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Gharnef's Improved FE4 Translation Patch


Gharnef
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Following up on a comment from Arch, can someone explain where "Tailto" came from? I've played all but the NES and Radiant FEs, so I'm a vet of the series but haven't followed the Japanese media and other stuff (like the Super Tactics Book, manga or Treasures) very closely.

Japanese FE media likes to give "official romanizations" (which i'll henceforth refer to as NoJ names for simplicity's sake), which are basically their interpretations of the Japanese names of characters rendered in English, as seen in the TCG and the Museum website; in the case of Tiltyu, "Tailto" is her official romanization, but everyone calls her Tiltyu instead. in most cases the fandom as a whole has actually been using NoJ names for years as the primary names they give to characters (Celice is the biggest example that comes to mind), although there are a few exceptions to this usage (nobody uses Siglud, Rackesis or Tailto for example)

Edited by bookofholsety
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Gah! I didn't change dastard -> bastard, I swear! I'm gonna make sure all bastards -> dastard because yeah.

Dastard -> Bastard has been in the patch for a while.

Since Awakening uses both bastard and dastard, hopefully, people won't complain about censorship.

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Dastard -> Bastard has been in the patch for a while.

Since Awakening uses both bastard and dastard, hopefully, people won't complain about censorship.

I think that B word was probably only found in Sully's Confession scene with Robin (I am pretty sure that none of the other scripts in FE13 have that word)

I think that Dastard might probably be good enough to replace the other one instead.

And also, I think that we should keep Mage Knight since they appeared in FE8 too.

Edited by King Marth 64
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I've actually been wondering where 'Tiltyu' comes from for a while now.

It's neither the official romanization of the character nor is it any of the common names for the deity that she appears to be named for. It seems to be a creation unique to this franchise.

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Keep Mage Knight. Dark Knight and Mage Knight seem to be different classes despite sharing weapon proficiency.

The issue is a bit wierd because both Azel and Ares appear in Awakeing with Dark Knight as their class. Ares has this class because of his 'Black Knight' title and Azel has ti because it'sa direct counterpart.

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Keep Mage Knight. Dark Knight and Mage Knight seem to be different classes despite sharing weapon proficiency.

The issue is a bit wierd because both Azel and Ares appear in Awakeing with Dark Knight as their class. Ares has this class because of his 'Black Knight' title and Azel has ti because it'sa direct counterpart.

Azel isn't in FE13. there's Arthur, but he's just a Mage both when recruited and in his Lost Bloodlines appearances; I guess there's Olwen and Selena, though

I've actually been wondering where 'Tiltyu' comes from for a while now.

It's neither the official romanization of the character nor is it any of the common names for the deity that she appears to be named for. It seems to be a creation unique to this franchise.

that's a good question. the two oldest sources of which i know don't use Tiltyu; i've got a practically ancient version of the fan translation sitting around which uses "Tailtiu", and the Super Tactics Book (released around the same time as the game itself?) used "Tiltue". my best guess is that people started calling her Tiltyu over a decade ago, before the fan translation really got anywhere or the Treasure artbook was released and gave an alternative, just sort of straight-up interpreting her katakana without any mind for mythological origin, and that unlike most other names from Treasure (see: Celice), people just kind of stuck with Tiltyu anyway. for anyone who was actually around the fandom back then, how far off the mark am i here? :P

speaking of which, i think i have to reiterate that i really like the idea of using "Taillte" instead; wikipedia calls that a "modern spelling" for the Irish deity in question. it's not a big deal if her name's left untouched though

Edited by bookofholsety
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Gah! I didn't change dastard -> bastard, I swear! I'm gonna make sure all bastards -> dastard because yeah...

Gonna jump on this one again.

Saying 'dastard' instead of 'bastard' is not the same thing as saying 'darn' instead of 'damn'. 'Dastard' is a distinct English word with a specific meaning different from 'bastard'. I'd actually wager that 'dastard' was used because that's the actual translation, and not because of some misguided need for censorship. When Sigurd calls Arvis a 'dastard', he's doing so because Arvis acted in a villainous, treacherous, cowardly way, not just because Arvis is a jerk.

So before you finalize these changes, you'll want to check with someone who knows Japanese to find out what the actual translation is

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Gonna jump on this one again.

Saying 'dastard' instead of 'bastard' is not the same thing as saying 'darn' instead of 'damn'. 'Dastard' is a distinct English word with a specific meaning different from 'bastard'. I'd actually wager that 'dastard' was used because that's the actual translation, and not because of some misguided need for censorship. When Sigurd calls Arvis a 'dastard', he's doing so because Arvis acted in a villainous, treacherous, cowardly way, not just because Arvis is a jerk.

So before you finalize these changes, you'll want to check with someone who knows Japanese to find out what the actual translation is

okay i think i've got this

in the Japanese script, Sigurd's final line is "アルヴィス! ・・・きさま!!" (romaji: aruvisu! ...kisama!!). "kisama" literally translates to "you", but with a specific connotation of exceptional rudeness and insult, widely heard in Japanese fiction in the context of it being yelled angrily at one's enemies

in that respect i'd side with "bastard" on this one - considering he's just been backstabbed and is about to be executed, Sigurd has a damn good reason to be angry, and imo "dastard" just doesn't feel angry enough for it. i mean come on, who even SAYS "dastard" anymore outside of FE games? :P another viable translation is "damn you". either way, for best results i recommend all-caps :P

Edited by bookofholsety
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Ditto on the use of "dastard". Was fun while it lasted.

About the ending scripts: there's actually an ending generator somewhere. Scripts are all over the internet too, if you're inclined to look.

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About the ending scripts: there's actually an ending generator somewhere. Scripts are all over the internet too, if you're inclined to look.

got them: the ending sequence where everyone talks to Seliph is here, while the map epilogue narration is here; the former was translated by Summerwolf, while AceNoctali is responsible for the latter. sadly the ending generator using the former no longer seems to exist; the link to it here is dead

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Japanese FE media likes to give "official romanizations" (which i'll henceforth refer to as NoJ names for simplicity's sake), which are basically their interpretations of the Japanese names of characters rendered in English, as seen in the TCG and the Museum website; in the case of Tiltyu, "Tailto" is her official romanization, but everyone calls her Tiltyu instead. in most cases the fandom as a whole has actually been using NoJ names for years as the primary names they give to characters (Celice is the biggest example that comes to mind), although there are a few exceptions to this usage (nobody uses Siglud, Rackesis or Tailto for example)

Thanks for the link, I've got a better understanding now of where the names come from. I'm inclined to go back to Tiltyu. I was hoping for some "hard and fast" rule, like "use everything from the museum" but that uses friggin' Siglud and Tailto. And then they use Ira, which was NoA'd to Ayra. So now my head's spinning.

tldr: I'm cool staying the course on Tinny, Tiltyu, etc. if they haven't been NoA'd and their names are otherwise stupid.

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Bastard: A word meaning someone born out of wedlock. While often used as an insult, it really isn't an insult.

Dastard: A word meaning a villain or treacherous deciever. Actually IS an insult.

Please keep using Dastard.

Also, as far as Tiltyu, which I prefer, it's worth noting that just because Fire Emblem games often use mythology for their weapon/character naming conventions, this doesn't mean that you always have to use the "ancient god" naming convention all the time. Besides, if Tiltyu is an original name just for FE4/5, makes it more unique and memorable, don't you think?

Edited by Klok
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Bastard: A word meaning someone born out of wedlock. While often used as an insult, it really isn't an insult.

Dastard: A word meaning a villain or treacherous deciever. Actually IS an insult.

Please keep using Dastard.

I side with Dastard for these reasons as well.

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Bastard: A word meaning someone born out of wedlock. While often used as an insult, it really isn't an insult.

Dastard: A word meaning a villain or treacherous deciever. Actually IS an insult.

Please keep using Dastard.

Also, as far as Tiltyu, which I prefer, it's worth noting that just because Fire Emblem games often use mythology for their weapon/character naming conventions, this doesn't mean that you always have to use the "ancient god" naming convention all the time. Besides, if Tiltyu is an original name just for FE4/5, makes it more unique and memorable, don't you think?

Dastard/Bastard ... I think after reading book'o'holsety's interpretation of the Japanese literal translation I'm going to go with "Arvis ... DAMN YOU!" instead of calling him a (b|d)astard. In terms of other uses, I'm thinking "dastard" because of the definitions.

Yeah, it's clear that real mythology influences all kinds of stuff - especially this game in particular. I don't think just going with the real mythological name for things makes sense unless it's clearly supposed to be that way. Belhalla clearly references Valhalla, Briggid references Brigid, Cigyun:Sigyn, Loptyr:Loki, Tordo, Tor Hammer blah blah - we all get it.

My initial militancy on stuff like "Tiltyu ->Tailto" was because I thought it was 'official.' Now I understand that if we haven't seen it in an official NoA capacity - FE13 chars, for example, or other artwork - then it's really not official.

That being said, while 'Briggid' (Brigid) and 'Claud' (vs. Claude) aren't official, they're listed in the museum as such... and for Briggid, she's clearly referencing the Celtic Brigid, so I think this is a good interpretation. I'm thinking the priority for name changing is:

  • Check for Official NoA name.
  • No Official NoA? Check the Museum.
  • Museum name stupid compared to well known name? Use well known name.
Following 3, I think we should undo Tailto & Teeny Edited by Gharnef
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Dastard/Bastard ... I think after reading book'o'holsety's interpretation of the Japanese literal translation I'm going to go with "Arvis ... DAMN YOU!" instead of calling him a (b|d)astard. In terms of other uses, I'm thinking "dastard" because of the definitions.

That works too. "Damn you, you dastard!"

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I want to point out that the ingame romanization of the Lord character in the first Fire Emblem is Marth. Even though his name going by the kana and setting of the original refers to Mars, a war god.

Point is, even if a name really can be shown to refer to a mythological figure, that doesn't automatically mean the name would be spelt the same as said figure's name ingame or in other sources that come from IS.

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if you want, i'd love a shot at giving untranslated things a translation. i'm no professional by any means, but writing is pretty much my only skill so i should be able to shit out something that at the very least is better than the FE6 patch's script :P

(i also wouldn't mind going through and revising the rest of the script, but that's obviously less urgent)

Gharnef, what's your take on getting the rest of the untranslated stuff translated (plus the freezing glitch). It'd obviously have to wait until you're done making the current changes, but would you be interested in doing it?

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Bastard: A word meaning someone born out of wedlock. While often used as an insult, it really isn't an insult.

Dastard: A word meaning a villain or treacherous deciever. Actually IS an insult.

Please keep using Dastard.

i'm going to have to disagree here - while this is true, there's a pretty big difference between literal meaning and colloquial usage. you'd be hard-pressed to find a modern use of "bastard" which isn't meant in the angry insult sense, and nobody in their right mind would look at this scene in FE4 with this particular word and think "oh Sigurd is claiming that Arvis is an illegitimate child"; reading comprehension is just as much about context as it is literal meaning, and it's abundantly clear exactly which usage of "bastard" is intended in this particular context. if you're sticking with the (b/d)astard line, dastard is the inferior option no matter how you slice it - even if its meaning literally fits, the context of its utterance makes it feel like a flimsy option which reeks of misguided censorship under the mistaken assumption that the two words are contextually interchangeable (they aren't)

i mean come on if we're going for 100000% literal English with no ambiguity, the line would be like "Arvis you have betrayed me and sentenced me to death and i am angry about it", because last i checked Sigurd isn't literally sending Arvis to hell at the very moment of his execution either

okay i'm done overanalysing a single three-word line honestly i don't mind all that much and "damn you" is probably the better option idk

Edited by bookofholsety
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oh my i am really liking "Taillte" as a possible name for the character

now if we were to really nitpick i'd talk about doing something about "Noish"; that's always really irked me. i think an earlier guidebook rendered his name as "Noische" instead? it strikes me as a viable alternative

also all this talk about the magic sword name endings is pretty immaterial - as the patch stands, there's no room for anything past just the first word in its name and there's no point worrying about whether it should be Sword or Brand or Edge :P

final note: there was some talk about some graphical hacking to update graphic text. if you can get your hands on someone capable of handling the technical side of it, i'd love to do the actual editing of the graphics. hell, i've done some already out of sheer boredom

Oh my god! These graphics are awesome! Gharnef, insert these graphics into the next patch please, and let bookofholsety edit the graphics!!!
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Oh my god! These graphics are awesome! Gharnef, insert these graphics into the next patch please, and let bookofholsety edit the graphics!!!

Slow down there, Andretti ... :)

I'd LOVE to do this (as well as update the world Map - "Grandbell" et cetera - and the Holy Blood chart, and more) but I'm not quite there yet. Editing sprites shouldn't be too bad but the FE logo splash screen, for example, isn't a sprite - it's shown as a background. There are some things you can see in TLP if you open up the ROM, so those could easily be edited (because they're sprites I think?). But then again I don't know much about ROM hacking so I could be talking out of my butt.

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Gharnef, what's your take on getting the rest of the untranslated stuff translated (plus the freezing glitch). It'd obviously have to wait until you're done making the current changes, but would you be interested in doing it?

TBH it's not my immediate goal (that's just updating existing scripts to be more consistent with the current mythology) but something to put on the TODO list.

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