Redwall Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Aesthetics make some difference...for example, if Awakening weren't so shiny, more people would notice the bland map design. Maybe it's just me, but even FE12 looked a lot more polished than FE11 visually. When I played FE11 for the first time and saw the first map, I was like "oh goodness, my eyes," whereas I didn't get that feeling with FE12. Gameplay-wise I can't comment too much on FE11 since I just stopped out of boredom upon reaching Minerva's recruitment chapter. But the first three chapters require a shitton of luck to clear quickly, which is annoying. Some of the later ones feel very same-y due to the low enemy variety. FE12...although I dislike its lack of character balance and its increased emphasis on AI manipulation, the maps are generally well-designed, and the music and visuals are OK. Personally I prefer FE7's hard modes over FE12's Lunatic difficulties since H3 and H4 feel a bit fatiguing (at least to me); I would have liked to see easy-ish levels like Chapter 13 occur at a slightly (but not drastically) higher frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karasz Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) I haven't played Heroes of Light and Shadow yet, but the translation doesn't run on my computer. Stupid Mac... >_> Anyway, I didn't necessarily hate Shadow Dragon, but I just thought it was an overall bland experience. The graphics were decent (though the fight sequences were meh to me), the story seemed bland, and the mechanics were...well, different. Granted, every Fire Emblem game features a new mechanic or two, but something about Shadow Dragon's just felt...off, to me. Granted, the first Fire Emblem game I played was Blazing Sword, and I haven't touched any of the Japanese games yet, so you can kind of see where I'm going with it. Overall, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't good. It was just dull. This four year old video showcases a few points on how Shadow Dragon could be conceived to be bad. It's a little old, sure, but it gives us...some perspective, at least. Sweet mother of Ashera, this guy likes to rant. Edited August 13, 2013 by Karaszure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I didnt like Shadow Dragon. It felt clunky and devoid of love. So i didnt finish it. Not that i had a legit copy to begin with. argh argh Never played FE12. So dunno about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueFire Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Shadow Dragon's portraits and battle animations ruined it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) But it's not like most characters really have that much development or even do that much in the story. They still help immensely to give the series a soul. I mean they could definitely be better on the whole (again, they're usually kinda like junk food- nice but fleeting), but SD let them slip a bit too far. Edited August 13, 2013 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Shadow Dragon was my first FE and I loved every bit of it, so much, that I re did it over 25 times. After hearing everyone's opinion of it, the only thing I've seen as a reason for hating FE 11 is how it compares to the rest of the series. What you need to understand is the fact that it is indeed a remake of FE 1, which didn't have the things that the others did,but with how faithful it was to the original, as a remake, it did its job to introduce the classic FE to everyone with how simple it was. And I'm well aware of how FE 12 tried to redeem SD with the supports, and I'll admit I preferred its story, but the supports made playing the game a little more complicated and it affects my strategies by trying to get two units to support (the same thing happens to me in Awakening and is why I'm stuck on CH 11 in my hard/classic run). Yeah, the DS FE's aren't the same, but that's because they're remakes of how FE was back in the day (with some added features here and there so that it's not a complete copy and paste of the originals). If FE was international from the start, SD wouldn't be getting so much backlash All in all, it really just depends on which FE you start with, that determines your expectations for the series. Like I said, I started with SD and since then, preferred a more simple FE, and those who started with the more drawn out games prefer FE to have more character and story development,but that doesn't mean any of them suck. It's all a matter of perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 FE11 bores me once I load the game. It really does feel like a game from 1990. FE12 was fun to play once and I did enjoy it, but making it work on my computer is too much of a hassle for me, since it lags like ccrazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 people dont like shadow dragon because of lack of story and character development, but if you're looking for that you're playing the wrong series no. For me, the big draw of Fire Emblem over other strategy series is that each unit is a unique, irreplacable person. Even if the story is simple and the character development sporadic, these are actual people with hopes, dreams and fears, and seeing them die forever is just as heart-wrenching as death in real life. That is why FE11's gaiden chapter requirements are awful. If you remove the story and character development, you're left with a strategy series far less balanced and polished than Advance Wars. On the topic of DSFE, I think SD is an overhated. The interface is neat and I like the accuracy formula, but since it's so different to the other games in the series if you come in expecting something similar, you will inevitably be disappointed. Can't say anything about NMotE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hmm, I felt that the gaiden requirements for FE11 just fit with the story honestly. People die in war, they got that point across just with very minimal effort. However, they should have made the characters you got in those chapters actually useful. Killing off 3 characters just to get a crappy one doesn't seem logical. I can understand why people are critical of FE11 because after playing FE12 I don't even look at SD anymore tbh. The game is much more polished and playing through the prologue isn't that bad. It adds to the story and helps you lvl and all that jazz. Once you get past it I find that the game opens up a bit and you can find a good number of ways to win a chapter moreso than in SD. Besides there are so many bad DS titles I thought these games did the platform some justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hmm, I felt that the gaiden requirements for FE11 just fit with the story honestly. People die in war, they got that point across just with very minimal effort. However, they should have made the characters you got in those chapters actually useful. Killing off 3 characters just to get a crappy one doesn't seem logical. I can understand why people are critical of FE11 because after playing FE12 I don't even look at SD anymore tbh. The game is much more polished and playing through the prologue isn't that bad. It adds to the story and helps you lvl and all that jazz. Once you get past it I find that the game opens up a bit and you can find a good number of ways to win a chapter moreso than in SD. Besides there are so many bad DS titles I thought these games did the platform some justice. wut the DS had a ton of amazing games (since I'm pretty sure you're not referring to all the shovelware that inevitably follows the leading platform) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 wut the DS had a ton of amazing games (since I'm pretty sure you're not referring to all the shovelware that inevitably follows the leading platform) I'm not fully denying that but, as someone who's purchased alot of ds games a good portion of them just didn't do it for me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 FE11 is good and FE12 is amazing. I don't get why everyone hates them- oh wait, they don't have their precious 'character development'. that's actually quite a big issue, despite you belittlement of it. people want to care about what they play. if i wanted to just play a game of chess, i'd play a goddamn game of chess. people dont like shadow dragon because of lack of story and character development, but if you're looking for that you're playing the wrong series yeah, expecting a decent video game out of a video game is pretty stupid these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 FE isn't really a series that goes towards character development playable character wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 SD only give a damn about the goddess herself, and I don't see a problem with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Those days when people played games for the gameplay are long gone, I guess. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 FE11 is good and FE12 is amazing. I don't get why everyone hates them- oh wait, they don't have their precious 'character development'. weren't you just saying in the Awakening forum how FE7/8 were better than Awakening because their characters were better developed? hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 it's not like fire emblem characters are really characters, anyway - they're one-dimensional exaggerations of a specific personality. one may as well just refer to them as labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Those days when people played games for the gameplay are long gone, I guess. :( no, they're simply held to a higher standard nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I like 'em, just not as much as other games in the series. But they are by no means bad and really shouldn't be hated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) weren't you just saying in the Awakening forum how FE7/8 were better than Awakening because their characters were better developed? hmmmm Blazing Sword's characters weren't really all that developed either. Let's be honest here. Fire Emblem is a series with dozens of characters, permadeath, and a support system where the characters options aren't limited that much by who he/she supports and how much. If you play for character development, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Edited August 13, 2013 by The Void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Blazing Sword's characters weren't really all that developed either. Let's be honest here. Fire Emblem is a series with dozens of characters, permadeath, and a support system where the characters options aren't limited that much by who he/she supports and how much. If you play for character development, then you're barking up the wrong tree. I wasn't commenting on FE7's level of development, I was pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming FE7/8 were better than Awakening due to character development and then claiming it doesn't matter when referring to the DS games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) it's really not a difficult problem to fix, void. 1. hire better writers, or allow the company to focus on the story and characters a little more 2. decide who is important to the story. no permadeath, just retreats. give them development 3. for those that aren't important, don't make them have exaggerations of personalities usually found in animes 4. maybe make a smaller cast, thus allowing step 3 to be easier, and a more meaningful support log to happen i can understand why most people here don't really care--it's a tactics game so strategy is what people here care about the most. this doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way about fire emblem games, and it certainly doesn't mean IS should give us a half-assed job, either. Edited August 13, 2013 by Phoenix Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Let's be honest here. Fire Emblem is a series with dozens of characters, permadeath, and a support system where the characters options aren't limited that much by who he/she supports and how much. If you play for character development, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Why? I don't understand this whole "don't expect character development in Fire Emblem" thing. What was stopping IS from doing what they did in FE12 with the in-base conversations in FE11? it's not like fire emblem characters are really characters, anyway - they're one-dimensional exaggerations of a specific personality. one may as well just refer to them as labels. I'd rather have this than "I'm a red haired cavalier," "I'm a green haired cavalier." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 FE11 is amazing. I love everything about it. Even with its lack of character development for anyone not names Marth. And yes, Marth does get character development in this game. More than the likes of Seliph, Alm or Roy at least. FE12 is technically the better game and I love it but I love FE11 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The irony is Abel and Cain can be more complex than most of the Cavs in the series >_> I think the only FE where they really play the Cavs as a gimmick was like FE6 and FE3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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