Rate the unit day 20: Nowi

[Randa]

Yes I am gonna start this tommorow at 600 EST.

I understand that a lot of people are opposed to these returning at all and just wish people would forget about them. However I believe that if handled correctly they may be helpful to new players or folks that just want to try new characters and need a basis on where to start.

As a side note this will be done in the same fashion as the pokemon threads in that all days will be done in the same thread.

The point of a day zero is that from now to 2200 EST I will be discussing potential rules changes and anti-flaming measures with anybody willing to do so. I will still take ideas past 2200 but I will not be able to discuss them with people as I will be offline.

The rules written specifically for awakening.

1. Each first generation character shall be rated before any second gen(Lucina included) character.

2. The ratings are on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being the worst and 10 being the best.

3. One plus or minus bias point may be applied to any character. (The total score may not be lower than 0 and may not exceed 10). (on parole please specifically state when bias is applied. I hold the right to remove this rule at anytime.)

4. Rate a character on their merits in combat or utility. Utility is classified as stealing, healing, or dancing. Utility does not include double bonuses, worth as a parent, or anything like them.

5. Do not lower the character's rating based on the abilities of another unit to do the same job.

6. Recruiting other characters is irrelevant to this topic. So Chrom doesn't get extra points for recruiting libra or stuff like that.

7. All characters will be recruited.

8. The ratings will be based off of hard mode.

Anti-flame rules:

1. You will be given three strikes throughout the entire RTU about flaming and if you exceed three all your contributions up to that point and beyond it will be ignored.

2. Do not insult another person based on their opinion.(1 strike per occurrence)

3. Do not derail the thread with a useless argument in which you repeatedly make the same point. This not a debate thread. (1 strike per occurrence)

4. Do not try to start a flame war. (If in the opinion of myself or a mod this occurs you will receive 2 strikes.)

The above rules will be followed strictly in an attempt to keep this civilized.

Requests:

1. If you do not support the idea of this please do not post that it is stupid and that I should go burn in hell. Just don't participate.

2. I would like the mods to each post in this thread wether or not they think this should be locked immediately. If one of the Admins thinks that this shouldn't exist please lock this thread. If 4 of the 7 mods believe it shouldn't happen please lock this thread.

3. If you have an issue or anything please get in contact with me or any of the mods.

4. Please keep this civillized, if I believe it gets out hand I will ask to have it locked.

P.S.

I am willing to push back the start of this two weeks if people need more time to form a valid opinion.

P.P.S.

If you have a short reply and somebody ask you to elaborate please do so. Just a courtesy thing.

Scores without bias

Donnel: 1.78

Virion: 2.62

Ricken: 4

Gregor: 4.38

Maribelle:4.75

Kellam:4.76

Miriel: 5.35

Lisaa : 5.41

Gaius: 5.57

Lon'gu:6.45

Vaike: 7.18

Frederick: 7.23

Chrom: 7.98

Bunny lady(Panne): 8.11

Stahl: 8.2

Sully: 8.28

Sumia: 8.35

Cordelia: 8.63

Male MU:9.88

Female MU:9.9

Scores with bias

Donnel: 2.06

Virion: 2.94

Ricken: 4.02

Gregor: 4.74

Kellam:4.97

Mariebelle: 4.99

Miriel: 5.26

Lisaa 5.56

Gaius: 5.80

Lon'gu:6.67

frederick:7.23

Vaike: 7.5

Chrom: 7.91

Demon bunny(Panne): 8.07

Sully: 8.14

Sumia:8.23

Cordelia: 8.43

Stahl 8.43

Male MU:9.53

Female MU:9.8

For active discussion about the ratings and other things that come up please head over here

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40342

Edited June 9, 2013 by Randa

[Constable Reggie]

How will second gen characters' consideration of parents be taken into account? Why are double bonuses and parent worth not allowed to be considered in the score?

Edited May 19, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[ZemZem]

We definitely should have a RTU if people against RTUs don't post their negative opinions at all.

I think the kids should be rated however anyone wants to rate them, like say if someone grades Cynthia with Chrom as her father. Skills are taken to account, and Cynthia's performance would be graded like that, or something. I dunno.

[Randa]

How will second gen characters' consideration of parents be taken into account? Why are double bonuses and parent worth not allowed to be considered in the score?

I don't believe that the double bonuses have any active contribution towards a characters worth, with the exception of Fredrick. I also don't think should rate a character on how good a parent they are because then units like donnel who have a hard time being an active team member but passes on good skills and a good class set would have inflated ratings making people think that they are a very useful unit throughout the whole game. Again I'm open to suggestion I'll put up a poll and I will see what everyone thinks.

On the kids I don't have a solid plan yet. I might rate everyone possible combination. But right now I'm leaning towards polling the best farther.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Randa

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Personally im troubled by the opinion of Min Maxers clashing with.... normal FE players*. Of course not many cares for min maxing around here so its not as much of a problem. You can split it into "Min Max" and "In game" if some actually want to do it though

Also Double Bonus should count. Many units are amazing as Pair Up fodder and nothing else. Gaius is a good example of this since if you can early promote him, he give a nice bonus from Assassin for some units to play with.

Or early promote Gregor which is pretty nice

Another example is Sully and Stahl who provides Solid Bonus.which is quite nice for their overall worth IMO

*want a good example? Inigo. Min Maxers worshiped Inigo to hell and back while he has terrible overall alvailability and base

Edited May 19, 2013 by JSND

[Randa]

Personally im troubled by the opinion of Min Maxers clashing with.... normal FE players*. Of course not many cares for min maxing around here so its not as much of a problem

Also Double Bonus should count. Many units are amazing as Pair Up fodder and nothing else. Gaius is a good example of this since if you can early promote him, he give a nice bonus from Assassin for some units to play with.

Or early promote Gregor which is pretty nice

Another example is Sully and Stahl who provides Solid Bonus.which is quite nice for their overall worth IMO

*want a good example? Inigo. Min Maxers worshiped Inigo to hell and back while he has terrible overall alvailability and base

I think what I'm gonna do with this is leave the style of play up to the adjucticator and how want to play. Efficiency, LTC, or shiny green numbers is up to you.

[Espinosa]

I think there is much to learn from RTU threads unless the bullshit makes all the people who have something valuable to say ignore the threads or tone themselves down to one-liners or something (which has happened in the past to an extent).

[Chiki]

Please don't ban certain people from rating like some other people did just because they had a varying opinion.

[Randa]

Please don't ban certain people from rating like some other people did just because they had a varying opinion.

That was never my intention. The only reason for a ban would be if they violated the rules against flaming. Nothing based on your opinion can get you banned just your actions.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

HM or LM?

[Randa]

HM or LM?

Thank you for reminding me it will be played on hard mode because lunatic can be a bit restricting.

[PK Gaming]

bias system should be abolished because its fucking stupid

completely goes against the point of rating a character in the first place

[Nintendan]

I don't really see the point in the bias system tbh.

I mean, if you think the until deserves a higher score then... give them a higher score.

Otherwise, you'll just end up giving scores that aren't even your own. Instead you'd rate them and then randomly give a +1 or -1 to them. Just settle on one number that you think the unit is worthy of imo.

[Randa]

I believe the original point is to give or remove points based on criteria that aren't listed and shouldn't have a major impact.

[Chiki]

If he really wants to help people, he won't let people rate crap like Miriel 10/10 just because that person has a glasses fetish.

[Randa]

If he really wants to help people, he won't let people rate crap like Miriel 10/10 just because that person has a glasses fetish.

In that instance I would request an elaboration on why and then based on that have them give a reasonable score and then they can add a point bias. If they do not cooperate then their would be ignored for that round.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

>_> Im going to rate Virion pretty high as sad as that sounds

Personally the elaboration part is the real draw of RTU IMO

Edited May 19, 2013 by JSND

[Colonel M]

Who's ready to rate MU 0/10 with me because it breaks the game?

(Yeah get rid of bias por favor. Last I need is a whase / Banzai / Snowy invasion of utter nonsense).

[PK Gaming]

All the bias system does is create situations where crappy-but-popular characters have their scores inflated and good-but-unpopular characters and underrated. You're basically giving players with poor reasoning even more influence.

If you're serious about making this thread series have any sort of weight, then you should get rid of the bias system.

Edited May 19, 2013 by PK Gaming

[PKL]

Everyone that has less than 8 move sucks 0/10 wouldnt bang.

[SB.]

I liked the bias system. If its not there people will just work it into their ratings anyhow.

[Randa]

At this point I will remove it from the rules, but I would like to here suggestions on ways to improve it in anyway possible. It's one of those things that can help but it does need to be fixed.

[Florete]

I've never heard "Double" being used for Pair Up bonuses, where did that come from? The European version or something?

You're not going to get many mods posting in here, btw, definitely not all of them and likely none of the admins. However, I don't think any of them will outright say that this shouldn't exist, myself included.

For the poll, Pair Up bonuses definitely need to be included in a unit's worth. It determines who they make a good pair with. I also voted yes for parent bonuses, but I can see that going either way and in the end it probably doesn't affect much anyway.

Bias seems pretty pointless to me.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Japanese version

Double = Pair Up

Dual = Supports more or less, hence the term dual x+ and whatnot

Im surprised why the term is used again, but ehhhh

Edited May 19, 2013 by JSND

[Randa]

I believe that I have a compromise between those who want the bias system gone and those who want it to stay, but I still would like other people's opinion.

New bias system:

A bias may only be applied to three separate characters.

Only one point of bias may be applied to each character.

Bias can only be applied for the following reasons:

Personality

Appearance

Etc.

To apply a point of bias you must explain your original rating in depth and then tell why the bias is being applied.

If the above criteria are not met then the vote is invalid and you will be asked to resubmit you rating.