PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[isetrh]

Wouldn't Henry!Owain work pretty well whether Owain is magical or physical? Vengeance, Barbarian, and mods... Forgot about the marrying Severa thing, sorry. Edited September 11, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

Owain already gets Barbarian.

[GinRei]

I was kind of leaning towards Ricken, Libra, or Lon'qu, but it sounds like Lon'qu is just blech, so down to Ricken or Libra (which actually works well, since either of them are tapped for anyone else yet, so I wouldn't have to change anything).

As a primarily support unit, but one that wants to swap in to Galeforce (as opposed to the likes of Gerome, Laurent, or Nah), do either Ricken or Libra really give anything over the other? I know Libra would grant the Dark Mage skills that work in support, but Ricken has DG+ (though not sure if that even really gets used) and Luna for when he switches in. As far as class pair up bonuses go, it looks like Ricken benefits from Paladin and Bow Knight, while Libra doesn't offer anything, though it really depends on if that even matters or if he'd just end up as one of his base Assassin, Berserker, or Dread Knight classes.

Of course, opinions for either physical or magic based Severa, since I haven't decided which way I want to take her yet.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ricken gives Luna, Libra gives Vengeance. That's all that Owain will care about. While stuff like Palading and Hit+20 from Ricken and Libra's Anathema sound nice, Owain just won't be running them (he goes Sage@LB/GF/Agg/TF/Proc, almost without exception outside challenge runs and being married to Lucina).

Virion!Severa can easily go either physical or magical, which is why I recommended her.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[GinRei]

But if she goes physical, Owain can't really go Sage without sacrificing a bonus boost to her, right? And I don't think Dread Fighter would give her the speed threshold needed, but I can't remember what that threshold is exactly, just think he'd be off by 2 with Virion!Severa or 1 with Lon'qu!Severa. That's why I was considering classes, but I guess if he'd just go Berserker if she were physical then it's not really an issue.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Stahl!Owain can go physical. It's not optimal (for Owain) but is Owain's best physical option and will still perform pretty well (Owain has both Hit+20 and Berserker to support with, and acceptable Str). Virion!Severa also has alternate physical options in Sniper and BK- Sniper is more powerful, but BK could go with Sage Owain without too much overlap.

[isetrh]

Owain already gets Barbarian.

Oh right. Sorry.

I don't know if/when I'll actually use them, but I made builds for my non-Apo pairs. It's kind of interesting since most of them are Gen 1, so their options are limited. Advice is welcome and appreciated, though I mostly just felt like sharing. All S-ranks are fixed because Apo kids are higher priority. These will be on Lunatic+.

Lissa @ Dark Flier

LB/GF/TF/AS+2/Lifetaker

Libra @ Dark Knight

LB/Agg/TF/Anathema/Hex

I left Libra as a hard support because offensive Vengeance in-game seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Sully @ Paladin

LB/SF/Luna/Astra/Deliverer

Donnel @ Hero

LB/Agg/AS+2/Zeal/AT

Donnel's skill pool is someehat lacking.

Miriel @ Valkyrie

LB/TF/Vengeance/Lifetaker/Anathema

Ricken @ Sage

LB/Agg/TF/AS+2/Hit+20

I was ending up with a lot of Dark Knights, so I thought I would make this pair more offensively oriented.

Maribelle @ Dark Flier

LB/GF/TF/AS+2/Lifetaker

Henry @ Warrior

LB/Agg/AF/Hex/Anathema

Warrior gives a sorely needed Def boost while using Henry's only Faire.

Panne @ Assassin

LB/Deliverer/Lancebreaker/Pass/Lethality

Gregor @ Assassin

LB/Agg/SF/AS+2/AT

One of few pairs who can pull off a dodgetank build. They could also pull off Wyvern Lord x Berserker, so that's another option.

Cordelia @ Falcon Knight

LB/GF/LF/Sol/Anathema

Lon'qu @ Assassin

LB/Agg/SF/AS+2/Str+2

Cordelia is pretty awesome.

Nowi @ Manakete

LB/Deliverer/Renewal/AS+2/Dragonsbane

Kellam @ General

LB/Agg/DG+/AS+2/Res+10

All Res+10 does is increase magic DG, but Kellam has very few options.

Tharja @ Bow Knight

LB/BF/Luna/DG+/Hex/Anathema

Gaius @ Hero

LB/Agg/SF/AS+2/Zeal

Sniper could also be an option for Tharja. A Dark Knight x Dread Fighter pair could also work.

Olivia @ Dancer

LB/GF/SF/Astra/Special Dance

Stahl @ Bow Knight

LB/Agg/BF/DG+/AS+2

Falcon Knight Olivia is another option.

Vaike @ Warrior

LB/Agg/AF/Sol/Lethality

Cherche @ Wyvern Lord

LB/AS+2/Demoiselle/DSu+/Str+2

Neither one is really suited to be a lead, but at least Vaike has procs. I wonder if he should swap out AF for AS+2 to use Bows better, since it is Lunatic+.

Frederick @ General

LB/Agg/Deliverer/Res+10/AS+2

Virion @ Dark Knight

LB/Agg/TF/Hit+20/AS+2

I think it's pretty cool that Fred can actually pull off General well, at least in theory.

Kellam!Nah @ Manakete

LB/Deliverer/Luna/Renewal/AS+2

Ricken!Laurent @ Dark Knight

LB/TF/DG+/Hex/Anathema

I left Agg off of Laurent's set because the pair will probably do most of their action on EP.

Say'ri @ Wyvern Lord

LB/GF/LF/Astra/Lethality

Tiki @ Manakete

LB/Deliverer/Renewal/AS+2/Dragonsbane

Say'ri could also be a Falcon Knight.

Anna @ Dark Knight

Locksmith/Move+1/Pass/LB/Lucky Seven

IR Locksmith. Couldn't think of what else to do with her.

Edited September 12, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

Looks mostly OK, but Tharja only has five skillslots and Nowi/Tiki don't get Renewal. If Panne is supposed to be a dodgetank, then she'll also want Lucky 7 over Pass or Lethality and probably Tantivity over to other one.

[isetrh]

Huh, whoops. I had it all worked out in my head, but some strange things made it into my post. No DG+ on Tharja, and Nowi/Tiki can use Lifetaker instead. Makes sense that standards for dodgetank are higher in postgame. I'll replace Pass and Lethality with Tantivy and Lucky Seven. Thanks for the help!

Which is better, Lon'qu!Brady or Henry!Brady? Switching to Lon'qu!Brady would screw with the parent pairs a little, but that's okay sincw Apo units take priority. Just want to make sure I'm using the right Brady because neither one interferes with the other kids in any significant way. He's marrying Chrom!Cynthia. Bad question, sorry. I already have plenty of 75 Speed units, and trading Vengeance for a point of DS is dumb. Thank you for putting up with my questions and giving me so much help to make what I hope will a great team!

Edited September 12, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

It's less of a "higher standards for dodgetanks" and more of that the ~5-15 Spd advantage you've got over all your other pairs doesn't make much of a difference. Sure, you're dodgy without the skills, but you're just as dodgy as everyone else and don't stand out as a pair built around dodging.

[isetrh]

I guess everyone else is already pretty dodgy. Lunatic+ is also a bad place to be a dodgetank now that I think about it. Maybe a Wyvern Lord x Berserker set would be better, or Wyvern Lord x Warrior since in-game Speed thresholds are so low.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ingame Spd thresholds may be much lower, but also keep in mind that it's a huge pain to lug Rallybots around everywhere and tonic up before every map, so your stats will be around 12 lower across the board than in Apo. A Virion!Severa would drop from 75 to 63 from losing those, and again down to 58 without the Berserker (and 56 if you swapped All+2 for AT). That can still double everything the maingame will throw at you with ease, but it starts getting close enough to keep an eye on.

That said, Warrior's +Def becomes much more relevant ingame.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[isetrh]

For ingame even Frederick can hit the Speed threshold. I can't find any any data on FoD bosses. For Challenge Pack maps I'm guessing Movement will be more important than Speed.

[isetrh]

Sorry for double posting; I don't think anyone would see this if I edited it into my last post.

I was thinking about the lack of proc-stack on my Noire x Morgan pair.

Gaius!Noire @ Sniper

LB/GF/BF/Luna/AS+2

Gregor!Yarne!Morgan @ Assassin

LB/GF/Agg/SF/Vengeance

Noire needs AS+2 for 100% DS. If I have Morgan trade SF for AS+2, Noire could drop AS+2 for Astra. Noire could also be the one to drop her Faire; the only reason I was thinking Morgan is because he has a secondary weapon type.

If I want to have a proc-stacker on that team, it almost seems like Morgan would do a better job since he can replace Astra with Ignis. I know it isn't standard for Galeboys to proc-stack, but I don't quite understand why thqt is. I know that girls have more room since they don't have Agg, but it's weird to me that girls prioritize second proc over Faire (Lucina with Aether+Luna and no Faire) while Galeboys do the opposite (Stahl!Inigo and Ricken!Owain/Inigo with Faire but no Astra). Is there a reason for this?

On a somewhat related note, I could also switch the roles of Sniper and Assassin. This would leave Morgan as the one with Vengeance, while also having a Vengeance Sniper, which is apparently pretty good. I didn't really know what I was doing when I decided that Morgan would be the Assassin and Noire would be the Sniper. My logic was that Noire would be in the front more often, and it is better to have the Sniper in front than the Assassin.

Switching Morgan's and Noire's classes opens up a possibility for dealing with the lack of proc-stack. If I have Noire and Donnel trade fathers, husbands, and roles (that felt really weird to type, I have to remember they're not real people), AS+2 becomes unnecessary with Kjelle's higher Skill. Noire loses Astra and her class set is limited, but she could still be a Sniper or BK married to Stahl!Inigo. Doing this would also allow Morgan to be a Hero instead of an Assassin.

Any advice?

Edited September 12, 2014 by isetrh

[solrocknroll]

meh

I'd like to examine some of the more wut Pairings for my current run, and not really optimize or blah blah blah, but I'd like the kids to be at least not-garbaje

Does Sully do fine with Ricken, at least well enough to do not terrible things? This isn't the Apotheosis master run or anything, I'd just like a chill run with not much amazing.

Oh, and Gaius/Maribelle.

[Zoran]

Here are some calculations to illustrate the difference between Luna+Tomefaire and Luna+Astra on boys. I'm using Ricken!Inigo with Dark Flier support; he has 70 Skill. He actually doubles Thronie, but that's not reflected below.

[Luna/Aggressor/Tomefaire], Celica
Outcome          Probability     Damage      Damage
                                 (Anna)     (Thronie)
Double Luna      .49               74          36
Single Luna      .42               60          29
Fizzle           .09               46          22

AVERAGE                            65.6        31.8
Support Output:  76
 
[Luna/Aggressor/Astra], Celica
Outcome          Probability     Damage      Damage
                                 (Anna)     (Thronie)
Double Astra     .1125            100          50
Astra + Luna     .3185             85          42
Single Astra     .1365             71          35
Double Luna      .207025           70          34
Single Luna      .17745            56          27
Fizzle           .038025           42          20

AVERAGE                            75.04       36.87
Support Output:  68

So Luna+Astra procstack on magical boys gains frontline output but loses support-side output in about equal amounts. The major distinction is that front-side output is restricted by Aegis+ but support-side output is not.

At the very least, these results suggest that for any magical Galeboy who is a dedicated lead, Astra+Luna is better than Luna+Tomefaire.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Zoran

[isetrh]

That explains it, thanks! Now the only question is whether to use Noire @ Sniper x Morgan @ Assassin or Kjelle @ Assassin x Morgan @ Sniper.

[Airship Canon]

Galeboys typically flip back and forth, because Double Gale pairs.

The overall damage of a pair is higher if the guy's running Agg, and they don't have room to double procs in those scenarios.

The one carrying Nah might run double-procs if running a Galeboy and Nah [i.E. in 7:2m/3f arrangement] since in that case, the guy is just going to be up front constantly [and he'll basically be a weaker Single Gale] but Agg support isn't something to give up readily in the other cases.

[isetrh]

Thanks AC. I get why you wouldn't drop Agg, my question was more why a Galeboy wouldn't drop the Faire like Lucina does, but I understand now.

In a Sniper x Assassin double Galepair, does it matter much which one the boy is and which one the girl is?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Not in a vacuum, but Sniper has very bad distribution so it's likely that only one child will have the option to use it. If both can... Then go for whatever arrangement lets you hit the most Spd thresholds (usually meaning the girl is the Sniper).

[isetrh]

Not in a vacuum, but Sniper has very bad distribution so it's likely that only one child will have the option to use it. If both can... Then go for whatever arrangement lets you hit the most Spd thresholds (usually meaning the girl is the Sniper).

In that case, I was considering changing my Morgan pair from

Gaius!Noire @ Sniper

LB/GF/BF/Luna/AS+2

Gregor!Yarne!Morgan @ Assassin

LB/GF/Agg/SF/Vengeance

to

Gaius!Kjelle @ Assassin

LB/GF/SF/Luna/Astra

Gregor!Yarne!Morgan @ Sniper

LB/GF/Agg/BF/Vengeance

This would mean that Inigo's wife would be Donnel!Noire instead of Donnel!Kjelle. Donnel!Noire doesn't have a lot of options, but she can do Sniper or Bow Knight with Vengeance + filler. If she's a Sniper the filler slot could be put to good use with AT, letting her use Double Bow instead of Longbow.

Does this switch seem like a good idea?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gaius!Kjelle is pretty good for DS purposes. I used her in my 100% DS team. Noire can still go Sniper/Bride with Donnel, so she'll be fine.

[Mousse9]

Hello. I've been told that this is the thread to go to for minmaxing and optimizing units and builds (and for getting the best offspring). I've got a few questions, mainly about best skills and class paths. If I'm in the wrong thread, let me know.

Here goes:

I'm on Normal/Casual Mode. No DLC.

Currently, Gaius just hit lvl 10 in Myrmidon (reclassed from Thief lvl 20). His Skill and Speed stat have maxed out, and I don't know whether I should get him to lvl 20 in Myrmidon, or Promote (or maybe even reclass to Fighter?). Myrmidon's best statgrowth is in Skill and Speed, which he's already capped, so would it be a big waste of experience if I kept him going to lvl 20? In short, Promote or keep going?

Oh yeah, classpath for Gaius = Thief 20, Myrmidon (???), Swordmaster 15, Trickster 15, Assassin as final class.

[Czar_Yoshi]

What do your Str and Def look like? You might want to reclass to Fighter and level to 10 first before promoting.

If you don't do that, I'd wait until you cap one more stat, then promote.

[Mousse9]

Str is 23, almost the cap of 25. Def is only 17, a far cry from the cap of 21.

Hm, now that I look at it, Fighter has a higher Strength and Defense growth and cap. I could reclass to Fighter and level to 10, but I'd have to Promote to Hero (Sol!) and level to 10 before going back to Swordmaster. That's a lot of promoting and reclassing.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Mousse9