Lamest Skills Ever!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Defender should give Pair Up Bonus and work for the lead unit IMO

That being said, a Pair Up with Paladin gives a grand total of

8 STR

6 MAG

8 SKL

8 SPD

6 LCK

8 DEF

8 RES

As for Main game, you mosly get the +3 for Support Rank at best

Pretty cool and not too broken eh

Edited May 26, 2013 by JSND

[shadykid]

Looks like it might already be done, but no more "Galeforce" posts from here on out. Tangerine has already been given a stern talking to for what she did.

....not sure if serious

and no, that would make make Defender broken as hell (and Grandmasters still might arguably give better bonuses depending on class in that case anyway)

[Ein]

Looks like it might already be done, but no more "Galeforce" posts from here on out. Tangerine has already been given a stern talking to for what she did.

I can't tell whether you're serious or not.

[Florete]

....not sure if serious

I can't tell whether you're serious or not.

<_<

I don't want to see anymore posts that just say "Galeforce" from here on out. This is 100% serious. Even despite the fact that it obviously became a running joke in the topic, this is technically against the one-liner rule anyway.

[Tangerine]

Heeey, there was no "stern talking to"! I would've enjoyed that greatly :(.

I didn't think the joke would get that out of hand while I was gone though, lol! So yes, no more spam!

Edited May 27, 2013 by Tangerine

[shadykid]

<_<

I don't want to see anymore posts that just say "Galeforce" from here on out. This is 100% serious. Even despite the fact that it obviously became a running joke in the topic, this is technically against the one-liner rule anyway.

I meant the "Tangerine has already been given a stern talking to" part obviously

[Tables]

I think Charm is getting a lot of undue hate here.

Yes, +5 hit, +5 avoid isn't a huge bonus, but it's bigger than most people seem to think, and considering it affects everyone in 3 range (likely most of your party), and it works from the back, I think it's a very nice support skill. Especially, it's an avoid stack skill that is off unit, and avoid stacks can be mighty effective (bar Lunatic+, with Hawkeye). It's obviously not amazing - it's STILL only 5% avoid (and maybe 5% hit), but that 5% can be a big difference.

[Ein]

<_<

I don't want to see anymore posts that just say "Galeforce" from here on out. This is 100% serious. Even despite the fact that it obviously became a running joke in the topic, this is technically against the one-liner rule anyway.

Thought so.

Heeey, there was no "stern talking to"! I would've enjoyed that greatly :(.

I didn't think the joke would get that out of hand while I was gone though, lol! So yes, no more spam!

You should know this. Hell, even CPP and Furet posted. CPP and Furet. When do they ever do that other than to chew someone out for some stupid reason or say how something is stupid.

[shadykid]

I think Charm is getting a lot of undue hate here.

Yes, +5 hit, +5 avoid isn't a huge bonus, but it's bigger than most people seem to think, and considering it affects everyone in 3 range (likely most of your party), and it works from the back, I think it's a very nice support skill. Especially, it's an avoid stack skill that is off unit, and avoid stacks can be mighty effective (bar Lunatic+, with Hawkeye). It's obviously not amazing - it's STILL only 5% avoid (and maybe 5% hit), but that 5% can be a big difference.

this reminds me, Chrom skillset as a support bot?

i have Limit Break, Dual Attack+, Dual Guard+, Aggressor, what would be a good 5th skill

[Shadow Mir]

I think Charm is getting a lot of undue hate here.

Yes, +5 hit, +5 avoid isn't a huge bonus, but it's bigger than most people seem to think, and considering it affects everyone in 3 range (likely most of your party), and it works from the back, I think it's a very nice support skill. Especially, it's an avoid stack skill that is off unit, and avoid stacks can be mighty effective (bar Lunatic+, with Hawkeye). It's obviously not amazing - it's STILL only 5% avoid (and maybe 5% hit), but that 5% can be a big difference.

That's the thing - Charm's bonus is not enough, for one, and second, it's limited to Chrom and Lucina. Even ignoring the fact that it only affects male allies, Demoiselle's way better (and it has more distribution).

Edited May 27, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Fairlee]

indoor/outdoor - unreliable. crappy bonus + repetitive skill swapping

demoiselle - sexist skills. I usually use partly female and partly male

slow burn - too slow. the map always cleared already before hitting the max benefit

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

So, yeah

What exactly is bad about I/O fighter again?

Indoor Fighter i can see, but Outdoor seems pretty fine considering that most maps in this game is.... outdoors. its effectively something like say..... Quickburn/Tantivy etc that is acquired at level 10 on one of the best class in the game

Edited May 27, 2013 by JSND

[Tables]

So, yeah

What exactly is bad about I/O fighter again?

Indoor Fighter i can see, but Outdoor seems pretty fine considering that most maps in this game is.... outdoors. its effectively something like say..... Quickburn/Tantivy etc that is acquired at level 10 on one of the best class in the game

Same. People underrate how useful avoid boosts are. Outdoor fighter is useless occasionally, and very good otherwise.

this reminds me, Chrom skillset as a support bot?

i have Limit Break, Dual Attack+, Dual Guard+, Aggressor, what would be a good 5th skill

Charm or hit +20. Probably Charm - +5 avoid to everyone in range (including the person you pair up Chrom with - just tested) is pretty great, as I mentioned before. +5 hit is also nice but likely won't matter much. The only other really possible option is Bowfaire, but you'd have probably included that already if you were using bows.

That's the thing - Charm's bonus is not enough, for one, and second, it's limited to Chrom and Lucina. Even ignoring the fact that it only affects male allies, Demoiselle's way better (and it has more distribution).

"Not enough?" Not enough in what way? Providing 5% avoid to four or five units and 5% hit to ten seems like enough and way more to me. Being limited to a character you have to deploy in almost every battle also doesn't seem like much of a downside to me, either, especially as one copy in your party is enough to boost almost everyone. Also, Pr. Marth has it. Demoiselle is about equal, I'd say - on the one hand 10% avoid is twice as good, but on the other it only affects half your party. If anything I might say Demoiselle is a little worse, because of true hit - if enemy hit drops below 50%, then every extra point of avoid is a little less effective than the one before it; enemy avoid tends to be below 50%, except early and very late on lunatic.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Tables

[shadykid]

Demoiselle sucks for my team cause it's mostly girls with Galeforce

[HeroMystic]

What exactly is bad about I/O fighter again?

I have no idea. I'm assuming the people who says Outdoor fighter is bad has never attempted Avoid stacking on Lunatic.

[Da Bear]

I don't understand the tags. Vaike is amazing both character-wise and unit-wise.

At any rate Armshift is beyond overrated...

But a bad skill would probably be Dual Support +

[Redwall]

The only person for whom Outdoor Fighter is a really good skill in a standard Lunatic playthrough is a Wyvern Lord Sully, except Sully is not nearly as good as Panne in Lunatic. Due to his low Spd, Fred doesn't dodge unless he's got WTA against the most inaccurate enemies. Lucina prefers to stay in the Lord tree because of Rapiers and higher Spd. As for Chrom, I suspect that most teams would benefit more from having him as a Pairbot more than a primary combatant after the early game.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Cavs Chrom has a solid bonus though?

Also its more Royal Rapiers more than Rapier itself. Comes Valm Arc, unforged Rapier is 3 MT more than Par Falc. I guess you can forge it but eh

[Shadow Mir]

"Not enough?" Not enough in what way? Providing 5% avoid to four or five units and 5% hit to ten seems like enough and way more to me. Being limited to a character you have to deploy in almost every battle also doesn't seem like much of a downside to me, either, especially as one copy in your party is enough to boost almost everyone. Also, Pr. Marth has it. Demoiselle is about equal, I'd say - on the one hand 10% avoid is twice as good, but on the other it only affects half your party. If anything I might say Demoiselle is a little worse, because of true hit - if enemy hit drops below 50%, then every extra point of avoid is a little less effective than the one before it; enemy avoid tends to be below 50%, except early and very late on lunatic.

I don't think expecting everyone deployed to be in range of Chrom is exactly reasonable... OTOH, Demoiselle allows me to counter Anathema or take a bite out of crime enemy crit rates, in addition to not being limited to 1-2 characters.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Tables]

I don't think expecting everyone deployed to be in range of Chrom is exactly reasonable... OTOH, Demoiselle allows me to counter Anathema or take a bite out of crime enemy crit rates, in addition to not bbeing limited to 1-2 characters.

Wait, Demoiselle affects crit? I thought it was avoid/hit, like Charm? If that's the case, yeah, Demoiselle is probably better. And I didn't say everyone, I said almost everyone. Which... well, maybe not always true, but most of the time, it'll affect over half the team at least.

Edit: Oh right, it's avoid/dodge. Which makes it worse than Charm, because enemies rarely have crit rates beyond the earlygame, even with killer weapons. The availability argument is kind of moot, because, again, Chrom gets Charm and he gets it pretty quickly. To get Demoiselle you have to train a Troubadour - not really a class you want to reclass into. If anything, Charm has better availability, since one character starts with it as well. Honestly, I don't see how you can find +10 avoid to half the party not roughly the same as half that bonus to twice as many characters.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Tables

[BrightBow]

I absolutely hate any +2 skill.

Sure, they could have just given the units with the skill +2 to their base stats but that would apparently have been to straightforward.

[Tables]

I absolutely hate any +2 skill.

Sure, they could have just given the units with the skill +2 to their base stats but that would apparently have been to straightforward.

But what happens when you remove the skill? Or reclass? It makes perfect sense to have it there as a skill in that context.

If you want to complain about the strength of them, though, go ahead.

[Shadow Mir]

Wait, Demoiselle affects crit? I thought it was avoid/hit, like Charm? If that's the case, yeah, Demoiselle is probably better. And I didn't say everyone, I said almost everyone. Which... well, maybe not always true, but most of the time, it'll affect over half the team at least.

Edit: Oh right, it's avoid/dodge. Which makes it worse than Charm, because enemies rarely have crit rates beyond the earlygame, even with killer weapons. The availability argument is kind of moot, because, again, Chrom gets Charm and he gets it pretty quickly. To get Demoiselle you have to train a Troubadour - not really a class you want to reclass into. If anything, Charm has better availability, since one character starts with it as well. Honestly, I don't see how you can find +10 avoid to half the party not roughly the same as half that bonus to twice as many characters.

Because I find a hit boost that'll never make a difference to be inferior to a dodge boost that might help avert nasty critical hits. And besides, in both Chrom and Lucina's cases, I'd probably be able to think of enough skills that would outprioritize Charm for a skill slot.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[BrightBow]

But what happens when you remove the skill? Or reclass? It makes perfect sense to have it there as a skill in that context.

If you want to complain about the strength of them, though, go ahead.

Even if I would reclass, there would be no difference between a +2 skill or having a base that is simply 2 points higher.

The skill would only matter if someone hits their absurdly high caps or has to give up a skill slot.

But whether it's hitting the caps or getting so many skills that one has to go, it can only by archived by hours of boring and tedious repetition.

Edited May 27, 2013 by BrightBow

[Zerker]

Res+2 when we have Res+10 from Dread Fighter.