Making archers better

[XeKr]

Take a page out of Tactics Ogre. 10+ range

Without drastically changing mechanics:

1. Make enemies more dangerous to fight on enemy phase or at 1 range in general.

2. Make it so Tomes don't strictly outclass Bows as a ranged option.

Edited June 24, 2013 by XeKr

[Vashiane]

Take a page out of Tactics Ogre. 10+ range

Without drastically changing mechanics:

1. Make enemies more dangerous to fight on enemy phase or at 1 range in general.

2. Make it so Tomes don't strictly outclass Bows as a ranged option.

Tomes shouldn't be able to magically go through/around walls like they could. But bows going through walls is even MORE implausible, that's the only problem with that.

But the Archer/Sniper class should get a range boost for bows that doesn't apply if you're in a different class. For example, Assassins using a bow would have the standard 1-2 range, but an Archer using the same bow would get a 2-3 range. If that Archer's using a Longbow or a Towering Bow, then it goes from 2-4 or 3-4.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Vashiane

[The Void]

Anyways in theory this would make archers far more valuable, but at the same time it would be a huge buff to the flying classes and they already appear to be high ranked classes for the most part.

Well, that's a thing about FIre Emblem. The thing is, FE games more than often than not do favor mounted units over non-mounted units, seeing as how so many chapters are "Get The Lord Character To The Place", "Kill The Guy/Girl", and "Escape To Place", chapters where you want to units who can move far enough, if only to clear a path for the Lord. As well as how assorted mounted characters have stats high enough to keep up with (at least) assorted non-mounted characters, and their weaknesses are neither common enough, or strong enough to be that much of a problem.

And in regards to magic users, a future FE could do what Gaiden did and have magic decrease HP when used.

Edited June 24, 2013 by The Void

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

General design:

Perhaps bows could gain effective weapon bonus against ground mounted units too? Better longbows would also be nice. Like Iron and Steel grades, since the basic Longbow in FE13 gets really weak as the game progresses.

Better terrain would help a lot too. Wide open fields are not really an Archer's friend.

Skill revision suggestions off the cuff:

Designated Target (Archer 1) - Enemies damaged at range by the unit are marked until the end of the enemy phase. If the enemy is killed, the Archer gets bonus experience equal to the CEXP that was gained by the unit making the kill.

Maim (Archer 10) - Enemies damaged at range by the unit are temporarily debuffed, receiving -4 Spd, Def and Res (does not stack; goes away at the end of the enemy phase).

Deadeye (Sniper 5) - At range, when displayed hit is 100, the overflow is converted to crit (not sure on the conversation ratio here... Maybe 3 hit to 1 crit?). +15 Hit when wielding Bows.

Bow Master (Sniper 15) - Bow maximum range +1. Once per player phase, grants an extra turn after a Bow attack. However, the first target may not be attacked again during this second turn.

This still doesn't really solve their enemy phase problem, but does make them more flexible player phase units with desirable skills. With the way I've worded them, other weapon types can benefit too, but ultimately it's Bows that maximize their power.

[Shadow Mir]

General design:

Perhaps bows could gain effective weapon bonus against ground mounted units too? Better longbows would also be nice. Like Iron and Steel grades, since the basic Longbow in FE13 gets really weak as the game progresses.

Better terrain would help a lot too. Wide open fields are not really an Archer's friend.

Agreed on better terain, but as to longbows, I'd say at least longbows in Awakening were better than they were in pre-Shadow Dragon FEs.

[BlueFire]

Maim (Archer 10) - Enemies damaged at range by the unit are temporarily debuffed, receiving -4 Spd, Def and Res (does not stack; goes away at the end of the enemy phase).

You might be on to something... I wonder if Archers could become an offensive utility class. I'd like to see status effects and debuffs on bows.

Also, let them punch at 1-range in hopes of getting a bit of exp.

Edited June 25, 2013 by BlueFire

[Mighty Kamina]

While it wouldn't make snipers amazing I think they should've gotten Counter and either Hawkeye or Galeforce.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Kamina

[shadykid]

While it wouldn't make snipers amazing I think they should've gotten Counter and either Hawkeye or Galeforce.

counter-not really useful, you'd have to get hit

hawkeye-practically worthless, snipers don't have accuracy issues at least

galeforce-lol this would be hilarious

[Jotari]

Give Archers the ability to create and launch any sword in the game using their fantastic English vocabulary.

[Vashiane]

Give Archers the ability to create and launch any sword in the game using their fantastic English vocabulary.

Serene's Forest needs a like button. Now.

[arvilino]

I think the first thing that could be done to improve Archers is give them Canto/Re-move(call it fire and move or something like that) and do not allow mounted units as to have anything like it again. Alternatively it could be made a feature of attacking with a Bow weapon, which would make them a better option for the classes that also get bows.

I always thought it was pretty odd the class that relies most on positioning(due to no 1 range) has average or even joint worse(FE11 and FE12) movement. Even without adjusting range or anything else this should make them significantly better. since they can attack and then re-position in a way to either avoid enemies or allow them to counter during the enemy phase, maybe give Archers and Snipers higher move than other foot classes to help with this as well.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I think their lolbasestats is a bigger reason

I mean, seriously, list an Archer who actually have w1n bases.

[lightdasher]

I'm still on the bandwagon for including daggers as it's own weapon type, given to archers and theifs (and what ever else makes sense).

On Archers they'd use it if they're being melee'd but it's damage would be poor of course.

[The Void]

Archers/Snipers getting any sort of 1-2 range would make them less distinct.

FE should get more unit distinctions. Not less.

[dondon151]

de-buffs in fire emblem are generally pointless

every mook enemy should be 2RKO-able at worst. even most bosses can be ORKO'd and at worst they should be designed to be 3RKO'd. there's no room to apply de-buffs that benefit the player. they would solely benefit the enemy.

(berserk, sleep, and silence, when casted from long range, are useful, though.)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

That's why my suggestions focused on making their long range more desirable.

[Volke29]

I'd argue FE9 Rolf is better than Virion. FE10's definetely is. Wil is also probably better and at least tomas can reclass.

Rolf was great, I gave him the "Knight Ring," (I think that was its name) where he would get movement like he was on horse. I do agree that I tend to not use archers much. Assassin class is great for that, you get great skills (love lethality with pass and boots item ((all of which Severa has)))

I think attacking from 4 or 5 tiles would be OP. Snipers should be able to attack from two spaces away, then they'd be deadly, IMO.

edit* listed wrong skill (move +1)

Edited June 29, 2013 by Volke29

[Shadow Mir]

Rolf was great, I gave him the "Knight Ring," (I think that was its name) where he would get movement like he was on horse. I do agree that I tend to not use archers much. Assassin class is great for that, you get great skills (love pass with movement +1 and boots item ((all of which Severa has)))

I think attacking from 4 or 5 tiles would be OP. Snipers should be able to attack from two spaces away, then they'd be deadly, IMO.

That's what it was indeed. And IMO, Assassins got shafted skill wise (Lethality's practically worthless, and Pass sounds good on paper, but in practice, isn't that useful).

[Titamon]

I wouldn't call Lethality worthless. Unreliable yes, but it's better than nothing.

[Interceptor]

every mook enemy should be 2RKO-able at worst. even most bosses can be ORKO'd and at worst they should be designed to be 3RKO'd. there's no room to apply de-buffs that benefit the player. they would solely benefit the enemy.

There's no reason that this needs to be the case going forward. If stronger enemies is what needs to happen to make bows more useful, so be it. If you like the old system, play the old games.

That's what it was indeed. And IMO, Assassins got shafted skill wise (Lethality's practically worthless, and Pass sounds good on paper, but in practice, isn't that useful).

It's all about your style. Pass works extremely well in practice if you are using the Assassin as a bow-user in Lunatic+, since it prevents them from getting boxed in.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Well, in the context of Postgame, Assassin is lucky that they hit jackpot in term of Pair Up Bonus

[Volke29]

I think pass is great. It all depends on what type of character you want to make. My strongest unit has pass, used the "boots" item and it is very effective. She can move great distance and take out strong characters and I usually don't have to worry about her because she (Severa) is hard to kill.

Lethality rarely triggers for me. I'll take high speed + high crit chance + marriage to a stronger unit than Lethality. Just my two bits.

It'd be nice if they brought back the crossbow for archers. If there is a crossbow in game, I haven't seen it in 90 hours of gameplay.

[Shadow Mir]

I think pass is great. It all depends on what type of character you want to make. My strongest unit has pass, used the "boots" item and it is very effective. She can move great distance and take out strong characters and I usually don't have to worry about her because she (Severa) is hard to kill.

Lethality rarely triggers for me. I'll take high speed + high crit chance + marriage to a stronger unit than Lethality. Just my two bits.

It'd be nice if they brought back the crossbow for archers. If there is a crossbow in game, I haven't seen it in 90 hours of gameplay.

I guess. It's just that in this game, Pass's uses are rather limited, sadly...

[shadykid]

Well, in the context of Postgame, Assassin is lucky that they hit jackpot in term of Pair Up Bonus

debatable, strength doesn't do much when you're blasting everything with Celica's Gale

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

+4 SPD and +2 SKL is damn lovely

Theres no bonus that is + High SPD +Mag +SKL anyway