Top Ten worst characters in Shadow Dragon

[bottlegnomes]

I just did and lets not forget this is Shadow Dragon we're talking about. As for FE 12, there's really no way to explain why it has support convos and Shadow Dragon doesn't. Heck, for all we know, the Japanese Shadow Dragon could have them and none of us would know

No, you didn't. You stated one possible reason; nothing about that reason justifies the lack of supports and character development. And as Horace said, none of that stuff was in the Japanese version. They added most of it to 12 partially because of the negative reaction to its lack in 11.

[HK Motendra]

No, you didn't. You stated one possible reason; nothing about that reason justifies the lack of supports and character development. And as Horace said, none of that stuff was in the Japanese version. They added most of it to 12 partially because of the negative reaction to its lack in 11.

You forget that Shadow Dragon is a REMAKE

Just like I said before. A remake of the FIRST FE, which didn't have a support system at all. What more is there to explain? Your probably right about FE 12's reasons for supports but I'm not here to argue about a sequel, or try to act like I was there when IS was developing both 11 and 12. No matter how we look at it, 11 didn't have them, and they made up for it in 12. That is all.

Now can we get back to the topic at hand?

Edited July 19, 2013 by HeroKingMarth

[Leinex]

In hindsight, I'd say that Shadow Dragon was a little too faithful to FE1 (and lol at the Gaiden requirements). ^^;

From what you're saying, bottlegnomes, I'm assuming that you think the whole game sucks just because the characters aren't fleshed out for you. Edit: Oh, wait, that was tacticianjenro, but you seem to be supporting his/her opinion. Now I don't know about you, but I find it so much fun to create personalities for established characters...

Anyway, Samson, Arran, and Lorenz are the ones that I'd call the worst here...

Edited July 19, 2013 by Crizix

[bottlegnomes]

Just like I said before. A remake of the FIRST FE, which didn't have a support system at all. What more is there to explain? Your probably right about FE 12's reasons for supports but I'm not here to argue about a sequel, or try to act like I was there when IS was developing both 11 and 12. No matter how we look at it, 11 didn't have them, and they made up for it in 12. That is all.

Now can we get back to the topic at hand?

Do you know what justify means? An actual justification is that they didn't think there'd be that strong of a negative reaction to not including supports. And even then, that's not much of one.

In hindsight, I'd say that Shadow Dragon was a little too faithful to FE1 (and lol at the Gaiden requirements). ^^;

From what you're saying, bottlegnomes, I'm assuming that you think the whole game sucks just because the characters aren't fleshed out for you. Edit: Oh, wait, that was tacticianjenro, but you seem to be supporting his/her opinion. Now I don't know about you, but I find it so much fun to create personalities for established characters...

Anyway, Samson, Arran, and Lorenz are the ones that I'd call the worst here...

No, I actually quite like the game. It's probably my second least favorite FE, but I still enjoy it and play it somewhat regularly.

As to the actual topic, I'd have to say Dolph, Macellan, Ymir, Lorenz, Est, Etzel, Tomas, Arran, Samson, and Horace.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

It should be noted that the amount of extra dialogues in Shadow Dragon is pretty massive in comparison to fe1

Consider that Marth actually talked in the beggining of every chapter of SD >_>

[NinjaMonkey]

Yeah, but for reasons unknown, FE 12 was a japan exclusive and Shadow Dragon was meant to introduce the roots of the franchise, since the series' mascot was never featured in a game outside japan while adding the re class feature

Marth's inclusion in Super Smash Bros. Melee says otherwise.

[SgtSombrero]

Basically, the point of "the cup of the worst" goes to units that actually are NOT useful at all.

That being said (adding one or two personal thoughts)
10-Marth. I hate babysitting
9-Radd. I hate babysitting.
8-Tomas. He's got $wag but he comes pretty late, when even Gordin (lolnp) has gained some levelups
7-Jaigen. Useful as a meatshield.
8-Bord. He's just too inaccurate.
7-Darren. Dudewhat.
6-Vyland. Simply put, he's useless.
5-Est. I really hate babysitting. And arena-abusing.
4-Arran. While Samson can be actually useful, Arran can't. He's a paladin and has got low hp? srsly
3-Boah.
2-Bantu. he's just that bad
1-Gordin. I hate Gordin from the real core of my heart. Simply put, he's an annoying character, he plays the "aww mah goshh he's just a poor poor archer.
He's not bad, but reclassing others is better.

Also my sister once saw him and said he kinda looked like a dic face

[Logience]

The supports were pretty good in 12. Though again, Cain's were dull enough to ruin him even without that stupid XP gain quote, Roger's made me want to take back every insult I ever threw at Makalov and use them on him, Maris' made me hate Japan's guts, Macellan's was dull and flat, Ellerean was all Tsundere stereotype, and Tomas' just didn't match his facial expression at any time. That's something I'd expect from freaking Ryan, dammit.

Though on the positive side, Bord and Cord's supports were funny, Barst's was surprisingly deep, Rickard was surprisingly human in his MU support, Warren's made me start using him over the archers, Samson was thankfully kept from being a simul-recruit with Arran, and Palla's were perfect.

[JasonMendez]

1.Wrys - Garbage of the highest tier

2.Boah - He's terrible but I love his design.

3.Jagen - More garbage. Abel,Frey and Cain are all WAY better than him. Best to sacrifice his ass when Jiol is a coming

4.Tomas - You'll probably have a better bow user such as Gordin, Norne or even Barst as a Warrior

5.Arran - same as Jagen

6.Lorenz - terrible speed and you probably have a good Draug or Horace by this point. The Eyepatch is cool just like him in FE12

7.Ymir - Barst is so much better but he gets points for personality

8.Radd - Navarre kicks his sorry ass back to Port Warren

9.Macellan - same as Lorenz. Cool armor color however

10.Darros - he has so much potential, but it's wasted by his awful speed and skill growths and starting stats.

[YoshiYogurt]

um WTF is the deal with Gordin? He's quite good in FE1 and FE3

[-Cynthia-]

Athena's 6(absolute) base Str and HP(9) is the highest of any joining character until Ymir. Putting Athena as one of the worse units and not Radd is strange...note that Athena joins before Radd.

Athena bases: 9 HP 6 Str 3 Skl 2 Spd 6 Lck 3 Def 0 Res

Radd bases: 1 HP 2 Str -1 Skl -1 Spd 1 Lck 2 Def 0 Res

Athena doesn't have great growths, but neither do a lot of people in this game.

[Lopey]

Wow! Athena bears Radd in everything except Res.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

Funny thing was Lorenz was actually decent in FE3 thanks to the non-diminished experience, star orb, and Gradivus all obtained around the same time you get him. Just slap the Gradivus and star orb (Gradivus gives him a x2 EXP rate and the star orb increases his growths by 30% AND prevents weapon durability loss) on him and he will level up nearly instantly and max most stats. It's just useful since only generals can use lances in the final chapter since it's an indoor chapter and they are the only non-mounted class that can use them.

EDIT: I know that was a bit off topic, but I needed to say it after seeing him bashed so much.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Drew Pickles

[Lord Tullus]

I know that I might be going against some forum rules when I say "personal experience", but in how I've utilized units, here's how my list would have turned out:

10: Frey. He doesn't even come in on hard mode! What the hell!?

9: Castor. His bases are ok for his level, but giving him bows does nothing when you have a level 10 gordin with an A rank in bows by the time he shows up.

8: Bord. Reclassed, his highest possible speed is 25%. That's worse than Sheeda's speed growth! IMO

7: Draug/Doga. I can't stand him. He never levels defense, his bases are not worth crap against hard mode mooks, and a reclassed cord could do better.

6: Marth. He's basically a theif with lower speed cap, and can't open doors. Benched.

5: Hardin. He can't use his silver sword. Logic at it's finest.

4: Norne. You need to kill people to get her. Her stats suck, I hate her, and she is the worst bow user in the game. At least Jeorge helps in the chapter you get him.

3: Abel. He's the good cav. Except he gets killed by all 1% crits in the game. His bad luck is cancer.

2: Navarre. I've had a Radd with more strength, defense, and HP than you! You act tough, but that's because you come with that killing edge. Give it to someone who can make proper use of it. Like Est.

1: Linde. Her tome takes forever for any female to use! Her bases and join time are awful, when Sedger is much better at this point! Hell, her magic takes forever to level up, and she gets 0 def for days. I just take the tome and sell it for what it's worth. Let someone else avenge you daddy.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

Castor. His bases are ok for his level, but giving him bows does nothing when you have a level 10 gordin with an A rank in bows by the time he shows up.

Umm, doesn't he come the chapter 2? I don't see how Gordin can be level 10 with an A rank in bows unless he boss abuses the 1st boss. Unless you mean the tutorial or something, but I thought you meant hard mode.

EDIT: Also I concur, I don't like Navarre in this game, he was pretty good in 1 and 3, but not this time around.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Drew Pickles

[Lord Tullus]

Umm, doesn't he come the chapter 2? I don't see how Gordin can be level 10 with an A rank in bows unless he boss abuses the 1st boss. Unless you mean the tutorial or something, but I thought you meant hard mode.

Yeah, mostly Hard mode 2 (Brutal). It was more of a sarcastic post, but I really do mean some of the stuff I mentioned. There's nothing in the game to stop you from abusing the sh*t out of the first boss, so on hard modes 3 and above, I almost always have Sheeda with an A in Lances and Gordin with an A in bows.

[Topazd]

Funny thing was Lorenz was actually decent in FE3 thanks to the non-diminished experience, star orb, and Gradivus all obtained around the same time you get him. Just slap the Gradivus and star orb (Gradivus gives him a x2 EXP rate and the star orb increases his growths by 30% AND prevents weapon durability loss) on him and he will level up nearly instantly and max most stats. It's just useful since only generals can use lances in the final chapter since it's an indoor chapter and they are the only non-mounted class that can use them.

EDIT: I know that was a bit off topic, but I needed to say it after seeing him bashed so much.

Funnily enough, Lorenz is just about the best candidate for killing Medeus quickly in FE3 0% growths. Since you don't have time to visit the secret shop (warp uses are too valuable) you'll only get two energy rings, and as you have to attack Medeus from 2 range, the only three units that can get to 38-39 attack (to deal 4 damage against him) are Dolph, Macellan and Lorenz. Lorenz has the upper hand thanks to being prepromoted and having base Gradivus access, only requiring the two energy rings and one speed ring to deal that much and double. Afterwards he can just chug down as many secret books as he quickly can to improve his crit chances. Generals are somewhat rare in efficient play, so it's nice to see Lorenz get his day in the sun in one game, at least.

[Mega Koopa]

10. Athena. I've held a grudge against her since she's worse than the other Myrmidons. But then again, none of the gaiden chapter characters are good. But then again, nearly no one's growths are good in this game...

9. Roshea. His speed is abysmal, but can be partially remedied by changing to an archer.

8. Tomas. He'd be okay to use, but he comes in too late to be of any real use.

7. Macellen. He's got poor growths all around.

6. Rickard. Granted that he is a thief, Julian has amazing growths and puts him to shame.

5. Darros. I'd like him a lot more if his skill and speed were a little better.

4. Wrys. Worst healer in existence, but comparatively better to the ones higher on the list.

3. Matthis. His growths are pitiful compared to the other cavaliers; that, and he's kind of annoying.

2. Vyland. I can't even, I just can't. He's worse than Matthis, I think that's all that needs to be said.

1. Gordin. I hate him. He is the absolute worst. It's not just that he's bad, it's that he's the best natural archer in the game, if you think about it. He is the most balanced compared to the other archers, AND HIS GROWTHS SUCK.

Opinions! Do you have them? If so: share them on the interwebs, here!

You have really good opinions.

[The DanMan]

Gordin is worse than Tomas?

Yeah, right.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

It pains me to see how disliked Tomas is...I like the guy.

[Colonel M]

Whoever said Wendell was nerfed in this game is off their rocker. Wendell is so pimp he can reclass to just about anything and rock it. He also gets Excalibur access without training as a Sage.

Top 10 are easily:

10) Est. Est is BEst left alone. She gets a couple points because in a non-warp playthrough you could argue she has Ridersbane utility. Shoddy, but it is there.

9) Roshea. Roshea has no Speed, but he has base Speed of 1 to somewhat counterbalance dangerous situations. For example 7 Speed prevents Roshea from being doubled by most unpromoted classes in the game. 6 Speed actually puts you in a bad risk of being doubled by units such as Cavaliers. He isn't great, but his bases make him useful to survive and trade bot.

8) Rickard. Even if he is a Thief his worse bases leave him way too vulnerable. Master Keys make Rickard almost irrelevant too.

7) Lorenz. Lorenz is pretty awful too, but he has base weapon rank to at least utilize slightly. Effective weaponry is still good to have and he can wield Silver Bow, Ridersbane, and Dragonpike. It isn't a lot, but better than a lot of schmucks lower on this list.

6) Ymir. Hammers matter a lot less when he joins, and Halberd has maybe a use in the next chapter after he joins. Then it's... Steel Bows. Not great really.

5) Vyland / Matthis. Both are only given small credit because they start mounted. I shouldn't even bother crediting Matthis - he starts as an enemy and doesn't recruit himself.

4) Tomas. Okay at least the guy has a Bow rank. Worse than Jeorge and Gordin for sure, though.

3) Radd / Caesar. You know you suck when you literally do nothing upon joining and have nothing to show for it.

2) Dolph. Dolph has a redeeming factor in that he has C Lances and workable bases - barely though. Needing 6 levels just to promote to make use of him is a pain in the fucking ass. Armor Knight blows too.

1) Macellan. If Dolph could be any worse: meet Big Mac. Big Mac has even worse bases, a level behind, mediocre growths, and not even access to effective weaponry. Come. On.

Honorable mentions go to Roger (joins earlier with decent bases but in a shoddy class but he's my bro).

[Mega Koopa]

I think Tomas is an okay character, I'd prefer him over Gordin if you didn't get him so late. I actually used Tomas in my first play through of FE 3.

[Ronman5]

Honestly on harder modes I see why Est gets flak, but I put in some time (leave a few kills for her) and suddenly op as hell ;) but that's just me any ways my 10 worst would be...

10: Maria- pseudo Lena, comes late Etc moving on

9:Tomas- kind of shitty... And is worse than Gordin or Jeorge...

8: Bantu- only is needed for tiki, after that he is so utterly worthless... (Unlike tiki...)

7: Rickard- seriously I'm given a super great thief 3 chapters earlier.. Your worth more for me to go into the cell and killing you for XP

6: Roshea- great def/strength NO SPEED

5: Darros- see above minus defense part

4: Vyland- not going to say much about this man that already hasn't been said

3:Boah- crap version of crap... Literally Wendell is better...

2: Jeigan - literally anyone (even vyland) promoted would be better...

1: Matthis- literally worse of all cavaliers... Promoted or unpromoted...

[Colonel M]

Actually Darros reclassed as an Armor Knight has the highest Defense growth (next to Sedgar / Wolf).

Few units can realistically replicate what Jeigan can do. Hardin, Caeda, and Wendell are very close, and even they have some flaws that Jeigan exceeds in. Hardin basically cannot fly for a while until he promotes, Caeda lacks durability, and Wendell lacks access to Ridersbane (due to weapon ranks). No Cavalier aside from Cain, Abel, and Hardin can realistically be superior to Jeigan - and 2/3 take a while to do so. Promoted classes give Jeigan a lot of leeway on what he can do earlygame and even lategame. Vyland is so shit he only DREAMS he could be as good as Jeigan

I REALLY fail to see why people have Boah and / or Wendell on their Bottom 10 list. Ffs Boah has instant access to Excalibur AND Warp without training! Considering how many Warp Staves this game gives you Boah is easily not even close to Bottom 10. Wendell only requires some training to use Warp (and Excalibur in Bishop. Can as Sage). Meanwhile Wendell's 7 base Speed lets him reclass into DracoKnight or Sniper for hilarious shenanigans. Even though he lacks effective weaponry in DracoKnight the high Strength base and being able to double a lot of units (in a game where doubling outside of Caeda or facing balls slow units is actually difficult in H5) also pushes Wendell outside of Bottom 10.

Like damn, Wendell and Boah have so much utility it is insane. I only wish some games gave units at least this decent in Sage and Bishop classes. And some games give really shitty versions of Sages too (FE9 - I'm looking at you in particular).

Hell even the hate on Wyrs is unreal. He's closer to Warp than even Wendell can be sometimes. What's even sadder is his Warp potential makes him better than half the deadweight combat units like Vyland and Roshea.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Colonel M

[Lord Tullus]

That being said, Reclass is definitely the high point of DSFE, considering most of the complaints are "IT KILLS INDIVIDUALITY!!!" and "THE GAME BECOME BRAINDEAD SIR!". Both of which is, IMHO a pretty retarded complaints

A-FREAKIN'-MEN! The first Time I heard that complaint about the individualism, it was out of the mouth of Mageknight 404 in his SD LP. As good as the playthrough is, this one "opinion" of individuality is F**** STUPID. AHHH!!!!