Czar_Yoshi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) I do have my team of children that I prepared thanks to your help about 20 pages ago, but I still feel like it isn't enough. I've forged 50 of each Brave Weapons, including Celica's Gales, gotten all necessary skills(?), got some Rescuebots. Maybe I should train one Rallybot and use Katarina as the other one for Secret. You might want to just get two fully trained Rallybots now. Katarina can also be used (and might be better off as) a Staffbot since she can do double duty with Mire. Looks like I got a plan. I think your odds of killing him will actually be slightly more than that, because you'll be challenging him on EP (so he doesn't heal with Nos). With Venegance active you're 3HKOing him (plus a fourth for Miracle) so unless a DG occurs you can just paste him on PP regardless of what Yarne does. If it does occur, you'll just have to back up 6 tiles and try again next EP- he'll fully heal but it won't matter. As long as you have room to kite him, you should never have a chance of death. What will be more problematic is on Wave 5, when there are two of them and only one Severa. The first thing I can think of is Rescuing her over to one, killing both mooks with GF, Rescuing her back to the edge of his range and healing her appropriately, but that'll take 3 staffbots just for her first turn... The one healing her could do double duty with Fortify, but it'll be tight. Turn limits are always my worst enemy when trying to do Apo challenge runs. Speaking of turn limits, I reached Secret Apo with just two units the other day. It's probably not possible to do a duo, but if it is, that's one hurdle cleared... Edited August 4, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) You might want to just get two fully trained Rallybots now. Katarina can also be used (and might be better off as) a Staffbot since she can do double duty with Mire. I think your odds of killing him will actually be slightly more than that, because you'll be challenging him on EP (so he doesn't heal with Nos). With Venegance active you're 3HKOing him (plus a fourth for Miracle) so unless a DG occurs you can just paste him on PP regardless of what Yarne does. If it does occur, you'll just have to back up 6 tiles and try again next EP- he'll fully heal but it won't matter. As long as you have room to kite him, you should never have a chance of death. What will be more problematic is on Wave 5, when there are two of them and only one Severa. The first thing I can think of is Rescuing her over to one, killing both mooks with GF, Rescuing her back to the edge of his range and healing her appropriately, but that'll take 3 staffbots just for her first turn... The one healing her could do double duty with Fortify, but it'll be tight. Turn limits are always my worst enemy when trying to do Apo challenge runs. Speaking of turn limits, I reached Secret Apo with just two units the other day. It's probably not possible to do a duo, but if it is, that's one hurdle cleared... The damage was calculated from a full swing 80 -> Dead. The average damage -IS- above 80, so it's sound enough. Dual Guards are about the worst of it. ...Will need the Double Bow for executing them if I don't down them on EP (unless face jump them again... which is viable since 37 isn't -that much- (and Sev's doing ~60 DPS herself)) I'm likely to pull a similar strategy to how I pulled them on the No Limit/Agg/Rally run. "Stratgem: Step on the Carpet". (AKA: Splat left side's adds, set up for Twin zerkers, Kill left sorc, kill twin zerkers, swing down-- wipe snipers, pull right sorcs, kill right sorcs, pull Anna and kill her.) (Or have Laurent pull them with Mire like I had Cynthia do on the Base run) I had a fair deal of turnage for the No Limit/Agg/Rally run. [base class on the other hand was down to the wire] Edited August 4, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 If you need to, you could also force 2-range EP combat by putting Severa on the water- I don't think Sorcs can swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 ...Just going over somethings-- I may be nearing the end of the theorycraft phase. Pairings wise: Gen 1 Robin (+Spd/-Def) x Lucina Chrom x Sumia Sully x Donnel Panne x Frederick Gregor Lissa x Libra Miriel x Gregor Lon'qu Olivia x Stahl Ricken Cherche x Vaike Henry Vaike Maribelle x Ricken Virion Cordelia x Lon'qu Virion Stahl Tharja x Gaius Nowi x Gregor Vaike Henry Gen 2 Lucina x Robin Morgan x Gerome Severa x Yarne Noire x Inigo Cynthia x Owain Kjelle x Brady Laurent x Nah Looks pretty solid as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Do you have any particular plans for Morgan's Spd here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Ik i posted this a couple pages ago, but nobody replied and i want to see if these are the best skills for them. Wyvern Lord Lonqu!Severa!Morgan- Galeforce, Axefaire/Lancefaire, Ignis, Hit+20/Luna, LB Berserker Inigo - Galeforce, Luna, Axefaire, Hit+20, LB Assassin Donnel!Kjelle- Galeforce, Swordfaire, Luna, Deliverer, LB Berserker Frederick!Yarne - Str +2, Axefaire, DG+, LB, Outdoor Fighter Dark Flier Chrom!Cynthia - Galeforce, Aether, Luna, Tomefaire, LB Sage Virion/Libra(didnt get brady yet)Brady - Galeforce, Luna, Tomefaire, Magic +2, LB Dark Flier Sumia!Lucina - Galeforce, Aether, Luna, DS+, LB Sage/Sorc Gregor!Laurent - Tomefaire, DualSupport+, Anathema, LB, Mag+2 OR Armsthrift, Vantage, Vengeance, LB, Tomefaire Sage Ricken!Owain - Galeforce, Luna, Tomefaire, DG+, LB Hero Vaike!Nah - Deliverer, Armsthrift, Axefaire, DG+, LB Sniper Gaius!Noire - Galeforce, Bowfaire, Luna, LB, Skill+2 Berserker Henry!Gerome - Axefaire, DS+, Deliverer, Anathema, LB Hero Lonqu!Severa - Galeforce, Armsthrift, Swordfaire, Astra/Vengeance, LB Berserker MU - DG+, LB, Armsthrift, Axefaire, Hit+20(Dont know what to replace AT with here) Wyvern lord morgan can reach 75 speed, and has high attack. I was thinking with going with Lancefaire and Luna on her since inigo has the axes. Also i didnt really marry and 2nd gen children yet, so if i should switch it up, then tell me to do so. Edited August 4, 2014 by Waifu Severa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Do you have any particular plans for Morgan's Spd here? Replacing Severa as a "You can't hit this" vs Lances Aether, Luna, Avoid+10, Lancebreaker, Gale Hero@ [Mostly Brave Axes, could run Helswath or Ragnell on scenario] 51 Speed +2 (Tonic) +8 (Pair Up): 61 Speed [Vs. 60 Speed on LQ!S Lancekiller (with All+2)] 48 Luck +2 (Tonic) +3 (Pair Up): 53 Luck [Vs. 52 Luck on LQ!S Lancekiller (with All+2)] Morgan outdodges Severa: 118 base Avo vs 116 (Avoid support in the form of Lancebreaker and Avo+10 are the same) Same support unit [Vaike!Gerome] (Mostly- subbing out the All+2 for Axebreaker to land hits on Thronie (Since I'll use Morgs as a DPS on Thronie and help OT doubles), was considering Swordbreaker, but outside of Ikeadin (who's a miniboss), Swords are used almost exclusively by trash) Axefaire, Axebreaker, Str+2, Dual Support+, Lancebreaker So differences: Killer Lance Soldiers in the open will have 14 Hit [4.06%] vs 16 [5.28%] (23.1% improvement to avoidance) Brave Lance Soldiers fighting on the stairs will have 0 Hit [0%] vs 1 [.03%] (Infinite improvement to avoidance) Anna will have 14 (Not full support) vs 16, 9[1.71%] vs 11[2.53%] with full support (32.4% improvement to avoidance) [And 0 if I kite her to where I can engage her with a Stairs bonus] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Wyvern lord morgan can reach 75 speed, and has high attack. I was thinking with going with Lancefaire and Luna on her since inigo has the axes. Also i didnt really marry and 2nd gen children yet, so if i should switch it up, then tell me to do so. Have Avatar drop DG+ for AT. Morgan is pretty safe with either Axes or Lances thanks to having such high Atk, Lances will have a bit better Hit but Axes get WTA on more stuff. I'd go Axes, personally. Anyway that team seems pretty finalized, so go ahead and make it. Replacing Severa as a "You can't hit this" vs Lances Aether, Luna, Avoid+10, Lancebreaker, Gale Hero@ [Mostly Brave Axes, could run Helswath or Ragnell on scenario] If you can stay away from EP combat, it might be worth replacing Avo+10 with Prescience. With enemy Hitrates that low already, -5 makes a pretty big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 If you can stay away from EP combat, it might be worth replacing Avo+10 with Prescience. With enemy Hitrates that low already, -5 makes a pretty big difference. The catch is EP combat... happens [Pulling Soldiers, Anna (I'm gonna blast her with Mire and then pull her. She moves if damaged at all, and there's something to attack... which gets her off that Throne (and removes 3 DEF and 20 Avo from her))] I could potentially carry a Titania's, so I've got patience for EP, but that's at the very least a 50% DPS loss on any EP combat. Anna would be at a hilarious 4 Hit (0.36%) at full support if I swing at her on PP with Patience (a 78.9% avoidance improvement vs 9). ...But there goes the EP bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Have Avatar drop DG+ for AT. Morgan is pretty safe with either Axes or Lances thanks to having such high Atk, Lances will have a bit better Hit but Axes get WTA on more stuff. I'd go Axes, personally. Anyway that team seems pretty finalized, so go ahead and make it. Ok cool, but should i have AT on Morgan for her to use Gradivus and Helswath and replace Luna/Hit+20? If i use Axes, she might need that Hit+20, but i dont know if it is worth taking out for AT. Also, can i switch it to Brady x Nah and Owain x Cynthia? I will most likely bench Nah, but i dont want Owain benched because hes one of my favs. Edited August 4, 2014 by Waifu Severa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Make Morgan, check her Hitrates with and without Hit+20, and decide if it makes enough of a difference to keep around. Owain x Cynthia will work fine. Pulling Anna: Titania's is 1-range anyway so she'll just attack with the Spear and you won't get any damage (I think, I haven't given her many opportunities to catch someone at 1-range myself), but same goes for the Brave Axe so you'd be at 50% on EP anyway thanks to no ranged Braves. How feasible would it be to pull her, then 2RKO with a dance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Ik everybody has different 2nd gen pairings, like severa x gerome or kjelle x brady, but are there really any optimal child pairings, or is it mostly preference? Also i dont like Lucina x Laurent anymore, only because of the fact that if i want an invincisorc with laurent, i will waste lucina's potential. So that gets me to think maybe i should do Nah x Laurent with Nah as an assassin to give high skill? Or should i just leave Lucina x Laurent and make him a sage supporter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 There aren't any truly optimal pairings, even stuff like Severa x Gerome and Avatar x Lucina can go from incredible to useless depending on your circumstances. Nah x Laurent will leave you without Galeforce on that pair and no VV ability (though if you do do it, Sage gives the same +Skl bonus as Assassin), effectively benching them both for Apo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Pulling Anna: Titania's is 1-range anyway so she'll just attack with the Spear and you won't get any damage (I think, I haven't given her many opportunities to catch someone at 1-range myself), but same goes for the Brave Axe so you'd be at 50% on EP anyway thanks to no ranged Braves. How feasible would it be to pull her, then 2RKO with a dance? Full DPS > 50% DPS > 0 DPS. 50% loss for things like Soldiers 100% loss on pulling Anna. (I'd use Helswath as a pull instead of the Brave, then finish with a Brave) ...The extra damage in there is weighed heavily against the extra survivability. It could swing either way. (Anna doesn't actually ever whip out that Brave Lance unless she can get to a Sniper/Someone equipped with a Bow/Somehow Breaks her Spear) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Gregor!Laurent x Sumia/Maribelle!Lucina ftw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 There aren't any truly optimal pairings, even stuff like Severa x Gerome and Avatar x Lucina can go from incredible to useless depending on your circumstances. Nah x Laurent will leave you without Galeforce on that pair and no VV ability (though if you do do it, Sage gives the same +Skl bonus as Assassin), effectively benching them both for Apo. So should i keep Laurent as a sage with Lucina DF lead or keep Lucina in the back and do VV with Laurent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Laurent is probably better off as a support unless you want to have your Fortify restricted and are able to set him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Lucina gets a kill as a DF and activates Gale. Use your 8 Mov to position, switch to Laurent and do any staff action. Laurent does no PP attacking since he rapes EP with VVDS+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Lucina gets a kill as a DF and activates Gale. Use your 8 Mov to position, switch to Laurent and do any staff action. Laurent does no PP attacking since he rapes EP with VVDS+ I thought VV was only for sorcs? I was planning on not putting VV on him if he is just a supporter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Laurent has Sage and Sorc access at base meaning he can rock VV Sage. Because he marries Lucy the pair gets 2 actions per turn. Lucy murders something and you can do whatever with your second action as Laurent. It is a 2-in-1 pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Ok cool, but i've come across another thing. Is Brady x Nah really good? Also if it is Brady x Nah, then i guess i can go with Virion!Brady for that extra speed, although he will lose sorceror, which isnt that good for him anyway. And does Nah really need to be a Hero? why not Sage instead? Edited August 5, 2014 by Waifu Severa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Sorc is a bad class with good skills, VV should always be done as a Sage. Brady x Nah will work, the reason you wanted Hero was for a +Spd support (Nah needs Valkyrie to do a magical +Spd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waifu Severa Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Sorc is a bad class with good skills, VV should always be done as a Sage. Brady x Nah will work, the reason you wanted Hero was for a +Spd support (Nah needs Valkyrie to do a magical +Spd). Ah ok, gotcha. Brady can never reach 75 speed anyway since i dont have rally heart, so i doubt that +speed from Hero really matters. I've always liked Manakete too, and that would give Brady +7 mag, str, def, and res, which is nice because like i said, his speed doesnt really matter. And Manaketes are just plain awesome. Would that work too? And something that i have been wondering about is Valflame. Isn't Valflame better than Celica's Gale for supporters? Celica's forged has 9 mt, attacking four times would be 36 damage, and since they are supporters, there are no procs to activate. Now Valflame has 16 mt, bu gives +5 magic, making it 21 mt. 2 hits would be 42 damage, which is 6 more damage than Celica's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Well, Brady doesn't need +Str and +Def/Res are generally not that useful. Manaketes also don't get Brave weapons. It'll probably work, though, I once did a Manaketes Only run of Apo and it worked out fine. The math doesn't work like that- striking twice gets your Mag applied twice too, not just weapon mt. So if you've got 80 Mag against 40 Res, Celica's will do 25 x4 and Valflame will do 31 x2. Ingame if your Atk is low enough (or your enemy's Def/Res is high enough) it's sometimes better to take a high-mt single over a low-mt Brave, but that never happens in Apo. Also less hits = less chances to trigger procs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 So I realized that Henry!Nah can be a Valkyrie. If I gave her husband Brady Lon'qu, which would mean Severa gets Virion, Brady could still get 75 Speed. Gerome would take Vaike instead of Henry and switch out Anathema for Strength +2. Alternatively, I could pair Nah with Owain and have Virion!Brady marry Chrom!Cynthia. With Owain as a hard lead, he could take Libra for Vengeance instead of Ricken for Luna, allowing me to do Ricken!Laurent!Morgan for 1 more Magic than Libra!Laurent!Morgan. Which do you think would be better? I'm leaning towards the second option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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