Why is LTC hated?

[Chiki]

okay how about

every post in which you use "lol" as a totally unnecessary interjection

You failed to read my post.

The people who think I'm elitist for saying "casual"

That means elitist due to my using casual.

[dondon151]

so you don't think that there are other reasons?

[Chiki]

Don't change the subject. This is about the term casual. I said nothing about other reasons.

[Redwall]

When Alex Trebek laughed at a contestant for getting an answer wrong, it resulted in a viral video. I can't imagine how anyone would just shrug off getting laughed at on national TV.

The principle here is the same. When you needlessly interject with "Lol" and say things like "this person's RTU is bad and shouldn't be counted," feelings will be hurt. I don't think you're intending to hurt anyone's feelings, but either way, people will form opinions accordingly.

[dondon151]

Don't change the subject. This is about the term casual. I said nothing about other reasons.

who's changing the subject? need i remind you that this thread is designated to answer the question of why LTC is hated. i am merely providing a reason.

[Randa]

Don't change the subject. This is about the term casual. I said nothing about other reasons.

I thought the whole thread was about why people hate LTC. And eventually it got to why people hate you. Reasons for Both have been stated.

And for the record the term casual with the release of the last two games has gotten a negative meaning of inferiority to other players. At least call it classic. I mean the games easiest mode is on casual. You wonder why people are offended by it.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Randa

[PKL]

When Alex Trebek laughed at a contestant for getting an answer wrong, it resulted in a viral video. I can't imagine how anyone would just shrug off getting laughed at on national TV.

The principle here is the same. When you needlessly interject with "Lol" and say things like "this person's RTU is bad and shouldn't be counted," feelings will be hurt. I don't think you're intending to hurt anyone's feelings, but either way, people will form opinions accordingly.

I don't think Chiki has ever done that in a RTU so (?). I did call out Bear on what I thought was a troll rating though, but what I said about his terrible opinions was mostly joking (it's totally true though heehee)

Edited June 6, 2013 by Peekayell

[Sublime Manic]

I accused some people of insulting LTC players. He called us egomaniacs. He therefore insulted LTC players. That's all.

Please explain how telling certain LTC players they're egomaniacs constitutes an insult but telling certain people they're bad at a game does not. I think that would be a good starting point.

[Chiki]

I said "despite my saying everyone's ratings with a long enough reason should be counted, perhaps after this vote I've changed my mind." That was to someone rating Sumia 1/10. I did not say "your vote shouldn't be counted."

Please explain how telling certain LTC players they're egomaniacs constitutes an insult but telling certain people they're bad at a game does not. I think that would be a good starting point.

Because it's a video game.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Chiki

[Da Bear]

I don't think Chiki has ever done that in a RTU so (?). I did call out Bear on what I thought was a troll rating though, but what I said about his terrible opinions was mostly joking (it's totally true though heehee)

I may or may not have been in a terrible mood that day <_<

That said even if I had rated her more on her own merits and less as a "bite me" vote it wouldn't rise higher than 7.

Edited June 6, 2013 by bearclaw13

[Sublime Manic]

Okay...

I don't see how that prevents it from being an insult. Someone could just as easily argue that telling someone they're bad at a video game is an insult but telling someone they're an egomaniac is not because it's just describing a person.

[RJWalker]

I said "despite my saying everyone's ratings with a long enough reason should be counted, perhaps after this vote I've changed my mind." That was to someone rating Sumia 1/10. I did not say "your vote shouldn't be counted."

Because it's a video game.

An insult is an insult regardless of what we're talking about. Was it an insult in the first place? If the comments directed towards you were an insult, then some of your comments are also insults.

[Loki Laufeyson]

More to the point, we all play our games primarily for our own enjoyment; that's what games are all about.

In other words, if you don't enjoy playing a game, then it isn't really a game.

I try to get S-rank in FE7 HHM because I enjoy it. When I don't enjoy it, I stop doing it.

As for LTC, I see no reason to adhere to it strictly if you don't enjoy that sort of thing, but some people do. I generally dislike "Stop Having Fun" guys on general principle, since as I said, the whole point of playing games is to have fun, but LTC doesn't necessarily mean "Stop Having Fun."

Basically what i said earlier but people like to argue what "fun" means.

I don't think getting paired endings and such is much of an accomplishment for a hardcore player.

Orly? What about the completionists? Those guys are pretty hardcore to keep going through the various games to unlock supports and paired endings.

[Constable Reggie]

I don't think Chiki has ever done that in a RTU so (?). I did call out Bear on what I thought was a troll rating though, but what I said about his terrible opinions was mostly joking (it's totally true though heehee)

He literally just compained about people giving Panne [what he felt to be] high scores (scores, you know, that are consistent with Panne's position in the actual tier list), and while it's not exactly "lol this score is bad and shouldn't be counted", it's taken the same way.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Chiki]

Why is that a big deal? I think 8/10 for Panne is a better score than 10/10, even in the "actual" tier list (there's 4 tier lists).

[Constable Reggie]

Your elitism is bleeding through.

[Snowy_One]

How to get people to stop complaining about LTC elitism in 3 easy steps.

1) If you ever find yourself making an argument for or against any character based on turncount; stop.

2) If you say something that looks like it might feel insulting to anothers playstyle while discussing LTC; stop.

3) Offer ice cream.

[Sublime Manic]

Not throwing "lol" in unnecessarily when discussing things goes a long way too.

Especially when using it to summarize your understanding of what someone else is saying, and even more so if it's something you disagree with.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Sublime Manic

[MacLovin]

LTC is merely a reasonable measuring stick on a unit's performance.

sheesh.

Elitism would be bullying.

[Space Flower]

I think LTC is very weak compared to Elibe's ranking system. LTC is an absolute, min-maxing sort of thing. It demands that you exploit the game as much as possible and throw away any useless units. S-ranks in FE6/7 were benchmarks and you could still use essentially whoever you wanted.

The game itself is simply not designed with LTC in mind. FE6/7 were designed with their ranking systems in mind. I have literally no clue why IS did away with them afterward.

[Sublime Manic]

It occurs to me that I haven't even addressed the original post of this thread: I rather like the idea of LTC and am glad that more and more tier lists are being made for it exclusively. I honestly don't see much "hate" for LTC, either. How often has someone explicitly stated they hate LTC? The only person I can think of that comes anywhere near that sort of territory is Snowy, who is known to have some pretty extremist and generally disagreeable views on the matter. For many people, it's not their cup of tea but that doesn't mean they hold anything against the style of play, itself. Personally, I like dabbling in various types of challenge runs but have never attempted an absolute LTC for a game. For me, it's more fun to try and beat my lowest turn count while simultaneously using worse units or getting the lowest turn counts I can with my favorite characters or doing as well as I can with other sorts of restrictions.

Chiki, you articulate a lot of things that the vast majority of people would consider to be subjective or a matter of opinion and claim them as factual or absolutes. And it's really off-putting to a lot of people. Saying that anyone who calls any LTC players people with large egos, or even just elitist is personally attacking them and that this is a matter of fact is a good example. Not everyone agrees that calling someone an elitist is a personal attack on that person.

Throwing "lol" around as loosely as you do when summarizing things other people say also comes off as belittling, demeaning, and elitist (and just unnecessary and bitchy in general) to a lot of people, too.

Perhaps it's unintentional, but the way you carry yourself and interact with people who disagree with you is unpleasant for a lot of people. And it comes off as very - here comes the so-called personal attack - elitist. And you now have something of a reputation for this, it would seem. If people think you're elitist, it's hardly because of how you use the term "casual."

And you're going around saying people take a video game too seriously. In a topic about a style of play for video games. That you yourself have articulated isn't always played just for fun. A topic you're invested in seriously enough to start. On a forum for a specific video game series where all the members are at least invested in the series enough to join. It's rather rich.

I'd say that people who think being told they have a big ego is a personal attack are taking themselves too seriously. But then… if they're taking it so personally, that would be a testament to them having a big ego, wouldn't it? So perhaps that point is moot.

[PKL]

In LTC you do not have to "throw away useless units"...sigh, when will those comments stop >_>. I've LTC'd FE9 with ROLF, sometimes BROM in my team. Same with FE10. You can get away with using bad units in LTC too. Of course, the core of the best units needs to be there to save the most turns.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Peekayell

[dondon151]

The game itself is simply not designed with LTC in mind. FE6/7 were designed with their ranking systems in mind. I have literally no clue why IS did away with them afterward.

you have no evidence of this. i could just as easily assert the inverse by citing the fact that the game shows turn numbers.

[PKL]

To add to what dondon said, I could also cite that Tellius gives BEXP if you go fast and that FE12 outright encourages hurrying up in the harder modes in clever ways.

EDIT: I am, however, a believer that FE is a game that can be played in a plethora of ways. Find out what you like and stick to that. Don't diss the other side for not liking the other and vice-versa. Having tried most ways to play FE (casual [sorry if this offends anyone but idk what to call it], LTC, "efficiency", maximum LTC, draft, etc) I like LTC and drafts the most. I do my first run of FEs in casual, but I rarely revisit that style of playing after the first run, doesn't mean I don't enjoy that first run though. I've just experienced the story, most of the supports and what the game has to offer so I don't feel the need to play like that again. I do, however, like to revisit the game to achieve lower numbers every time. :P

Edited June 7, 2013 by Peekayell

[Baldrick]

If the developers intended the game be played a certain way, that doesn't necessarily make it a more valid playstyle. Death of the author applies especially from a pure gameplay perspective.

In LTC you do not have to "throw away useless units"...sigh, when will those comments stop >_>. I've LTC'd FE9 with ROLF, sometimes BROM in my team. Same with FE10. You can get away with using bad units in LTC too. Of course, the core of the best units needs to be there to save the most turns.

Is Rolf making any meaningful contribution, or is he only there because there's no opportunity cost to his deployment?

you have no evidence of this. i could just as easily assert the inverse by citing the fact that the game shows turn numbers.

Unless I'm mistaken, Thracia is the only game that ranks you solely on your turncount.

EDIT: Baldo you silly don't doublepost.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Integrity