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Rate the DLC Unit Day #11: Celica


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Being a Manakete, Nowi Nah is going to end up having some really high endgame stats, but she tends to have limited availability due to a hard paralouge. This means her maingame usefulness is limited, and her viability really relies on who her father is. In the end, Nah is one of the less flexible children characters, having a strong endgame but an okay maingame at best.

5.5/10 with +1 bias for 6.5/10

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Nah, like Yarne, has great growths due to the fact that reclassing out of Manakete gives you very advanced stats and growths; of course, though, she's gonna start with an E in weapon ranks. Being in the Manakete class means that she's tanky as hell and hits a ton, but her speed is butt-low unless you have a father like Gaius (which nerfs her strongest stats). Nah also has one of the hardest paralogues, with high level enemies, random disappearing walls, Mire and forged weapons. It can be tricky to raise Nah at this point in the game, if you recruit her at a time where you can handle her paralogue, although risen maps will do the trick eventually.

Overall, Nah has great potential with her wide parent range and Manakete growths, but certains areas, such as stats and possible availibility, hit her a bit hard.

5.25/10 (sue me for being specific), though if it's with bias it would be 4.25/10, because despite the story's claims that she's mature for her age, I still consider her to be a brat, and a huge jerk to some of the others in the supports.

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Being a Manakete, Nowi Nah is going to end up having some really high endgame stats, but she tends to have limited availability due to a hard paralouge. This means her maingame usefulness is limited, and her viability really relies on who her father is. In the end, Nah is one of the less flexible children characters, having a strong endgame but an okay maingame at best.

5.5/10 with +1 bias for 6.5/10

Yoink but changing score to 6, no bias

Awesome tank but it takes her too long to get there, even then unless Avatar is her dad she feels a bit limited compared to some other kids

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Nah can get some good bases from Nowi if Nowi is used, and having permanent 1-2 range with dragonstone/dragonstone + bonuses is always nice. Unlike many of the other kids, she doesn't need to class change to actually do stuff, so doesn't need to build a weapon rank from E, which is good compared to the vast amount of swordie kids. Nah will be a footie forever due to this, unless she wants to tradeoff a mount for an E rank. Nowi probably won't pass down any skills that aren't the crappy Manakete skills so its up to Nah's dad to give her a decent skill.

4/10, typical Manakete perks but comes later than Nowi

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I don't see what's wrong with factoring in postgame. The opening topic states that we're to assume Hard Mode. Despite the name, that isn't very hard, so it doesn't really matter what characters you use at any point. If you don't factor in EVERYTHING, then you aren't actually giving a full review.

The fact that Hard isn't "Hard" is the thing. There really is no need to baby units like Owain and Nah, when Sully and Sumia pull more weight around the entire game and don't need massive amount of favorism.

That's like rating FE8 for Creature Campaign or 6 for Bonus maps.

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The fact that Hard isn't "Hard" is the thing. There really is no need to baby units like Owain and Nah, when Sully and Sumia pull more weight around the entire game and don't need massive amount of favorism.

That's like rating FE8 for Creature Campaign or 6 for Bonus maps.

The problem there is that for FE6/FE8 postgame, most units of one class are nearly identical; the only things to factor in are "how good is their class", "how high are their caps", and "how high are their averages". For FE8 postgame, Seth is not markedly better or worse than Franz/Kyle/Forde as paladins since they have the same caps, so factoring postgame would become 'who has the better class" with averages factored in a little bit (probably not much due to buyable stat boosters though). Not a very useful means by which to differentiate characters.

In FE13, each individual unit is different, even in the same class; while postgame still doesn't care about averages (infinite XP, after all) it does show the strengths of the children characters, who join late enough and low enough to be pretty subpar otherwise. Child units have advantages in class set variety, skill availability, and stat caps over the parent units, which makes postgame a useful tool for evaluating characters since otherwise I'm pretty sure almost every child (aside from maybe Lucina and Morgan) would be useless. If you ask me, it looks kinda ugly to have a ratings list where so much of the cast is that useless.

On the other hand, you're still not wrong in that there's no need at all to baby the children for the main game. Sully, Sumia, et al. are still vastly more useful for the majority of the game, which is why even with postgame factored in (note: raising a unit in postgame doesn't require favoritism since XP is now an infinite resource) most people are still rating them above the children.

Am I missing anything? I'm still new around here, so maybe there's some history I haven't grasped.

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It's more of two separate ways of rating. If it was postgame, of course I would be inclined to give some of the children 10's. But up until now, ratings have been solely on how good someone is in the main game, aka the more valued opinion when rating units. It's very obvious that people give children perfect scores because they can get better skill pools(Galeforce, Luna, Sol, Armthrift, etc.) than the parents, but none of that ever actually matters in the main game since they'll only realistically get one or two of those skills.

I mean, should I go and give Brady a 8/10? Sucks the entire way through the game, but lolbroken because Galeforce/Luna/Dual Guard+! Doesn't seem that fair.

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It's more of two separate ways of rating. If it was postgame, of course I would be inclined to give some of the children 10's. But up until now, ratings have been solely on how good someone is in the main game, aka the more valued opinion when rating units. It's very obvious that people give children perfect scores because they can get better skill pools(Galeforce, Luna, Sol, Armthrift, etc.) than the parents, but none of that ever actually matters in the main game since they'll only realistically get one or two of those skills.

I mean, should I go and give Brady a 8/10? Sucks the entire way through the game, but lolbroken because Galeforce/Luna/Dual Guard+! Doesn't seem that fair.

If "main game only", "no grinding" is the factor for determining usefulness, then it should be stated as such. But it isn't, and as such everything should be taken into account. There's seriously no reason to rate characters at all if you're only basing it on main game Hard Mode. You don't need to use the best of the best. You don't need to be selective at all.

And with infinite EXP, the only time you need to baby a 2nd generation character is if their parents sucked in terms of stats and you need to carefully run them through the EXP Risen map. Otherwise just pair them with a flier, run Champions of Yore 2, and you can go from level 1 to 10 on about 3 base classes before you need a little boost from another map due to the internal level. Once you hit the internal level cap, if you have both Veteran and Paragon, you can get from level 1 to 16 in about 7 runs at slightly over 2 minutes each (and that's only if you hit up the two villages and the right side event tile, otherwise less time). So it works out to approximately 1 minute per level after capping. Without Veteran, 1 minute 30 seconds (one would assume, based on how Veteran works).

And once you get a couple strong enough, you can just run two through Champions of Yore 3 with the same effect, just a higher chance of dying if they don't have high enough stats.

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If "main game only", "no grinding" is the factor for determining usefulness, then it should be stated as such. But it isn't, and as such everything should be taken into account. There's seriously no reason to rate characters at all if you're only basing it on main game Hard Mode. You don't need to use the best of the best. You don't need to be selective at all.

And with infinite EXP, the only time you need to baby a 2nd generation character is if their parents sucked in terms of stats and you need to carefully run them through the EXP Risen map. Otherwise just pair them with a flier, run Champions of Yore 2, and you can go from level 1 to 10 on about 3 base classes before you need a little boost from another map due to the internal level. Once you hit the internal level cap, if you have both Veteran and Paragon, you can get from level 1 to 16 in about 7 runs at slightly over 2 minutes each (and that's only if you hit up the two villages and the right side event tile, otherwise less time). So it works out to approximately 1 minute per level after capping. Without Veteran, 1 minute 30 seconds (one would assume, based on how Veteran works).

And once you get a couple strong enough, you can just run two through Champions of Yore 3 with the same effect, just a higher chance of dying if they don't have high enough stats.

Except that's why tier lists are made. We assume a unit's worth based on their join time, base stats, potential and so forth. And DLC maps+ skirmishes are not assumed ala Tower of Valni from FE8. If I can use DLC, then might as well factor in the Spotpass characters as well!

I'll just drop this subject now, since nobody seems to really care much and I don't wanna divert this topic's main objective.

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Severa got 6.12 unbiased and 6.31 biased.

beat cynthia 10/10

That's BS.

Welp. I know what I'm gonna complain about in the Aftergame thread. :P

Edited by Zeem
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I changed the time of day I post which day it is, because it's a lot more convenient to do it at 11 AM for me than 11 (yeah I did them 1 hour before the actual day because Im not staying up til 12!) PM.

Day 40: Noire

OP was updated with the previous day's scores. Thanks to Lucina and Dragon Boner for tallying that one. Had to throw one Nah vote because of not having enough explanation to the score.

Anyway. Noire:

Having a magical mother but joining as a physical class is awkward. She has to depend on tharja marrying someone physical to get better physical base stats. At least tharja has nice speed and def to pass her, but def isn't exactly amazing for her since she's a Bowlocked unit. Her Paralogue is pretty tough, with enemies all having forged 1-2 range weaponry and multiple bow users. There are also some Lancebreaking Griffons that are extremely annoying for Dark Fliers or Falconknights. She can promote to a Bow Knight and not do too bad in Player Phases. Bronze Sword at the point she joins is just terrible though. I personally think she's bad, but not as bad as Virion.

2/10 +1 bias included because dat dark side

Edited by Peekayell
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They didn't think Noire through, did they?

Tharja has fairly low skill to begin with, and its one of the archer's main stats. Noire can be reclassed to, say, a mage or dark mage, and function fairly well with a magical father, though her E rank tomes hits hard. Magical Fathers? Henry, MU, Libra, Ricken...

5.5/10. 6.5/10 with bias because she is Nathaniel's waifu.

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IIRC Tharja is rather ideal with Lonny/Gregor, so its not exactly a problem to get her a proper daddy

That being said, her class sets is awkward, and starting with a Bow Rank is lol. Makes a cool pair up fodder maybe.

Unlike some children, she needs extra favoritism(read: Arms Scroll) to get her out of her mediocre start(most children actually has decent start) which is even more laughable

1/10

Edited by I have a Dragon Boner
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They didn't think Noire through, did they?

Tharja has fairly low skill to begin with, and its one of the archer's main stats. Noire can be reclassed to, say, a mage or dark mage, and function fairly well with a magical father, though her E rank tomes hits hard. Magical Fathers? Henry, MU, Libra, Ricken...

5.5/10. 6.5/10 with bias because she is Nathaniel's waifu.

I snatch dat rating because I would have 1 too many biases for Noire. its totally not because I am too lazy

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Noire, Noire, Noire.

Having a magical mother kinda sucks, but Tharja has a lot of good options for a husband, Gaius, Virion, and Gregor for example being good choices. They'll help her stats out nicely, but unfortunately Noire's an archer.

Her paralogue is among the toughest of the children's. Fortunately, she recruits herself and finds a steel bow, so she can at least snipe some of the fliers near her through the wall and snag some EXP. And you have more than enough time to save her, so there's that.

Her class set from Tharja is alright (Luna access woo), and her father will enable her to potentially get better classes, so hooray. She's just fine as a sniper/bow knight, though, and she's definitely the best bow user in the game if you play your cards right. She's not as terrible as people claim her to be, but she isn't phenomenal either. Better than the likes of Virion, at least.

3.5/10, +1 bias because <3. 4.5/10

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Noire is... a strange one.

Tharja makes her a good sorceror, but a bad archer. A magic father makes her an even better sorceror, but an even worse archer, and a strength-based father makes her a better archer and a worser sorceror. Granted, these differences won't make a huge difference in the long run, but when you first get her (she's in one of the harder paralogues) she's hard to train initially and is usually not worth using after she's recruited. The archer classes isn't destroying her, but it IS stopping her from becoming better, too. I'd say she's one of the weakest child units because of all these flaws. Granted, she isn't unsaveable, but I'd say that the other child units are easier to use in the long run, considering she's mediocre/good in most other aspects I haven't gone into detail about; not to mention that if you ARE reclassing her, she'll have that annoying E rank.

Also, did I mention that Noire has bad skill, usually, due to her mother's horrible growth in that stat? And she has that lowered skill as an ARCHER? Yeah, Tharja isn't doing much justice as a mother.

4/10, though if it's with bias it's 5/10 because awesome crit lines and dark side, and for coping with having THARJA for a mother >>'

Edited by The Fush
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^ Implying skl is important to an Archer.

I forgot to mention that Vengeance works better on her than on pretty much everyone since she can take some damage and increase her damage output a majority of the time since she's an Archer. Archers have naturally good skl anyway and since she doesn't (mostly) need to take counters, she can at least have a decent player phase.

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But you need to have promoted Tharja at level 5 and recruit her to do so >_>

By the time you can do her Paralogue, Tharja will be promoted, for sure.

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They didn't think Noire through, did they?

Tharja has fairly low skill to begin with, and its one of the archer's main stats. Noire can be reclassed to, say, a mage or dark mage, and function fairly well with a magical father, though her E rank tomes hits hard. Magical Fathers? Henry, MU, Libra, Ricken...

5.5/10. 6.5/10 with bias because she is Nathaniel's waifu.

I will take this without the bias.
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