PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[isetrh]

Nah: Henry

Why not Gaius?

[Alastor15243]

Owain: Henry

Kjelle: Gaius

Laurent: Gregor

Cynthia: Chrom

Brady: Henry

Yarne: Virion

Severa: Virion

Nah: Henry

Noire: Gaius

Inigo: Libra

Gerome: Stahl

Morgan: Maribelle!Lucina

Laurent and Brady are pretty close with Lon'qu, and Inigo is pretty close with Chrom and Ricken. Morgan is also pretty close with Sumia!Lucina, Chrom!Cynthia and Aversa.

So... Male Morgan is a waste of time you feel?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Because Galeforce isn't everything. Henry!Nah has a lot more options, including a plethora of Auras and multiple good support classes. Since Nah also has a lot of room for skills, it's easy for her to tack on Vengeance and take the last move instead of her partner- and since Agg is twice as potent in the back, this is actually beneficial. Also she'd lack a (good) proc with Gaius, so her Galeforce wouldn't even be that useful.

So... Male Morgan is a waste of time you feel?

No, he's good, he just can't compete with his sister.

(Until the SF forums get back on their feet I'll be checking my PMs on GameFAQs regularly in case anyone wants to find me)

Edited August 20, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[isetrh]

Oh, that makes sense.

So why is FeMorgan better? Is it because of Aether?

Edited August 20, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yes.

[Alastor15243]

Yes.

But really in the endgame it's just an improved chance to do Luna, isn't it? Non-proc attacks don't do too much in the endgame, and you certanly aren't healing much.

[isetrh]

I decided to change things up a little again (sorry). I will do Gregor!Laurent x Sumia!Lucina. Partly this is because Czar recommended Gregor as Laurent's best father, Gregor is free, and I am easily swayed by other people's opinions. Partly it's because Brady is no longer stuck with Kellam this way, instead getting either Ricken or Libra. Brady will be Morgan's dad.

Now I'm wondering who uses Morgan better, Chrom!Cynthia or Henry!Nah? The other one gets Owain. Owain can run with Vengeance if he's married to Cynthia, but he needs Ricken for Luna if he marries Nah.

Henry!Nah (Vengeance + crit skills) x Ricken!Brady!Morgan (Ignis)

Chrom!Cynthia (Aether + Luna) x Libra!Owain (Vengeance)

FeMU (Ignis + Luna) x Ricken!Brady (Luna)

or

Henry!Nah (Vengeance + crit skills) x Ricken!Owain (Luna)

Chrom!Cynthia (Aether + Luna) x Libra!Brady!Morgan (Vengeance or Ignis)

FeMU (Ignis + Luna) x Libra!Brady (Vengeance or Luna)

Thanks!

[Czar_Yoshi]

But really in the endgame it's just an improved chance to do Luna, isn't it? Non-proc attacks don't do too much in the endgame, and you certanly aren't healing much.

The Luna boost usually isn't too huge either. Combined with the extra attack, you can sometimes get more than double the boost you'd get for a plain Luna. Here's some math. Using Sumia!Lucina@DF leading, with a generic Sage support vs Throned Anna with the standard set (LB/GF/Aether/Luna/DS+).

Mag: 42(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +9(pairup) +2(tonic) +11(Celica's) =85 Atk. Anna has 55+3 Res, 13 base, 27 Luna, 40 Aether. Not bad. PavGis doesn't actually change things, Thronie will take 6/13/19 damage total which is pretty much the same proportionally. When you get to be doing 20+ damage with your attacks, then Aether's boost is enormous.

Gregor!Laurent: technically Lon'qu!Laurent edges him out by 1 Mag/Skl, but I prefer G!L because Gregor's availability is better, he has AT for maingame (and is superb in Lunatic+) and doesn't miss any important thresholds that I know of.

Morgan x Nah will give you a more even power spread, Morgan x Cynthia will concentrate it a bit more.

[isetrh]

Okay thanks! I think I'll go with Morgan x Nah.

I'm guessing Laurent should have Tomefaire, but what should the last slot be? Agg and Anathema both seem like good options to me. He can't have Lon'qu because Severa needs him since Yarne took Virion.

Do Apo enemies have high Luck? I'm worried about the effectiveness of my Nah with Wrath and Anathema.

[Shadow Mir]

Okay thanks! I think I'll go with Morgan x Nah.

I'm guessing Laurent should have Tomefaire, but what should the last slot be? Agg and Anathema both seem like good options to me. He can't have Lon'qu because Severa needs him since Yarne took Virion.

Do Apo enemies have high Luck? I'm worried about the effectiveness of my Nah with Wrath and Anathema.

Can't answer the others, but Apo enemies have high luck, some especially so.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Secret Apo, every normal mook has 55, Bosses and the Counter Snipers have 60, Anna and Thronie have 65, Invincisorc's mooks have 70 and Invincisorc has 99.

Let's say you've got 31 base crit (Valkyrie), a 3/15 Celica's (20), Wrath active and an Anathema boost- your crit looks something like 26 in the back and 36 up front on mooks- nothing to rely on, but still a very nice random boost. Assuming LB/TF/Wrath/Anathema/Venegance here.

[isetrh]

That sounds great, thank you!

Any comment on Laurent using Anathema or Agg?

Will Lucina be okay without a proc? LB/GF/TF/DS+/Hit+20

By the way, what exactly do I do with my VVDS+ pair? I get how it works as a solo, but I don't understand how it works in a team. It seems to me like it must work as part of a team since for a solo Maribelle!Lucina x RLM or FeMU!Lucina x RL would be superior and people wouldn't recommend Gregor!Laurent.

Edited August 22, 2014 by isetrh

[MelonGx]

Leading RLM is inferior to supporting FeMU!Lucina.

Because leading damage growth is supporting damage growth's 1/2~1/4.

RLM-RL = 4 leading Mag = 1 damage

FeMU!Lucina-Maribelle!Lucina = 2 supporting Mag = 2 damage.

Supporting RLM is inferior to FeMU!Lucina either.

Because supporting RLM has to marry Olivia!Lucina to achieve VDS+.

Olivia!Lucina doesn't have Vengeance & Vengeance = at least 40/2/Dragonskin/Aegis+ = 5 damage > RLM-RL = 4 supporting Mag = 4 damage.

But Olivia!Lucina / RLM is able to immune Counter if you have RNG-manipulated Lucina's Mag below 24.

(If it's Vaike!Gerome!Morgan, it's below 30.)

Both VGM and RLM have a similar supporting power.

Without Aggressor, VGM has 108 physical MT, RLM has 98 magical MT.

4-hit KO requirement:

Anna - 108/108

Zerker(Throne) - 117/108

Zerkers - 114/105

NS - 110/86

InvinciSorc - 96/104

All the other enemies are below 108/98.

Due to weapon accuracy difference, VGM should equip hit+20 to 100% everything but RLM shouldn't.

Edited August 22, 2014 by MelonGx

[isetrh]

Thanks. That clears up most of what I asked, and it's always fun to learn about different setups.

Only thing is I still don't understand how VV works as part of a team. It's intuitive enough as a solo; I've used an imperfect form of it for Grima and RaR3 before.

Edit: I should have realized this a lot earlier, but if an offensive Vengeance user who isn't a Sniper fails to kill, don't they die? I must be missing something.

Edited August 22, 2014 by isetrh

[Alastor15243]

Alright, here are my current pairing plans for the kids:

Chrom!Inigo (Paladin) x Vaike!Severa (Hero)

Donnel!Kjelle (???) x Gregor!Gerome (Probably berserker)

Olivia!Lucina (Sniper) Platonic with +Spd-Lck Avatar (Berserker Probably)

Ricken!Owain (Dread Fighter) x Henry!Cynthia (Dark Flier)

Gaius!Noire (Sniper) x Frederick!Yarne (Berserker?)

Lon'Qu!Brady (Sage probably, maybe Dread Fighter for better bonuses) x Avatar!Nah (Manakete)

Nowi!Morgan (Manakete) x Libra!Laurent (Same as Brady)

The last two I'm iffy about. If anyone can think of a way to improve my pairings, I'd appreciate it. One thing though, for anyone who objects to me using the Manakete class: I am doing a no brave run. If you still think Manakete is a bad idea, I'd appreciate hearing your opinion on the matter, just know that "they can't use braves" is meaningless here.

[Waifu Severa]

If i get All+2 and Aggressor, what would i change in my current skills? This is assuming i get Rally Heart as well.

Hero Morgan: LB, Galeforce, AT, Axefaire, Ignis(Needs All+2 to get 100%DS)

Sniper Inigo: LB, Galeforce, AT, Bowfaire, Luna(Needs All+2 as well)

Hero Severa: LB, Galeforce, Swordfaire, Vengeance, AT(Needs All+2 with Sniper MU for 100%DS)

Sniper MU: LB, Bowfaire, Skill+2, All+2, Aggressor

Sage Owain: Galeforce, LB, Tomefaire, Luna, Aggressor

Dark Flier Cynthia: Galeforce, LB, Tomefaire, Aether, Luna

Dark Flier Lucina: Galeforce, LB, DS+, Aether, Luna

Sage Laurent: Vantage, Vengeance, LB, Tomefaire, AT(Maybe Aggressor instead of AT?)

Sniper Noire: Galeforce, LB, Bowfaire, Luna, All+2

Hero Gerome: All+2, Aggressor, Axefaire, DS+, LB(I dont like Berserker because low skill)

Sage Brady: Galeforce, LB, Tomefaire, Luna, Deliverer(Dont know if i need Aggressor/All+2 here)

Hero Nah: LB, Axefaire, All+2, Str+2, AT/Odd Rhythm

Paladin Kjelle: Galeforce, Lancefaire, LB, AT, Luna

Berserker Yarne: Axefaire, All+2, Aggressor, LB, Outdoor Fighter

Ik i do have a lot of Heros x Snipers, but its what i need if i want 100% DS

[Bloo]

Alright, here are my current pairing plans for the kids:

Chrom!Inigo (Paladin) x Vaike!Severa (Hero)

Donnel!Kjelle (???) x Gregor!Gerome (Probably berserker)

Olivia!Lucina (Sniper) Platonic with +Spd-Lck Avatar (Berserker Probably)

Ricken!Owain (Dread Fighter) x Henry!Cynthia (Dark Flier)

Gaius!Noire (Sniper) x Frederick!Yarne (Berserker?)

Lon'Qu!Brady (Sage probably, maybe Dread Fighter for better bonuses) x Avatar!Nah (Manakete)

Nowi!Morgan (Manakete) x Libra!Laurent (Same as Brady)

The last two I'm iffy about. If anyone can think of a way to improve my pairings, I'd appreciate it. One thing though, for anyone who objects to me using the Manakete class: I am doing a no brave run. If you still think Manakete is a bad idea, I'd appreciate hearing your opinion on the matter, just know that "they can't use braves" is meaningless here.

I'd probably do Virion!Brady and Lon'qu!Laurent instead.

[Alastor15243]

I'd probably do Virion!Brady and Lon'qu!Laurent instead.

Unfortunately I've already paired every parent up.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Thanks. That clears up most of what I asked, and it's always fun to learn about different setups.

Only thing is I still don't understand how VV works as part of a team. It's intuitive enough as a solo; I've used an imperfect form of it for Grima and RaR3 before.

Edit: I should have realized this a lot earlier, but if an offensive Vengeance user who isn't a Sniper fails to kill, don't they die? I must be missing something.

VV sets aren't team players. They're mostly good for mopping up mooks on challenge runs, and sometimes for taking down bosses, but they do tend to render large teams obsolete, especially when playing No Holds Barred.

Offensive Vengeance enters battle at full health, deliberately takes damage by charging Counter or attacking in range of the foe's weapon, and then uses the Vengeance boost to make sure they die on the second round, then get healed by a Staffbot. They never enter battle while hurt unless they have a guaranteed KO (or no chance of death, but you should never enter a battle where you can die anyway).

The last two I'm iffy about. If anyone can think of a way to improve my pairings, I'd appreciate it. One thing though, for anyone who objects to me using the Manakete class: I am doing a no brave run. If you still think Manakete is a bad idea, I'd appreciate hearing your opinion on the matter, just know that "they can't use braves" is meaningless here.

Check the Manaketes' Spd. If DF's +1(3) allows them to break any thresholds, it's worth it. You also may want to run one as a Manakete and one as a Bride, just for team diversity.

If i get All+2 and Aggressor, what would i change in my current skills? This is assuming i get Rally Heart as well.

Agg goes on all males, standard sets are LB/GF/Agg/Proc/Faire and LB/Agg/Faire/All+2/+Hit skill. All+2 goes on hard supports who don't want two +Hit skills and female leads over the second proc if they have Vengeance as their primary (or over the Faire if they have a procstack but need the Spd/Skl boost for thresholds).

[Alastor15243]

Check the Manaketes' Spd. If DF's +1(3) allows them to break any thresholds, it's worth it. You also may want to run one as a Manakete and one as a Bride, just for team diversity.

Alright, what notable thresholds are there besides 75 that I should look for?

Also, I'm guessing that Brady and Laurent aren't the best DFs. Are there better DF partners I could use?

Edited August 22, 2014 by Alastor15243

[isetrh]

VV sets aren't team players. They're mostly good for mopping up mooks on challenge runs, and sometimes for taking down bosses, but they do tend to render large teams obsolete, especially when playing No Holds Barred.

Offensive Vengeance enters battle at full health, deliberately takes damage by charging Counter or attacking in range of the foe's weapon, and then uses the Vengeance boost to make sure they die on the second round, then get healed by a Staffbot. They never enter battle while hurt unless they have a guaranteed KO (or no chance of death, but you should never enter a battle where you can die anyway).

I guess there isn't much point in doing VV then, since my team is huge. Sorry to waste your time.

Oh, that makes sense, thanks! Sounds like Lucina's husband (Morgan or Owain) could make good use of Vengeance since she gives a lot of guaranteed kills?

Edited August 22, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

Alright, what notable thresholds are there besides 75 that I should look for?

Also, I'm guessing that Brady and Laurent aren't the best DFs. Are there better DF partners I could use?

69 for doubling Thronie, 66 for not being doubled by Anna, 65 for doubling Invinciorc, 64 for doubling all non-bosses (except the Forseti Sage), 60 for not being doubled by Thronie. Below 60 is pretty bad and you start losing your ability to double lots of stuff.

Various magical Inigos are my go-to DFs (especially Henry!Inigo, if you can spare him).

[Alastor15243]

69 for doubling Thronie, 66 for not being doubled by Anna, 65 for doubling Invinciorc, 64 for doubling all non-bosses (except the Forseti Sage), 60 for not being doubled by Thronie. Below 60 is pretty bad and you start losing your ability to double lots of stuff.

Various magical Inigos are my go-to DFs (especially Henry!Inigo, if you can spare him).

Morgan and Nah have 38 speed as Manaketes. Plus dragonstone+ it's 42, plus tonics it's 44, then plus rallies and limit breaker it's 64, then 67 from standard pairups. So that brings it to 70. So all it does is make them able to double thronie (as well as give their strength and magic a healthy boost, good for Ignis). Verdict?

Edited August 22, 2014 by Alastor15243

[isetrh]

Just one last thing and I'll go away for at least a month: Should RLM run Ignis or Vengeance?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Manaketes: the best possible scenario here would be to change your Asset to Str/Skl (-4 Spd) and go DF (+3 Spd)- you'd be in the same threshold bracket, but with a more useful Avatar and better other stats. If that's not an option, DF is probably still worth it.

I prefer Vengeance when there's only room for one proc and it's available, but you can swap in Ignis if you have a hard time taking enough damage if you want.