SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Jotari]

For the speculative amongst you, I've made a roster for what I think the next game's character selection should be.

[spoiler=]

And a video explaining my choices/opinions

Edited April 14, 2016 by Jotari

[Zera]

Wow, you even made a video. Nice.

I was ready to completely trash your roster until I saw Saki in there. Good save.

-1 for Kamek. Yoshi has his own games, but he's still a Mario character without any doubt, and there are already plenty of Mario characters to choose. If players want a spell caster, they can play as Zelda or Robin.

+1 for K. Rool.

-2 for Toon Link. Toon Link has always been a speedy (i.e. better) clone of Link, and his continued existence only ensures that Link will continue to be ignored. From a moveset diversity standpoint, he is easily the worst choice of any Zelda character. From a character standpoint, he is also the worst choice because he is literally a cartoon version of a character already present.

-1 for Ganon. Large, monster shaped characters are hard to implement (see: Ridley) and Ganon makes more sense as Ganondorf's Final Smash anyway.

+1 for Ridley. Purple space dragon is cool.

-1 for Dark Pit. He's no better than Shadow the Hedgehog.

-2 for Takamaru. Who even IS this guy?

-1 for Samurai Goroh. F-Zero is dead. Give up.

+1 for Ice Climbers. Unless they have chain grabs.

+1 for Inkling. But how will the ink be programmed?

-2 for Balder. Double dipping with third-party franchises is like... you just don't do that, man.

+2 for Saki. You wouldn't believe how many fan rosters don't even have a single Sin & Punishment character. And 95% of those that do don't have a character from the second game, which is when the series started getting REALLY good.

I rate your roster 6/10. Also, I question your inclusion of characters that were only available in Smash 4 as DLC, like Cloud.

[solrocknroll]

For the speculative amongst you, I've made a roster for what I think the next game's character selection should be.

[spoiler=]

And a video explaining my choices/opinions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcawfPqmXmA

Balder but no Shulk? Whether Elma would be a good character or not doesn't really excuse that.

Especially since you added characters from over the hill series such as Saki and Isaac instead of having two Xenoblade characters. Which is not exactly a major issue. Xenoblade will continue expanding in the next few years.

[King Marth 64]

Balder but no Shulk? Whether Elma would be a good character or not doesn't really excuse that.

Especially since you added characters from over the hill series such as Saki and Isaac instead of having two Xenoblade characters. Which is not exactly a major issue. Xenoblade will continue expanding in the next few years.

He has putted Skulk in the image already. It's on top of Elma.

[Dai]

It amuses me that the image says Isaac, but the icon shows Matthew, his son.

[Jotari]

It amuses me that the image says Isaac, but the icon shows Matthew, his son.

That's what putting one's trust in google image search does. It has since been corrected on my own computer but I'm not going to upload a second video for the sake of it.

Wow, you even made a video. Nice.

I was ready to completely trash your roster until I saw Saki in there. Good save.

-1 for Kamek. Yoshi has his own games, but he's still a Mario character without any doubt, and there are already plenty of Mario characters to choose. If players want a spell caster, they can play as Zelda or Robin.

+1 for K. Rool.

-2 for Toon Link. Toon Link has always been a speedy (i.e. better) clone of Link, and his continued existence only ensures that Link will continue to be ignored. From a moveset diversity standpoint, he is easily the worst choice of any Zelda character. From a character standpoint, he is also the worst choice because he is literally a cartoon version of a character already present.

-1 for Ganon. Large, monster shaped characters are hard to implement (see: Ridley) and Ganon makes more sense as Ganondorf's Final Smash anyway.

+1 for Ridley. Purple space dragon is cool.

-1 for Dark Pit. He's no better than Shadow the Hedgehog.

-2 for Takamaru. Who even IS this guy?

-1 for Samurai Goroh. F-Zero is dead. Give up.

+1 for Ice Climbers. Unless they have chain grabs.

+1 for Inkling. But how will the ink be programmed?

-2 for Balder. Double dipping with third-party franchises is like... you just don't do that, man.

+2 for Saki. You wouldn't believe how many fan rosters don't even have a single Sin & Punishment character. And 95% of those that do don't have a character from the second game, which is when the series started getting REALLY good.

I rate your roster 6/10. Also, I question your inclusion of characters that were only available in Smash 4 as DLC, like Cloud.

Saki is in over Isa per the Marth idea that the oldest protagonist will always be the oldest while the newer won't necessary be the newer. Isa might have more moveset potential but I don't think it's be too strange for Saki to use Isa's moves. And, in general, I prefer Saki's design over Isa's.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Jotari

[Clarinets]

Wow, you even made a video. Nice.

I was ready to completely trash your roster until I saw Saki in there. Good save.

-1 for Kamek. Yoshi has his own games, but he's still a Mario character without any doubt, and there are already plenty of Mario characters to choose. If players want a spell caster, they can play as Zelda or Robin.

+1 for K. Rool.

-2 for Toon Link. Toon Link has always been a speedy (i.e. better) clone of Link, and his continued existence only ensures that Link will continue to be ignored. From a moveset diversity standpoint, he is easily the worst choice of any Zelda character. From a character standpoint, he is also the worst choice because he is literally a cartoon version of a character already present.

-1 for Ganon. Large, monster shaped characters are hard to implement (see: Ridley) and Ganon makes more sense as Ganondorf's Final Smash anyway.

+1 for Ridley. Purple space dragon is cool.

-1 for Dark Pit. He's no better than Shadow the Hedgehog.

-2 for Takamaru. Who even IS this guy?

-1 for Samurai Goroh. F-Zero is dead. Give up.

+1 for Ice Climbers. Unless they have chain grabs.

+1 for Inkling. But how will the ink be programmed?

-2 for Balder. Double dipping with third-party franchises is like... you just don't do that, man.

+2 for Saki. You wouldn't believe how many fan rosters don't even have a single Sin & Punishment character. And 95% of those that do don't have a character from the second game, which is when the series started getting REALLY good.

I rate your roster 6/10. Also, I question your inclusion of characters that were only available in Smash 4 as DLC, like Cloud.

Takamaru is from a currently Japan-only series I can't remember the name of. But hey, Roy and Marth got in Melee!

[The DanMan]

Takamaru is from a currently Japan-only series I can't remember the name of. But hey, Roy and Marth got in Melee!

Roy and Marth were set to be removed from the Western releases of Melee; the localizers grew attached to them and decided against it.

So the credit for FE being introduced to the West goes to NOA/NOE localizers circa 2001, not Sakurai (who also stated that Takamaru was considered, but didn't get in because he was from a Japan-only game).

[Zera]

Saki is in over Isa per the Marth idea that the oldest protagonist will always be the oldest while the newer won't necessary be the newer.

What does that even mean? I know more people are familiar with Saki due to his status as an assist trophy, but I've seen Smash characters from games that weren't even released yet! (i.e. Corrin)

Isa might have more moveset potential but I don't think it's be too strange for Saki to use Isa's moves. And, in general, I prefer Saki's design over Isa's.

Did you also consider the extreme diversity of the Nebulox? Seriously, there are 5 viable characters choices right there.

[Jotari]

Takmaru isn't Japanese only anymore. His game was translated and released on VC last year.

[Jedi]

What does that even mean? I know more people are familiar with Saki due to his status as an assist trophy, but I've seen Smash characters from games that weren't even released yet! (i.e. Corrin)

Theres a difference here, Sin & Punishment isn't nearly as known as Fire Emblem regardless of country.

Nor will it ever be.

[Jave]

Corrin was also out in Japan for a while before he was announced for Smash.

The only character whose Smash appearance predates his own game is Roy. (And he was kind of a favor to IntSys. Originally Sakurai wanted to use Leif).

[Jedi]

Corrin was also out in Japan for a while before he was announced for Smash.

The only character whose Smash appearance predates his own game is Roy. (And he was kind of a favor to IntSys. Originally Sakurai wanted to use Leif).

Yes this too, I mean at the end of the day, Sakurai is gonna be more inclined towards what the Japanese like/will most likely like, there are a few standout exceptions (I.E Little Mac and Bayonetta) but still.

This is partly why Metroid has such low representation in Smash overall.

[Jotari]

What does that even mean? I know more people are familiar with Saki due to his status as an assist trophy, but I've seen Smash characters from games that weren't even released yet! (i.e. Corrin)

Did you also consider the extreme diversity of the Nebulox? Seriously, there are 5 viable characters choices right there.

For the record, if I were to pick a second SIn and Punishment character I'd probably go with K/Achi who would have the ability to summon ruffians in battle. We haven't seen a real summoning character in Smash and I reckon it could work. Psychic powers, a hoverboard and a gun also add up to some pretty good gimicks.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Jotari

[Samias]

Yes this too, I mean at the end of the day, Sakurai is gonna be more inclined towards what the Japanese like/will most likely like, there are a few standout exceptions (I.E Little Mac and Bayonetta) but still.

This is partly why Metroid has such low representation in Smash overall.

I'd say Ike was also a bone thrown to North Americans who, at the time, liked Tellius a lot more than Japan. The Tellius games were the biggest flop of any FE game in Japan while here it was about equal to Shadow Dragon. Also Metroid's low rep is likely the lack of iconic protagonists. UItimately there's very few prominent humanoid characters in the Metroidverse other than Samus, as the Metroid series at least has good stage rep and assist trophies. Realistic choices for other characters would be like... Adam or Rundas or something, and I don't think Adam is interesting and the MP3 Hunters just appear way too briefly to be memorable fighters in Smash. Playable, downscaled Ridley without flight would hardly be Ridley at all. It's just the nature of the series, just as how Zelda is kind of tapped out on major protagonists who are not one-off support characters due to the reuse of the Zelda/Link/Ganondorf trinity.

I actually think Sakurai's roster choices were extremely well balanced between US and JP popularity. Even the JRPG choices like Shulk and Ness are equally well regarded in every region, being obscure choices overall. If Sakurai was going to be biased towards JP we would have seen choices like Takamaru or other JP-only NES era protagonists. Instead I think it's more obvious that Sakurai will cannibalize his older games to cut corners, leading to a bias towards Kid Icarus: Uprising due to all the reused assets from that game. So whatever the next Smash game is, look towards whatever Sakurai worked on close to but before that, and you'll probably see a ton of assets come from there.

[The DanMan]

I actually think Sakurai's roster choices were extremely well balanced between US and JP popularity. Even the JRPG choices like Shulk and Ness are equally well regarded in every region, being obscure choices overall. If Sakurai was going to be biased towards JP we would have seen choices like Takamaru or other JP-only NES era protagonists. Instead I think it's more obvious that Sakurai will cannibalize his older games to cut corners, leading to a bias towards Kid Icarus: Uprising due to all the reused assets from that game. So whatever the next Smash game is, look towards whatever Sakurai worked on close to but before that, and you'll probably see a ton of assets come from there.

...That makes so much sense. Why didn't I think of this?

[Water Mage]

Instead I think it's more obvious that Sakurai will cannibalize his older games to cut corners, leading to a bias towards Kid Icarus: Uprising due to all the reused assets from that game. So whatever the next Smash game is, look towards whatever Sakurai worked on close to but before that, and you'll probably see a ton of assets come from there.

Now that you mention it, didn't Kirby's Air Ride reuse a lot of assets from Melee?

[Zera]

Now that you mention it, didn't Kirby's Air Ride reuse a lot of assets from Melee?

Stylistically, yes, but not in a concrete way. I can't think of an actual object or sound effect or anything like that.

[Water Mage]

Stylistically, yes, but not in a concrete way. I can't think of an actual object or sound effect or anything like that.

But I swear the menus from Kirby's Air Ride were exactly like Melee's.

It was to similar to be just the same style. The probably reused something.

But then again, I think the same person worked on the menus of both games.

Speaking of reused assests, I think I finally realised why Fire Emblem has so little trophies.

If you pay attention, a lot of the models of the Mario and Kid Icarus series's trophies seems to be taken directly from the original games.

Fire Emblem series's trophies seems to be made from scratch which is why there are less of them.

[Samias]

I think the FE trophies are from Radiant Dawn and maybe touched up slightly. But yeah, almost every trophy is just an asset from their original game. It's why Fire Emblem had no trophies in Melee that weren't fighter trophies. In SSB4, Ice Climbers is an exception. You can clearly tell it's a new model from Brawl as their parka is much more textured and the polycount is higher. Presumably this is the model they tried to get working and that ICs were very late in development before getting scrapped but the asset got used for the trophy so it wouldn't go to waste.

Edit: Melee is a little different in that it was an near launch title for the GCN so there is actually very little reuse there, the jump from the N64 was too great. They kind of tried with the trophies but they look off. But notably the All-Star mode wait room is a beautiful remix of Float Island from Kirby.

The sheer number of collectables in Brawl is fueled by preexisting assets to fluff up original work.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Samias

[Zera]

All Star Rest Area - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB7j0RxJ1kU

File Select - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ghz9j39ew&list=PLC-qn8gNLc3GGt4UJCPoURn9_QF6tnpZq&index=2

Float Islands - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-76kXxeWkEE&index=7&list=PLC-qn8gNLc3GGt4UJCPoURn9_QF6tnpZq

"All Star Rest Area" is a remix of "File Select", not "Float Islands".

plae moar kerbee gaims

[Tsunami922]

All Star Rest Area - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB7j0RxJ1kU

File Select - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ghz9j39ew&list=PLC-qn8gNLc3GGt4UJCPoURn9_QF6tnpZq&index=2

Float Islands - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-76kXxeWkEE&index=7&list=PLC-qn8gNLc3GGt4UJCPoURn9_QF6tnpZq

"All Star Rest Area" is a remix of "File Select", not "Float Islands".

plae moar kerbee gaims

It's also the save area music from the Original Super Star:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WBJo5olbeUk

[Jedi]

Pretty funny little trick Roy can do on Smashville.

[The DanMan]

Pretty funny little trick Roy can do on Smashville.

So we might actually see Smashville ever so slightly less?

This is a blessing in disguise.

[Jedi]

So we might actually see Smashville ever so slightly less?

This is a blessing in disguise.

Nah, its still considered the most neutral stage to most people, so its still a popular pick