This sucks

[Knife]

Why no knives in this game?

[Junkhead]

The last thing we want is thieves having even crappier Atk.

[cloudropis]

pls no. It should be "funny" to have knives as throwing weapons for thieves only, but I don't want a PoR/RD all over again.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, either knives and daggers have to have better might or else scrap them.

[Othin]

Why have knives in the first place?

[Cereal Bawks]

Because knives suck.

[KitheOfEvrark]

I suppose they could have thrown in a knife or dagger as one of the joke weapons with 1 Mt.

[Elieson]

But gius how do tey use buttr wifout knoifes

On a serious note:

Miniature Knife 1-2 range, 1 Mt, 35 crit or whatever the Miniature lance has.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Elieson

[BrightBow]

Why have knives in the first place?

Well, if nothing else Thieves and Assasins with heavy weapons is kinda silly. They are too noisy and to large to be hidden.

I think the more interesting questions is: Why have Thieves?

Just for the sake of saving some money on keys?

Edited April 25, 2013 by BrightBow

[Interceptor]

Knives were great in Radiant Dawn. Daggers were a failed experiment, but forgeable 1-2 range on Thieves was actually kind of nice.

[Othin]

Assassins, as a Myrmidon promotion, couldn't very well not have access to swords.

[cloudropis]

Oh, let's just wait for the My Unit's concept's general evolution! I bet in the next game it will be able to open doors and chests at distance and at will (other then natural SS rank staves, unlimited Physic staff, Beat-the-chapter button).

Seriously, knives is a logical, but ineffective concept. Thieves have low strenght, at least with swords we can keep them on par, but knives just sink them.

[BrightBow]

Assassins, as a Myrmidon promotion, couldn't very well not have access to swords.

Then... the problem is that Assassin is a Myrmidon promotion to begin with...? Seriously, I am pretty much the last person who likes this kind of nonsensical class changes.

Besides, if some random sell sword somehow managed to turn into a master of stealth... then yes. Yes, it does actually make sense. He would leave his sword at home in order to move fast and silently.

If he does use them anyway, he should probably temporal loose class benefits of being an Assassin.

Oh, let's just wait for the My Unit's concept's general evolution! I bet in the next game it will be able to open doors and chests at distance and at will (other then natural SS rank staves, unlimited Physic staff, Beat-the-chapter button).

Seriously, knives is a logical, but ineffective concept. Thieves have low strenght, at least with swords we can keep them on par, but knives just sink them.

The problem is not that knives make Thieves useless because they are weak already. That's the wrong way to look at it.

The problem is that Thieves as a class is useless because they have almost no utility. As specialists, they need to do things that others can't.

Not just for picking looks, stealing stuff and fixing bridges. For combat related skills, there are possibilities as well.

Like in "Battle For Wesnoth", Thieves deal triple damage when attacking an enemy already engaged in combat in the same turn. They have crazy avoid when faced on difficult terrain and can throw poisoned daggers (poison is actually useful here). And some more stuff that can't really apply to Fire Emblem.

So they have plenty of things that most other classes can't replicate, giving them the edge over these opponents when used cleverly... but still don't come close to match the raw strength them when fighting head-on.

Thieves can easily be more then simply being weaker Myrmidons. We don't need two versions of the same class just because Thieves are a D&D stable.

Edited April 25, 2013 by BrightBow

[Othin]

The problem is that the non-combat options aren't important enough in the first place. Since when must combat be the only way for characters to matter?

[BrightBow]

The problem is that the non-combat options aren't important enough in the first place. Since when must combat be the only way for characters to matter?

They don't of course, but... I kinda can't come up that easily with many things that doesn't put you at risk to hit a death end because your Thief is dead. Well, assuming you were responding to me...

I am all for more useful non-combat utility. I hope I didn't sound otherwise.

[Junkhead]

Well, if nothing else Thieves and Assasins with heavy weapons is kinda silly. They are too noisy and to large to be hidden.

I agree with this. But when in the middle of a war, I think it's pretty obvious if someone covered in a cape just comes up to you and...yeah.

I actually wished the other FE games had knives in previous installments of the series. because I found it silly that they used swords and were using knives in their animations.

Knives were great in Radiant Dawn. Daggers were a failed experiment, but forgeable 1-2 range on Thieves was actually kind of nice.

I think it's pretty obvious they refer to knives as a whole. You know, the whole weapon type.

Knives were alright to some point, but I think that's mostly due having the advantage of having a Jeigan thief. After that, they're relatively mediocre, and their Silver counterpart only has a measly 15 uses.

[cloudropis]

I see your point BB. I said that because it's hard to think for a new utility for thieves in Fire Emblem indeed. IS just sees them as cardboard silhouettes to throw just when there are chests or doors. A redoning would be great, but to fully consider all the possible changes, it'd be best to think of thieves as the same thing of assassins. Usually thieves are good at knifin' people from behind.

Maybe a combat indirect ability? Like more movement and and enhanced Canto, a la galeforce: after doing any action, they can move again. They would still be squishy, but useful for litteral hit&run tactics, like killing a mage in the back row and coming back, out of harm.

[Interceptor]

I think it's pretty obvious they refer to knives as a whole. You know, the whole weapon type.

I think it's pretty obvious that I was also referring to Knives as a whole: knives and daggers. One part was perhaps worth saving, the other not so much. Is there a point to this comment other than poking an 8-bit dog with a stick? Because I don't have a lot of patience for people who nitpick for no particular reason.

Knives were alright to some point, but I think that's mostly due having the advantage of having a Jeigan thief. After that, they're relatively mediocre, and their Silver counterpart only has a measly 15 uses.

Seems to me like being useful within the context of the game, justifies their existence there. There's no reason it couldn't have also been done here, albeit with some necessary adjustments.

[Othin]

I guess it would be pretty near to see throwing knives show up as a sub-category of swords available to Thieves and Assassins. Could add some other options, as well.

They really could've done more with the class-specific weapons. Like with magic. Make Naga available specifically to Clerics and War Clerics using their staff rank, like in FE9 and add a couple other spells as well to round it out. Even if they were weak, it'd be worth it as a bonus. Then, while keeping a single Tome tank, they could make wind/fire/thunder a bit more class-restricted to keep a bit more variety, something like this:

Mage: Wind/Fire

Dark Mage: Thunder/Dark

Sage: Wind/Fire/Thunder

Dark Knight: Wind/Thunder

Sorcerer: Fire/Thunder/Dark

Valkyrie: Wind/Fire

Dark Flier: Fire/Thunder

Dread Fighter: Fire

Edited April 25, 2013 by Othin

[Anouleth]

You know, there are places on the internet, places even on this very site where you can actually look up the stats of daggers in FE10 and see that daggers had competitive base statistics in FE10. Silver Daggers have the same MT as Silver Swords, but more hit and more crit. Steel Daggers had a whopping 1 less mt than Steel Swords. The only serious "downside" of daggers was that you couldn't forge them, but that clearly wouldn't have been an issue in this game because every weapon can be forged.

Really, I would have liked to see Knives just so thieves don't hold giant swords in that horribly awkward backhand stance. It's especially ridiculous with dimunitive females like Anna, who often do it with swords almost as large as their whole bodies.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Anouleth

[Interceptor]

You can't hand-wave or "scare-quote" the inability to forge. It's a huge component of the gap between daggers and swords in FE10.

[Forrest]

I dunno about the comparison of them back in FE9/10, but I can say that throwing knives would have been a nice cheap ranged sword option. Not only that, it'd be a lot more visually normal than, say, throwing Amatsu or Ragnell. Though throwing full-on swords is pretty hilarious.

[Djing]

Knives can also be implemented with unique effects like dark magic.

There could be a knife with a ridiculous crit rate like ruin, a knife that functions as a cheap brave weapon like waste and maybe even knives that gives abilities like counter or lifetaker.

They just need to be forgeable or creatively implemented

[Melonhead]

I could see knives being used as mini brave weapons or having crazy high crit rates. Heck, a 100% luna activation dagger with 0 mt would be kinda cool.

[Anouleth]

You can't hand-wave or "scare-quote" the inability to forge. It's a huge component of the gap between daggers and swords in FE10.

Except that the inability to forge Daggers in FE10 is immaterial to the question of whether or not they should have been included in FE13, since you can forge every non-legendary weapon, cooking implement and log you come across.