Gaia Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I also like pairing Panne with Lon'qu (gameplay wise, not just for my head canon), so unless that is bad I would rather not change that around but if it is I am very open to any and all suggestions. Yeah, that's not that great. Lon'qu passes mods fitting of a lead (+Skl/Spd), and Yarne is hard support, no matter what. It's best to pass him Fred. It'd probably be best for you to pass Lon'qu to Laurent instead. Trying to keep it as close to the original as possible, but still optimizing, I'd probably go: Chrom x Olivia = Same MU (+SPD -LCK) x Lucina = Same Sumia x Henry = Same Cordelia x Stahl = Same Lissa x Gregor (Ricken?) = Lissa x Ricken Maribelle x Libra = Same Sully x Donnel = Same Tharja x Gaius = Same Nowi x Vaike = Nowi x Gregor Cherche x Fred = Cherche x Vaike Panne x Lon'qu = Panne x Fred Miriel x Ricken (Gregor?) = Miriel x Lon'qu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dims Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Stuff Alright I see your reasoning. Why switch Nowi with Gregor? You would get a suboptimal Nah. I also thought Gregor!Laurent > Lon´qu!Laurent. Also I guess physical Owain is out of the question when min maxing then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Alright I see your reasoning. Why switch Nowi with Gregor? You would get a suboptimal Nah. I also thought Gregor!Laurent > Lon´qu!Laurent. Also I guess physical Owain is out of the question when min maxing then. Yes, but because Gerome makes an overall better unit than Nah does, I'd rather give him the better parent. As for Gregor!Laurent, Gregor has a -1 Mag mod that I'm not too happy with. And like I said, Nah needs Gregor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dims Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Yes, but because Gerome makes an overall better unit than Nah does, I'd rather give him the better parent. As for Gregor!Laurent, Gregor has a -1 Mag mod that I'm not too happy with. And like I said, Nah needs Gregor. Right. But if I insisted on Vaike!Nah for a more spread out balanced team what would you then switch around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terff Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Cherche + Frederick - Huge Nope. Fred doesn't pass 'Zerker, or the mods for support. Far better with Vaike or Gregor. My idea with this was to make Gerome a dread fighter support unit, currently out of the units I have that can pass down cavalier/knight (for dual guard +) are stahl vaike and frederick (and ricken but he has better places to be). Out of those Frederick gives the best support mods (2 skl, 5 def and -1 res) with those mods, if Dread Fighter Gerome has an S rank with a Sage (picked a random class) +Spd-Luk Olivia!Lucina!Morgan, his physical dual guard rate is around 45 and his magic dual guard rate is probably about 52% and his dual strike rate would be about 90%, not bad if you ask me. Stahl however would provide sword faire for more dual strike power. Edited April 19, 2014 by terff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Right. But if I insisted on Vaike!Nah for a more spread out balanced team what would you then switch around? Just switch around Nah and Gerome, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dims Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Just switch around Nah and Gerome, then. Thanks! ^^ I'll take everything into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) My idea with this was to make Gerome a dread fighter support unit, currently out of the units I have that can pass down cavalier/knight (for dual guard +) are stahl vaike and frederick (and ricken but he has better places to be). Out of those Frederick gives the best support mods (2 skl, 5 def and -1 res) with those mods, if Dread Fighter Gerome has an S rank with a Sage (picked a random class) +Spd-Luk Olivia!Lucina!Morgan, his physical dual guard rate is around 45 and his magic dual guard rate is probably about 52% and his dual strike rate would be about 90%, not bad if you ask me. Stahl however would provide sword faire for more dual strike power. Dual Guard+ is a weak skill- it's 10% to an unreliable, and being straightforward, pointless [due to its unreliablity] "stat" Here's a logic test for this: If X reduces damage taken, then: 1. For it to have Value, it must prevent casualties. [the Order of Actions argument (which is centered on Unit Y not taking Z damage so it can continue to fight without staffing) is nil since it's an order of actions] 2. If it is preventing casualties, it must be reliable, else it is a gamble. 2a. Reliable = Works 100% of the time. Dual Guard+ falls into a trap along with all the other defense skills, save for stacking Avoid (which can 0 an enemy's hit) and Vantage (which is kill before being killed): It's... not valuable. You can avoid any and all unit death through positioning and fighting on your terms. Reduction or prevention of non-lethal damage doesn't do...anything. A Unit fights as well at 1HP as they do at 85. You can heal. And a bit more importantly, you can just.... not get attacked. It's not worth optimizing for, ever. [Throwing Luna around is only for Lead units, to which, Galeforce or V/V or bust.] Gerome benefits far more from getting Axefaire and Berserker, which gives him a 50 STR Class, and a Faire. Even if you weren't going to use 'zerk itself, AF is better on him anyway. Edited April 19, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terff Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Ahh I see, so it would be better for him to be an offensive lead, and even better if he has vantage, thats why gregor is great choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Is Kellam!Kjelle a good alternative to Donnel!Kjelle? I going to redo my Lunatic file but I want to know first. Donnel is a pain in the @$$ to level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Ahh I see, so it would be better for him to be an offensive lead, and even better if he has vantage, thats why gregor is great choice... No, he'd be better off being an offensive support. Maximize his base firepower. Dual Guard+ is just... not that good of a skill. Gregor is good because he picks up a 50 STR Class and a -Faire for said class in addition to a +6 Modifier, effectively giving him 61 STR before LB and Rallies on that alone. Is Kellam!Kjelle a good alternative to Donnel!Kjelle? I going to redo my Lunatic file but I want to know first. Donnel is a pain in the @$$ to level. Since Donnel's advantage is Galeforce, and Kellam doesn't give that... No, not really. But then again anything in main game doesn't care. Edited April 19, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 So take Galeforce completely out of this. Would that make Kellam better than Donnel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terff Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Based on what I've been told I've modified my pairings Chrom + Olivia Male MU + Lucina (unsure about this, or should I just stick with this. Noire gives a better speed so does Cynthia and both give a higher mag, but lucina gives aether.) Sumia + Henry Cherche + Gregor Maribelle + Libra Miriel + Lon'Qu Cordelia + Stahl Lissa + Ricken Panne + Frederick Sully + Donnel Nowi + Vaike Tharja + Gaius Edited April 19, 2014 by terff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Based on what I've been told I've modified my pairings Chrom + Olivia Male MU + Lucina (unsure about this, yeah morgan gets aether but the mods are pretty poor for a 3rd gen, so what are your opinions on Noire or Cynthia instead?) Sumia + Henry Cherche + Gregor Maribelle + Libra Miriel + Lon'Qu Cordelia + Stahl Lissa + Ricken Panne + Frederick Sully + Donnel Nowi + Vaike Tharja + Gaius ...Do I need to point out the math on Aether trumping +10 mods again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terff Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) ...Do I need to point out the math on Aether trumping +10 mods again? Heh good point xD Aether it is! Edited April 19, 2014 by terff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terff Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) So take Galeforce completely out of this. Would that make Kellam better than Donnel? About the same or worse, Kellam gives better mods along with the knight line so you can run a Pavise/Aegis/Renewal/LB/(Some filler skill: Luna Deliverer or Miracle) and be an absolutely unbreakable wall of pain, Donnel can do the same but with a lower def mod and without Pavise. But also Donnel can give sol and armsthrift, Sol if you want more recovery or armsthrift for infinite gungnir! Edited April 20, 2014 by terff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 About the same or worse, Kellam gives better mods along with the knight line so you can run a Pavise/Aegis/Renewal/LB/(Some filler skill: Luna Deliverer or Miracle) and be an absolutely unbreakable wall of pain, Donnel can do the same but with a lower def mod and without Pavise. But also Donnel can give sol and armsthrift, Sol if you want more recovery or armsthrift for infinite gungnir!Kellam!Kjelle versus Donnel!Kjelle:Kjelle gets knight naturally, so let's take that out of the equation. Kellam's mods are a bit more suited to keeping Kjelle as a knight/general, but Donnel gives her Armsthrift, Lancefaire, and Sol. Kellam's mods and skills are better for a pure defensive build, but a defensive build is generally worse than an offensive one because you'll never have to really defend yourself if you fight smart and position your units well. Kellam!Kjelle ends up with +1 STR, +/-0 MAG, +4 SKL, +1 SPD, -1 LUK, +3 DEF, and +1 RES. Donnel!Kjelle ends up with +1 STR, -1 MAG, +2 SKL, +2 SPD, +4 LUK, +1 DEF, and +/-0 RES. So Kellam!Kjelle has more defense and more skill for proccing skills like PavGis, whereas Donnel!Kjelle has more offensive power and all around utility (in the form of a +4 luck mod), but Donnel's passed skills are really where Donnel's use lies. Why we aren't taking Galeforks into account is beyond me, but I'd still rate Donnel!Kjelle higher, unless you really want a defensive Kjelle. Also, for what it's worth, Kellam is my second favorite pairing for Sully after Avatar. [/waifuism] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 About the same or worse, Kellam gives better mods along with the knight line so you can run a Pavise/Aegis/Renewal/LB/(Some filler skill: Luna Deliverer or Miracle) and be an absolutely unbreakable wall of pain, Donnel can do the same but with a lower def mod and without Pavise. But also Donnel can give sol and armsthrift, Sol if you want more recovery or armsthrift for infinite gungnir! Kjelle already gets Knight, and Secret Apo (specifically NS) will smoosh your supposedly unbreakable wall into guacamole. So will bad RNG, and I don't like to trust the RNG unless there really is no 100% option. Gradivus > Gungnir. Range-1 non-braves rarely have utility, and Gungnir isn't one of those cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terff Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Kjelle already gets Knight Durr well I completely forgot about that xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeoandReo Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Donnel actually passes the Troubadour class in addition to Merc/Peg, so Kjelle gets access to Valkyrie over Sage, in case you wanted to do that for whatever reason. Gregor!Kjelle (and Vaike!Kjelle to a lesser extent) is literally the same thing as Donnel!Kjelle without Galeforce, so if you wanted to try that and don't mind screwing someone else out of Gregor, you could. I know the we're taking Galeforce out of the equation, but I'd say that it's pretty solid even as a defensive skill, just in a 'kill the guy then get the hell out of there' sort of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) The general consensus is that Gaul Farts is far and away the "best" non-DLC skill, and it's really one of the main reasons DonnelxSully is considered her best pairing, barring a physical MU. Take that away, and Donnel doesn't offer very much special, seeing as his mods kinda sorta contradict Sully's. Kjelle, especially a physical dad!Kjelle, should really stay a physical unit, so Donnel passing Troubadour (why Villager is male-only is beyond me. I guess women aren't allowed to live in villages...?) isn't much use to her aside from a few skills. Merc is nice, though, I suppose. Edited April 21, 2014 by Rollertoaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Vaike offers better mods and some female only classes as well. Plus she gets Merc, so there's that. I'd say Gregor as well, but he passes the Myrmidon, which Sully already has. Since Gaius has better pairing options, Sully is given second fiddle Donnel as her "best". He does give her Counter, tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Donnel gives Merc too. All three of Donnel, Vaike and Gregor do, so it's not really that much of a consideration. The general consensus is that Gaul Farts is far and away the "best" non-DLC skill GF does nothing if you can't KO. That's normally not a problem, but there are situations (mostly Apo challenge runs) when it can be quite difficult/unreliable. If we're going to nominate absolute best skills, DS+ far outranks GF, and Vengeance (100% reliable +42 atk, more than limit/agg/rally combined) is pretty high up there. Not to say GF is a bad skill, it's great, I just don't think it's the best. I find its main draw to be doubling your movement. No amount of sweeping power will give you more turns in the timed sections of Apo, and with so much ground to cover in the last two maps it's kind of handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeoandReo Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Donnel gives Merc too. All three of Donnel, Vaike and Gregor do, so it's not really that much of a consideration. Oh, I know that. I was just responding to the person who was thinking about Donnel!Kjelle without Galeforce. Valkyrie's the other thing he passes of note, and Kjelle could make alright use of it. Although realistically, Kjelle is getting Donnel every time partly because he's terrible anywhere else and partly because it's difficult to make other accommodations without screwing everyone else over if you want Kjelle to get GF any other way. Avatar isn't even a guarantee, and while Gaius works too, Noire really really really wants to get Vantage from him. (Well, Severa/Laurent/lots of people want it too, but Gaius gives Noire GF on top of that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Valkyrie's the other thing he passes of note, and Kjelle could make alright use of it.Ehh... with those mods and growths, Donnel!Kjelle is really best suited to stay physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.