H4 195 turns

[shadykid]

All wifi features do is add reliability to LTC strats tbh.

Like, Growth Drop helps Marth reach stat thresholds so your run doesn't end abruptly to screwage. Rainbow Pot allows you to meet doubling thresholds and/or 2HKO/3HKO'ing thresholds. I don't think they're a big deal.

now try a single-segment H4 speedrun without Growth Drop

[Redwall]

Don't sweat it. Just look on the bright side, you'll be one of the very few people to clear Lunatic' without wifi features. No doubt you'll get a triple A too.

Well, I'm not sure if I'll ever finish, haha. I might just find other things to do. Even if I do finish, I'm not sure I'll get a triple-A rank since I'm not going for all the villages.

All wifi features do is add reliability to LTC strats tbh.

Like, Growth Drop helps Marth reach stat thresholds so your run doesn't end abruptly to screwage. Rainbow Pot allows you to meet doubling thresholds and/or 2HKO/3HKO'ing thresholds. I don't think they're a big deal.

If I were going for strict LTC, I probably would use the Rainbow Potion. I'm simply trying to have a somewhat optimized mix of turncounts and reliability under the constraints set forth; invariably, there will be instances of growth screwage and blessings throughout the run, but my plan is to just take them as they come, warts and all.

In other news, the OP is updated with P7 and P8.

[spoiler=Prologue 7: Cain (4/28)]A three-turn clear is possible at lowish but not unreasonable odds: if all three of Caeda, Luke, and Athena at their base stats attack Cain with their Steel weapons, Cain will have only 2 HP remaining. Thus, if Caeda has +1 Str from base OR the three units have a combined +2 Str from their bases, then they will KO Cain. I didn't meet the benchmarks, so I settled for a four-turn clear without Athena. While I met them by the end of the level due to Caeda's level-up, I hadn't fielded Athena, and I'm not sure if Caeda's level-up occurred before or after KOing Cain.

Turn 1: Merric attacked the left Knight, and Heath finished. Caeda attacked the Myrmidon, making sure to stay out of range of the other enemies (saw this idea in Balcerzak's video some time ago). Ryan, Wrys, and Luke advanced slightly. During the enemy phase, a Myrmidon attacked Heath; the other Knight took a counterattack from Merric; and the other Myrmidon died from Caeda's counterattack.

Turn 2: Positioned 1D1R from the bottom fort, Merric finished the Knight he chipped during turn 1 EP. Wrys Healed Merric. Luke and Caeda teamed up on the Archer. Heath pulled back by a square and used a Vulnerary, though I think I would have had to do something different if he hadn't just procured a point of Def.

Turn 3: Caeda blocked the northeastern fort, Wrys blocked the southeastern fort, Luke blocked the northern fort near the center, and Heath KOed the Archer. During the enemy phase, a Cavalier spawned and hit Heath, while Cain attacked Luke.

Turn 4: Heath pulled back and healed, with the Cavalier dying on the enemy phase to his counter. Everyone else ganged up on Cain and KOed him during the player phase.

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class
                Heath   7.87 25 13  01  11  05  04  16  00  C Lance             Knight
                Ryan    4.02 20 08  00  07  05  04  08  00  D Bow               Archer 
                Luke    3.42 22 08  00  06  08  04  07  00  D Sword E Lance    Cavalier 
                Rody    1.20 base
                Caeda   6.58 20 07  02  09  07  15  08  06  D Lance            Pegasus Knight
                Wrys    who cares
                Athena 10.72 base
                Merric 11.13 25 00  07  06  11  07  07  06  D Tomes           Mage 
                Cecille 3.10 base

[spoiler=Prologue 8 (11/39)]I fielded Caeda, Heath, Merric, Athena, Marth, Wrys, Luke, and Ryan.

Turn 1: Formed a five-unit line with Caeda, Heath, Merric, Athena, and Marth. Marth was positioned at the right in order to draw in the RHS Hunter and Bandit. The two Thieves took counterattacks during the enemy phase from Merric and Athena.

Turn 2: Cleaned up the enemies and placed Heath in range of the LHS bandit.

Turn 3: I hid my units, as attacking the Hunter from 1-range would have triggered the Silver Axe Bandits and Mages. Heath was positioned just in range of the LHS Thief. During the enemy phase, the Hunter attacked Merric, who was positioned on the throne, and the Bandit died to Heath's enemy-phase counter (Heath was and is a bit Str-blessed; this wouldn't have worked with a Str-screwed Avatar). The LHS Thief attacked Heath.

Turn 4: Finished up the enemies in the immediate vicinity and put each of Ryan and Merric in range of an advancing Hand Axe Bandit.

Turn 5: In anticipation of the advancing Thieves, I put each of Heath and Caeda in range of a Thief. Ryan and Merric retreated and healed up while each staying in range of a Hand Axe Bandit. Everyone else was also bottled up towards the corners.

Turn 6: Cleaned up the two Thieves and two Bandits. Athena walked in range of the Silver Axe Bandit, drawing in that Bandit as well as the two Mages and remaining Bandit.

Turn 7: With Ogma and/or Est and good AI manipulation, it should be possible to clean up the four enemies drawn in on turn 6 during turn 7 player phase. I instead chose to retreat, making sure Merric was in range of the Hand Axe. On the enemy phase, the Silver Axe bandit weakened by Athena died to a counterattack from Marth.

Turn 8: Cleaned up the Mages and remaining Bandit.

Turn 9: At full health, Caeda flew in range of a Silver Sword Thief and a Levin Sword Thief. Merric walked in range of the Levin Sword Thief on the opposite side of the map. During the enemy phase, the Silver Sword Thief on Caeda's side died to her counterattack (this doesn't happen unless Caeda is very Str-blessed and/or the Thief spawns with 28 HP/2 Def. I don't think it really influenced the turncount of this particular attempt for several reasons, but I suspect that the fastest clear will require this sort of luck). The other Thief took a counterattack from Merric.

Turn 10: Retreated and healed my units.

Turn 11: Cleaned up. Athena KOed Katarina.

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class
                Marth   7.87 27 09  00  10  11  09  08  00  D Sword            Lord 
                Heath   9.82 27 14  03  13  06  06  18  00  C Lance             Knight
                Ryan    4.62 20 08  00  07  05  04  08  00  D Bow               Archer 
                Luke    5.59 24 10  00  07  09  05  08  00  D Sword E Lance    Cavalier 
                Rody    1.20 base
                Caeda   8.25 20 07  02  11  19  16  09  06  D Lance            Pegasus Knight
                Wrys    6.06 16 00  03  07  10  04  03  08  D Staff           Curate
                Athena 11.53 26 09  00  13  14  ??  ??  01  B Sword            Myrmidon 
                Merric 11.87 25 00  07  06  11  07  07  06  D Tomes           Mage
                Cecille 3.10 base

I started to write down Athena's stats right as the stage was ending, so I didn't actually get them all down.

[PKL]

P7 can be 3 turned with Ryan fielded if you go Est. Est also does better turnswise than Cain in P8.

[Redwall]

My Ryan got ORKOed by Archers, so I'm not sure I would have gotten the three-turn clear. But yeah, even if it took me four turns, Est probably would have cut a turn in P8 by taking out a Mage. Oh well.

[fatgamecat]

All wifi features do is add reliability to LTC strats tbh.

Like, Growth Drop helps Marth reach stat thresholds so your run doesn't end abruptly to screwage. Rainbow Pot allows you to meet doubling thresholds and/or 2HKO/3HKO'ing thresholds. I don't think they're a big deal.

Rainbow Pot lets you cut off turns on some chapters, not just add some reliability to an unpotted run. It also makes the early-mid game significantly easier. Also if you're talking about "wifi features" in general, the wifi store lets you cut off turns by buying extra rescue staves.

I think you might be underestimating how much easier the wifi features make lunatic mode.

[PKL]

Wifi =/= DLC. RP, GD and BD are DLC. The other thing youre talking about is wifi shop.

I still stand by what my experience with this game has taught me. All RP GD and BD do is add reliability and make it easier to meet stat thresholds for LTC. Not neccesarily saving turns in most cases. (only chapter 4 and 10x come to mind as turn savers for the RP). You made it sound like playing with DLC is wrong.

[fatgamecat]

Wifi =/= DLC. RP, GD and BD are DLC. The other thing youre talking about is wifi shop.

I still stand by what my experience with this game has taught me. All RP GD and BD do is add reliability and make it easier to meet stat thresholds for LTC. Not neccesarily saving turns in most cases. (only chapter 4 and 10x come to mind as turn savers for the RP). You made it sound like playing with DLC is wrong.

You mention "wifi features" then immediately start talking about Growth Drops with no mention of the wifi store, yet Growth Drops are DLC that "=/= wifi", despite needing to use wifi to download the DLC. Ok then.

What is your experience with this game that led you to that conclusion?

How did it sound that way? That wasn't my intention at all.

Edited July 13, 2013 by mjemirzian

[PKL]

Like a bazillion LTC runs with DLC and no DLC

Anyway, back to the topic.

Edited July 13, 2013 by PKL

[Aircalipoor]

I have to disagree with rainbow potion making no difference. The +2 Def is important to change the number of attacks a unit can endure, +2 Spd can make a difference in doubling or not and even + 2 Str. can change the number of necessary attacks to kill an enemy.

Draug is less usefull in chapter 1 without a rbp. He(as a pirate) can´t double a brigand with 13 AS, can´t 2HKO with 18 Atk and gets OHKOed. A rbp would make him double,would make him 2HKO and make him survive with one HP. He can´t change to fighter on H4, as 2HKOing is less usefull than ORKOing.

[PKL]

I have to disagree with rainbow potion making no difference. The +2 Def is important to change the number of attacks a unit can endure, +2 Spd can make a difference in doubling or not and even + 2 Str. can change the number of necessary attacks to kill an enemy.

Draug is less usefull in chapter 1 without a rbp. He(as a pirate) can´t double a brigand with 13 AS, can´t 2HKO with 18 Atk and gets OHKOed. A rbp would make him double,would make him 2HKO and make him survive with one HP. He can´t change to fighter on H4, as 2HKOing is less usefull than ORKOing.

But Draug's difference makes no difference in the chapter when it come to turns. It just makes him get more exp and get better.

[Redwall]

Updated with Chapters 1 and 2.

[spoiler=Chapter 1 (8/47)]I gave a Seraph Robe to Heath, who was Spd-blessed enough to double the Bandits as a Pirate, and, with the Seraph Robe, durable enough to survive two Silver Axe hits with a single point of health. I don't think the eight-turn clear happens without either a stat-blessed Avatar or more than one stat-booster. The Rainbow Potion, combined with a single booster if necessary, also works.

Deployed Arran (General), Luke (Hunter), Draug (Cavalier), Cecille (Peg Knight), Heath (Pirate), Rody (Curate), Gordin (Cavalier), Ryan (Archer), and Marth (Lord).

Turn 1: Arran used the Steel Lance on the northwest Bandit, and Luke KOed with the Iron Bow; if Luke weren't so Str-blessed, Arran would have simply used the Silver Lance instead. Rody healed Arran from Arran's left, and Draug moved up to shield Rody from the Bandit. Cecille headed toward the cave. Heath moved in range of two Bandits (well, three, but I knew one of them would attack Draug). Marth joined the other units, making sure to be shielded. Although Luke was not shielded, the one Bandit who could attack him instead chose to attack Draug, presumably because the Bandit was hoping for a crit. Gordin and Ryan headed left but stayed out of enemy range. During the enemy phase, Heath ORKOed two Bandits, and Draug (I think) got a crit on the Bandit that attacked him, though it wasn't important since I a bow user and another Cavalier ready to team up on that Bandit. Not really planning on using Draug long-term, either.

Turn 2: Cecille visited the cave; in retrospect, this was probably a mistake since I could likely have KOed the Thief (who didn't spawn) with Luke at a later time for free EXP. Arran and Luke teamed up on another Bandit for a KO. Marth moved towards the village while staying out of range of the axe user. Gordin and Ryan had nothing to do since Draug ate their lunch during turn 1. Rody healed somebody, probably Draug. During the enemy phase, the Hunter attacked Luke.

Turn 3: From here on out, it's pretty straightforward. Marth recruited Mallesia. Draug (either him or Gordin; probably Draug since his Def is lower than Marth's) blocked Mallesia's eventual destination this turn, preventing her from being attacked. Mallesia moved to said square and healed Draug. Luke got into position to attack the Bandit on the next player phase. During the enemy phase, the Bandit attacked Draug and took a sizable counter. I think I used the save point sometime either this turn or the next.

Turn 4: Luke chipped the Bandit for Marth to finish. Someone visited the shop and bought two Javelins. People got healed and got into position for turn 5.

Turn 5. Arran was healed and got on the fort with a Steel Lance equipped. Cecille headed left to distract some enemies, but stayed just out of their range. Marth used his max move for this turn and the next two.

Turn 6: Ryan and Luke used their bows to finish the two enemies Arran weakened. Heath ORKOed the Bandit, and Arran teamed up with someone (probably Draug) to KO the Hunter drawn to the right. Marth moved towards Lorenz.

Turn 7: Only two enemies remained, so I cleaned up pretty easily. Marth talked to Lorenz.

Turn 8: Heal and Seize.

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class      Boosters
                Marth     8.04 27 09  00  11  12  10  08  00  D Sword           Lord
                Heath    10.42 35 16  04  13  15  06  12  00  E Axe             Pirate     Seraph Robe
                Ryan      4.89 20 08  00  07  05  04  08  00  D Bow             Archer
                Luke      6.74 25 11  00  10  09  05  04  00  E Bow             Hunter
                Rody      2.56 18 01  01  04  05  06  02  06  E Staff              Curate
                Arran     3.25 base
                Draug     6.47 base
                Cecille   3.10 base
                Gordin    5.32 base
                Mallesia  2.02 17 00  03  01  05  12  01  05  C Staff           Cleric

Expenses: Sold the Bullion. Bought 2x Javelin, 1x Iron Axe, 1x Seraph Robe. (10680 G remaining)

[spoiler=Chapter 2 (6/53)]This was a doozy; turn 1 required very precise positioning to bait the AI, and later turns involved some shaky hit rates from Steel weapons or from Heath facing WTD against Swords, though save points made this somewhat less annoying than it could have been. And yes, I did scoop up both the Lady Sword and Bord.

As with Chapter 1, I don't see any way of clearing this in six turns on H4 without either a stat-blessed Avatar or the Rainbow Potion.

I forged a +8 Mt Iron Bow at the beginning of the level. I chose this over the +5 Mt Steel Bow suggested by dondon et al. to allow both Luke and General Arran to use the bow (recall that General Arran has no WEXP in bows).

Turn 1: Draug headed northwest to intercept the Lady Sword Thief. Marth recruited Bord. Luring the enemies the way I wanted was sort of annoying since it's just trial and error.

o A o o o
o B o o o
C D E o o
o F o o o
G o o o o
o H o o I

A = Heath
B = Ryan
C = Catria
D = Arran
E = Mallesia
F = Luke
G = Rody
H = Gordin
I = Marth (village tile)

Turn 2 PP: Luke chipped a Hunter with an unforged Iron Bow, though I could have used the forge if he were Str-cursed. Catria recruited Warren and finished the Hunter. Heath moved up and ORKOed another Hunter. Bord moved near Heath while staying out of range of the Soldiers. Marth headed north. Mallesia healed Luke. Arran and Ryan moved north through the forest. Gordin headed around the forest, in preparation for a single turn 5 attack, as his initial positioning was too far away to let him get through the forests in time. Draug continued heading northwest.
Turn 2 EP: Two Soldiers were ORKOed by Heath. Catria got lucky against the remaining Soldier with a crit, though it wasn't necessary since I had spare bow users during the subsequent player phase.

Turn 3 PP: Bord used the save point. Draug hit the Thief with a Javelin. Heath was healed by Mallesia and headed north, just out of range of a Dracoknight, to take out two Cavaliers during the enemy phase. Arran moved north. Warren moved west to use the other save point on the next turn. The bow users moved as close to the action as they could without getting in enemy range. Catria moved left and used a Vulnerary. Marth headed north.
Turn 3 EP: Two Cavaliers died to Heath, while the other got chipped by Marth.

Turn 4 PP: Bord and Luke teamed up to KO the Cavalier weakened by Marth. Arran unequipped his weapons to avoid getting KOed by the boss, who would double Arran and gang up on him with the Draco to his right. Arran, Marth, and Heath were positioned left to right in that order, with Heath positioned on the center-right fort using a Vulnerary during the player phase. Marth also used a Vulnerary to survive a hit from the remaining Cavalier, whose positioning was limited due to the forests. Catria finished the Lady Sword Thief. Draug equipped the Steel Lance and moved in range of the leftmost Dracoknight. The bow users moved closer in preparation for Draco-sniping.
Turn 4 EP: Marth countered the Cavalier with the Rapier. Arran survived the boss (who doubled him) and a Dracoknight. Heath countered a Dracoknight, scoring an unnecessary crit (someone would have KOed him anyway on the next turn). Draug countered a DK towards the west with his Steel Lance.

Turn 5: With his unforged Steel Bow, Warren teamed up with Draug (who switched to his Javelin) to weaken the leftmost Dracoknight for Catria to finish with her own Javelin. They faced shaky hit rates, but that's what the save point is for. Everyone else cleaned up, passing the Iron Bow forge around (I used it three times this turn). Gordin KOed someone with his unforged Steel Bow.

Turn 6: Heal and Seize. No enemies were standing at the beginning of the turn.

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class      Boosters
                Marth     8.22 27 09  00  11  12  10  08  00  D Sword           Lord
                Heath    11.64 36 16  04  14  16  06  12  00  E Axe             Pirate     Seraph Robe
                Ryan      5.59 21 09  00  08  06  05  08  00  D Bow             Archer
                Luke      7.93 26 12  00  10  09  05  04  00  E Bow             Hunter
                Rody      2.56 not using him anymore
                Arran     3.55 base
                Draug     6.82 base
                Gordin    5.59 base
                Mallesia  2.87 17 00  03  01  05  12  01  05  C Staff           Cleric
                Catria    7.48 23 08  02  09  15  10  09  00  C Lance           Pegasus Knight
                Linde     4.00 base

Expenses: Forged a +8 Mt Iron Bow. (2540 G remaining)

[eclipse]

You recruit Cord in Chapter 2, not Bord! Otherwise, I am enjoying this write-up!

[shadykid]

You recruit Cord in Chapter 2, not Bord! Otherwise, I am enjoying this write-up!

but who cares

[dondon151]

Rainbow Pot lets you cut off turns on some chapters, not just add some reliability to an unpotted run.

i'm pretty sure you can just RNG abuse.

[Redwall]

You recruit Cord in Chapter 2, not Bord! Otherwise, I am enjoying this write-up!

Thanks, fixed. I also edited my C2 write-up to note that Catria took a Steel Lance from Arran on turn 1.

Updated the OP up to Chapter 4.

[spoiler=Chapter 3 (17/70)]I'm using Linde since I want to see what all the fuss in the tier list is about. I missed out on about 42 EXP (three shots of chip damage) due to me not giving Linde her Seraph Robe at the beginning of the level; initially I had been saving the money for a Speedwing in the event Marth would gain enough Spd by C4 to double Hunters after downing a Speedwing, but I later realized that this wasn't necessary for a seven-turn clear of C4. The general skeleton of the clear was more or less taken from what I remember of CM's thread.

I deployed Heath (Cavalier), Luke (Archer, NOT Hunter because I prefer the Archer's growth spread), Ryan (Archer), Gordin (Hunter), Mallesia (Cleric), Arran (Dracoknight), Linde (Mage), and Catria (Pegasus Knight).

Turn 1: Arran, Heath, and Marth moved left. Luke distracted the Ballista to protect Marth. Palla flew up to a fort out of DK range. Everyone else just got out of the way of the DKs and stayed near the starting position.

Turn 2: Arran flew in range of one DK, which would draw three down during the enemy phase. Marth continued moving left and down. Heath moved left. Catria and Luke each face-tanked a Dracoknight from one of the rightward groups.

Turn 3: Catria, Luke, and Linde each got a DK kill. Arran flew left, staying in range of only one DK. Marth and Heath kept moving. During the EP, two of the three Dracoknights drawn in by Arran flew towards the starting position. Palla OHKOed the Thief.

Turn 4: Marth kept moving towards the village. Heath finished the DK that followed Arran. Palla occupied the leftmost fort and used a Vulnerary, equipping a Silver Lance to OHKO a Cavalier during the EP. Everyone else braced for the two incoming Dracoknights drawn in by Arran.

Turn 5: Marth recruited Bord. The units near the starting position cleaned up the two Dracoknights. Palla flew left and healed again. I don't remember what exactly I did with Heath and Arran this turn; I may have drawn in the Master Seal Dracoknight either this turn or the next.

Turns 6-12: Marth KOed the Master Seal Dracoknight and moved at full speed; Palla and Heath cleaned up the Cavs chasing her; Catria, Luke, and Linde took care of the remaining Dracoknights; Catria was subsequently healed and flew across the sea to pass her Vulnerary to units who needed it; Mallesia spammed heals, with characters being put in range of the Ballista if necessary.

Turns 13-17: Marth recruited Julian; Julian recruited Matthis; Catria (Javelin) and Arran teamed up to draw in the Cavs; Heath finished most of the Cavs; blah blah blah.

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class      Boosters
                Marth     8.91 27 09  00  11  12  10  08  00  D Swd           Lord 
                Heath    13.21 38 14  04  17  16  07  16  00  B Lnc E Swd       Cavalier     Seraph Robe
                Ryan      5.59 21 09  00  08  06  05  08  00  D Bow             Archer 
                Luke      9.93 26 12  00  11  08  06  08  00  E Bow             Archer
                Arran     3.86 base
                Gordin    6.01 26 12  00  11  08  06  08  00  E Bow             Hunter
                Mallesia  5.79 19 00  04  02  06  13  03  07  C Stf           Cleric
                Catria    9.23 25 10  02  11  17  11  10  06  C Lnc           Pegasus Knight
                Linde     6.07 22 00  05  06  10  10  02  04  D Tme             Mage
                Palla    11.33 25 10  02  12  16  09  10  06  B Lnc           Pegasus Knight

No expenses were made here. (2540 G remaining)

[spoiler=Chapter 3x (6/76)]I deployed Heath (Cavalier), Catria (Cavalier), Mallesia (Cleric), Palla (Pegasus Knight), and Linde (Mage).

Turn 1: With the Starsphere shard, Catria used a Javelin on the bottom Knight. Heath traded the Steel Lance to the top of Catria's inventory and attacked the top Knight. Having taken a Seraph Robe from the shop, Linde finished off the Knight from 2-range. Palla moved down and prepared for a hit from the middle Knight. During the enemy phase, Linde chipped an Archer, and Catria finished the bottom Knight with her Steel Lance (she got very lucky with her +Str level-ups). Marth...moved. Wrys ran away towards the right.

Turn 2: Palla headed right and was healed, though I don't remember if it was with a Vulnerary or with Mallesia. Catria and Heath finished the Archers, while Linde finished the Knight. Marth and Wrys moved.

Turn 3: Palla ORKOed the Archer and would chip the Knight during the enemy phase. Mallesia healed someone, and everyone else moved right.

Turn 4: Palla went to the fort and finished the Knight with a Javelin. Wrys healed Palla. Someone (Linde?) blocked the other fort. More healing and moving took place.

Turn 5: Palla flew in range of the rightmost Knight, and Marth moved in range of the other Knight. More healing and moving.

Turn 6: The Knights were KOed by Catria and Heath, I think. Marth Seized, and Mallesia healed someone (probably Linde)

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class      Boosters
                Marth     9.00 28 09  00  11  13  11  09  00  D Swd           Lord 
                Heath    13.64 38 14  04  17  16  07  16  00  B Lnc E Swd       Cavalier     Seraph Robe
                Mallesia  6.61 19 00  05  02  06  13  03  07  B Stf           Cleric
                Catria    9.83 25 10  02  11  17  11  10  06  C Lnc           Pegasus Knight
                Linde     6.71 22 00  05  06  10  10  02  04  D Tme             Mage         Seraph Robe
                Palla    11.95 25 10  02  12  16  09  10  06  B Lnc           Pegasus Knight

Expenses: Bought a Seraph Robe for Linde (40 G remaining)

[spoiler=Chapter 4 (7/83)]More or less the standard strategy was employed, though I doubt I would have managed a seven-turn clear (at least in H4) without my Avatar being above average in Spd and Def. I deployed Heath (Cavalier), Luke (Cavalier), Arran (Dracoknight), Mallesia (Cleric), Catria (Pegasus Knight), Linde (Mage), Palla (Pegasus Knight), Ryan (Hunter), and Gordin (Hunter).

Turn 1: Gordin chipped the Thief for Luke to finish. Ryan chipped a Barbarian for Linde to finish. Palla and Catria ORKOed a Barbarian and a Hunter, respectively. Heath ORKOed a Barbarian and was in range of another for the enemy phase. On the other side of the map, Ogma headed left, in range of a Barbarian. Yumina used Rescue on Marth, who traded her a Mend and an Iron Sword (the former was important, the latter was not) before recruiting Castor. Castor took an Iron Bow. Arran flew up. I don't recall if the Barbarian died during the enemy phase or if instead Heath missed an attack.

Turn 2: Again, I don't remember what happened during the enemy phase, but the Barbarian was dead by the end of this player phase, either from a PP attack by Linde or a clean EP KO. Heath and Catria teamed up on the Devil Sword Thief with their Javelins, and the Devil Sword was then sent to the convoy. The forts were blocked by Ryan, Arran, and either Palla or Linde; probably Palla since I think Linde needed to attack the Barbarian during the PP. Yubello and Castor teamed up on the Barbarian drawn in by Ogma. Yumina healed Ogma, who teamed up with Marth against the Thief.

Turn 3 PP: Heath moved as far northeast as possible and healed, putting him in position to ORKO two Barbarians (one of which was a reinforcement) during the enemy phase. Catria followed him but stayed out of enemy range. Palla moved northeast and healed. Linde moved northeast. Arran also moved northeast and used the save point. By this time, Gordin was in position to block the lower-left fort, while Luke moved towards the northeast. Ryan and Mallesia blocked the other two forts. The northern guys pulled back slightly in an attempt to manipulate the AI.

Turn 3 EP: One Hunter moved towards Marth's group, while the other moved in range of Catria. The two Barbarians died to Heath, and I think two others approached.

Turn 4: Catria ORKOed the Hunter from a safe square (I don't think she was in range of more than one Barbarian, if any). With her low Def, Linde baited one Barbarian and dealt a strong counterattack. The other Barbarian died to Palla during the enemy phase. Heath plugged the fort and used a Vulnerary. Ogma and Marth teamed up on the other Hunter. Luke continued moving up.

Turn 5: Marth kept moving towards the throne. Ogma recruited Sirius, who then took the Devil Sword out of the convoy. With their Javelins equipped, Heath and Catria baited a Hunter and a Hand Axe Barbarian, respectively. Linde finished the Barbarian she previously chipped, while Luke kept moving towards the throne.

Turn 6: Linde headed back towards the starting position to get healed by Mallesia. Luke finished the Hand Axe Barbarian. Ogma teamed up with Castor and someone else (Palla?) to finish the Silver Axe Barbarian.

Turn 7: Used the save point. Arran, Palla, and Catria hurled Javelins at the boss with low accuracy (the more hits, the better, but only one hit needed to connect). Sirius attacked with the Devil Sword. Heath finished with...something (if only one Javelin connected, a Silver Lance hit would have been needed, but I think more hits occurred on this attempt). Mallesia healed Linde, and Marth seized.

                       Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp                Class      Boosters
                Marth     9.54 28 09  00  11  13  11  09  00  D Swd           Lord 
                Heath    14.78 38 14  05  18  16  07  17  00  B Lnc E Swd       Cavalier     Seraph Robe
                Luke     10.20 29 13  00  11  11  06  09  00  D Swd E Lnc       Cavalier
                Arran     forgot to record his stats
                Mallesia  7.30 19 00  05  03  06  13  03  08  B Stf           Cleric
                Catria   10.71 26 10  02  13  16  09  11  06  C Lnc           Pegasus Knight
                Linde     7.57 30 00  05  07  10  11  02  04  D Tme             Mage         Seraph Robe
                Palla    12.58 26 10  02  13  16  09  11  06  B Lnc           Pegasus Knight
                Ogma      7.36 base
                Sirius    1.09 base

Sold the Bullion from Chapter 4 (5040 G remaining).

[PKL]

Dat money. Great job so far. Let's see how Linde does. I guess her Aura chip would be more usefull in H4 than in normal Lunatic. Though I still think a Robe on her is waste.

[fatgamecat]

i'm pretty sure you can just RNG abuse.

Someone call the Nintendo cops, he's "abusing" the RNG and playing the game wrong. From now on, I'm going to call all rainbow potion use "Pot Abuse".

No, getting MU +2 or so speed in the prologue isn't the same as Pot Abusing and giving several of your party +2 to all of their stats with enough uses to last the entire game.

[dondon151]

Someone call the Nintendo cops, he's "abusing" the RNG and playing the game wrong. From now on, I'm going to call all rainbow potion use "Pot Abuse".

No, getting MU +2 or so speed in the prologue isn't the same as Pot Abusing and giving several of your party +2 to all of their stats with enough uses to last the entire game.

no need to be hostile, dude, it's called RNG abuse regardless of the connotations of the word "abuse."

[fatgamecat]

The word "abuse" is taken as a hostile, negative word.

And I'm sure nobody will mind "Pot Abuse", as I'll now be calling it. lol

[bottlegnomes]

RNG abuse is heretofore know as "RNG massaging with a happy ending."

Good luck, man. Interesting read so far.

[Redwall]

Updated through Chapter 7.

[spoiler=Chapter 5 (10/93)]Looking at one of dondon's topics, I now realize I could probably have gotten a nine-turn clear if I had planted Mallesia on a fort on turn 8, shielded her from the RHS Knight using Catria and Palla, and KOed the rightmost Ballista that same turn with Heath. I suspect it would still have been possible to do Chapter 6 in six turns by using the Door Key from that map instead of having to wait until turn 10 of C5 to buy a Door Key. Ugh.

Before doing the stage, I reclassed Heath to a Pirate and fought once in the Drill Grounds to level up, gaining Spd, HP, and one or two other stats; subsequently, he promoted at Lv. 15.

The mean speed of an Honorable Avatar who gains eight levels as a Knight, three levels as a Pirate, and three levels as a Cav is only 15.65 once he is reclassed to a Dracoknight; for this reason, doubling the enemy Dracoknights in this level isn't that reliable for him, with or without the Rainbow Potion, though a Noble's Child Avatar continues to have the best chance of doing so. Because my Avatar was Spd-blessed enough to double, the clear wound up being faster than I was expecting.

I deployed Marth, Heath (Draco), Luke (Hunter), Ryan (Hunter), Catria (Pegasus Knight), Palla (Pegasus), Linde (Mage), Sirius (Draco), Caeda (Cavalier), Mallesia (Cleric), and Ogma (Mercenary).

Turn 1: Everybody moved up, with Palla and Heath each in range of one Mage to KO during the enemy phase. Ogma recruited Barst. In retrospect, it would have been preferable to buy an Energy Drop for Catria to guarantee a ORKOed Mage, as my Str-cursed Palla would not have ORKOed if neither the left nor the right Mage spawned with 2 Def. I wound up buying a Drop for Catria to tackle Chapter 6, anyway.

Turn 2: Sirius used his Steel Lance to weaken a Cavalier for Palla to finish with her Javelin. Catria used an Iron Lance to KO the remaining Mage. Ryan and Linde teamed up on a Thief. Mallesia healed Heath, who ORKOed another Cav during the player phase. Caeda moved in position to KO the last of the initial group of Cavs during the enemy phase.

Turn 3: Heath moved in range of a Sniper and OHKOed the Master Seal Thief with a Silver Lance. Everyone else stayed just out of range of the Snipers and healed. Marth continued moving towards the Hammerne village. During the EP, Heath facetanked a Silver Bow hit, while the other Snipers moved south towards the other units.

Turn 4: Heath weakened the Sniper who hit him for Marth to KO. Everyone else dogpiled the other group of Snipers. Jeorge was bodied up. Barst managed to survive his Parthia with a single point of health.

Turn 5: Caeda moved up and chipped the Bishop with a Javelin. Heath moved in range of two Dracoknights, one of whom would attack Sirius during the enemy phase, and the other of whom would get ORKOed by Heath during the EP. Luke moved up slightly. Jeorge was still trapped; Linde chipped him with Fire for some EXP. Marth moved closer to the village while staying out of range of the DKs.

Turn 6: Caeda finished the Bishop. Luke KOed the Dracoknight weakened by Sirius. Heath ORKOed another Dracoknight. The remaining Dracoknight was in position to be KOed by the combined attacks of Palla, Catria, and Sirius, though I don't recall Sirius needing to attack. Linde chipped Jeorge. Mallesia moved south. Marth continued moving.

Turn 7: Catria and Palla headed west and healed. Sirius and Heath moved closer to the Ballistae and healed. Mallesia continued heading south. Caeda headed back down towards Jeorge, who was chipped by Linde again.

Turn 8: Marth got the Hammerne. Linde traded an Iron Sword to Caeda, who switched places with Linde and chipped Jeorge. Catria equipped a Javelin and moved in range of two Cavaliers towards the west. Heath moved right between the Ballistae and healed. During the enemy phase, all but one of the Knights died to Heath's EP counters; meanwhile, the western group of enemies approached Palla and Catria.

Turn 9: Mallesia Rescued Marth, who moved towards the throne. Heath and Sirius KOed the boss and the other Ballistician, respectively. Catria and Palla pulled back and healed; after the enemy phase, the only remaining enemy from the western group was the Sniper.

Turn 10: Sirius bought five Door Keys. For whatever reason, the Sniper initially chasing Palla and Catria headed south for Heath to KO. Marth Seized.

         Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp              Class           Boosters
Marth    10.07 29 09  00  12  14  12  09  01  D Swd             Lord 
Heath     3.39 42 19  06  23  20  08  22  03  A Lnc E Axe       Dracoknight     Seraph Robe
Luke     10.89 29 13  00  11  11  06  09  00  D Swd E Lnc       Cavalier
Mallesia  8.53 20 00  06  03  06  13  03  08  B Stf             Cleric
Catria   11.28 27 10  02  13  19  13  11  08  C Lnc             Pegasus Knight
Linde     9.11 30 00  07  09  12  13  02  04  D Tme             Mage            Seraph Robe
Palla    13.71 27 10  02  14  17  09  11  06  B Lnc             Pegasus Knight
Sirius    1.70 base
Caeda     9.95 23 09  00  09  18  17  11  01  D Lnc E Swd       Cavalier
Barst     b.se base

Expenses: Bought five Door Keys and fought one battle in the Drill Grounds. (2860 G remaining)

[spoiler=Chapter 6 (6/99)]The general idea behind the clear is taken from dondon: Rescue Marth with a six-move unit. Before doing the chapter, I bought an Energy Drop for Catria to let her 2RKO the Swarm Bishop even after the other Bishop used Physic on him.

I deployed Marth, Heath (Dracoknight), Luke (Hunter), Mallesia (Cleric), Catria (Pegasus Knight), Palla (Pegasus Knight), Linde (Mage), Caeda (Cavalier), Sirius (Dracoknight), and Arran (Bishop). In retrospect, I could have squeezed out a bit more EXP for Palla and Sirius had I reclassed Sirius to a Paladin (Armorslayer); additionally, reliability could have been improved slightly by reclassing Heath to Horseman since Javelins are so inaccurate.

Turn 1: Heath moved in range of one of the upper Knights towards the left. Caeda moved in range towards one of the lower Knights. Catria headed right, equipped a Javelin, and used a Pure Water. Marth headed towards the chest while staying out of range of the Mages. Julian headed towards Rickard. Everyone else headed left.

Turn 2: The guys on the left cleaned up; Sirius needed a Starsphere Shard to OHKO a Mage with the Silver Lance. Marth finished a Mage, while Catria flew in range of the Swarm Bishop and healed (the other Mage died during the enemy phase; if this didn't happen, it would only mean that Catria would KO the Bishops slightly later in the six-turn clear, and that Mallesia would need to use Physic on Catria). Julian opened the door.

Turn 3: Sirius opened the door to Samto's chamber, and Caeda attacked the Sniper from 1-range with a Javelin. Julian recruited Rickard and took the Bullion (L). Catria attacked the Swarm Bishop. I don't recall if Marth needed to heal this turn (the Mage he finished last turn may have missed) or if he just got the chest, though I suspect it was the latter; I had some successful attempts in which Marth used a Vulnerary this turn. Either way, it would have simply delayed the unlocking by a turn, possibly requiring yet another Physic use to allow Catria to nail both Bishops in time, while still permitting a six-turn clear. Palla moved up and healed. During the EP, the Physic guy healed the Swarm Bishop before the latter KOed himself from Catria's counter.

Turn 4: Caeda recruited Samto. Sirius and Heath teamed up on the Sniper, with Sirius getting the KO and leveling up. Luke, Linde, Norne and Frey hung around the left to take some of the reinforcements. Catria got in range of the Physic Bishop and healed. Mallesia may have also healed her this turn with Physic; I don't recall.

Turn 5: Palla and Sirius prepared to gang up on a Knight guarding Lang, while Caeda and Heath also got in position to KO Lang on the subsequent turn. Frey and Norne kept chipping the reinforcements. Catria finished the Bishop this turn, though I forget if it was during the PP or the EP.

Turn 6: Palla and Sirius took out the Knight, Heath chipped Lang with a Javelin, and Caeda finished with Wing Spear; if one or more Javelins missed, a crit from either Heath or Caeda would have been needed (on this attempt, I think one Javelin missed). Arran Rescued Marth. Linde and Luke each got a kill.

         Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp              Class              Boosters
Marth    10.37 29 09  00  12  14  12  09  01  D Swd             Lord 
Heath     3.87 42 19  06  23  20  08  22  03  A Lnc E Axe       Dracoknight        Seraph Robe
Luke     11.18 30 15  00  13  11  06  05  00  D Bow             Hunter  
Mallesia  9.43 20 00  06  04  06  13  03  08  B Stf             Cleric
Catria   12.92 28 12  02  14  19  14  11  08  B Lnc             Pegasus Knight     Energy Drop
Linde     9.57 30 00  07  09  12  13  02  04  D Tme             Mage               Seraph Robe
Palla    14.06 28 11  02  15  17  09  11  06  B Lnc             Pegasus Knight
Sirius    2.34 27 13  01  14  14  04  14  03  A Lnc E Axe       Dracoknight
Caeda    11.36 24 10  00  11  20  19  11  01  D Lnc E Swd       Cavalier

I think I made a mistake in recording Sirius' stats, but this is what my notes say for this chapter. My C7 stats have Sirius at 26 HP as a DK, which is weird. I made prior several attempts at this level to determine how to milk EXP more smartly, so I probably got confused.

Expenses: Bought one Energy Drop for Catria. (360 G remaining)

[spoiler=Chapter 6x (1/100)]Heath (Berserker) crossed the stream and doubled Roro, who was KOed by Palla. Linde was reclassed to Cleric to use Rescue for some EXP; this was a mistake, as apparently the Cleric's Mag growth is way lower than the Mage's Mag growth. Caeda, Luke (reclassed to Myrmidon with the Devil Sword and the +Luck shard), and Catria each got kills of their own.

         Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp              Class              Boosters
Marth    10.37 29 09  00  12  14  12  09  01  D Swd             Lord 
Heath     3.97 42 19  06  23  20  08  22  03  A Lnc E Axe       Dracoknight        Seraph Robe
Luke     11.35 30 15  00  13  11  06  05  00  D Bow             Hunter  
Catria   13.07 30 14  00  12  18  14  14  02  B Lnc E Swd       Cavalier           Energy Drop
Linde    10.05 30 00  05  10  13  14  01  10  E Stf             Cleric             Seraph Robe
Palla    14.63 28 11  02  15  17  09  11  06  B Lnc             Pegasus Knight
Caeda    11.53 24 10  00  11  20  19  11  01  D Lnc E Swd       Cavalier

Expenses: Sold the C6 Bullion (L). (10360 G remaining)

[spoiler=Chapter 7 (5/105)]I gave Marth the Secret Book at the beginning of the chapter. Probably would have sold it if not for Medeus.

I deployed Marth, Heath (DK), Luke (Hunter), Mallesia (Cleric), Catria (Cav), Linde (Mage), Palla (PK), Sirius (DK), Caeda (Cav), and Arran (DK).

Turn 1: Heath used a Javelin to chip the nearest Thief, who would die during the enemy phase to a counter from Palla. Caeda prepared to counter the Fire Dragon. Navarre attacked the Iron Sword Thief and received a Dance from Feena. Mallesia was given both +Mag shards to just barely reach 8 Mag, enough to heal Navarre enough to survive a second attack from the Thief he would finish with Feena's assistance; a Lv. 9 Mallesia with 40% Mag growth has only a 41% chance (=BINOMDIST(4,8,0.6,1) in Excel) of gaining the required four points of Mag to heal for enough damage with the shards, so ordinarily a Spirit Dust would have been needed.

Turn 2: Catria and Linde teamed up to finish the Fire Dragon. With +Def shards, Linde just barely escaped getting OHKOed. Heath chipped a Thief with a Javelin and received a Dance from Feena. Heath flew north and ORKOed the Hunter near the northern save point with a Javelin. Sirius finished the Thief chipped by Heath. Navarre and Arran teamed up on the southern Hunter. Marth continued moving towards the throne. Palla chipped a Thief. During the enemy phase, a Thief and a Hunter both took counterattacks from Heath, with the Hunter getting ORKOed. Although my Avatar is a bit durability-blessed, I suspect someone using the Rainbow Potion with an average Avatar or promoted Palla should be able to similarly survive the Hunter comfortably.

Turn 3: Arran used the save point near the boss. Marth moved north, received a Dance from Feena, and subsequently KOed the Thief weakened by Palla. Palla moved north and finished a Thief who took a counter from Heath during the previous enemy phase. Sirius chipped a Thief. Heath moved left while staying out of range of Astram's team and healed with a Vulnerary. The guys towards the cave healed and made their way towards the Physic. During the enemy phase, a reinforcement Mage died to Heath's Javelin.

Turn 4: Marth moved north slightly and healed with a Vulnerary. Feena Danced for Marth, who was able to finish the Thief previously weakened by Sirius because of his Vulnerary. Palla moved adjacent to the boss and used a Pure Water with her Silver Lance equipped. Heath moved to KO the Seraph Robe Thief (I think it was this item...it was the Thief who was just about to leave the map), putting himself in range of two Heroes. Mallesia used Physic on Heath. The other units near the cave prepared for an enemy phase attack from the reinforcement Cavaliers, who would die during this enemy phase to Caeda (Wing Spear) and Catria. I think Arran and Sirius teamed up on another Thief, with Arran taking the kill since Sirius couldn't stand to take another hit if he was to finish the boss without needing healing. During the EP, Palla dealt a decent counter to the boss.

Turn 5: Navarre used the other save point. Mallesia used Physic on Palla and got the cave's Physic. Palla attacked the boss again. Sirius finished the boss. Heath OHKOed the remaining Thief. I don't recall if Arran needed to do anything this turn, but all the Thieves were dead by the end of this turn (one of the two Master Seal Thieves escaped early on). The cave guys teamed up on a Knight. Marth Seized.

         Lvl   HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp              Class              Boosters
Marth    11.23 30 09  00  15  15  13  09  01  D Swd             Lord               Secret Book
Heath     5.01 42 21  06  24  21  09  22  03  A Lnc E Axe       Dracoknight        Seraph Robe
Luke     11.35 30 15  00  13  11  06  05  00  D Bow             Hunter  
Mallesia 11.20 21 00  07  04  07  14  03  08  B Stf             Cleric
Catria   13.41 30 14  00  12  18  14  14  02  B Lnc E Swd       Cavalier           Energy Drop
Linde    10.86 30 00  05  10  13  14  01  10  E Stf             Cleric             Seraph Robe
Palla    15.46 29 12  02  16  18  10  11  06  B Lnc             Pegasus Knight
Sirius    3.34 26 14  01  15  14  05  14  03  A Lnc E Axe       Dracoknight
Caeda    11.94 24 10  00  11  20  19  11  01  C Lnc E Swd       Cavalier
Feena     1.85
Arran     4.70

[shadykid]

Someone call the Nintendo cops, he's "abusing" the RNG and playing the game wrong. From now on, I'm going to call all rainbow potion use "Pot Abuse".

No, getting MU +2 or so speed in the prologue isn't the same as Pot Abusing and giving several of your party +2 to all of their stats with enough uses to last the entire game.

what is this, an evo smash bros thread?

anyway I see you changed your name back, nice run so far Redwall

[eclipse]

Chapter 6 Sniper? Since when did Chapter 6 have a--*does some research*

OKAY.

Thanks for explaining everything! I'm still impressed at the turn counts, even if you think you could've done it lower!

[Redwall]

Thanks for the feedback, but I doubt my turn-counts would be as low as they are were it not for the fact that a) I'm already familiar with some LTC strategies that others have developed for this game and b) my characters have been somewhat lucky with their growths. The latter makes me wish this game had a fixed-growths mode.

[eclipse]

Thanks for the feedback, but I doubt my turn-counts would be as low as they are were it not for the fact that a) I'm already familiar with some LTC strategies that others have developed for this game and b) my characters have been somewhat lucky with their growths. The latter makes me wish this game had a fixed-growths mode.

You've mentioned a few places with averages (mostly in regards to MU); do you think there's any other places that would be specifically harder if your characters were on-par with averages/below average?