PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well, Lon'qu gives Lucky 7, but that's no good in Apo.

[Bloo]

Would it be possible for Lon'qu!Laurent x Sumia!Lucina to act as a toned down version of the VVDS+ Morgan and Lucina that people use to run through Apo with the minimum amount of characters possible?

Evidently he wouldn't be soloing it, but doesthe same premise apply?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Bloo

[Ownagepuffs]

Would it be possible for Lon'qu!Laurent x Sumia!Lucina to act as a toned down version of the VVDS+ Morgan and Lucina that people use to run through Apo with the minimum amount of characters possible?

Evidently he wouldn't be soloing it, but doesthe same premise apply?

Yes it is possible. At least it should be. LQ!Laurent has the exact same key mod spread as a +Mag/-Def Avatar (+4 Mag/-3 Def) while also having a +5 skill lead over +M/-D Avatar meaning he shouldn't need Skl +2 to hit 100% DS. In the absence of skl+2 you can put Anathema on Laurent himself.

What I am curious about is if Gregor!Laurent can do it. He has +3 Mag and +0 Def but I am curious to see if he can offset his lower magic and higher defense with HP +5 to increase his HP threshold for Vengeance.

Edit: Gregor!Laurent doesn't have HP +5. Silly me.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ownagepuffs

[Bloo]

Yes it is possible. At least it should be. LQ!Laurent has the exact same key mod spread as a +Mag/-Def Avatar (+4 Mag/-3 Def) while also having a +5 skill lead over +M/-D Avatar meaning he shouldn't need Skl +2 to hit 100% DS. In the absence of skl+2 you can put Anathema on Laurent himself.

Alright, thanks.

[Flying Shogi]

Is neither an option? Gerome really needs either Axefaire or Bowfaire to be good. Between Frederick and Lon'qu, it should be possible to free up Stahl for him with minimum losses (iirc, all of Stahl's good pairings can also work with either Frederick or Lon'qu).

If it has to be one of those, Lon'qu is better because he at least gives Swordfaire. Gerome could make a passable Assassin with him.

I plan on having Stahl has Severa's father because she gets Luna that way with a decent Speed mod,something Frederick tanks. While the Skill and Speed mods from Lon'qu are really nice, he doesn't give Luna.

I like my units to have Luna & Armsthrift because I don't feel like forging Brave weaponry after Apotheosis runs, even though I have Golden Gaffe. I'm just a lazy bastard.

Both are bad.

If you have Virion free then Virion because:

Virion!Gerome: Str+4 & Bowfaire Warrior = Str+2 Berserker

Fred!Gerome: Str+6 & No-faire General = Str+1 Berserker

Lon'qu!Gerome: Str+4 & No-faire Warrior = Str-1 Berserker (Lon'qu!Gerome has no hi-Str Sword classes)

Besides that, Virion gives Hit+20 and more consistent accuracy boost skills but Fred gives Outdoor Fighter only & Lon'qu gives none.

Skl 40-44 classes on Dual Strike's support side require hit+20 to reach 90~100% hit to every enemy unit.

Virion is free but he doesn't give any proc skills so I didn't include him. But now that I think about it, I wanted him as a support anyway.

[Ownagepuffs]

I plan on having Stahl has Severa's father because she gets Luna that way with a decent Speed mod,something Frederick tanks. While the Skill and Speed mods from Lon'qu are really nice, he doesn't give Luna.

Severa has Vengeance out of the box, she doesn't need a proc. Lol why is this missed so often.

Vengeance has 100% activation and if you play with your head on straight you won't die.

[Flying Shogi]

Severa has Vengeance out of the box, she doesn't need a proc. Lol why is this missed so often.

Vengeance has 100% activation and if you play with your head on straight you won't die.

Because it requires putting units in danger and and requires Vantage. But I'll bite, in order to get the most out of this, she needs the HP tonic. Then her skills should be: Vengeance, Vantage, and Limit Breaker. These three seem like they're required. Although, If I'm a bit more careful, I might be able to do without Vantage. That leaves 2 skills but I'll start with the safer option. I want Armsthrift so I think it'll be between Swordfaire or Deliverer for the last slot.

This brings me to my follow up question, Who will be her pair up partner? I usually pair her with Paladin Donnel!Kjelle because the pair up bonuses are nice. I know it's better if it's a guy so it'll increase her DS chance but I haven't figured out who the guy will be.

[Czar_Yoshi]

What I am curious about is if Gregor!Laurent can do it. He has +3 Mag and +0 Def but I am curious to see if he can offset his lower magic and higher defense with HP +5 to increase his HP threshold for Vengeance.

Edit: Gregor!Laurent doesn't have HP +5. Silly me.

Even if he has HP+5, it would be far more effective to just use an offensive skill to increase damage output. HP+5 to Vengeance units is essentially just Mag+2.

Because it requires putting units in danger and and requires Vantage.

No, it doesn't.

First, being in danger and taking damage are very different things. You're in danger when you have a chance of dying due to bad RNG, and it's possible to take attacks without having a chance of dying.

Second, Vantage is only useful when you're guaranteed to kill the enemy as a result. If you lack 100% DS, this is very unlikely, so trying to do VV with any Severa will be very unsafe.

What Vengeance Severa should be doing is going in with full HP, taking a hit if she fails to KO the enemy before they attack, and using the Vengeance boost to make sure she kills it on her next two swings, then heading to safety, getting healed, and doing the same thing again next turn. She's also a good candidate for leaving in Boss range on EP, allowing them to smack her, and then retaliating with four Vengeance hits (this is especially useful on challenge runs, and is one of the best ways of getting rid of Thronie).

Stahl!Severa should usually stick with Luna, Lon'qu!Severa and Virion!Severa are the big Vengeance users. They're pretty much always Wyvern Lords with LB/GF/LF/Vengeance/All+2, paired with a Berserker.

Anyway, Berserker Gerome tends to be Severa's best husband, but since you're not using him Yarne will do instead.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Flying Shogi]

Second, Vantage is only useful when you're guaranteed to kill the enemy as a result. If you lack 100% DS, this is very unlikely, so trying to do VV with any Severa will be very unsafe.

Personally, I don't know if it's just me but I get the 6 hits on enemies a good portion of the time . I understand the importance of 100% DS but having units at A support has worked out very well for me and S rank support will only do better.

[MelonGx]

Personally, I don't know if it's just me but I get the 6 hits on enemies a good portion of the time . I understand the importance of 100% DS but having units at A support has worked out very well for me and S rank support will only do better.

It's too personally to make a conclusion.

Let's do the math.

VVDS+ tanking fails on following events:

NoDS + NoDS

NoDS + DS

DS + NoDS

So the probability of failure is NoDS%^2 + 2*NoDS% = (1-DS%)^2 + 2*(1-DS%).

Supposed that A support's DS% = 85%.

Then the probability of failure = [(1-0.85)^2+2*(1-0.85)]*100% = 32.25%

[Czar_Yoshi]

"A good portion of the time" is fine when success means you kill the enemy with full HP, and failure means you kill the enemy but take a hit and one of your staffbots has to waste a turn with Recover/Fortify. It's definitely not fine when success means you kill your enemy and failure means you take a hit and die.

By the way... That calculation is slightly off. It should be a 27.75% failure rate.

[Zoran]

I'm trying to make a post-game team with as many VV/100%DS pairs as possible. My pairings so far are the following:

1. +SKL/-DEF Avatar (Hero) x Lon'qu!Severa (Assassin): 74 + 86 Skill

Avatar: Swordfaire, Aggressor, All Stats +2, Strength +2. 100% Hit on everyone except Anna.

Severa: Galeforce, Vengeance, Vantage, All Stats +2. 100% Hit on everyone.

[Note: I'm omitting Limit Breaker from all skill lists.]

This is my only physical VV pair. Sadly, Dark Flier Severa with Sniper support misses the 160 Skill mark by three points. These two can six-hit everything in the game on player phase and will do the same to all but the 64 DEF/55 RES Berserkers on enemy phase. Exclusively 1 or 2 range enemy phase is kind of depressing, but it still works. Swords over Axes on Avatar for the extra accuracy.

2. Gregor!Yarne (Hero) x Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan (Sage): 75 + 85 Skill

Yarne: Swordfaire, Aggressor, All Stats +2, Lancebreaker. 100% Hit on everyone.

Morgan: Galeforce, Vengeance, Vantage, All Stats +2. 100% Hit on everyone.

One of the only pairs that can reach 160 Skill with a magical lead, thanks to Morgan's +10 Skl mod. Again, Swords over Axes for accuracy. On paper, this pair looks really great: perfect hit (Morgan in the lead has a hilarious 280), 1-2 range, and 6-hits everything on enemy phase except the 64 DEF/55 RES Berserkers, who die on player phase.

3. Maribelle!Lucina (Sage) x Libra!Inigo (Sage)

Lucina: Tomefaire, All Stats +2, Magic +2, Dual Strike+. 244 Hit.

Inigo: Galeforce, Vengeance, Vantage, Resistance +10. 100% Hit on everyone.

The other magical pair; hard-support Lucina and Inigo can six-hit literally every enemy in the game on enemy phase. The only disappointing thing about this pairing is that Maribelle is a pretty terrible combat unit for Chrom to support. (Sumia!Lucina loses 4 Magic, and just two is enough to miss the six-hit on Thronie.)

With this setup, Inigo is immune to the Mire Dark Fliers. However, Lucina gets only 96 listed Hit on Throne Berserker and 87 on Throne Anna. Against Thronie, she needs to hit all four strikes, which has probability 98.88%. For Anna, she only needs to hit twice, which happens 99.98% of the time. I could run Anathema over Res +10 to fix this problem, but I like my chances.

I need some advice for the rest of my team. Some of the fathers are obvious:

Henry!Cynthia

Donnel!Kjelle

Gaius!Noire

Chrom!Brady (duh.)

As for the rest, that's a bit up in the air.

Gerome will end up as hard physical support. Since Gregor is taken, this leaves him three options: Virion or Stahl for Bowfaire Warrior, or Vaike for Berserker. Vaike!Gerome has terrible Hit, which is a bit off-putting.

Gerome wants to support a physical girl, meaning either Kjelle or Noire. Noire gets Sniper, so she could become a 75 speed Longbow Sniper with Berserker support or a 75 speed Bowfaire Assassin with Warrior support. Do either of those seem like a good idea? Kjelle is worse at magic than Noire, but she can only get Swordfaire and Lancefaire.

I like the idea of putting Vaike on Nah for a good physical hard support who happens to also get Armsthrift for convenience, but there are no naturally physical Galeboys available for her to support. (I could have had Lucina pair with Owain, but Lucina x Owain is squicky. Or I could stick Lucina on Laurent, but then I don't get Galeforce in the lead.) So I'm thinking I should go Sage support with Nah and make her father Ricken, Kellam, or Virion.

Since Laurent doesn't have Lucina, he's magical hard support, meaning he wants Ricken, Kellam, or Virion.

Owain really wants Luna. I could make him into a physical unit with Frederick or Stahl to be supported by Vaike!Nah, but that wastes Lissa's mods. If Owain stays magical, he still wants a father with Luna and non-negative Mag and Spd, which means Ricken.

After picking the fathers, I need some help with the pairings as well.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Zoran

[MelonGx]

It could be

Stahl!Gerome x Noire (Hero x Sniper)

Vaike!Nah x Brady (Sage x Sage or Assassin x Sniper)

Ricken!Owain x Cynthia (Sage x Sage/DF)

Virion!Laurent x Kjelle (Sage/Sniper x Bride)

Edited July 16, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

Just saying, but a) physical VV is bad due to no 1-2 range Braves, and b) there are far more uses for 100% DS than VV. If you forget about VV you'll also be able to make more 100% DS pairings. VV also only needs one pair who can do it to reach it's full potential, any more usually become a headache to set up with sharply diminishing returns.

Melon's suggestions should work, though Nah and Brady will probably perform better as pure Magical- if Laurent can take someone else, put Virion on Nah.

Actually, try this: Stahl!Gerome x Noire, Virion!Nah x Brady, Ricken!Owain x Kjelle, and Kellam!Laurent x Cynthia. That way, Laurent and Kjelle's pairup boosts won't be wasted (though Owain's will be).

[MelonGx]

Ricken!Owain needs all the Spd+8 bonus, All+2 and Spd tonic to reach 75 but Paladin/Bride/Valkyrie only serve Spd+7. This forces Kjelle to be Hero / Assassin / DF.

Physical support for 100% DS isn't bad. But to be noticed that only the basic Str 45+ classes' power aren't inferior to Dark Flier.

Edited July 16, 2014 by MelonGx

[Bloo]

So I have all these pairings so far which I'm pretty happy with. However, I've not really got any idea what to do with Kjelle. She was always the one going to be left out (because she's my least favourite) but I still want to put her to use. Available fathers are in the middle. I was thinking maybe a staffbot of some kind with Libra as the father, but I'm not sure.

Critique on my pairings could be used as well.

Sorry for the giant image. :cc

Edited July 16, 2014 by Bloo

[Ownagepuffs]

Gaius would be better on Kjelle than Nah. If you don't want to put Gaius on Kjelle, go with Vaike.

How do you do one of those fancy pairing charts? I need to make one myself.

I see you have Ricken!Inigo. Niiiice. Really underrated Inigo. That's pretty much it.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Ownagepuffs

[GinRei]

Agreed, that's a really nice pairing chart. Makes it really easy to visualize end game pairings and such.

Also, been a long time since I last looked into actual pairings beyond those involving the Avatar. Are there soft caps to try to hit for speed, skill, strength/magic, etc for Apotheosis and/or Futures Past?

Edited July 16, 2014 by GinRei

[Bloo]

Gaius would be better on Kjelle than Nah. If you don't want to put Gaius on Kjelle, go with Vaike.

How do you do one of those fancy pairing charts? I need to make one myself.

I see you have Ricken!Inigo. Niiiice. Really underrated Inigo. That's pretty much it.

Google Fire Emblem Awakening Shipping Chart. It's a download from a tumblr page I think, I unfortunatley can't remember exactly where from. It's really useful though. You just put the characters in the slots by using a program like GIMP or photoshop.

I wasn't planning on marrying Kjelle to anyone, so I don't want to 'waste' Gaius on Kjelle. It would be a waste because Gaius!Nah is best Nah.

Also Ricken!Inigo is best Magical support Inigo. Libra can suck it. ;3

Agreed, that's a really nice pairing chart. Makes it really easy to visualize end game pairings and such.

Also, been a long time since I last looked into actual pairings beyond those involving the Avatar. Are there soft caps to try to hit for speed, skill, strength/magic, etc for Apotheosis and/or Futures Past?

I looked for it after the word documents with just lists trying to remember everyone got annoying.

75 Speed to double everything in the game (including Throne Anna).

131 Hit (I think) to achieve a 100% hit on absolutely every enemy.

Both of those have to be achieved with Pair Ups/Rallies/Tonics etc.

Virion!Severa/Lon'qu!Severa as a Wyvern Lord is generally the one used to hit the 75 speed threshold.

[GinRei]

Good to know, especially for Severa. I was torn between Lon'qu (her father in my first play through) or Stahl (her father in my second and third play throughs), so that makes things easier.

Also, found the link you were talking about: http://redtroubadour.tumblr.com/post/44666779689/i-noticed-a-lot-of-my-friends-playing-fire-emblem

[Czar_Yoshi]

257 Hit to have 100% on everything (before Weapon Triangle), 249 Avo to dodge everything that isn't Hawkeye, 75 Spd to double everything, 69 Spd to double everything but Anna and the two Nightmare Snipers, 74 Res to be tinked by Mire, 160 Skl between two units for 100% DS (or 120 with DS+). Def thresholds usually don't matter.

Missing that 75 Spd threshold isn't usually too big of a deal as long as you have at least 3 pairs who hit it, just try not to go under 69 Spd. 100% DS isn't too hard to hit, so don't worry if you can't get more than one (if you can only get one, try for 75 Spd on it too). Hit can be a little lower if you lure Anna off her Throne before attacking her. Avo is mostly a gimmick, but can be useful for the Nightmare Snipers. Res doesn't matter if you have enough Staffbots/are willing to take a little damage approaching the Dark Fliers in Wave 4.

Those pairs are mostly good, but maybe swap Gregor for Libra?

[Ownagepuffs]

Those pairs are mostly good, but maybe swap Gregor for Libra?

Gregor still gives Brady Astra access for Astra/Luna proc stack so I think it's fine. There's a 2 Mag difference between Gregor and Libra for Brady so Brady isn't missing much. Unless I'm missing something here?

[GinRei]

Is 100% DS really not that difficult to hit? Looks like it'd be difficult for anyone but Lucina/her partner or Chrom/his wife (Olivia in my current file, so likely not this pair) to obtain. Estimating around 34% or so from Skill after Rallying, then 60% for an S rank, which would leave anyone but Lucina 6% off, wouldn't it? Once I finish understanding this stuff, I'll have to formulate my pairings.

[Bloo]

I like AT so that kinda puts its mind into my pairings.

Gregor also gives Vantage, for what that's worth (not much without Vengeance, I know.)

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gregor still gives Brady Astra access for Astra/Luna proc stack so I think it's fine. There's a 2 Mag difference between Gregor and Libra for Brady so Brady isn't missing much. Unless I'm missing something here?

Well, the main thing is that Brady doesn't have room in his skillset- he's packing LB/GF/Agg/TF/Luna and Sage just from Maribelle, and the only potentially beneficial skill that would be worth swapping one of those for is Vengeance over Luna. You can try to replace TF or something with Astra, but damage calcs show that TF is not only vastly superior but has perfect reliability to boot.

Is 100% DS really not that difficult to hit? Looks like it'd be difficult for anyone but Lucina/her partner or Chrom/his wife (Olivia in my current file, so likely not this pair) to obtain. Estimating around 34% or so from Skill after Rallying, then 60% for an S rank, which would leave anyone but Lucina 6% off, wouldn't it? Once I finish understanding this stuff, I'll have to formulate my pairings.

It's only "not that difficult" if a pair is both built around it and has pairing priority (meaning you pair them up first and then sort out your other units when planning). It generally requires lots of Snipers and some Assassins/Heroes, along with high Skl mods on both units (you need an average of 80 Skl, so...) and All+2 or even Skl+2 if your mods aren't high enough. It's worth it, though.

I like AT so that kinda puts its mind into my pairings. Gregor also gives Vantage, for what that's worth (not much without Vengeance, I know.)

If AT on children is desired, that's fine (I like it), but you're going to have to sacrifice some legitimately good skills- most likely Tomefaire or Luna- to make it work. And actually 100% DS is a much more important prerequisite for save Vantage use than Vengeance is.