gringe Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 They're not too different; just worded a bit more naturally I think. You're the only one who's inferred that, but if you really want to see it, then I have no problem with showing you. I'm not going to the trouble of formatting it for easy reading though. C support: [OpenMidRight][LoadFace][0x35][0x01][OpenMidLeft][LoadFace][0x2C][0x01][OpenMidLeft]Hey, you're apirate, right?[A][OpenMidRight]Uh, yeah...I guess.[A][ToggleSmile]That was your firstthought, huh? Man...[A][OpenMidLeft]Something wrong?[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]I used to be a seafaringmerchant.[A][OpenMidLeft]Really? You must've made a lotof money, then. Lucky you.[A]Us poor folk gotta keep breakingour backs I guess... See ya.[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Wait.[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Huh?[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]What's my bag doingin your hand?[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleMouthMove]......[A][ToggleMouthMove]S-some eye you've got.[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Gee, thanks.Now give it back.[A][OpenMidLeft]Fine...[A]But there's no treasure Ican't steal![A]Be on your guard, for younever know when I'll strike![A][X] B support [OpenMidRight][LoadFace][0x35][0x01][OpenMidLeft][LoadFace][0x2C][0x01][OpenMidLeft]Hey, Geese...[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]You again?[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Oh, Geese...I can't keepit hidden any longer...[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleMouthMove]......[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleMouthMove]I'm madly in love with you!Please, hold me...[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]...Hey.[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Uh, yeah?[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Were you hit with a berserkstaff or something?[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]What?[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]You're a lousy actor.Why are you even trying?[A][OpenMidLeft]What?![A]My expert seduction skills failed?!I should have given you more credit![A][OpenMidRight]Gee, thanks.[A]But I'm not really the lovey-doveytype. That won't work on me.[A][OpenMidLeft]I-I knew that!This was just a test![A][ToggleSmile]But next time's for real.You won't know what hit ya![A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Sure I won't.Good luck with that.[A][X] A support [OpenMidRight][LoadFace][0x35][0x01][OpenMidLeft][LoadFace][0x2C][0x01][OpenMidLeft]Geese![A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Yeah?[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Does this look familiar?[A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Hey, that's my...[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Heh heh![A]Guess you weren't sogood after all![A]There's no treasureI can't steal![A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Sigh...[A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Well, let's see now.What have we got in here?[A][ToggleMouthMove]..................[A][ToggleMouthMove][ToggleSmile]What...what theheck is this?![A]It's nothing butworthless junk![A][OpenMidRight]It's not junk.Maps, compasses...[A]It's sailingequipment.[A][OpenMidLeft]But what about treasure?!Where's your treasure?![A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]Ha ha ha, I never hadany treasure![A]I'm broke.[A]Drowning in debt,to tell the truth.[A]I've got nothingworth stealing![A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleSmile]Grr... Wipe that smileoff your face![A]Being broke is nothingto be proud of![A][OpenMidRight][ToggleSmile]It's okay. I've got a dream.[A]I'm gonna go back to being a traderand hit the jackpot. You'll see.[A]My ship'll be so full of richesit'll barely stay afloat.[A]Maybe then you'll have somethingto steal![A][OpenMidLeft][ToggleMouthMove].........[A][ToggleMouthMove][ToggleSmile]Did...did I lose?Are you a big shot?[A]...Or just an idiot?[A][X] If it's that unclear for you, I could add "Your stuff is mine!" or something like that to the end of the B support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 No, it's not nearly as obscure now that all three supports are situated in their context. It still feels like you've replaced something for the sake of replacing it, however, as now her apparent love-act comes out as a non-sequitur, given their previous support conversation. There's no clear lead into or out of her sudden trick. Still, this is your rewrite project, so if you find this acceptable, it must be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 I don't see how it's any more sudden than it was originally, frankly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I think I like Gringe's translation, and in fact, I'm guessing is what Cath probably meant anyways (I'm guessing she didn't put a lot of thought into just what she was asking Geese to do). The only nitpicks I have is that the wording of some of Geese's lines seems to differ a little much from how it was originally. So I edited two of Geese's lines to something I thought would sound better and be more faithful. Here you go... Cath: Hey, Geese...Geese: You again?Cath: Oh, Geese... I can't keep it hidden any longer...Geese: ......Cath: I'm madly in love with you! Please hold me...Geese: ...Hey.Cath: Uh, yeah?Geese: Were you hit with a berserk staff or something?Cath: What?Geese: I hope so. If not, you're a terrible actor.Cath: What?! My expert seduction skills failed?! I should have given you more credit!Geese: Thanks, I guess...Not that you made it very hard...Cath: W-well of course not! This was just a test! But next time's for real. You won't know what hit ya!Geese: Sure I won't. Good luck with that. And actually, while I don't like this as much, there's actually another way we could do this, while still preserving a teensy bit more of Cath's personality (though at the cost of making Geese seem a bit smarter)... Cath: Hey, Geeeeese.Geese: Yeah?Cath: Ohhhh... I think I'm drunk...Geese: ......Cath: Can you stay and revive me? Come on...Geese: ...Hey.Cath: Yeah?Geese: You do realize you're asking me to rape you, right?Cath: ...WHAT!? B-but, I didn't mean...Geese: Anyways, whatever you were trying to do, it's not working.Cath: Tch! So you're not fazed at all?! You're no ordinary man!Geese: Thanks, I guess...Not that you made it very hard...Cath: W-well of course not! This was just a test! But next time's for real. You won't know what hit ya!Geese: Sure I won't. Good luck with that. Edited September 17, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookofholsety Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 literally the entire point is that Cath's chosen method of fleecing Geese, whatever it happens to be, is sudden and out of nowhere and that's (mostly) why Geese sees straight through it i'm sure there are plenty of things that could be criticised about the edit, but claiming that the rewritten advance is a non-sequitur is just plain counterproductive since that's exactly what the alcohol thing was too and Cath obviously isn't playing the long con here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) It is non-sequitur because, as I said, there is no lead into the love dupe being made to fill in, nor an exit out of. Previously, it was quite clear that Cath was trying to get close to Geese so that she can make off with one of his belongings, whereas now that meaning is ambiguous at best, and completely gone in the least, replaced by this new love trick (which the love dupe itself is pulled suddenly and singularly in this support, making it not only out of suddenness, but also out of character, as nothing is gestured towards this in the first place).In the original support, it was the act of stealing that connected all three, and this reference was quite clear. Now in this revised support B, there is no clear reference to stealing, making her love stunt even more disconnected. The issue is supposing that the audience will clearly understand that this is all a guise for the sake of stealing, because there is no clear indication that this is so in the revision. As I said, insinuation makes for bad story telling. Her trying to steal is hardly sudden and out of nowhere, but this cheap replacement is, much like the wrong patch sewn on a quilt. Edited September 17, 2013 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 (which the love dupe itself is pulled suddenly and singularly in this support, making it not only out of suddenness, but also out of character, as nothing is gestured towards this in the first place) I think your problem is that you're taking her deception seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I think you should settle this straight: this isn't a problem of mine, but of the text. Now, again, if you see no problem, there must not be anything to fix. This was the original line which allowed the drunken guise to remain relevant to Cath's character: Cath: I-I know that! I was just testing you! I'll get serious next time. I'll take your stuff without you even noticing! Your revision has ambiguous reference in regards to this line: Cath: I-I knew that! This was just a test! But next time's for real. You won't know what hit ya! Like Geese falling in love for her, so hard he falls flat on his back? This is entirely likely given the context of this support thus far. You haven't integrated the replacement as smoothly as it could have been. Cath's intentions are loose, which is a sign of bad writing. It should be an aim to improve the script, right? Edited September 17, 2013 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I don't agree that her intentions are ambiguous in context, given the C and A support. But if all I need to do is change one line to make it explicit, then that's not a problem. It seems you got the wrong idea and we've gotten way, waaaaaay off the point of the slight change. I never intended to make her a love interest. I want that clear. Cath: I-I knew that! This was just a test! But next time's for real. You won't know what hit ya! Your stuff is mine! There. Edited September 17, 2013 by gringe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Will that even fit in the text box? As I said, insinuation makes for bad story telling. I...disagree wholeheartedly. In fact, it's a great story telling tool in my opinion. It's part of what makes foreshadowing work! I mean, obviously you don't want to take it too far, but doing otherwise would turn the characters into androids who spout nothing but exposition, and would also insult the audience! Edited September 17, 2013 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Doesn't matter if it fits. I can add another line if necessary. Regardless, in all likelihood, it'll be more than just the one line anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Still, what do you think about my first idea in regards to Geese? Just rewriting the line slightly the way I did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 It's not bad, but I think it needs to come from Cath if it's to be completely unambiguous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I...disagree wholeheartedly. In fact, it's a great story telling tool in my opinion. It's part of what makes foreshadowing work! I mean, obviously you don't want to take it too far, but doing otherwise would turn the characters into androids who spout nothing but exposition, and would also insult the audience! Of course it works well, if done correctly. However the love line was badly integrated, having no significant hooks. One could have lifted it out of the text and nothing of meaning would have been lost. It is badly done when there the author expects an audience to get at something that isn't clearly gotten across in the first place (perhaps as badly as me expecting whomever's reading this to know I'm currently thinking of that strange, abrupt theatre scene in Dicken's 'Great Expecations' and that it makes a good parallel to the problem of Support B). If something is misunderstood, the author failed in their attempt to convey their intentions. Edited September 17, 2013 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Well anyway, I think it's been settled. Let's get back to talking about piss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 It is badly done when there the author expects an audience to get at something that isn't clearly gotten across in the first place (perhaps as badly as me expecting whomever's reading this to know I'm currently thinking of that strange, abrupt theatre scene in Dicken's 'Great Expecations' and that it makes a good parallel to the problem of Support B). If something is misunderstood, the author failed in their attempt to convey their intentions. Cath introduces herself to Geese as someone who wants his purse before the conversation ever happens. Then her whole love thing comes out of nowhere, and is then described as an act by Geese, and not a terribly good one. Cath is surprised and all but confirms that it was an act, saying that she has more tricks up her sleeves. And Geese just goes "whatever". I just don't get where that leaves room to interpret it as Cath actually being in love with him, as I don't believe stealing from someone you love is typically something that one would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Cath introduces herself to Geese as someone who wants his purse before the conversation ever happens. Then her whole love thing comes out of nowhere, and is then described as an act by Geese, and not a terribly good one. Cath is surprised and all but confirms that it was an act, saying that she has more tricks up her sleeves. And Geese just goes "whatever". I just don't get where that leaves room to interpret it as Cath actually being in love with him, as I don't believe stealing from someone you love is typically something that one would do. Yeah, and if we go on to a next logical conclusion, Cath will show up as a reformed Nun, saying she's changed her ways, or maybe that she's skipping town with bandits on the next run. The new revision just as likely sets a case for Cath to be erratic and unpredictable over being a thief around Geese. I'd like to know the last part myself, for as far as I know, gringe was the only person bringing up Cath and loving Geese. I was pointing out that the revision didn't particularly flow with her other supports, and actually left it open as to what Cath would be doing with Geese. Where in the original text, it's quite clear she's only after stealing his goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 You're driving me insane. It's settled. Stop. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Sorry for bringing it up again Celice :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Sorry for bringing it up again Celice :( Don't apologize--I would rather give you a charitable answer than stop dead. It is a more composed thing to do. This is, after all, a public forum geared towards public discussion. The initial question about the supports was even aired out to get a public reception. No need to apologize for keeping in line. Edited September 17, 2013 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Bah, who cares? Cath sucks and you should steal her lockpick and then kill her off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 are you going to change her name to cass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Nope, she's Cath unless someone can convince me that Cass is a better name. (I personally have very little opinion on her name so either way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 the strongest evidence is that cass is far more common of a name than cath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringe Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Well, even so, both seem pretty plausible to me as names. To be honest, I'd rather not go through and risk the index duplication glitch all over the place, so unless there's some really hard evidence suggesting it should be Cass, I'll stick with Cath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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