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I believe that I have found the most optimal pairings.


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Avatar (M) x Nowi maximizes the Galeforce + Luna combo among the children. Galeforce + Luna allows you to rip up everything during Player Phase, even in Apotheosis.

Gregor or Stahl/Nowi gives Nah Vantage. Vantage is all you need to negate the enemy phase, yet kill on it. Maximizing Galeforce is hardly necessary. Morgan's still a better unit and as such should be focused on.

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is this a reference for me or what

Anyways, nice pairings. I personally prefer a physical Owain and Gregor!Owain is my top choice, because Mercenary is all he need from Gregor and he really doesn't give a damn about class overlap(Libra!Owain anyone). also it helps about my headcanon that Gregor is an implied pedo

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Gregor or Stahl/Nowi gives Nah Vantage. Vantage is all you need to negate the enemy phase, yet kill on it. Maximizing Galeforce is hardly necessary. Morgan's still a better unit and as such should be focused on.

This

I should note that MU x Nowi is strictly inferior than 1 Super Morgan set up, because they both get the same amount of Galeforce. Excpet, while FE-MU get to play with her pair up partner, while Nah.... does not

With FE-MU we get

Olivia!Lucina

Olivia!Inigo

Ricken!Owain

Stahl!Severa

Henry!Cynthia

Brady

Gaius!Tharja

Donnel!Kjelle

FE-MU

Sumia

Agressor Morgan

With male MU we get

Olivia!Lucina

Olivia!Inigo

Ricken!Owain

Stahl!Severa

Henry!Cynthia

Brady

Gaius!Tharja

Donnel!Kjelle

Nah

Sumia

Morgan

Strictly speaking from Luna Galeforce maximization, the former is superior because of Agressor

Granted Male MU can run a Vantage set up, which is about the only advantage I can think off from Male MU x Nowi

And if we post this set up in gamefaqs, some idiot is going to say NO VAIKE KJELLE despite the fact that this is Galeforce oriented

Thankfully this is SF

Edited by I have a Dragon Boner
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And if we post this set up in gamefaqs, some idiot is going to say NO VAIKE KJELLE despite the fact that this is Galeforce oriented

Thankfully this is SF

I've seen that guy before. He seems to think Kjelle is worthless unless it's Vaike!Kjelle. I suppose you could just switch Vaike and Donnel, but Nah gets everything she needs from Vaike and Kjelle from Donnel.

Also, SUCCESSFULLY BEAT LUNATIC CHAPTER 2 WITHOUT HELP!!! I don't know about you guys, but for me this is a pretty big accomplishment.

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Someone just beat Apotheosis without DLC >_>

lol you can't beat apotheosis without dlc if apotheosis is dlc

Seriously, if I try to do optimal pairings (which I don't do a lot), my pairings are generally like this:

Avatar x Nowi

Chrom x Olivia

Lissa x Libra

Sully x Donnel

Miriel x Ricken

Sumia x Frederick

Maribelle x Henry

Panne x Kellam

Cordelia x Stahl

Tharja x Gaius

Cherche x Vaike

Usually, I just use the pairings I like.

Edited by FEUltiX+
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I've seen that guy before. He seems to think Kjelle is worthless unless it's Vaike!Kjelle. I suppose you could just switch Vaike and Donnel, but Nah gets everything she needs from Vaike and Kjelle from Donnel.

I've tried Vaike!Kjelle on my recent run and must admit, she sadly loses a lot of usage and momentum just from the lack of Galeforce (at least from personal experience anyway), and being specialized in a particular role (And please! Please! Don't tell me I don't know how to use tanks because that's fairly obvious). I won't deny that she has great bases and solid ability to tank, but she ultimately loses out on the versatility that Donnel offers her. More importantly Donnel is a good parent for Kjelle, primarily because she already has access to Luna for Galeforce and because Donnel doesn't hurt Kjelle's caps. Period.

I've also tried running Galeforce on Donnel!Nah and I can tell you one thing: her low speed and lack of Luna seriously hinders her ability to make good use of Galeforce, but that's not to say she can't use it. I found that the only possible way for Donnel!Nah to make use of Galeforce is to have Deliverer for mobility and an S-Rank support with a Berserker (equip a forged Brave Axe) for Dual Strikes to kick in more often (this is how you'll end up killing tougher enemies more often) in order to maximize its potential. This of course is both costly and expensive to maintain, should her Berserker pair not have access to Armsthrift. Not to mention luck will have to be on your side for the Dual Strikes to trigger.

Of course, if you just want to tank with Nah instead of "going off the nuts" with Galeforce, I found Armsthrift, Renewal, Swordbreaker, Sol, and Counter (don't pass Aptitude; I don't get why people do that) to be a delightful combination of skills. In my opinion, I don't think Nah needs Pavise, simply because her defense is massive enough to take a few physical hits. All she needs is Sol and she'll be good as new past almost every enemy phase (okay maybe a gross overexaggeration, but this shit works).

I'm not knocking Vaike!Kjelle or Donnel!Nah (or any other pairings for that matter) because they were still pretty fun to experiment with. All I want to say is that if anyone wants to run something that all the cool people aren't, it's going to require some work and effort to truly make them shine. You don't have to convince others that your pairs are good, just so long as you own that privileged information (puke I know...but whatever ^_^).

EDIT: Oh and Rescue Staff's OP. If you have a team that actually utilizes Falcon Knights, Sages, Valkyries, War Monks, or any other staff users you can pretty much use it to deploy and reposition Vaike!Kjelle (or any tanks really) at certain points on the frontline. However, before you do that you pretty much have to make sure the conditions on the field are favorable for any of your tanks to do its job.

Edited by kDog214
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Dark Flier

Also turn Gerome into Paladin or Hero if he is tanking

People who said General is the best tanking class does not know jack about the class itself. Just saying

Edited by I have a Dragon Boner
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Dark Flier

Also turn Gerome into Paladin or Hero if he is tanking

People who said General is the best tanking class does not know jack about the class itself. Just saying

Agreed. Generals lack mobility, are slower, and have less skill for proccing.

Though contrary to Dark Flier, I'd say Hero Kjelle and Paladin Gerome make a great pair. Strictly speaking from Apotheosis's perspective, with Kjelle as a Hero and Gerome as Paladin support, she'll gain the ability to double RFK Anna with DLC skills, tonics, and rallies accounted for. She has 44 speed as a Hero. Limit Break, that bumps up to 54. Speed Tonic (2), All Stat+2 (2), Rally Speed (4), Rally Spectrum (4), and Rally Heart (2) adds 14 to her speed. And with Paladin Pair Up, 7 is added to her speed. Making that a grand total of 75, which is barely enough to double Anna (check the math to see if I did this right).

Kjelle's and Gerome's skillset should look something like this:

Kjelle - Armsthrift/Luna/Galeforce/All Stat+2/Limit Break

Gerome - Dual Support+/Deliverer/Agressor/All Stat+2/Limit Break

Kjelle's job is to literally go out there and bash some skulls while Gerome's job is to support her. The trade-off for running these two is that in exchange for benefiting from Paladin's Strength mod, Kjelle loses mobility that she'd otherwise have from being a Dark Flier. However, this can easily be mitigated by Rescue Stalves as with almost everything else.

Edit: Scratch this, I forgot Anna has Counter :(

Edited by kDog214
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Paladin works. It's what I usually make her. Can fight well with Galeforce/Luna, mobility and weapon selection, and can tank well with Pavise/Aegis/Sol, balanced defensive stats and Ragnell/Gradivus. Have to change the skillset depending on what you want to do, but it's not a huge issue if you plan ahead. I sometimes make her a Dark Flier but only if I need her to support a Sage or Sorcerer, which is surprisingly more often than you might think.

Donnel!Kjelle's still pretty good as a tanking General, and she can still hit 66 speed if for whatever reason you're using Generals on Apotheosis. (Don't do this, by the way. Generals suck on that map.) The only time when she doesn't is if she's running a pair up that doesn't give at least a 2 speed bonus in which case she really has no business being a General regardless of father.

If you're doing Vaike!Kjelle, though, she's better off as a Hero imo. Those stats are crazy. For the most part, though, I usually advise Vaike!Kjelle in a situation where Male Avatar is absent or elsewhere and only 2/3 Galeforce-less girls can get it. I saw a pretty good argument a while ago for Vaike!Kjelle that went along those lines, (not on Gamefaqs, but SomethingAwful, so there's none of that skirmisher or bringing Generals to Apotheosis or "mods are ****" or any of that crap) so if you're interested, I could repost it.

Edited by HeoandReo
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Agreed. Generals lack mobility, are slower, and have less skill for proccing.

Though contrary to Dark Flier, I'd say Hero Kjelle and Paladin Gerome make a great pair. Strictly speaking from Apotheosis's perspective, with Kjelle as a Hero and Gerome as Paladin support, she'll gain the ability to double RFK Anna with DLC skills, tonics, and rallies accounted for. She has 44 speed as a Hero. Limit Break, that bumps up to 54. Speed Tonic (2), All Stat+2 (2), Rally Speed (4), Rally Spectrum (4), and Rally Heart (2) adds 14 to her speed. And with Paladin Pair Up, 7 is added to her speed. Making that a grand total of 75, which is barely enough to double Anna (check the math to see if I did this right).

Kjelle's and Gerome's skillset should look something like this:

Kjelle - Armsthrift/Luna/Galeforce/All Stat+2/Limit Break

Gerome - Dual Support+/Deliverer/Agressor/All Stat+2/Limit Break

Kjelle's job is to literally go out there and bash some skulls while Gerome's job is to support her. The trade-off for running these two is that in exchange for benefiting from Paladin's Strength mod, Kjelle loses mobility that she'd otherwise have from being a Dark Flier. However, this can easily be mitigated by Rescue Stalves as with almost everything else.

Edit: Scratch this, I forgot Anna has Counter :(

Sub out the AT on that for Lancebreaker and Anna's Hit will drop low enough to where facetanking the counter damage is perfectly safe, because you won't be taking extra damage from Anna's attacks.

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Paladin works.

Dark Flier is superior for tomes and long range Brave access

And serious mode here

if you don't want to go Dark Flier

1.

2.

3.

Dropping the bomb ready

GO BRIDE KJELLE for BOW

Or Bow Knight

The skillset is as huff mentioned

LanceBreaker - Luna - Limit Breaker - Galeforce - AS+2

AS+2 make up for stats deficiency. Lance Breaker turn Kjelle into an effective Anna killer as a (see spoiler).

Luna for offense

There are some thing that I just thought up AND want to mention for Gerome and Tanking, so it would be a different post

To put it simply if you want to go tanking, Paladin and Hero >>>>>>>>> General

Edited by I have a Dragon Boner
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Before I put the rest I need to give some calcs for Berserker!Vaike!Gerome which is interesting

57 + 15(Brave Axe) = 72

72 + 10(Limit) + 2(Tonic) + 5(Faire) + 10(Rally) = 99.

Without WTA bullshit, Gerome does 19 damage against 60 Defense enemies, 22 against 55 Defense, and 24 against 50

I should note that Henry!Gerome is comparably powerful to Vaike!Gerome

Now, Hero Frederick!Gerome has 85 ATK, so he does 12(60), 15(55), and 17(50)

So this got me thinking

How about Sage Gerome?

Lo and behold, Cellica Fart has comparable accuracy to +3 Brave Axe, AND does not give a fuck to WTA Bullshit.

How powerful? Cellica Fart has +5 Forges, and WTB adds 2 more to it

Lets calculate

With Frederick as a father(Fred has worst mag mods, which is why I use him)

45 + 11 = 56

56 + 27 = 83

83 - 55 = 28

14 x 4 = 56

Only 1 less damage than Frederick!Gerome as an Axe Wielder Gerome when they strike Anna. I don't have Apotheosis enemy data ready, but this sounds promising

So yeah, Sage!Gerome would be an acceptable alternative if you want to do a commedy option

Edited by I have a Dragon Boner
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If you're doing Vaike!Kjelle, though, she's better off as a Hero imo. Those stats are crazy. For the most part, though, I usually advise Vaike!Kjelle in a situation where Male Avatar is absent or elsewhere and only 2/3 Galeforce-less girls can get it. I saw a pretty good argument a while ago for Vaike!Kjelle that went along those lines, (not on Gamefaqs, but SomethingAwful, so there's none of that skirmisher or bringing Generals to Apotheosis or "mods are ****" or any of that crap) so if you're interested, I could repost it.

I'd be interested in seeing it.

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Paladin works. It's what I usually make her. Can fight well with Galeforce/Luna, mobility and weapon selection, and can tank well with Pavise/Aegis/Sol, balanced defensive stats and Ragnell/Gradivus. Have to change the skillset depending on what you want to do, but it's not a huge issue if you plan ahead. I sometimes make her a Dark Flier but only if I need her to support a Sage or Sorcerer, which is surprisingly more often than you might think.

Donnel!Kjelle's still pretty good as a tanking General, and she can still hit 66 speed if for whatever reason you're using Generals on Apotheosis. (Don't do this, by the way. Generals suck on that map.) The only time when she doesn't is if she's running a pair up that doesn't give at least a 2 speed bonus in which case she really has no business being a General regardless of father.

If you're doing Vaike!Kjelle, though, she's better off as a Hero imo. Those stats are crazy. For the most part, though, I usually advise Vaike!Kjelle in a situation where Male Avatar is absent or elsewhere and only 2/3 Galeforce-less girls can get it. I saw a pretty good argument a while ago for Vaike!Kjelle that went along those lines, (not on Gamefaqs, but SomethingAwful, so there's none of that skirmisher or bringing Generals to Apotheosis or "mods are ****" or any of that crap) so if you're interested, I could repost it.

Please do.

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Well, the time when I saw it and when it was posted was back in mid-to-late April, but I think it still makes quite a bit of sense and is pretty interesting to read even if it's not quite up to where min-maxing is currently. It's from Nakar, (of Ultima LP fame) and the context is that he's using a female Avatar for a third generation Morgan, so a kid has to be screwed out of Galeforce. It's basically trying to figure out the Vaike Triangle before it was even given a name, so here's the post.

---

Nakar:

Basically my current analysis is that one of Vaike/Donnel/Gaius goes to Tharja/Sully/Nowi, and it's a pretty reasonable conclusion:

* Two of the fathers pass Armsthrift (Vaike, Donnel). Two pass Galeforce (Gaius, Donnel). All pass Sol, but Gaius must pass Sol; Donnel and Vaike can pass Counter or Rally Strength, Vaike can pass Wrath and Axefaire, and the child can still go Hero for Sol.
* Two fathers pass Thief (Vaike, Gaius). Thief isn't that useful but Locktouch, Movement+1, Lucky Seven, and Acrobat are all decent. Acrobat is actually good for a General, which Kjelle and/or Vaike's daughter can do.
* All three girls presumably want Galeforce, but only two will get it because Vaike doesn't pass Pegasus Knight.
* Two of the three girls desire Armsthrift (Kjelle, Noire). Nah can roll as a Manakete with Dragonstone+ which is infinitely purchaseable, quite strong, and doesn't need to be forged (nor can it be).
* Other skills: Vaike passes Luna and Pavise, which Kjelle already has. Gaius passes Astra and Vantage, which Kjelle already has.
* Nah has the worst SPD modifier. Gaius passes the best SPD modifier.
* Kjelle is faster and has better SKL as a Hero than Nah, and is more likely to want and need Axefaire/Armsthrift/Helswath than Nah, who has Manakete. As a Hero Kjelle also has no weaknesses; Nah always has a Dragon weakness.
* Noire has the best MAG modifier and will probably be a Dark Flier support unit since she lacks Aggressor or Tomefaire. Therefore, she benefits most from the Troubadour tree, and is hurt the least by Donnel's middling SPD (Vaike and Gaius both pass excellent SPD modifiers) since SPD does not matter in Pair Up.
* Noire is the only one of the three who can be a Sorcerer, and thus benefits the most from Armsthrift because Aversa's Night basically requires Armsthrift. It would also mitigate Tomefaire's loss (because Tomefaire would often get bumped for Armsthrift/Limit Breaker anyway). Kjelle benefits second-most due to Helswath/Brave Axe, but both of those are easily bought or farmed.
* Noire is either blonde or a ginger with Vaike or Gaius as a father; Donnel gives her blackish-purple hair. Obviously this makes much more sense!

Kind of a tough call, but my thought now is Sully x Vaike, Nowi x Gaius, and Tharja x Donnel.

---

A lot of my thoughts kind of echo his, though I'd usually prefer Noire not just being a Dark Flier. Great Knight access is quite a bit more important now though, so I'm thinking that it could affect some of the theory of this.

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