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Does Thracia 776 deserve it's reputation for difficulty?

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Just because a game is more difficult doesn't mean it's better designed. There's a very small line between a good challenge and just straight bullshit. Xavier and the Silver Card cross that line into straight bullshit territory.

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Just because a game is more difficult doesn't mean it's better designed. There's a very small line between a good challenge and just straight bullshit. Xavier and the Silver Card cross that line into straight bullshit territory.

I liked the idea especially if you know that capturing the soldiers and releasing them doesn't count as killing them. I think getting Xavier could have been better designed such as having larger spaces to work with rather than narrow confines.

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Thracia is an interesting case, a first run will be pretty darn rough but as you play it more. It becomes less so not too unlike two action series i am well versed in. Contra and Ninja Gaiden. Love the dismount and tiredness mechanics I wish they'd get brought back, also fe6 kind of has a homage to Xavier via Douglas lol

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Just because a game is more difficult doesn't mean it's better designed. There's a very small line between a good challenge and just straight bullshit. Xavier and the Silver Card cross that line into straight bullshit territory.

But it's still oàne of the most interresing example. Having ennemy with hax stats is just tedious, and not that interresting. Some ennemies are clearly OP (Mainly Frigging Elf who will turn all your units against you if not dealt with quick enough.)

There are a lot of bullshit (these Magic Tiles comes to mind, one of the reasons Elf is such a pain ; or status effect that doesn't wear off ; FOW when you can't see the map), but it's more strategic bullshit than FE13 Lunatic + (From what I heard, never played it, and I don't think I ever will.).

Basically, there's two way to makes a game hard : Makes ennemies extremely strong (the Lunatic way), or makes the situation challenging with ennemy positionning, and strategy. The fact that it's easier on subsequent turns is pretty positive I think. It's a game that makes you really think. There's a lot of Trial and Error, and some things are clearly insane, but I'll play it over Lunatic Mode every time, because it realy is a strategic game.

The other good thing is that it requires teamworks. The Fatigue system means that (until the very end of the game), every unit (well, a lot of them, at least) can have its own uses, you'll circle between the different healers to let them recuperate, for examples. The closest thing you have to a Jeigan (Dagda) disappears for an important part of the game. The Lord isn't subject to Fatigue, but is clearly not OP, so you can't rely entirely on it (contrary to a lot of the modern lords).

Even with Arena Abusing, this game was hard the first time.

And, as I already said, the best part of the game is that all of this works perfectly with the story. This may be another reasons why it is seen as the hardest FE : Everything on the script and on the gameplay show this sign of urgency, and the battle against crazy odds. Leaf is fleeing with a limited army, and doesn't have any time to breath (Fatigue system), He have to rely on taking his weapons on his ennemie to survive. There are a some errors, and some things could be made better, but it really oes a fine job at what it does and let a strong impression on everyone who played it.

I'm not sure if I was clear, but I'll like more FE that follow this approach.

Thracia is an interesting case, a first run will be pretty darn rough but as you play it more. It becomes less so not too unlike two action series i am well versed in. Contra and Ninja Gaiden. Love the dismount and tiredness mechanics I wish they'd get brought back, also fe6 kind of has a homage to Xavier via Douglas lol

Actiually, Xavier is more a tribute to Hannibal. Douglas was more bullshit than Xavier (Trying Douglass to kill someone being killed is really an hassle)

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"Makes ennemies extremely strong (the Lunatic way), or makes the situation challenging with ennemy positionning, and strategy."

Or do both

The fact that some fanbois put FE5 on such a high pedestal is what bothers me. Outside of Ranked, Its not THAT hard. Its not hard enough that its difficulty is "uncomparable" considering how much you can do to break the game.

Edited by JSND

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Actiually, Xavier is more a tribute to Hannibal. Douglas was more bullshit than Xavier (Trying Douglass to kill someone being killed is really an hassle)

Getting Douglas is trivial in comparison to Xavier since you can have weak Iron Sword wielders dodge tank him, and if you need setup time his low Res leaves him susceptible to sleep. Xavier's recruitment is far more involving and has several things that can go wrong.

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"Makes ennemies extremely strong (the Lunatic way), or makes the situation challenging with ennemy positionning, and strategy."

Or do both

The fact that some fanbois put FE5 on such a high pedestal is what bothers me. Outside of Ranked, Its not THAT hard. Its not hard enough that its difficulty is "uncomparable" considering how much you can do to break the game.

And what game in the series can't be broken easily?

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Just because a game is more difficult doesn't mean it's better designed. There's a very small line between a good challenge and just straight bullshit. Xavier and the Silver Card cross that line into straight bullshit territory.

Why would that be bullshit when you don't even need either of these things to beat the game?

I mean, it's a roleplaying game. You make choices and they affect how things go down the line. As long as missing something doesn't mean you hit a brickwall at the end, I don't see a problem.

Edit:

I would also like to contest that the game is dependent on luck. Honestly, I consider it pretty much the least luck based game in the series.

Because your average enemy simply isn't that strong. That means the biggest luck factor in the series is rather weak in this game = the level up gains.

If as many as 2-3 of your units manage to grow into powerhouses, you are fine. That's all you need to take on the enemies champions or the particular dangerous areas.

Contrast that with NMyster or Awakening: Because every single grunt turns into a juggernaut, those who gets unlucky with their levels simply won't be able to stay in the game. Period.

And that is not something you have any control over. It's as luck based as it gets.

I grant that Dalshim in Manster and Reinharts drawbridge are just bullshit. But otherwise the game is pretty straightforward or allows time to adapt to the changing circumstances.

Enemy criticals can be completely negated with scrolls. Movement stars are few and far in between. So it's not too much to ask to take into account that they might trigger.

So far the most part, it rewards proper planning and punishes carelessness. And I say that this is how difficulty in a strategy game should be.

Edited by BrightBow

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Getting Douglas is trivial in comparison to Xavier since you can have weak Iron Sword wielders dodge tank him, and if you need setup time his low Res leaves him susceptible to sleep. Xavier's recruitment is far more involving and has several things that can go wrong.

Well, I just meant that Xavier was more thought out... Recruiting Douglass is more annoying than difficult, actually.

"Makes ennemies extremely strong (the Lunatic way), or makes the situation challenging with ennemy positionning, and strategy."

Or do both

The fact that some fanbois put FE5 on such a high pedestal is what bothers me. Outside of Ranked, Its not THAT hard. Its not hard enough that its difficulty is "uncomparable" considering how much you can do to break the game.

FE5 Lunatic +... If they ever makes a remake, we'll have it without a doubt.

Also, Bright Bow explained what I meant on better terms and with better arguments...

Edited by TendaSlimeKnight Ikkar

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And what game in the series can't be broken easily?

FE12 Lunatic

Because unlike FE5, I don't get say..... level 20 Promoted Palla at chapter 6. Even then, I doubt a level 20 promoted Palla can solo a chapter in the late game

Edited by JSND

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Why would that be bullshit when you don't even need either of these things to beat the game?

I mean, it's a roleplaying game. You make choices and they affect how things go down the line. As long as missing something doesn't mean you hit a brickwall at the end, I don't see a problem.

Edit:

I would also like to contest that the game is dependent on luck. Honestly, I consider it pretty much the least luck based game in the series.

Because your average enemy simply isn't that strong. That means the biggest luck factor in the series is rather weak in this game = the level up gains.

If as many as 2-3 of your units manage to grow into powerhouses, you are fine. That's all you need to take on the enemies champions or the particular dangerous areas.

Contrast that with NMyster or Awakening: Because every single grunt turns into a juggernaut, those who gets unlucky with their levels simply won't be able to stay in the game. Period.

And that is not something you have any control over. It's as luck based as it gets.

I grant that Dalshim in Manster and Reinharts drawbridge are just bullshit. But otherwise the game is pretty straightforward or allows time to adapt to the changing circumstances.

Enemy criticals can be completely negated with scrolls. Movement stars are few and far in between. So it's not too much to ask to take into account that they might trigger.

So far the most part, it rewards proper planning and punishes carelessness. And I say that this is how difficulty in a strategy game should be.

Then you miss 5 99% hits of Astra, and whoops.

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FE12 Lunatic

Because unlike FE5, I don't get say..... level 20 Promoted Palla at chapter 6. Even then, I doubt a level 20 promoted Palla can solo a chapter in the late game

Who is this character you're referring to?

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Who is this character you're referring to?

Apparently promoting Asvel in Chapter 6 makes things a lot easier, although I've never done this myself. Chapter 6 is the easiest Manster map, as I just send Karin to check all the villages while everyone escapes through the rightmost exit.

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Basically, 1-/1 Asvel barely even cares about his offensive stats anymore since he'll almost always be doubling and killing with 3 PCC. Then he has 7 Movement, Continue, a movement stars and he can even be a backup staff user with a D rank, higher than Nanna who just joined. You'll likely also train him up in Thunder magic because they're so common and, by midgame, he should be able to use Thoron and Thunderstorm. With maxed Magic and a Pure Water boost, you're looking at 45 Attack, 1-2 range hitting Magic, easily obliterating generics in a single hit and doing a healthy amount to bosses.

You can even use Ambush on him, which is even better than Olwen since he's more powerful, accurate and evasive. Now combine that with Warp staves.

Edited by Woodshooter

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I've always felt Asvel is overrated. He's frail, and with the 1RN system you will get hit sooner or later. The chapter design, the capturing mechanic and the fatigue system also curtail one unit being able to dominate like in most of the later games. The true breaking of Thracia happens with Warp staves.

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After reading a few comments and gathering my knowledge of Thracia, chapter 24x does not need to be visited unless you may need the warp staves the two dark bishops have, or the sleep and silence staves, then go to the chapter. Chapter 24 should give ya what u need to beat the game. I will always visit the gaiden chapter just for fulfillment.

Posting again, for Xavier's recruitment to be easier, have Tina steal the hammers from the lenster knights, and have pirn steal the killer lances, also have Tina steal the master axe and master lance, and have pirn steal the thoron tone and killer bow. Give the build ring to pirn before doing this so he can steal the lances. Also kill the freege knights with a magic user from the side of the wall (assuming you are funneling the knights at one if the doors) After doing that, you'll see Xavier's recruitment a bit easier but exhausts uses from the thief stave and repair staff. ( Safy will have repair the thief staff to get all the hammers, and master axe/lance)

MODEDIT: heh, months old doublepost

Edited by Integrity

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Hard to say... I had a harder time with FE10 hard mode than with Thracia 776, but Thracia's difficulty is more based on the situations the game forces you to deal with rather than very powerful enemies (FE10 Hard mode, FE13 Lunatic mode, etc).

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Personally I don't think it was that hard. Now mind you I only made it to the chapter with Xavier before I got bored playing it. Anywho the chapters I played weren't that hard. A few times I had to start over again but as long as you don't play dumb you should be good.

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Sorry for resurrecting this topic here, but I just beat FE5 yesterday so I'd like to chip in.

From what I found while playing the game, it was actually pretty easy for the most part. Enemies were easy and dropped like flies due to skills like Wrath, and everyone on your team criticals like crazy. However the game does give you unexpected deaths with the RNG every once in a while. So it's not exactly hard, it's just that the game just wants you to lose sometimes and makes it happen via RNG.

That being said, there was only a few chapters that I found very very annoying to play. And of those, the most annoying was 22, which I found to be nearly unplayable. Luckily I was able to get Asvel to kill the boss and warpskip the chapter after around five tries of legitimately trying to beat it. But man that one chapter sucked major balls.

So yeah overall I found the game pretty easy compared to the other games in the series because your units are extremely overpowered. Not to mention staves are freaking amazing in this game. But man that chapter 22 (and some others) was just the stupid exception to that rule.

I found games like RD, SD's hard modes, and Awakening to be a lot harder than this game.

Edited by DomesticHausCat

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I'd say FE5 is filled with bullshit that make it hard, such as lolwarptitles on that-map-with-Eyvel, the amount of enemies with hero weapons, silence and berserk staves, the Xavier chapter etc. It's filled with fake difficulty, imo. It's as if the developpers made that game to troll you because they hate the players.

Edited by Rapier

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I'd say FE5 is filled with bullshit that make it hard, such as lolwarptitles on that-map-with-Eyvel, the amount of enemies with hero weapons, silence and berserk staves, the Xavier chapter etc. It's filled with fake difficulty, imo. It's as if the developpers made that game to troll you because they hate the players.

I get the warp tiles any maybe the staffs. But everything else?

For one thing, the enemy doesn't even have hero weapons. They are player only in the first place.

And even if they weren't, they would be an entirely fair obstacle because you'd know in advance who has them and can plan your strategy accordingly.

And I know that I am repeating myself here but: You don't need to recruit Xavier to finish the game. It's just an optional objective.

If you don't have the means or the patience to recruit Xavier, then simply don't recruit him.

To be sure, he is a cool guy to have around. But he is ultimately not needed for anything.

Edited by BrightBow

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I'd say FE5 is filled with bullshit that make it hard, such as lolwarptitles on that-map-with-Eyvel, the amount of enemies with hero weapons, silence and berserk staves, the Xavier chapter etc. It's filled with fake difficulty, imo. It's as if the developpers made that game to troll you because they hate the players.

personally I'd argue that simple wholesale steroid blasts to the enemy stats and weapons without any change in enemy placement or ai is real "fake difficulty"

i like the idea of a game where the enemy is playing dirty to try and kill you, with ambushes, ridiculous situations, insane status staves, etc

it changes the way you think and as such i believe the game "deserves" its reputation even if it is not strictly speaking the most difficult game in the series

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None of those things Rapier listed are examples of actual fake difficulty anyway - they are within the mechanics of the game and the game gives you means to deal with them, so it's real difficulty. Specially status staves, so many people complain about them and like... deal with it?

Fake difficulty is more like if FE10 gave mastery skills to the "3rd tier" enemies - no matter how good your characters are their survival would depend on luck because most masteries can kill anything. Or the gate/throne bonuses in FE6 that make killing bosses a gamble instead of making them actually hard to kill (like FE5 does!).

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Well...FE5 thrones aren't exactly a good example of how to make bosses difficult imo. 10 def is way too over the top. I bet lowstr characters will be useless against them.

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