FE7 LHM + HHM Low Turn Attempt

[Espinosa]

Chapter 16 (Noble Lady of Caelin) in 3 turns.

This is where stuff gets fun, as you need quite a bit of effort/planning/optimisation to shave turns off.

[chococoke]

First time Bauker has been killed with the killing edge in the history of Fire Emblem

[Espinosa]

First time Bauker has been killed with the killing edge in the history of Fire Emblem

I don't think that's anything gimmicky - when Marcus needs to 1RKO the boss and doesn't have the rank to 2HKO with the Silver Axe, he goes for the only available killer weapon. I'd have trained him in axes in the previous defence map but he was weighed down and no longer doubling some enemy types. There will be less reliable bosskills later on, namely Lloyd in my 1-turn.

On that note, I wanted to present my 6-turn strat for chapter 17:

Second Paladin is the only way to shave off that turn from the map, which neglects Lucius's recruitment (so no Purge user for me on this run) and the Silver Sword chest. I do get both the chests in the south and Raven (whom I end up not using at all), though.

And guess what weapon I used to kill Bernard with lol.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Espinosa

[Gergeshwan]

Sain is probably really wishing he had more hit. Although being fast enough to double slow enemy types even while carrying Marcus is nice enough to make up for that.

One thing I was a little surprised by is the number of times Florina was able to successfully enter bow infested areas and be attacked by at most one of them. Carefully planned formations to restrict enemy movement like that are always good to see.

I'm fairly confident Kenneth's chapter can be 6 turned, and maybe even 5 turned with some good Ninian rescue chains. Sain could probably clear out the room with the Sniper all on his own, and with 2 promoted fliers, you can carry both him and Hector. I haven't actually tried Jerme's map, but that's a lot of ground to cover as opposed to working in a focused direction.

[Espinosa]

Yeah, it's easier to make Sain connect his attacks than it is to make Marcus double and 2HKO bosses. Uhai and Lloyd are some of the bosses Sain has trouble hitting, though I focus on his lance rank for +5 hit and since my Tactician has wind affinity he gets gradually more hit from that as well. Still, connecting two attacks on Lloyd was a pain in the arse and the RNG wouldn't let me connect even one until I restarted from the chapter save instead.

Florina was actually constantly dying for me on that map. I had Marcus re-equip her with a lighter weapon once because otherwise she was getting doubled and ORKO'd by the sole Nomad who could reach her. Training and promoting her are still not to be underestimated though (even though her combat doesn't drastically improve with 5 con not being much better than 4, but she actually one-rounded a Fighter with a Javelin in a later chapter, so that's pretty impressive).

I'll probably take Kenneth's chapter and see how many turns I can get there. Horace achieved a 8-turn and slowed down towards the end for reliability, dondon got 10 turns because he wanted Harken. 5 turns seems like a stretch since Ninian can't move very far in snow, and will probably retract her movement when getting too close to Kenneth who OHKO's with Purge. I still haven't decided who should get my 2nd Angelic Robe, so maybe I should give it to Ninian, going to calculate if it's enough to survive a Purge with a full Barrier boost first though.

Ninian could also get an extra level if I decide to have her use rings instead of dancing for the whole of chapter 26 (20 exp instead of 10 exp but no benefit to Priscilla and/or Pent), which is another likely HP/res level.

Chapter 26 generally overwhelms me because there are so many mutually conflicting objectives to consider (outside from 'survive and shop for killers'). I am looking at my Erk, still a Mage, wondering if I should spam staves with him instead for a more competent combat unit than Priscilla:

Erk

11/0

HP 23

Mag 12

Skl 9

Spd 15

Lck 5

Def 4

Res 8

Could spam Heal until Battle Before Dawn where Torch comes in handy. Priscy is 6.28/10 and needs Ninian's attention in order to promote until next chapter. Then again, I think she moves only 2 spaces in the snow, whether promoted or not, so her promotion might as well wait until, say, BBD or even CoD.

I only bought 2 Barriers in chapter 22, so I can't exactly "spam" it without running out too quickly. Should sell all useless crap like my Light tomes (for whom there is no user in this PT) so that Merlinus has the space for all the killers.

[Espinosa]

Chapter 17x in 2 turns. Needs some "luck" with the RNG, but nothing particularly unlikely. All villages visited besides the Lancereaver, thanks to a lucky crit.

[Espinosa]

Chapter18 in 3 turns, with both promotion items and a Pure Water stolen.

[PKL]

Is the 2 turn not possible anymore in HHM?

[dondon151]

just by counting squares, i can't see how you would do it

also seconding kenneth's map. you can probably do that one more quickly than you think. fliers and rath have 4 move in the snow and ninian can survive kenneth's purge with robe + max pure water on top of her base stats.

Edited April 25, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Only on HNM/Eliwood modes, where your characters start a few squares south. No possibility to cut a turn exists in HHM, and Florina doesn't help even one bit (the way to the boss is straightforward for mounted units).

I think I'll take Kenneth's and not bother with training Raven, or even Erk. I think I'll make it my chapter 26 objective to get as much exp for Heath as possible, so that I don't have any regrets if I am to promote him early for 4 move in the snow. Hector too probably as he'll have to withstand quite a lot of punishment in Kenneth's map if I play fast enough.

I'm wondering if the second Angelic Robe should go to Ninian. Mine is at 4/0, with +2 HP/+3 res over her base stats in the few levels she got (I've been shaving off a lot of turns) and I'm guessing 4.18 means she took part in precisely 8 enemy phase battles. Kenneth has 31 atk with Bolting, so assuming a full Barrier boost, she just needs +2 HP/res to survive a Purge, which a single level-up (I'm thinking about two right now) could grant her, and any extra gives her durability with a Barrier boost that's running out. I can't think of any better candidates for the robe either - any fighter could use extra durability, certainly, but Ninian is often OHKO'd by things. The robe would also let her survive 2 Boltings from the Mages in chapter 28x - not familiar with the optimal LTC strategy for that map so I have no clue if this means anything and how far Ninian will even travel on that map (it'll probably be just fliers and Hector, as I don't have Lucius to give Purge to, and my Lords were obviously not high-levelled enough to have a Bolting). Should be a fun map to play out.

[PKL]

Is the 2 turn not possible anymore in HHM?

Im curious, dont ignore ;_;

Edited April 26, 2013 by Peekayell

[Espinosa]

Only on HNM/Eliwood modes, where your characters start a few squares south. No possibility to cut a turn exists in HHM, and Florina doesn't help even one bit (the way to the boss is straightforward for mounted units).

[PKL]

Only on HNM/Eliwood modes, where your characters start a few squares south. No possibility to cut a turn exists in HHM, and Florina doesn't help even one bit (the way to the boss is straightforward for mounted units).

Oh, sorry, I thought that was directed at dondon. Thanks for the answer :D

[Espinosa]

Chapter 19 in 3 turns. Fiora recruited, and I even obtain the Torch staff (woooow, okay, it IS helpful on turns 1 and 4 in the desert).

Florina doesn't have to promote to make the 3-turn clear feasible.

[Hash Jar]

Awesome stuff man. I personally don't prefer to play the game like this, but I do try to somewhat keep the turns low or I feel I failed a little. I like to make supports and have a full team of interchangeable units so I can't go too fast, but this is amazing. LTC is amazing to watch is basically what I'm saying.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Hash Jar

[Espinosa]

I'm back home, and here's chapter 19x in 3 turns with the Silver Card obtained:

[chococoke]

Sain's speed is rather absurd. Never thought I'd see one with more speed than strength.

Also, interesting how Kishuna appears after Aion dies.

[Espinosa]

On my FE6 HM LTC run, I had Rutger proc strength a lot more than speed... which of course I didn't mind.

Here's chapter 20 in 5 turns:

Wanted the Member Card and the other goodies; otherwise, a 4-turn should be possible.

[Espinosa]

Chapter 21 in 2 turns.

[Espinosa]

Finally had the time to play through chapter 26, which is an annoying map when you also want to get some good level-ups for desired characters. The recording turned out to be 26 mins long, go figure (nothing like some PoR maps though).

Eliwood, Rath, Lowen and Heath are all ready to promote (12-18/0), but Eliwood and Lowen are unlikely to make a change on Kenneth's map, it seems. Rath and Heath need a promotion for 4 move in the snow (Rath still takes forest penalties) and could use some promotion gains too.

I'm trying to go for a 5-turn right now, which involves a rush involving Hector, the three 4 move characters I have and Ninian. I've already managed to drop Hector in seize range on turn 4, but he gets killed by Kenneth the same turn. Could probably increase the chances of survival using Swordreaver, Pure Waters and Physic healing (Pent has 10 staff range after map 26 and optimising the rescue chains could help get him close to the action, perhaps letting him ORKO the WKs if possible), but between Kenneth's ridiculously meaty chip, the SM who doubles not only Hector but also Rath (120 acc fml) and the SB Sniper, ensuring the survival of all involved appears to be a difficult task.

I'm thinking this is a good time to employ the Sleep staff, but getting Pent all the way there seems impossible. Maybe try to Berserk the Purge Bishop? Not sure if that works at all. Does Ninian's buff affect staff hit rates too, or just the attack? Never tried it for this purpose.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Espinosa

[ZemZem]

I decided to experiment with it:

But for some reason:

Priscilla's hit rate when down by 2%. I thought it was pretty weird, so I did it again.

And the hit percentage didn't change at all, so Filla's Might doesn't do anything noteworthy. Though, I find it odd how the hit percentage the first time around went down by 2%.

[Espinosa]

The reason it went down is because the distance between the caster and the target of status staves also affects the hit rate (though nowhere as much as the difference between caster's magic and target's resistance).

And yeah, seems it has no visible effect, thanks for experimenting with that.

I'm wondering if it's worth restarting chapter 26 to have a better Rath (I didn't field him there at all, even though for the first 3-4 turns bows allow him to counter nearly every enemy in the southern portion of the map once he one-rounds the Myrm), perhaps so that he doesn't get doubled by the SM.

If I still try for the 5-turn, I should remember that generally there are two options:

a) Hector is dropped in seize range on turn 4. I've already achieved this with little effort, so that much is possible. The main difficulty is the survival, so finding ways to exploit the AI (like baiting the Archers with a flier so that the SM has nobody to attack because his path is blocked? idk) and preventing the opposition from wrecking havoc seem like key ideas.

Pent only has 20 mag against the Purge Bishop's 19 res, so berserking his is tough when done from a distance, and sleeping him is mostly useless (good for not dying, e.g. Priscy is ohko'd without a Barrier boost, but poor for advancing the party).

b) Somebody else (perhaps several units) position themselves in a way that makes survival on turn 4 possible, while Ninian is rescuedropped 10 squares away from seize point, so that on turn 5 one of the frontliners (which is limited to Rath, Heath and Florina; my bulkier guys like Lowen and Sain have no means of getting there quick enough due to the snow and forests) is given Hector (all three can easily carry him around even when both sides are promoted) and drops him 5 squares away from the throne. That also leaves the issue of bosskilling.

I wonder if I'm somehow being erroneous by dragging Hector all the way up right from the start. If this is the realistic 5-turn strat, why not carry Pent instead, as he actually one-rounds everyone on the way with ludicrous res-targeting damage (compare Pent's 20 mag to, say, Hector's or Hawkeye's 19 str at this point) and could even do something with status staves, i.e. Berserk or Sleep.

Or actually, how about I just carry Sain there instead? He doubles the SM, laughs at the bow users and could dodge Kenneth's chip with more ease than anybody else in the party (besides Merlinus lol). I think this just might be THE success strategy.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Espinosa

[ZemZem]

Aha, I wasn't paying attention to where I moved Priscilla, thanks.

Good luck with your strategy.

[Espinosa]

So after a little practice it turns out that 2nd Sain strat works nicely enough and provides a fairly reliable 5-turn strategy. All that's left is optimising rescue chains to drop Hector with Ninis's Grace status on (by not dropping him prematurely once contracted) and possibly nab some chests.

I suppose the only chest I really want is the Talisman. I have a crapload of money at this point, so much that I don't really know what to do with that Blue Gem. In fact, I'd gladly give up a half of that money for double item space (blame stupid shopping though). I don't really need a 3rd Guiding Ring either, knowing Priscilla is the only unpromoted mage I would care about promoting.

[Espinosa]

Anybody can tell me if the Earth Seal Druid in BBD is slow enough to be stolen from by a base level Legault? I would suspect he is, but it appears our enemy stats sticky is lacking when it comes to later chapters (wonder why such a lack of interest in what seems to be the most popular FE game) so I can't know for sure.

I do think promoting Fiora would enable more reliable, or at least flexible, strats. Heath, Florina, Vaida and Fiora all with 8/10 move seems a bit too much, but there are endgame maps where you either fly or you don't really matter a whole lot.