra is much better than Lethality

Edited March 7, 2013 by PK Gaming

[NinjaMonkey]

Lethality kills instantly. The only thing (to my knowledge) that can block a Lethality strike is Miracle activating.

Support Block can also negate the effects of Lethality.

[Shikinoyume]

Astra is much better than Lethality

No one cares e-o

its preference, which ever you like better is what you should go with

[PK Gaming]

No one cares e-o

its preference, which ever you like better is what you should go with

Astra is objectively better than Lethality though.

What part of "activates twice as much as Lethality, and still OHKOes most of the units of the game" do you not get?

Edited March 7, 2013 by PK Gaming

[Zarb]

Support Block can also negate the effects of Lethality.

This is true.

I didn't mention that because (unless I am mistaken) only the Player can utilize Support Block. Thank you for mentioning it, however.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Zarb

[Shikinoyume]

Astra is objectively better than Lethality though.

What part of "activates twice as much as Lethality, and still OHKOes most of the units of the game" do you not get?

that right there "most of the units of the game"

where lethality OHKOs ALL

lol

like i said its preference, pick what you want, i will stick with lethality.

[Rehab]

I'm guessing the 3-sword thing might be a reference to the three blades a samurai might wear at once, the wakizashi and tanto in addition to the katana, though they generally only used one at a time, and just as often only brought either one or the other of the secondary swords. Somebody more familiar can feel free to correct me on anything.

[Gone2Ground]

Yeah, it did annoy me that I couldn't dual wield swords; the sprite looked so cool. It could be an interesting feature to compliment for future FEs (dual wielding weapons) but I'm not entirely sure how they'd go about doing that....I'd like to see it though!

Skill % Chance of attacking w/ second weapon would be how I manage it. It would be an interesting idea, at least.

[Xinnidy]

no... i just tested it, like JUST NOW

i got 3 hits off and i went from 25 dura to 22 dura

i lose 1 Dura per hit, im not sure what you guys are talking about

Your game copy is weird.

I tried it and only lost 1 use of my steel sword, 4 hits connected, the last one was a crit.

Nothing else to say about this discussion though.

[Shikinoyume]

Your game copy is weird.

I tried it and only lost 1 use of my steel sword, 4 hits connected, the last one was a crit.

Nothing else to say about this discussion though.

good cause we are off that topic thanks!

Skill % Chance of attacking w/ second weapon would be how I manage it. It would be an interesting idea, at least.

well it dose not have to really add anything to i just wanted the SMs to be more flashy is all lol

or look like the sprite maybe? lol

they could equip one weapon and just attack with 2 weapons in battle but they have the stats of the one equip

lol nothing special, it seems that most of the ppl here did not get what i said, but its ok.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Shikihime

[Elieson]

It's cool how Lethality won't work on the final boss, but Astra will..

Just Saiyan

[Zarb]

It's cool how Lethality won't work on the final boss, but Astra will..

Just Saiyan

So what's that for Astra? One situation where Astra is better? Two, if you count Miracle activating before the 5th hit on a War Cleric?

Cool. Have fun fighting that Warrior with Counter. Astra will SURELY come in handy in that fight.

[hinode]

Astra is also better for any opponent for whom 2.5x damage is enough to net the kill, which is the vast majority of them, optimized Streetpass teams excluded.

Also, attacking a Warrior with Counter at melee range is dumb no matter which of Astra/Lethality you have equipped, or both. At the very least, use your Assassin's bow instead; same activation rate for Lethality, and you won't kill yourself if the low chance of activating doesn't succeed.

[Redwall]

So what's that for Astra? One situation where Astra is better? Two, if you count Miracle activating before the 5th hit on a War Cleric?

Cool. Have fun fighting that Warrior with Counter. Astra will SURELY come in handy in that fight.

Why would you ever put a 1-range attacker, whether it's an Astra user or a Lethality user, in range of a Warrior with Counter? Either take him out on player phase with 2-range attacks or stay out of his range during the enemy phase.

[Goblinaro]

Meanwhile, back on the On-Topic Train....

So yeah, I agree that it would look cool to have a Swordmaster dual-wielding swords would be cool, but I don't think it would work out unless you're able to equip the second sword as a sword different from the first and without the second sword having any effect on damage, hit, critical, or weapon effects (like Swordbreaker skill or Defense +5, effects like that not being in effect).

If Swordmasters could dual-wield with the second weapon having their original effects with their weapon stats contributing to combat (given that they don't strike with their second weapon all the time), it would kind of break the game some by being able to combine several sword effects together where otherwise one of said skills would be needed to be equipped to the active skill list normally.

Having both swords wielded being the exact same (even if the second sword doesn't have any effect on combat, and is just being used in the Swordmaster's hands for looks), it would make some contradictions. Like Swordmaster Lucina dual-wielding two Parallel Falchions or Prince/King Marth dual-wielding two Exalted Falchions. Plus I'd be fuckin' nervous if I walked up to Yen'fay whose decked out with two Amatsus. xD

[Loki Laufeyson]

OP topic, meh. The only time it looks wonky is the actual battle model. How cumbersome to have two sheathed blades and one in their hand...srsly.

As for which class i like best out of Assassin, Swordie and Trickster, im gonna go with Swordie. Lethality is cool but i like Astra better. (or a Swordie with Astra and Lethality. Best of both worlds! Hai my Hard mode run Gerome! sup.)

Astra on a mage is awesome and hilarious.

[Goblinaro]

Astra on a mage is awesome and hilarious.

Is Luna on a mage equally hilarious? xD

[Shikinoyume]

Meanwhile, back on the On-Topic Train....

So yeah, I agree that it would look cool to have a Swordmaster dual-wielding swords would be cool, but I don't think it would work out unless you're able to equip the second sword as a sword different from the first and without the second sword having any effect on damage, hit, critical, or weapon effects (like Swordbreaker skill or Defense +5, effects like that not being in effect).

If Swordmasters could dual-wield with the second weapon having their original effects with their weapon stats contributing to combat (given that they don't strike with their second weapon all the time), it would kind of break the game some by being able to combine several sword effects together where otherwise one of said skills would be needed to be equipped to the active skill list normally.

Having both swords wielded being the exact same (even if the second sword doesn't have any effect on combat, and is just being used in the Swordmaster's hands for looks), it would make some contradictions. Like Swordmaster Lucina dual-wielding two Parallel Falchions or Prince/King Marth dual-wielding two Exalted Falchions. Plus I'd be fuckin' nervous if I walked up to Yen'fay whose decked out with two Amatsus. xD

lol @ that last part.

but the point was not to have an effect on battle but just to look cool, and it could be like some of the MMOs where you dual wield, the 2nd sword looks like a regular sword but has the stats of the actual sword you equip.

thus not changing the battle, but just makes your character look epic xD

[Goblinaro]

lol @ that last part.

but the point was not to have an effect on battle but just to look cool, and it could be like some of the MMOs where you dual wield, the 2nd sword looks like a regular sword but has the stats of the actual sword you equip.

thus not changing the battle, but just makes your character look epic xD

Yeah, I think that would be fine. Although they would still have to pay attention to weapon balance (as in symmetrical balance), it'd be hilarous to see someone wielding Ragnell in their right hand with a Levin Sword in their left hand. XD

Edited March 8, 2013 by Goblinaro

[Loki Laufeyson]

Is Luna on a mage equally hilarious? xD

Dunno. None of my magic users have it. I do love the animation on a wyvern rider/lord using Luna though. Twirly dragon move! (lol Cynthia)

[Zarb]

Astra is also better for any opponent for whom 2.5x damage is enough to net the kill, which is the vast majority of them, optimized Streetpass teams excluded.

Also, attacking a Warrior with Counter at melee range is dumb no matter which of Astra/Lethality you have equipped, or both. At the very least, use your Assassin's bow instead; same activation rate for Lethality, and you won't kill yourself if the low chance of activating doesn't succeed.

I'm comparing Astra to Lethality in a hypothetical situation.

In a 1 on 1 fight with another unit. Since I'm comparing abilities, in this hypothetical situation they both activate in this fight.

If I were to count in every possible factor (Stats, terrain bonuses, Pair Up bonuses, etc...) I would literally go insane from this. I am comparing them in the easiest way possible.

I'm not saying someone is actually stupid enough to attack a Warrior with Counter at 1 range. (Even though before I knew what Counter did, I did that on accident. Funnily enough, I had Astra activate in that fight. Was not pretty.)

Everyone is human. They make mistakes. Sooner or later, it's possible that someone will miss an enemy on the field. This is the kind of situation I'm talking about.

But, on topic.

I think maybe the way the dual-wielding could work is that if it uses the attack stat of one sword, but cuts it by half and attacks twice. And only have a chance of activating the skill on the first weapon strike.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Zarb