Thought Experiment: Enemy Skills

[Laurent]

It's hard to deny that enemy skills would be very useful if you could place them on your characters.

How would you use these these skills if they were available to you (in both the endgame and in streetpass)?

What characters would you give them to?

What skill combinations (with both enemy and regular skills) would you use?

What strategies would these skills allow you to do?

Let's also be realistic here and assume that these skills wouldn't be easy to obtain (with dragonskin being the most difficult).

Here's a reference for the enemy skills, the full version can be found at the bottom of the skills link in the Awakening section.

http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skills.html

Icon

Skill Name

Effect

Dragonskin

Halves damage, negates Counter and Lethality

Hit Rate +10

Hit rate +10

Rightful God

Adds 30% to Skill activation rates

Vantage+

Always attack first during the enemy's Turn

Luna+

Every attack has a Luna effect

Hawkeye

Attacks always strike the enemy

Pavise+

Halves damage from swords, lances, axes (includes magical variants) and beaststones *

Aegis+

Halves damage from bows, tomes and dragonstones *

Let the thought experiment begin!!!

[eclipse]

Rightful God, Dragonskin, Sol, Limit Breaker/Galeforce, Armsthrift on something that can use Nosferatu. As long as you do damage, you are immortal.

(if Nosferatu and Sol cancel each other out, boo)

[47948201]

HIT RATE+10 ON EVERYTHING GOGOGO

Erm...

All the enemy skills are just improved versions of player skills. A build that wants Aegis and Pavise would just substitute Aegis+ and Pavise+ or Dragonskin, while one that involves Rightful King switches to Rightful God. With the possible exception of Hawkeye, I don't think any of these skills would change anything as a whole (can't think of a better way to phrase that).

Those who disagree, it could be interesting to see what you come up with that would be impossible (not just inferior) with normal skills.

[Sublime Manic]

For Streetpass:

For Streetpass, Dragonskin would hugely change what skills people considered good for their team to have, since Counter and Fatality are considered some of the strongest skills for that setting and would be rendered useless, but Dragonskin would then become necessary.

Hawkeye would mean people could dump all of their forge modifications into Mt and Crit, and would make Slayer skills useless and I imagine it would be considered a necessity for Streetpass as well.

What other skills people might want would vary, but Vantage+ and Luna+ would certainly be very popular since they always activate. Setups including those would be less likely to use Rightful God, though, since they don't need activation rate boosts.

Dragonskin, Hawkeye, Vantage+, Luna+, and Limitbreak on literally every unit for Streetpass would make it far less prone to luck with avoiding things like Lethality, which I rather love the idea of. I imagine people would start paying a lot more attention to caps and possibly try to get lucky with weapons forged for lots of crit on their teams.

For Endgame:

Rightful God+Lethality for most situations.

[euklyd]

Rightful God, Dragonskin, Sol, Limit Breaker/Galeforce, Armsthrift on something that can use Nosferatu. As long as you do damage, you are immortal.

(if Nosferatu and Sol cancel each other out, boo)

They do stack, although if you do an odd amount of damage, you will regain [dmg-1] HP (for example, 41 dmg dealt translates to 40 HP gained).

Dragonskin, Aegis+, Pavise+, LB, Armsthrift with a forged Aversa's Night will reduce damage more, while still regaining enough HP - actually, you will be better off, because Aegis+/Pavise+ will always half damage, while Sol only sometimes doubles healing. Luna+ might be interesting for dealing more damage, though.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Euklyd

[eclipse]

They do stack, although if you do an odd amount of damage, you will regain [dmg-1] HP (for example, 41 dmg dealt translates to 40 HP gained).

Dragonskin, Aegis+, Pavise+, LB, Armsthrift with a forged Aversa's Night will reduce damage more, while still regaining enough HP - actually, you will be better off, because Aegis+/Pavise+ will always half damage, while Sol only sometimes doubles healing. Luna+ might be interesting for dealing more damage, though.

Now, let's pretend that I wanted to make the silliest Solferatu unit possible. Here's what we'll need:

- Yarne, with Lon'qu as the father (+6 Skill)

- Female Avatar with +Skl/-Def (the flaw could be a few other things, but -Def doesn't touch magic or skill; this gives +4 Skill)

- Yarne and Avatar to have a baby

The Sorcerer's natural skill cap is 38. This particular Morgan will have a +10 max Skill modifier. Limit Breaker adds another 10 (grand total's up to 58 Skill). Sol's proc is equal to Skill and Rightful God adds 30% to skill activation rates. That's 88% Sol with this setup. This is before counting pair-up bonuses (I believe that's another +8 Skill). Forge a super-accurate vampiric tome, and it's off to the races!

(any and all corrections are welcome)

EDIT: Throw in a Rally Spectrum/Skill, and enjoy a full turn of guaranteed healing.

Edited May 8, 2013 by eclipse

[euklyd]

Now, let's pretend that I wanted to make the silliest Solferatu unit possible. Here's what we'll need:

- Yarne, with Lon'qu as the father (+6 Skill)

- Female Avatar with +Skl/-Def (the flaw could be a few other things, but -Def doesn't touch magic or skill; this gives +4 Skill)

- Yarne and Avatar to have a baby

The Sorcerer's natural skill cap is 38. This particular Morgan will have a +10 max Skill modifier. Limit Breaker adds another 10 (grand total's up to 58 Skill). Sol's proc is equal to Skill and Rightful God adds 30% to skill activation rates. That's 88% Sol with this setup. Swig tonics if you're nervous about the RNG being a jerk. Forge a super-accurate vampiric tome, and it's off to the races!

(any and all corrections are welcome)

This is probably the best (or close to the best) Solferatu set-up possible, but I'm still just not sure how Sol/RG combo (or Solferatu in general) beats out the Aegis+/Pavise+ combo, since we're in this hypothetical universe to begin with, and so have access to Aegis+/Pavise+.

The first doubles healing 88% of the time, while the second halves damage 100% of the time.

I wonder: do (would) Rightful King and Rightful God stack?

[eclipse]

This is probably the best (or close to the best) Solferatu set-up possible, but I'm still just not sure how Sol/RG combo (or Solferatu in general) beats out the Aegis+/Pavise+ combo, since we're in this hypothetical universe to begin with, and so have access to Aegis+/Pavise+.

The first doubles healing 88% of the time, while the second halves damage 100% of the time.

I wonder: do (would) Rightful King and Rightful God stack?

I edited it because I forgot about pair-up bonuses; it's now 96% at max (support default promoted Noire/Severa or Yarne in his default class for best results).

If Rightful King and Rightful God stacked, then hitting the theoretical max would be easier, and it would offset Chrom's barely-existent Skill modifier.

[Meteor]

Nosferatu + unboosted Sol is already ridiculous, and when you can also ignore Counter/Lethality, you have nothing to fear except maybe a brave quadruple Aether. IMO it would be way better to use PavAegis+, and rely on a healer if you actually take damage.

[shadykid]

Hawkeye, Dragonskin, (Aegis+/Pavise+ or Vantage+/Luna+), Limit Breaker

there should be a Lethality+ to make everyone ragequit

Edited May 8, 2013 by shadykid

[Othin]

What exactly do you mean by "not easy to obtain"? Without knowing that, it's impossible to tell what impact it would have.

[Karasz]

Rightful God, Lethality, Hawkeye, Despoil, Armsthrift

You're practically assured to never wear down weapons and get bullions after every kill. Plus, always being able to hit the enemy is a good thing to have when running unit through a map on their own.

[shadykid]

on second thought: Lethality, Rightful God, Rightful King, Limit Breaker, Hawkeye

maximizing that OHKO chance

[Dai]

Dragonskin, Luna+, Vantage+, Hawkeye, and Limit Breaker. :\ That's how I'd do it, I guess. Pretty hard to defeat an enemy THAT mighty. Possible, but difficult.

[shadowofchaos]

I'm just gonna wait until I have memory access to the 3DS.

Then there wouldn't need to be topics like this.

[Laurent]

What exactly do you mean by "not easy to obtain"? Without knowing that, it's impossible to tell what impact it would have.

Just to try to keep people from listing 4 of these skills and limit breaker, to see how you can enhance ordinary skill sets with these. Not as if I expected it to work...

[shadowofchaos]

assume that these skills wouldn't be easy to obtain (with dragonskin being the most difficult).

How hard to obtain, you ask?

Because they both have:

Rightful King

Adds 10% to Skill activation rates

Their child would obviously have:

Rightful God

Adds 30% to Skill activation rates

FE4 Mechanics.

Edited May 8, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Othin]

Just to try to keep people from listing 4 of these skills and limit breaker, to see how you can enhance ordinary skill sets with these. Not as if I expected it to work...

So like a cap of 1-2 of them?

How hard to obtain, you ask?

Because they both have:

Rightful King

Adds 10% to Skill activation rates

Their child would obviously have:

Rightful God

Adds 30% to Skill activation rates

FE4 Mechanics.

Well you've got to balance that against the birth defects.

[Anouleth]

Rightful God, Limit Breaker, Miracle, Hawkeye, and Rightful King.

With 45 Luck, you only need to get +15 luck from Pair Up or Rally Luck in order to have 100% Miracle activation rate. The only things that can kill you like this are multiple hitting opponents, or enemies with extremely high resistance so you can't deal damage with Nosferatu.