SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Ema Skye]

So that leaves ZeRo's low/bottom tier as:

Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Samus, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Roy, Bowser Jr., Palutena, Duck Hunt, Mii Gunner, Mii Brawler and Mii Swordfighter.

[Carmine Sword]

@FireEmblemFan

Just because you are good with and like using a certain character doesn't mean that they're actually good in comparison to the rest of the cast. I like using Dorf and Shulk, but I'm not going around claiming that they're super underrated just based on my experiences with them. I know that they're fairly mediocre in comparison to the rest of the cast, and that's fine. Bowser is in a similar boat, so to speak. Unless you would like to provide evidence as to why you think Bowser is underrated as opposed to merely claiming as such.

[Jedi]

Like I mean ZeRo even stated why he feels Bowser is where he's at, despite the good qualities he does have.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Jedi

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Are you kidding? I suck with everyone, I'm a bad Smash player! But there's no way you'll ever convince me he's that low. I'm not at all saying he's the best character, not at all! I wouldn't argue him being in the mid-tier (although the mid-tier seems low...like 20-30 should be mid, if that makes sense). But that low? No way. He's at least better than Dedede/Falco/Mega Man/Mac.

[Sentacotus]

Roy in the bottom that's kinda suprising especially seeing how much he praised him when he came out at first I think he was even considering maining him at one point.

[Knight]

Roy being that low does seem kind of odd to me. He's been buffed so much yet he ends up in the same placement roughly as he was in Melee.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Roy does have a pretty good anti against some of the higher tiers. Ryu, Cloud and Sonic in some cases and Fox. It's just the margin of extra mileage to get that extra inch closer to sweet spot an attack. Roy gets out spaced pretty easily. He needs those sweets because a bag full of sour the entire match ain't gonna cut it. A good number of the cast beat him in this element. Roy is good, but only in some cases.

Also, anyone else think Sakurai ruined Bayo's most- you know, basic combo. Side B (Hold) is quite hard to combo into now.

[The DanMan]

Roy being low is due to lack of actual results; there aren't any big players consistently placing high at tourneys (compare Cloud).

[Dotty]

Just played SilentDoom on For Glory and did surprisingly okay-ish.

Never thought I'd see a name I recognised on FG, honestly.

[Knife]

His tier list is shit. Bowser and Link are def better than Dedede lol.

[Raven]

My Roy amiibo is due to be delivered today. He joins Ike, Marth, Lucina and Sonic.

To be honest I'm not all that bothered about the Robin amiibo but I suppose I should pick it up for the sake of completing the Fire Emblem amiibo crew, at least until Corrin amiibo is released.

[Jedi]

My Roy amiibo is due to be delivered today. He joins Ike, Marth, Lucina and Sonic.

To be honest I'm not all that bothered about the Robin amiibo but I suppose I should pick it up for the sake of completing the Fire Emblem amiibo crew, at least until Corrin amiibo is released.

I'm still curious why they didn't update Fates to allow Roy to be used there, its as simple as just a small game update :/

Also lucky I'm sitting at 3 FEers only.

[kingddd]

I'm still curious why they didn't update Fates to allow Roy to be used there, its as simple as just a small game update :/

Also lucky I'm sitting at 3 FEers only.

Like it has been stated from previous threads.

It requires adding a new Sprite, more voice clips, new dialogues and setting up the enemy units in the maps. It's definitely not a small update compared to say fix a small bug. Not to mention with this amount of assets they would probably require you to pay for the content for something they haven't made it in Fates yet. Despite Fates having new DLC coming out, those are required payment versus the amiibos which are content that is already in the game.

The reason why Mario Kart 8 allowed future amiibo support for free was because the DLC helped them make up for the cost of it.

[Jedi]

Like it has been stated from previous threads.

It requires adding a new Sprite, more voice clips, new dialogues and setting up the enemy units in the maps. It's definitely not a small update compared to say fix a small bug. Not to mention with this amount of assets they would probably require you to pay for the content for something they haven't made it in Fates yet. Despite Fates having new DLC coming out, those are required payment versus the amiibos which are content that is already in the game.

The reason why Mario Kart 8 allowed future amiibo support for free was because the DLC helped them make up for the cost of it.

I can see that yeah, I guess my insta response was kinda silly.

[Ema Skye]

So Abadango's Mewtwo won Pound 6 against Ally.

Mewtwo won an international!

Grand Finals Twitch Stream

Remember when Mewtwo was actually bad?

These Mewtwo buffs are unreal. And as a Mewtwo secondary, I love it.

Top 8 was Mewtwo, Mario, ZSS, Sheik, Cloud, Fox, DK and Bayo.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Squid Lord Doof

[Junk]

welp apparently spain banned bayonetta in smash 4. Can't say i'm happy about it although to be fair I don't really like to play smash competitively and prefer watching it.

[Jedi]

So Abadango's Mewtwo won Pound 6 against Ally.

Mewtwo won an international!

Grand Finals Twitch Stream

Remember when Mewtwo was actually bad?

These Mewtwo buffs are unreal. And as a Mewtwo secondary, I love it.

Top 8 was Mewtwo, Mario, ZSS, Sheik, Cloud, Fox, DK and Bayo.

Spectacular that Mewtwo got some nice results, its also cool to see DK that high.

welp apparently spain banned bayonetta in smash 4. Can't say i'm happy about it although to be fair I don't really like to play smash competitively and prefer watching it.

I think ZeRo had the right idea in his video about Bayonetta "We shouldn't ban her, we should learn how to fight her"

I guess Spain just wanted to cut off the chance she takes off

[Junk]

Spectacular that Mewtwo got some nice results, its also cool to see DK that high.

I think ZeRo had the right idea in his video about Bayonetta "We shouldn't ban her, we should learn how to fight her"

I guess Spain just wanted to cut off the chance she takes off

yeah that's what i feel too. Feels silly to ban a character not even a few months after release when there has not been enough time to explore how to combat bayonetta. I'm not a fan of character bans in general and definitely not happy about a ban after a few months.

[The DanMan]

"In Spain there's just 3 actual Bayonetta mains as of now (over 400 people!), and two of them do agree with the ban. We had more bayonetta players (mostly as secondaries) but they dropped her because they felt she was unfair. If bayonetta is banned, they'll probably go back to their old mains. However, since recent tournaments a lot of people are starting to pick her and we're seeing MK 2.0 case, so banning her before everyone mains her is in our opinion the best option.

When just ~7% of votes are against actually banning her (rest is either yes or I dunno) she is toxic. If left allowed, a lot of people would drop out of the tournaments, scene and the game, and thus it's not worth it to have her allowed. This is what I mean as toxic.

Banning bayonetta won't be very detrimental to our community, at worst there is only one or two players who would stop attending. It might be detrimental for competing outside of our country, but that's it.

Most TO agree with the ban and will actually ban her in their own tournaments. However, at the end of the day, each TO will set up rules for his own tournament, so it's not impossible to have more tournaments with Bayonetta allowed, although the tournament might have low attendance.

No other character is banned in Spain or has ever been in the history of Smash. We do restrict Miis to guest, but with any moveset. We did ban Kokonoe on release in BlazBlue though, but that's not smash.
As far as tournament results, Bayo players have made notable upsets (top40ish player beating top10, or top6 destroying everyone), but as she's not played by many people she's not dominating all results."

"She's fundamentally a pretty unfair character. Her weakness should be her neutral due to her bad frame data and run/air speed. in practice this just doesn't happen.

Having a high risk gameplan is by no means unique and that's what Bayo seems like looking at her numbers. In practice this is not what happens. Her bad frame data and movement SHOULD make her approach options bad and her OOS similarly bad.

In practice jump cancel Witch Twist completely removes the problems she should have OOS. On top of this her Downward After Burner Kick is relatively safe on shield (due to the bounce) and has a landing hitbox making it relatively hard to punish while having the potential to lead to a zero-death. Witch twist leads to similar setups.

On top of this Witch time turns every attack thrown at her into a serious Commitment. Having a tilt, jab or spacing move countered isn't a big deal. It simply leads to a small amount of damage and potentially baiting it out next time.Witch Time in contrast does 28% damage on the EASY punish. Yes Witch time stales heavily and yes it IS punishable. But the risk/reward is so much higher for Bayo it doesn't matter.
This leaves us with a character that both racks damage and kills early while being safe in neutral as she never has to do anything unsafe to be rewarded. While simultaneously it's extremely hard to force her into a situation in which she HAS to do anything that won't go in her favor.

Yes there's characters that win in theory. But those character have to grind out damage against her as safely as possible in such a prolonged fashion against a character that will kill them the moment they make a mistake, the situation is so incredibly punishing of mistakes it makes the counters frankly pretty unrealistic in practice. Even in cases of success it's essentially just one character running scared of the other for 6 minute stretches hoping to god they don't misspace a move for fear of being 0-deathed."

Reasoning behind the ban.

[Anacybele]

...Spain compares her to Brawl Meta Knight, but they never banned him in the Brawl days? It says Bayonetta is the first Smash character they've ever banned.

[Comet]

they only compared her to brawl meta knight's usage rates. if you read the rest of the quotes, you'll see that it's not a problem about bayonetta being overpowered (this was meta knight's issue), just annoying to fight in all aspects, which is worsened by the massive amount of people adopting her as either a main or secondary.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Comet

[Jedi]

...Spain compares her to Brawl Meta Knight, but they never banned him in the Brawl days? It says Bayonetta is the first Smash character they've ever banned.

Metaknight was banned for a short period of time before people thought it was dumb.

Despite him being incredibly broken, more so than Bayo in terms of just how much he nullified the entire cast aside from like 2 people.

[Ema Skye]

I don't think Bayo actually nullifies the cast to the point that MK did. She's really good and she's obviously the best character.

But I think MK's problem was that his matchup spread and the many auto-wins he had is unlike Bayo. Instead, I think Bayo invalidates the rest of the cast because her gameplay is so simple and there's no reason to pick anyone else when she's easier to play and win with. Cloud also fits into this title, but not to this extent.

That may not seem like much of a difference, but I think the logic comes down to this:

- MK is bannable because he wins matchups and makes characters bad choices due to having autowin matchups.

- Bayo is bannable because she makes other characters pointless to play as.

[Jotari]

So what logical weakness should Bayo have to maintain her playstyle without making her so perfect?

[Jedi]

So what logical weakness should Bayo have to maintain her playstyle without making her so perfect?

Make her neutral game crap, and not have barely any risk with super huge reward.