PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Roivann]

Donnel should probably give Aptitude. Counter... well, counter's kind of "meh" overall. It's neat, but as far as usefulness goes, Aptitude would help out way more.

[Czar_Yoshi]

A rundown on all of those options:

Gaius x Nowi: Nah is a little faster, but still slow and lacks procs to kill with (well, Astra and Lethality). This Nah works better as an Assassin with Swordfaire than a Manakete. She could also be a Dark Flier with either Faire.

Donnel x Nowi: Natural Sol so you can pass down a Warrior skill as well, but Nah is even slower than she already is and still lacks a proc to kill with. Dragonstones aren't forgeable so AT isn't very important.

Gaius x Tharja: Inherent Galeforce+Luna, as well as good offensive stats. Vantage is also present for VV, but Sage is missing so you'd have to use DF for that.

Donnel x Tharja: Same as Gaius, but trades Vantage and Spd for AT, Renewal and Sol. The tankier option, but tanks don't care for Galeforce as much.

Gaius x Sully: Myrmidon overlap. Kjelle gets good Spd and Galeforce to go along with her Luna, though.

Donnel x Sully: Offers lower offensive mods, but has the skills to easily switch between tanking and offense, which is useful for training. Hero makes a strong ending class for Kjelle with her natural Swordfaire.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[MelonGx]

For against enemy Range 1 Counters and Vantage+s, bow and tome classes are always having the high priority for front attackers.

That means Galeforced Noire with natural Bowfaire and Lifetaker has better performance than Galeforced Kjelle who has neither of them.

So I'd suggest choosing Noire's father before Kjelle's.

[tuvarkz]

For against enemy Range 1 Counters and Vantage+s, bow and tome classes are always having the high priority for front attackers.

That means Galeforced Noire with natural Bowfaire and Lifetaker has better performance than Galeforced Kjelle who has neither of them.

So I'd suggest choosing Noire's father before Kjelle's.

Noire will still have a higher MAG mod, she should go Dark Flier as end class, or Sorc.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Unless someone specifically says they're playing Lunatic+, it's generally safe to assume they aren't.

There's nothing Tome users can do against Range 1 Counter that Javelins and Hand Axes can't do. Range 1 Counters aren't dangerous because they limit your attacking options, they're dangerous because they mob you on EP and if you retaliate, you'll take damage. And the important property of Bows in Lunatic+ is that they don't retaliate at 1 range, not how much damage they do, so Bowfaire isn't required to use them well.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Soup]

So in the end I've come to this thread to ask some pairing advice.

Currently I am doing a Female Only run, so the children are mainly meant for postgame (future past dlc) / streetpass annoyance. They're not intended (except for Lucina) to be used in the maingame. (though, I'd like to minimise grinding the kids and keep them in their respective classes as much as possible, if possible at all)

The main questions I have are skill inheritance and pairing tips. Boldfonted pairs are the ones where I am the most in doubt. Current pairs I've come up with:

[spoiler=A visualisation]

Already realised: Chrom x FEMU

Gaius x Tharja: Noire inherits Counter + ?? I suppose Noire could inherit Luna / Vengeance from Tharja for a Sniper Noire.
Stahl x Cordelia: Galeforce from Cordy, but not sure what Stahl should give. I guess vantage might work for a VV build Hero Severa?
Ricken x Maribelle: Galeforce from Mari and Luna from Ricken for a Luna hitter Sage Brady.
Vaike x Cherche: Not sure what to pass to Wyvern Lord Gerome. Maybe swordbreaker from Cherche if I want to go barbarian first for some STR growth? (or something like that)
Virion x Olivia: Also not sure what to do here
Lon'Qu x Miriel: Planning to do a VV build. Obviously vantage from Lon'Qu, Vengeance from Miriel. Sage Laurent.
Libra x Lissa: Same as above, a VV build. Vengeance from Libra, Galeforce from Lissa. Sage Owain (considering that his MAG growth > STR Growth)
Panne x Fred: Lancebreaker from Panne to handle pesky beastlances, Luna from Fred (Nevertheless, I'll probably bench Yarne)
Henry x Sumia: Galeforce from Sumia, counter from Henry, I suppose. Or would Wrath work better for a DF Cynthia?
Donnel x Sully: Counter from our Donnel, Sully passes Luna to Kjelle.
Gregor x Nowi Not sure what to do here. Planning to pass swordbreaker from Nowi to Nah to deal with wyrmslayers. (Nevertheless, I'll probably bench Nah)

[MelonGx]

Cherche to Gerome: Dual Support+

(Always pass exclusive skills unless you're doing no-grind)

You can re-consider about Gregor x Cherche and Vaike x Nowi because there are absolutely no differences between Gregor!Gerome's Str+6 and Vaike!Gerome's Str+7.

For Vaike!Nah you can have a pure supporter Nah with AT, Axefaire, Luna and General class that gives Nah 103 MT. Gregor!Nah doesn't have the General class.

Unless someone specifically says they're playing Lunatic+, it's generally safe to assume they aren't.

There's nothing Tome users can do against Range 1 Counter that Javelins and Hand Axes can't do. Range 1 Counters aren't dangerous because they limit your attacking options, they're dangerous because they mob you on EP and if you retaliate, you'll take damage. And the important property of Bows in Lunatic+ is that they don't retaliate at 1 range, not how much damage they do, so Bowfaire isn't required to use them well.

I made the mistake. It's not only the Range 1 Counters, but all Counters.

In player phase, if you use Brave Sword/Lance/Axe to hit them, your unit does eat the counterback damage.

It's convenient for a Vengeance attacker to set up. But except for that, it only causes your units injure or die.

Noire will still have a higher MAG mod, she should go Dark Flier as end class, or Sorc.

It's OK to drop off weaponfaire for tactical reasons.

But how about Kjelle? Noire still has a Lifetaker to occupy the slot, what should we fill Kjelle's slot with?

Edited February 10, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

So in the end I've come to this thread to ask some pairing advice.

Currently I am doing a Female Only run, so the children are mainly meant for postgame (future past dlc) / streetpass annoyance. They're not intended (except for Lucina) to be used in the maingame. (though, I'd like to minimise grinding the kids and keep them in their respective classes as much as possible, if possible at all)

The main questions I have are skill inheritance and pairing tips. Boldfonted pairs are the ones where I am the most in doubt. Current pairs I've come up with:

So you mention playing under restrictions that would mostly apply to maingame, and talk about growth rates (caps matter in minmax, growths matter in main game), but under those restrictions you're not going to be getting any children until postgame when those two things don't matter anymore. I'll just give postgame advice, so correct me if that isn't what you're looking for. Anyway, those pairings are mostly fine, but you might want to give Inigo a father who gives him Luna or Vengeance.

General skill passdown rules: Mothers with Galeforce and male children should always pass down Galeforce. Panne should pass down Swordbreaker if she's not marrying someone with Wyvern Rider, but she is so it doesn't matter. Maribelle and Miriel should pass down DS+, though it's not very important. All other mothers don't matter, just pass down whatever is convenient (usually your best training skill, so things like Sol, Veteran, and *Faire are strong options).

Fathers with female children and male-exclusive classes should pass down skills from said classes (Barbarian and Fighter). You have several options here:

Axefaire: valuable if the child has a viable axe-using ending class, the best of which is usually Hero.

Counter: sometimes helpful when fighting powerful Risen or when making a Streetpass team.

Despoil: speeds up farming if you have nothing better to do, and makes a very satisfying noise when it activates.

Sol: although Hero isn't gender-specific, some fathers like Gaius have Fighter but don't pass down Mercenary, and thus the daughter won't have access to this.

It's OK to drop off weaponfaire for tactical reasons.

But how about Kjelle? Noire still has a Lifetaker to occupy the slot, what should we fill Kjelle's slot with?

All+2 is always a viable filler skill. Donnel gives Armsthrift, so if it's your cup of tea than it's an option too. Kjelle also gets Deliverer, which is another skill that falls into the category of not required but often helpful. You could even run double Faires as a Paladin just for fun, though it would probably be more effective to use just Lancefaire and Axebreaker (or Swordfaire and Lancebreaker).

Edited February 11, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[irma_gedden]

This pairing has no real tactical advantage, but one of my favorite pairings that I put together was Virion/Miriel. It felt like I was putting Amy Fowler with Don Juan and that made me happy. I liked their ending thing too. It said that Miriel's inventions and general scientific acclaim helped pull Virion's name (and wealth) out of he gutter. I

[metalsnowman3]

General skill passdown rules: Mothers with Galeforce and male children should always pass down Galeforce. Panne should pass down Swordbreaker if she's not marrying someone with Wyvern Rider, but she is so it doesn't matter. Maribelle and Miriel should pass down DS+, though it's not very important. All other mothers don't matter, just pass down whatever is convenient (usually your best training skill, so things like Sol, Veteran, and *Faire are strong options).

Quick correction: I assume you mean Cherche, since Maribelle can pass down galeforce.

[tuvarkz]

Cherche should still pass down Deliverer. It gives overall more utility tbh.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Quick correction: I assume you mean Cherche, since Maribelle can pass down galeforce.

I do, yes. Sorry about that.

Cherche should still pass down Deliverer. It gives overall more utility tbh.

And it's also a skill Gerome can get on his own. In minmax, always pass down skills that the children can't get themselves, if possible.

[MelonGx]

Trying to conclude the general overview of parents. Maybe it had been already done in older posts.....

General overview of mothers and children:

Lissa/Owain, Olivia/Inigo: Need Luna/Vengeance from father.

Maribelle/Brady, Sumia/Cynthia, Cordelia/Severa, Panne/Yarne, Miriel/Laurent: Don't care about father unless you're sticking to some optional skills, such as Armsthrift, Vantage, Lancebreaker, etc.

Sully/Kjelle, Tharja/Noire: Need Pegasus Knight class from father.

Cherche/Gerome: Need Berserker/Sniper class from father.

Nowi/Nah: Need BOTH Luna/Vengeance and Pegasus Knight class from father.

Gerenal overview of fathers:

Chrom: Slightly high mods & Luna. Good for every child except Kjelle.

Frederick: Good physical mods, Pavise + Aegis, Lancebreaker & Luna, but too bad for his SPD. Not so good for physical children who lack Luna, but very good for making Dual Strikers.

Virion: Good SKL & SPD, Tomefaire, Lancebreaker, but lacks indispensible skills to provide. Good for children don't care about father.

Vaike: Best STR, good SKL SPD mods. Berserker to son & AT, Luna to daughter. Good for making Dual Strikers.

Stahl: Good STR SKL mods, Vantage & Luna. Good for physical children who lack Luna.

Kellam: Good physical, neutral magical mods, Tomefaire & Luna, but SPD sucks. Same comment as Frederick.

Lon'qu: Best SKL & SPD, Vantage, Lancebreaker, but lacks indispensible skills to provide. Same comment as Virion.

Ricken: Best MEG mod, Tomefaire & Luna. The only negative STR. Good for magical children who lack Luna.

Gaius: Good STR SKL SPD mods, Vantage & Pegasus Knight to daughter. He should pair up with Sully or Tharja. For Sully, Vantage is wasted but Kjelle gets insane SKL SPD. For Tharja, V+V is available on Noire.

Gregor: Good STR SKL mods, AT, Vantage & Berserker to son. Good for making Dual Strikers or giving AT, Vantage to anyone doesn't care about father.

Libra: Good MEG mod, Tomefaire & Vengeance. Good for magical children who lack Vengeance.

Henry: Good STR, MEG, SKL mods & Berserker to son, Vengeance. Good for everyone except Tharja.

Donnel: AT & Pegasus Knight to daughter, but bad SKL SPD mods. He should pair up with Sully or Tharja. For Sully, Kjelle has a little bit worse SKL SPD but still positive. For Tharja, Noire's Double Bow is able to be thrifted but no Vantage to perform V+V.

Edited February 25, 2014 by MelonGx

[tuvarkz]

Uhh, Gerome does NOT need Sniper. Sniper only works with Luna/Ignis AND Galeforce on the Sniper, plus a +2 spd mod at minimum. Technically for the second group you'll want the fathers not to have mods that go against the natural ones, and either Luna or Astra are good on Severa.

No father provides Luna/Veng AND Galeforce at the same time, though. Vaike provides Luna, Gaius provides Galeforce, and that's it.

Also, Virion is at most a low-level filler parent for anyone.

Sully should ONLY be paired with Donnel for optimal results, Gaius works best on Tharja or Nowi (Especially because this way Kjelle can go for a deadly Astra/Luna/AT/Galeforce setup).

Lon'qu provides Astra as an offensive skill. Breaker skills ain't that good either.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Uhh, Gerome does NOT need Sniper. Sniper only works with Luna/Ignis AND Galeforce on the Sniper, plus a +2 spd mod at minimum. Technically for the second group you'll want the fathers not to have mods that go against the natural ones, and either Luna or Astra are good on Severa.

No father provides Luna/Veng AND Galeforce at the same time, though. Vaike provides Luna, Gaius provides Galeforce, and that's it.

Also, Virion is at most a low-level filler parent for anyone.

Sully should ONLY be paired with Donnel for optimal results, Gaius works best on Tharja or Nowi (Especially because this way Kjelle can go for a deadly Astra/Luna/AT/Galeforce setup).

Lon'qu provides Astra as an offensive skill. Breaker skills ain't that good either.

Sniper on Gerome is for Hit+20. Any support Berserker likes it, though Gerome already has Swordbreaker so it's not much of an issue.

Astra is either useless or a liability. It doesn't activate enough to be reliable without stacking it with another proc (that will usually do more damage), and against a Counter enemy it can randomly drop the damage output on your first attack and get you killed by more Counter damage.

Avatar provides Sorc, GK and DF, which is why he's sometimes recommended with Nowi (if you're going for 2nd Gen Morgan). As a note, Nah makes a better support than lead, so she should focus on Faires and support classes.

I wouldn't call any setup including Astra and AT deadly. AT is a skill to make preparation faster and a nice convenience when you have nothing more important to do, but it doesn't make things dead. Astra might make you dead, though...

[CoolCoolCool]

Maybe sniper is for enhanced dual strike rate, just run breaker if you want accuracy. Compare say Stahl!Gerome Sniper and Gregor!Gerome Berserker paired with Sniper Gaius!Noire. S!G can hit very close to 100% dual strike (99.25% potentially) although the lead unit loses 2 strength and 5 speed and the support loses 11 strength. G!G hits much harder but only has 94.5% dual strike. I'd still take berserker though.

Edited February 25, 2014 by CoolCoolCool

[Airship Canon]

Sniper on Gerome is for Hit+20. Any support Berserker likes it, though Gerome already has Swordbreaker so it's not much of an issue.

Astra is either useless or a liability. It doesn't activate enough to be reliable without stacking it with another proc (that will usually do more damage), and against a Counter enemy it can randomly drop the damage output on your first attack and get you killed by more Counter damage.

Avatar provides Sorc, GK and DF, which is why he's sometimes recommended with Nowi (if you're going for 2nd Gen Morgan). As a note, Nah makes a better support than lead, so she should focus on Faires and support classes.

I wouldn't call any setup including Astra and AT deadly. AT is a skill to make preparation faster and a nice convenience when you have nothing more important to do, but it doesn't make things dead. Astra might make you dead, though...

Astra is a solid second proc, depending on amount of offense you're swinging around.

If you've got 33% more ATK than they have DEF/RES, Astra > Luna. It's not worth using over other procs as a secondary because it's proc rate is low and it doesn't carry the wallop that Aether does.

But if you've got neither Aether nor Ignis, and you have both Astra and Luna... why not?

So while it's not something you optimize for, it's not bad.

[A note, the only one who'd likely make use of an Astra/Luna kit is Kjelle or Noire. Boys are either Hard Supports, VV, or are locked to the Gale/Faire/Agg/Limit/Proc kit. Nah could do it if given Stahl as a Father, but she's better as a Hard Support or is locked to only striking once. Severa is better off with Vengeance as a consistent proc [although, Stahl!Severa could run it], Lucina has Aether, Cynthia has Aether/Ignis if she's getting a dual-proc kit, (Or she got Gaius)]

Edited February 26, 2014 by Airship Canon

[tuvarkz]

Sniper on Gerome is for Hit+20. Any support Berserker likes it, though Gerome already has Swordbreaker so it's not much of an issue.

Astra is either useless or a liability. It doesn't activate enough to be reliable without stacking it with another proc (that will usually do more damage), and against a Counter enemy it can randomly drop the damage output on your first attack and get you killed by more Counter damage.

Avatar provides Sorc, GK and DF, which is why he's sometimes recommended with Nowi (if you're going for 2nd Gen Morgan). As a note, Nah makes a better support than lead, so she should focus on Faires and support classes.

I wouldn't call any setup including Astra and AT deadly. AT is a skill to make preparation faster and a nice convenience when you have nothing more important to do, but it doesn't make things dead. Astra might make you dead, though...

No need to worry bout Astra killing you when using Bows though.

[MelonGx]

Actually why I mentioned Sniper on Gerome was for the Bowfaire on Warrior.

For the 100% Dual Strike without Chrom/Lucina, not only Sniper, but also Assassin (or even Hero with insane SKL mod) can provide that.

If not caring about weaponfaires, there are many choices to learn Assassin for every Dual Strikers.

Edited February 26, 2014 by MelonGx

[StitchKittehCX]

Oh wow, what a great idea. I was wondering if anyone would actually get to this.

So I actually do have a question about Laurent. If his father's Kellam and his mother's Miriel, what would be best for him? Support or front? And should I make his final class Sage or Dark Knight?

And out of these three children, Yarne, Gerome and Laurent, who are some of their better fathers?

Well, I pair Laurent up with Kjelle and usually make him a dark night for more Movement coverage plus swords.

For The Fathers:

Yarne: Virion

Gerome: Lon'qu

Laurent: Stahl

Hope that helps.

[Nesquik97]

So I've decided to restart Awakening again, since the last time I kind of got tired of grinding with reeking boxes - so I've now bought all the DLCs, but instead of continuing my old file, I've decided to restart from the beginning.

As for my pairings, I've been reading through this thread and have come up with a list, based on the tips you guys have given in this thread, with some changes. I was wondering what you guys think of them:

Chrom x Olivia (Because great Owain and Lucy, and I went Sumia in the past and want something new)
Lissa x MU (Because I want a physical Owain, I just can't bring it past myself to take away his sword-hand, and who's better at balance than MU?! I was thinking +Skill/-Luck, but not sure)
Sully x Donnel (Basic pairing for her)
Maribelle x Lon'qu (Because their supports are supposed to be quite nice and since Brady already has Luna and Galeforce, he can take Lon'qu, who doesn't give much)
Sumia x Henry (Standard for her if not with Chrom)
Cordelia x Vaike (Because I've read that this makes an interesting Severa, who might be a bit worse than Stahl, but not by much)
Cherche x Stahl (Because good Gerome)
Panne x Frederick (Yarne doesn't need much except mods, and that Frederick gives decently)
Miriel x Gregor (VV for Laurent)
Tharja x Gaius (Standard for her)
Nowi x Kellam (I don't actually care for Nah that much, so for all I care she can be a single benchwarmer)

Now, a few criterions that are unchangeable are physical!Owain and 2nd Gen Morgan, and another very important one is Maribelle x Lon'qu, but that could be changed if it messes up my team too much. So what do you guys think about it all?

I was also wondering if somebody could explain some of the "theory-crafting" - as far as I know, you either want two units with GF and Luna, or a GF-Luna and a VV, except for Gerome and Yarne, who can go with a GF-Luna as well. But what classes are best for what roll, and what skills other than GF-Luna/VV+LB should I put on my units? I'm guessing -faires?

Thanks a lot!

Edited March 3, 2014 by Nesquik97

[MelonGx]

Def flaw is always recommended unless you're going no grind. Lck flaw costs your Owain's Str and Mag.

Switch Gregor and Stahl to Gregor!Gerome and Stahl!Laurent for giving Gerome a Berserker which has more output than Warrior!Gerome, unless you really want Laurent to have the Armsthrift.

Edited March 3, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

As a general rule, Geromes that have Berserker are good and ones without aren't. Stahl!Gerome doesn't even have Vengeance. I suppose he could be a Bowfaire Warrior, but Berserkers are just better (+Spd instead of +Def).

If you want to make Owain physical, your concern should be his mods instead of his classes, so Avatar needs to be +Str. Of course, you could always do Ricken!Owain, make him a Dark Knight/Dread Fighter and give him a Levin Sword...

In general, minmax teams use either seven total pairs (Avatar and 13 children), five of which have one Galeforce unit and two of which have two Galeforce units, or six total pairs (Avatar and one child, or two children get left out), three of which have one Galeforce and three of which have two. Everyone with Galeforce should try to have at least one offensive proc (Ignis, Aether, Luna, or Vengeance), possibly stacking Ignis/Aether and Luna, and everyone without Galeforce should either be dedicated support (stuff to boost Atk and Hit) or VV. All non-VV boys, especially Galeforce ones, should have Aggressor. Obviously these are just general guidelines and don't matter if you know what you're doing.

[Airship Canon]

A thought on Nah, Inigo, and the 7/2, 7/3 arrangements.

(Or, Inigo, you're now under constant threat of CHOMP CHOMP, because I'd rather have a slightly better team then care about your chauvinistic arse)

The arrangements that have higher yield for MaMU and FeMU are the ones that use the full field of kids [13+MU] instead of one kid and MU getting or 1 pair getting left out, respectively.

Since this, for FeMU is not usuable if FeMU marries Chrom that means Morgan has access to his most ideal marriage partner, Lucina. Obviously Morgan gets priority in picking partners. Nah, sucks to be you, because you have nothing that Morgan actually wants- neither Dual Strike+ nor Galeforce, and Lucina has both of those.

However, ignoring Morgan because he only matters should we be working with FeMU, Nah's getting priority, BECAUSE she lacks Galeforce.

In order to actually use the full arrangement, Nah needs to be paired with a Galeboy.

However, it's a (potentially) notable thing that Vaike!Nah is likely the best Support Nah. Why? He passes both Axefaire and a 50 STR class [General] to her, in addition to a +5 STR Mod. This actually has better output than a magic support. Mostly. [i'm not -too- sure, and would have to crunch a few more numbers. Of course, this whole post is pointless if Virion!Nah actually IS better than Vaike!Nah at support.]

The trick then is that since we don't want totally waste her Pair Up bonus [the +5 DEF drops STRAIGHT INTO A DUMP STAT.] she'd have to have a PHYSICAL Husband. [As so the +3 STR isn't wasted].

There in lies the issue:

The Galeboys:

Owain: He's Magic. You can flail your arms around trying to make him use that Swordhand, but in the end of the day, the best physical mods he'll ever touch is a measly +3 STR. The swordhand sucks, Owain, let your Tomehand hunger instead.

Brady: He's, you guessed it. Magic.

Leaving us with... Inigo: He's... Neutral.

Inigo can, unlike the other two [Again, we're not talking about Morgan, for the reasons of: 1. Not omni-present, 2. Not taking Nah.], be physical, and often times IS. [You see a lot more Chrom!Inigo and Stahl!Inigo than you do Ricken!Inigo or Libra!Inigo]

This means, of the potential partners that Nah could take for the arrangement, Nah's best... is in fact, Inigo, since her Pair Up Bonus isn't wasted entirely.

[Of course, I'm getting a feeling that Virion!Nah may in fact be a thing.]

Edited March 3, 2014 by Airship Canon

[MelonGx]

Virion!Nah @ Sniper: 43+5/50/41 -> 72(89)/74/65 (+8/+8/0) (natural -> LB,All+2,Rallies,Tonics)

Kellam!Nah @ Assassin: 43/49/43 -> 67(84)/73/67 (+7/+7/+9)

Kellam!Nah @ General: 53/42/32 -> 77(95)/66/56 (+8/0/0)

*Vaike!Nah @ General: 55+5/42/35 -> 84(102)/66/59 (+8/0/0)

Virion!Nah @ Sage: 48+5/45/43 -> 77(88)/69/67 (+9/+7/0)

Kellam!Nah @ Sage: 48+5/44/39 -> 77(88)/68/63 (+9/+7/0)

*Vaike!Nah @ Sage: 46+5/44/42 -> 75(86)/68/66 (+9/+7/0)

So for DualStrike% supporting, Virion!Nah is definitely better.

But I don't know whether Virion!Nah is good enough for EP tanking since Kellam!Nah has a 5-Def advantage.

Edited March 3, 2014 by MelonGx