Shin Megami Tensei IV

[Samias]

The big tip for alignment is that Chaos options are usually things related to strength, the power of self, and the new. So if you have an option where you put someone out of their misery or to deviate away from the usual way of life in Mikado, it's usually a Chaos option. Law options are all about preservation and unwillingness to change. However, I wouldn't worry so much about those alignment questions because you'll have a very obvious decision point that alters the way you play through the rest of the game.

As for DLC, of course removing the SD card will mess up your DLC until the SD card goes back in. DLC is not stored on the game cart and requires pointers from the SD card to function, otherwise it's going to do weird things. I guess in this case it gives you bad armor.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Samias

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Also so many of those comments are "It's not Persona! Where are the social links?!" which makes me sad. This game is better compared to Strange Journey (where I think it is better) and Nocturne (where it isn't quite as good).

The demon laughed at me, called me stupid, and bit me in the face killing me.

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Oh my god can I please snap my 3ds in half? Who are these damn demons who are taking half my macca and how to I tell them to f*** off and get a job?

I ahve a ton of luck and even if they use it it should not be successful. I'm so pissed

Edited July 23, 2013 by Agile Tit-Tyrant

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

As for DLC, of course removing the SD card will mess up your DLC until the SD card goes back in. DLC is not stored on the game cart and requires pointers from the SD card to function, otherwise it's going to do weird things. I guess in this case it gives you bad armor.

I turned off the 3ds, took SD card out, put it back in, then turned it on. So it shouldnt have messed up

Also, do stats cap at 200?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Agile Tit-Tyrant

[Balcerzak]

Also so many of those comments are "It's not Persona! Where are the social links?!" which makes me sad. This game is better compared to Strange Journey (where I think it is better) and Nocturne (where it isn't quite as good).

Oddly enough, at first blush I would say this game is better than Nocturne, but less good than Strange Journey. That is because it is much more directly comparable to Nocture (3rd person dungeon crawl, 8 possible skills, press turn system, etc.), whereas Strange Journey was more firmly rooted in 1st person dungeon crawl, and had a much superiour NG+/achievement system. Nocturne loses to SMTIV in the areas of # of demons, fleshed out characters and story, no gameover upon MC death, etc. SMTIV loses to Strange Journey on dungeon design, reduced focus on the differences between law/neutral/chaos demons in your party, ability to recruit dark demons straight up (you don't even need an app for that), and my personal preferences for 1st person dungeoneering.

Needless to day, when I saw the black Demonica early on in this game, I just about wet myself. The same thing happened when I met Stephen. And Yuriko. And [insert every other SMT throwback].

I've never played any Persona yet, but agree comparisons there would just be silly.

Oh my god can I please snap my 3ds in half? Who are these damn demons who are taking half my macca and how to I tell them to f*** off and get a job?

I ahve a ton of luck and even if they use it it should not be successful. I'm so pissed

Nekomata in Ginza have a Macca beam ability, I would assume it may be them, but your level sounded like you were way beyond there? Edited July 23, 2013 by Balcerzak

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Nekomata in Ginza have a Macca beam ability, I would assume it may be them, but your level sounded like you were way beyond there?

I'm in the desert, noticed all my coins gone so I went back to my last save which is about 2 hours ago, so i wasted 2 hours now. And I'm in the place you Meet Tam and are about the open the desert.

When I saw Demonica I pretty well did the same cause I was all like "OMG DEMONICA SJ BEST GAME" (also you can get the normal Demonica armor but you may already know that?) and yeah, I prefer first person dungeon crawling much more, maybe because its generally more unique? I mean 3rd person walking around is everywhere already. Stephen was pretty cool too, I played SMT2 but I didn't finish it.

The desert sucks though... I wasnt really sure where I was supposed to go anyway. So... How far into the game am I? Im pretty eager to finish it and move on to NG

I'm high level because of some cheating + done a fair amount of side quests for all the extra xp I can get

Edited July 23, 2013 by Agile Tit-Tyrant

[Shengar]

So I hear critical and consumer opinions may not be perfectly aligned on this one

This picture is supposed to be sarcasm. But yeah, many people have not meet their expectation when playing mainline SMT for the first time, not just SMT IV. Somehow SMT IV got all the heat despite Soul Hackers released earlier, maybe because it is newer installation to the series. It kinda sadden me really. because both series are really different in many aspect and the thing they share between each other is just the demon. Expecting something that shouldn't be there a called it a flaw is somekind of stupid.

Though SMT IV have more waifu material than any mainline SMT game should.

I bet Atlus did this on purpose. Didn't deter my judgement of the game though.

[Balcerzak]

I'm in the desert, noticed all my coins gone so I went back to my last save which is about 2 hours ago, so i wasted 2 hours now. And I'm in the place you Meet Tam and are about the open the desert.

When I saw Demonica I pretty well did the same cause I was all like "OMG DEMONICA SJ BEST GAME" (also you can get the normal Demonica armor but you may already know that?) and yeah, I prefer first person dungeon crawling much more, maybe because its generally more unique? I mean 3rd person walking around is everywhere already. Stephen was pretty cool too, I played SMT2 but I didn't finish it.

The desert sucks though... I wasnt really sure where I was supposed to go anyway. So... How far into the game am I? Im pretty eager to finish it and move on to NG

I'm high level because of some cheating + done a fair amount of side quests for all the extra xp I can get

Meet Tam? Desert?

Are you talking about

Blasted Tokyo where you have to have a showdown against Pluto? If so, you need to go NW first to find Blasted Shinjuku and meet some crazy guy with cross tattoos and Akira.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Balcerzak

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Meet Tam? Desert?

Are you talking about

Blasted Tokyo where you have to have a showdown against Pluto? If so, you need to go NW first to find Blasted Shinjuku and meet some crazy guy with cross tattoos and Akira.

What. Guess I gotta bring out dem spoiler tags

I'm in Camp Ichigaya with Walter right now about to confront Tamaya and fight his demon and open the gate to the desert letting all the demons into Tokyo. Also it seems to me that I'm pretty well locked into Chaos now

Though SMT IV have more waifu material than any mainline SMT game should.

All SMTs have a ton of waifu material

these demon girls man

Edited July 23, 2013 by Agile Tit-Tyrant

[Balcerzak]

Ohhh, you sided with Walter while I sided with Jonathon. I get it.

You still have several hours left, if I correctly understand your situation. I don't remember any Macca beam demons around that area, but maybe I wasn't paying close attention. I spent like, 175k in Ginza on the sidequests, so was scraping by with a mere 10-20k Macca and might not have noticed.

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Ohhh, you sided with Walter while I sided with Jonathon. I get it.

Oh, and you ended up Law, right?

[Happy_Dingo]

Having played Nocturne I'm able to laugh when people say this game is too hard. Though a big portion of Nocturne's difficulty is not being able to save anywhere (which is probably the best time saving, tedium reducing feature in IV).

I'm totally at a loss as to what choice to make right now. I'm at the part where

Gaby reveals she's Gabriel and I have to choose to support Walter or Jonathan.

Both sides have their pros and cons, but there's just no perfect choice. Even if I'm right, I'm still wrong =/. If anyone would like to sway me one way or the other feel free to try. I'm having the darndest time making up my mind (though at the moment I'm swaying towards Jonny).

Also to the OP, you should make a poll asking who we are siding with. I'm interested to know what path you guys took. There's 4 endings I've heard. Order, neutral, chaos, and some other option that I've no idea what it is. It goes without saying, but please don't spoil anything.

EDIT: BTW that white Samurai armor is so freaking useful. Used that shit for, like, ever

Edited July 24, 2013 by Happy_Dingo

[Samias]

I know there are four endings but I don't know what the 4th one entails. I guess it might be something akin to Nocturne's True Demon ending or something but I dunno...

[spoiler=Point of no return]

I sided with Walter, since it had a side of humanism whereas Law felt... awkward. Even though given the history of the series Yuriko can't be trusted, the Ashura-kai didn't make me want to side with law at all. I overall am pretty sad that ultimately the group disbanded and likely I'll never get to see Jonathan on good terms again. We'll see where it takes me, since I've been juggling the game alongside Animal Crossing and have slowed down my progress a little.

[Balcerzak]

[spoiler=endings]I am pretty sure I got the 4th ending, to be perfectly honest.

[spoiler='Serious motherfucking spoilers][spoiler=Point of no return specula: do not read unless you have already activated Yamato]Also, unless I'm mistaken, the game is kind of a troll about what the point of no return is. The first time you're forced to decide whether to meet up with Walter at the barracks, or with Jonathon at the entrance to Naraku was NOT (for me) the vital decision point. (Interesting note: Meeting up with Isabeau at the Monolith did nothing for me, aside from a few minor lines of dialogue.) During all of Blasted Tokyo and Infernal Tokyo segments I was once again in a team with Walter AND Jonathon (Isabeau was still missing, though). Then, when about to activate Yamato for the third time, this is where I believe the TRUE points of no return are. There is the option of

Early End (Black Hole For the White People)

Not Early End

Then if doing the Not Early End, I saw one more choice about

Build a New World

Preserve Status Quo

which should be self-explanatory. No idea where Neutral fits into the picture, to be perfectly honest, and I had been attempting to gun for Neutral as best I could all along the way. Maybe it branches from something with Isabeau back in the "troll point of no return" that I didn't have the proper flags triggered for? For all I know, you might need to be on a second cycle game to activate it. But, ultimately, like I said, I copped out and took Early End.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Balcerzak

[Crimson Red]

Alright, so I bought this game day one and I just feel like weighing in a little.

As a fair warning, my opinions of this game are generally negative so far, and this is the first SMT game I've really tried to play. A lot of why I bought it has to do very little with SMT--for instance, "I like the 3DS a lot", "there's a promotion (presumably for SMT x FE) that can help me save $30 on the game", and "if I buy the game day-1 I'm getting some extra stuff that I'd rather not miss out on". I went in with little expectations except that I heard it was a more... Japanese-inclined RPG, to say the least (i.e. has more Japanese culture etc. than some).

Anyway, I don't want to bore anyone to death so tl;dr off the bat, I don't like it because:

- moving around the town is menu-based and ugly

- I don't like the 1st-person view

- the portraits in dialog don't change much

- the demon system seems too complex

- have to die twice to get easy mode which is still hard, makes me very inclined to break the game with the DLC and sort of forsake the intended difficulty because this isn't the sort of challenge I enjoy (it feels more like harassment from the developers than a challenge XD)

- I am NOT a fan of "your decisions have a huge impact on the game" aspect. I've heard this is one of the niches or something of the series, possibly Persona too, but like I said this is my 1st game. It works in some games but I don't like when the story is so variable I don't feel like progressing because there is no proper, true, best, whatever ending. I'm more of a "you guide me and I might fill in the wholes or have slight alterations in the story but there should be some sort of canon and some sort of general follow through" if that makes sense. Maybe I'm judging this a little too harshly but right now it seems like the fate of major characters, alliances, etc. are decided on decisions and I'm honestly putting the game down because I don't want to **** something up somewhere. It's not really a flaw with the game, it's just a compatibility issue IMO, I'd say my personality is just not compatible with the game.

On the bright side? the 3D is awesome at times, the story and gameplay both have some nice depth, the voice acting is solid, and I do like RPG's in general, but I've had nothing to gawk at yet.

Now I feel a little better and might be able to pick this game up again in a week or so, hopefully no one hates me for sort of venting here, I'm not far enough into the game to hate anything quite yet lol, I just have some really bad first impressions (graphics and voice acting aside).

[Shengar]

All SMTs have a ton of waifu material

these demon girls man

Only SMTbro would dig dem demon girls though

Having played Nocturne I'm able to laugh when people say this game is too hard. Though a big portion of Nocturne's difficulty is not being able to save anywhere (which is probably the best time saving, tedium reducing feature in IV).

Perhaps "hard" is not the right word. More "forgiving" I say is a fitting word to describe it. If you save a lot and then screw up in some point, then you wouldn't even have to use Charon for the rest of the game. But not so much if you decide against saving everywhere or just plain lazy then get wiped by a random encounter.

[Balcerzak]

All SMTs have a ton of waifu material

these demon girls man

Only SMTbro would dig dem demon girls though

"He waifus demons? Failure as a human!"

Hello my fellow failures.

[Soledai]

Alright, so I bought this game day one and I just feel like weighing in a little.

As a fair warning, my opinions of this game are generally negative so far, and this is the first SMT game I've really tried to play. A lot of why I bought it has to do very little with SMT--for instance, "I like the 3DS a lot", "there's a promotion (presumably for SMT x FE) that can help me save $30 on the game", and "if I buy the game day-1 I'm getting some extra stuff that I'd rather not miss out on". I went in with little expectations except that I heard it was a more... Japanese-inclined RPG, to say the least (i.e. has more Japanese culture etc. than some).

Anyway, I don't want to bore anyone to death so tl;dr off the bat, I don't like it because:

- moving around the town is menu-based and ugly

- I don't like the 1st-person view

- the portraits in dialog don't change much

- the demon system seems too complex

- have to die twice to get easy mode which is still hard, makes me very inclined to break the game with the DLC and sort of forsake the intended difficulty because this isn't the sort of challenge I enjoy (it feels more like harassment from the developers than a challenge XD)

- I am NOT a fan of "your decisions have a huge impact on the game" aspect. I've heard this is one of the niches or something of the series, possibly Persona too, but like I said this is my 1st game. It works in some games but I don't like when the story is so variable I don't feel like progressing because there is no proper, true, best, whatever ending. I'm more of a "you guide me and I might fill in the wholes or have slight alterations in the story but there should be some sort of canon and some sort of general follow through" if that makes sense. Maybe I'm judging this a little too harshly but right now it seems like the fate of major characters, alliances, etc. are decided on decisions and I'm honestly putting the game down because I don't want to **** something up somewhere. It's not really a flaw with the game, it's just a compatibility issue IMO, I'd say my personality is just not compatible with the game.

On the bright side? the 3D is awesome at times, the story and gameplay both have some nice depth, the voice acting is solid, and I do like RPG's in general, but I've had nothing to gawk at yet.

Now I feel a little better and might be able to pick this game up again in a week or so, hopefully no one hates me for sort of venting here, I'm not far enough into the game to hate anything quite yet lol, I just have some really bad first impressions (graphics and voice acting aside).

Holy... Blazer in SMT... Welcome to Shin Megami Tensei... or better to say, Welcome to hell, kid(yes, the SMT pros really say this to the noobs)

To start, SMT is notorious for the difficulty, and I've heard easy mode is still hard, easy's just a foreign concept to them, and although I am pleased to see you picked this up, I might have to say, for your first SMT, you started with the wrong one, I would've with Strange Journey or played a spin-off not named Persona, maybe Devil Survivor?

Anyway, I read your entire post and from my analysis, it looks like you've got beginner's blues, and you're mostly overwhelmed by the demon summoning... and I've probably gotta say, the 'your decisions' thing may have to grow on you, when I started, It overwhelmed me at first too, but I quickly got the hang of it, I think you might too.

And I doubt any SMT fan here will hate you for airing some grievances, I hope when you get back into it, you can enjoy it fully

[Samias]

I actually think in the long run Strange Journey seems harder than this game after the brutal beginning segment. The first hours of SMT4 definitely feel like hell with so few options at your disposal. However, this is a game where exploiting enemy weaknesses is incredibly gratifying and effective. I find that encounters are hard, but if I lost against anything, it was because my team was poorly balanced and left itself open to have a weakness exploited.

Also, the navigation is only menu based in the beginning area of the game. The rest of the game will play out like navigating around the Naraku dungeon, with a watered down overworld connecting various areas.

I can't say anything about the 1st person view. It's never bothered me because battles zoom by in a turn and don't eat up a lot of time, which is way more important to me than flashy effects. The framerate is also very good, I've never seen a battle hang as it processes any of the new battle effects that have spiced up the battles since Strange Journey and Devil Survivor. But if you don't like it and would rather see your character, then there isn't anything that will change your taste in games. Atlus games generally have low budgets and the majority of their handheld games are spent in first person view.

[Happy_Dingo]

- moving around the town is menu-based and ugly

Yup. But wait 'til you get to Tokyo. Towns(or areas I guess) are a lot better there.

- the demon system seems too complex

I've never found that part of SMT games complex but I'm sure you'll get used to it.

- have to die twice to get easy mode which is still hard, makes me very inclined to break the game with the DLC and sort of forsake the intended difficulty because this isn't the sort of challenge I enjoy (it feels more like harassment from the developers than a challenge XD)

You can go through the game without DLC easily. You just have to get used to exploiting weaknesses. Protip: you know how when an enemy absorbs or reflects an attack and you lose your turns. That applies to them as well.

I'm too hardcore for easymode =P

- I am NOT a fan of "your decisions have a huge impact on the game" aspect. I've heard this is one of the niches or something of the series, possibly Persona too, but like I said this is my 1st game. It works in some games but I don't like when the story is so variable I don't feel like progressing because there is no proper, true, best, whatever ending. I'm more of a "you guide me and I might fill in the wholes or have slight alterations in the story but there should be some sort of canon and some sort of general follow through" if that makes sense. Maybe I'm judging this a little too harshly but right now it seems like the fate of major characters, alliances, etc. are decided on decisions and I'm honestly putting the game down because I don't want to **** something up somewhere. It's not really a flaw with the game, it's just a compatibility issue IMO, I'd say my personality is just not compatible with the game.

Really? That's considered one of the freshest aspects of the series. You actually have control over the story. A lot of games say they do this but totally wish they did. I like a story with guts. It's easy to just say that everyone has a happy ending but that's just not realistic. I love how the game actually makes you think about your sense of morality. I can honestly say that this series has influenced my personality and my way of thinking. Few series have the balls to ask such tough questions.

I guess what I'm saying is don't be scared off just yet. Give it a while longer before making a final judgement (which it seems like that was your intention from the beginning).

EDIT: Persona 3 and 4 are actually quite a bit different as far as stories and gameplay. They're generally more newcomer friendly than the main SMT series (even if they're still quite difficult).

Edited July 25, 2013 by Happy_Dingo

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Okay so... My quest right now is to Slay the boss of Infernal Shinjuku... Am I getting close to an end yet? D:

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I actually think in the long run Strange Journey seems harder than this game after the brutal beginning segment.

Dunno bout you, but in my experience, SJ is also hard in the beginning, namely Antlia recruitment for your starting set of demons, and Bootes in its entirety of the first half

And then it suffers an absence of difficulty until that particular dungeon that is so legendary, it can make a crying baby cry more, and the final level dungeon which is designed by someone who is on crack

[WyvernSurfer]

I was lucky to get the first printing series of the game. So far, this game is giving me no quarter.

Also, is there a stat that affects Damage Resistance or anything like that?

Edited July 25, 2013 by WyvernSurfer

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Dunno bout you, but in my experience, SJ is also hard in the beginning, namely Antlia recruitment for your starting set of demons, and Bootes in its entirety of the first half

And then it suffers an absence of difficulty until that particular dungeon that is so legendary, it can make a crying baby cry more, and the final level dungeon which is designed by someone who is on crack

Is the final dungeon the one with teleporting everywhere? Because I'm in a place like that now...

[Chalis]

[spoiler=endings]I am pretty sure I got the 4th ending, to be perfectly honest.

[spoiler='Serious motherfucking spoilers][spoiler=Point of no return specula: do not read unless you have already activated Yamato]Also, unless I'm mistaken, the game is kind of a troll about what the point of no return is. The first time you're forced to decide whether to meet up with Walter at the barracks, or with Jonathon at the entrance to Naraku was NOT (for me) the vital decision point. (Interesting note: Meeting up with Isabeau at the Monolith did nothing for me, aside from a few minor lines of dialogue.) During all of Blasted Tokyo and Infernal Tokyo segments I was once again in a team with Walter AND Jonathon (Isabeau was still missing, though). Then, when about to activate Yamato for the third time, this is where I believe the TRUE points of no return are. There is the option of

Early End (Black Hole For the White People)

Not Early End

Then if doing the Not Early End, I saw one more choice about

Build a New World

Preserve Status Quo

which should be self-explanatory. No idea where Neutral fits into the picture, to be perfectly honest, and I had been attempting to gun for Neutral as best I could all along the way. Maybe it branches from something with Isabeau back in the "troll point of no return" that I didn't have the proper flags triggered for? For all I know, you might need to be on a second cycle game to activate it. But, ultimately, like I said, I copped out and took Early End.

SMTIV takes the Neutral alignment to its truest form.

Please don't look if it would affect your game style, this game's meant to be played with your true actions and how they reflect back.

A balance of both Law and Chaos, like Stephen and Laozi said in past games. Simply going without order and freedom is just stagnation after all.

[spoiler=post-Yamato spoiler]The point of no return is indeed that final question from the White.

Anyway looks like I'm in Law. Time to blow all my macca on fusions.