Musical Chairs Mafia, Town Wins, the Mod Loses

[SB.]

my proposal was that you out if you have a role or not, not which one you have, also if they just reshuffle it then they DON'T know who has a PR or not. not too fussed about this though, this suggestion was more to get people talking than anything else (i also had an idea about all 1 shot roles using their shots tonight and we have a bunch of clears tomorrow, but dunno if it's worth using them all up tonight)

agree with bbm about outing which you had the next day regardless

[Elieson]

I'd be more supportive of your plan assuming the reshuffler was either a corpse in the corner or at least confirmed as used.

Regardless, outing having a PR is also a crumby idea, as it gives mafia an idea of who to kill while leaves our PRs at a loss of what to do. The BPV can't do anything anyway, and the watcher doesn't benefit from knowing who is a PR and who isn't. Vig isn't clarified as Day/Night (I'm assuming night but what do I know), and Roleblocker is stuck knowing who he could potentially fuck over, meaning the only benefit of publicaly claimed PRs is that the Tracker has a target to track for it's single use, and the RoleCop may have someone set to scan. Even the doc is still aiming blindly.

I just don't see much benefit to your idea, let it be Fullclaim or possession of a PR claim.

[Zkirsche]

I support BBM's idea of claiming what we did the previous phase, but not claiming our roles as is for the reasons mentioned.

[Elieson]

Dunno how I forgot about BroBM's idea, yea I support that. Though I question it's effectiveness, but we won't know that until later.

Also, I'm against the use of one-shot roles at the moment, due to midgame claiming later on, but I am still weighing the benefits of that.

[SB.]

it's pretty effective since it can essentially get us some easy clears since only townies can use the roles.

[Elieson]

We don't know anything about mafia fakes tho, and you're acting under the assumption that mafia wasn't given fakes while I'm not sure either or.

Is that something you're aware of?

[SB.]

What good do fakeclaims do in an open setup?

[Elieson]

13 players

13 roles in the open setup

3 mafia members due to rules means that there's always three roles not assigned to town.

What happens to those extra three roles?

[SB.]

they get them, but can't use them

wait, limited shot roles revert to vanilla so they can't be proven (vig aside)

ugh

[Zkirsche]

Mafia can't use those roles so if they claim they do and someone else gets it then we know they're lying. Fakeclaiming would be hard for scum.

Hmmm, in fact, asking people to not use their one shots is kinda iffy because scum literally couldn't use their one shots so it's like trying to hide the scum by making everyone do it.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

[Zkirsche]

If a role magically disappears from the list then the role is proven. If someone says "I used role X last night" and noone ccs then it can be asumed they're telling the truth.

[Elieson]

Or we have people use their one shots like Tracker and watcher and Vig during d1/n1, and hope that we achieve useful information, and end up with a pile of like 8-9 vanilla claims starting d2 to weed through.

Good idea kirsche. I love more confirmable vanillas.

[Elieson]

Wait are you assuming that NNR will publically announce that "the mafia used their one shot ninja" and "the one shot track has been used"?

Because that's exactly what it looks like you said

[NekoRex]

The "Fort Knox Setup" Votecount

Gregor (1): Elieson

Wallcrab (2): mafia sucks, EssBee

BBM (1): Strege

Refa (1): BBM

scorri (1): Objection!

Elieson (1): kirsche

Voteless Scum: Kay, scorri, Terrador, Gregor, Wallcrab, Refa

From the Q & A Department:

All townie chairs are Night Use Only.

The Janitor gets the results of a cleaned up flip.

I am not going to list what chairs remain in the setup, bar the list in the OP, or if they have been vanillafied. You're free to deduce what remains by yourself.

[Zkirsche]

Wait are you assuming that NNR will publically announce that "the mafia used their one shot ninja" and "the one shot track has been used"?

Because that's exactly what it looks like you said

No, but if we're all claiming what we did the previous day and someone claims they did a one-shot action and noone else claims they have that action or did that action then we know that that person is telling the truth and we have a clear; if someone ccs then we have a 1v1 and scum is easier to find. I love it when people are confirmed because that makes it easier to find scum via PoE, I'm glad you agree.

[Strege]

prims in charge of shooting another townies (probably an inactive/lurkscum)

##Vote: Objection

lol rvs votes with reasons

On another note, how would people feel about PRs outing? By that I mean claiming that they have a role, not which one they are? Could be a way to limit the janitor's use.

Was there any seriousness to this vote, SB?

Elie, you've seemed somewhat incredulous about things people have said a couple of times but I can't tell if you see scumminess in them or not, and I would ask that you be a bit more clear.

I think I'm against using all the one-shot abilities N1. It wastes watcher and tracker (because scum will definitely use their ninja) and may not be the best uses of cop and vig. It could produce up to five clears, but we could get those clears later on too.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Lonely Wallcrab I get the part about you confirming late, but coming in and not dropping a vote seems a little like scum overthinking their entrance to me.

[SB.]

@strege, no it was not

[Da Bear]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Lonely Wallcrab I get the part about you confirming late, but coming in and not dropping a vote seems a little like scum overthinking their entrance to me.

I couldn't really see the point of leaving a vote. RVS isn't really going to pressure anyone into doing stuff and I didn't feel like typing up a (probably) pointless vote <_<

(I will vote pretty soon but I want to get a better grasp on everything that's happened)

[Zkirsche]

There's more to watcher/tracker than just seeing a kill.

[Elieson]

So kirsche, assuming mafia rotates their Fakeclaims just as town rotates their roles, (in all fairness this theory makes sense to me, in terms of balance), the only players that potentially maximize benefit of claiming their role on the current day are things like Rolecop.

Hooker doesn't provide concrete information and is fakable. Tracker and Watcher? Same thing. Even doctor isn't confirmable. I'm doc, so if I say I visit you, does that mean I legit visited you because no one CC's me, and should be trusted until a potential CC emerges? No. I don't see why you think that is strong play game. Forcing 1v1 scenarios this early in the game forces us to risk what little we have in terms of one shot and power roles, and I don't think we need to recklessly risk it until like d2->

Also @Strege. I can adamantly disagree with other players and not find them scummy, something kirsche doesn't seem capable of, therefore, I haven't moved my RVS vote because I don't find kirsche nor SB (my two primary discussion partners) to be worthy of a vote.

[Elieson]

Also.

Rules confirm that used One-Shot roles become vanilla. Our roleCop can effectively confirm all non-vanilla roles on town players if they aren't used. If we start outing players with PRs, it gives our Rolecop good scan fodder but if we use up our oneshots quickly, our Rolecop effectively has like a 2/13 chance of hitting the Doc/Hooker, assuming one hasn't died yet. I don't like dem odds

[Strege]

There's more to watcher/tracker than just seeing a kill.

That's a good point. I still don't see the benefit to the plan, though, if we can get the clears later.

@Elie, yes, the mafia can get roles just like town but can't use them (it's in the OP). We don't have a rolecop. That doc CC scenario is not comparable to a one-shot ability because only town can expend the one-shot abilities, so if I say "I watched kirsche last night" and a) no one else claims to have had watcher the day before b) no one claims to have an unused watcher that current day and c) no one got janned the night before, then I would be clear.

[Elieson]

I completely overlooked the cop being one-shot.

[Zkirsche]

Firstly 1-shots aren't fakeable as only town members can use them and watcher/trackers do provide concrete information (there's 1 role in the game that will not show up on a visit).

Forcing 1v1 scenarios this early in the game forces us to risk what little we have in terms of one shot and power roles, and I don't think we need to recklessly risk it until like d2

I still don't see the benefit to the plan, though, if we can get the clears later.

Why do later what we can do today? Waiting just lets more of the PRs die and be wasted.

Also we don't necessarily have to lynch between a 1v1. If someone claims they used the tracker and someone else claims they have the tracker role, then tell the alleged current tracker to not use their role. If noone has tracker the next time then the alleged is very likely guilty (not 100% - scum can get tracker and lie but odds are with us).

Getting a 1v1 scenario is essentially copping a guy and nets us scum. There is no downside to collecting easy 1v1s early to test and judge quickly.

[Zkirsche]

I can adamantly disagree with other players and not find them scummy, something kirsche doesn't seem capable of

I'm not voting you because I disagree with you I'm voting you because there's scum intent in your plan.