Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Nah could use Wrath, maybe?

My last question didn't get answered, possibly because it was really long, directed specifically at Czar_Yoshi, and worded too much like a demand. I'm going to try again and avoid those things.

Are there any thresholds for numbers of APT on a 100% DS team? My current ideas result in 15 APT, which is three times the amount Czar_Yoshi recommended for comfortably clearing Apo IIRC.

Edited by isetrh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 7.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

So, I'm rounding out my Apo team and finishing grinding out my skills for final team.

I'm wondering what to use for my last slot of Frederick!Cynthia, Lon'qu!Yarne, Gregor!Kjelle, and Henry!Nah. The former is running Wyvern Lord as kind of a gimmick build, since it's the only unique build Fred!Cynthia can run. The middle 2 are both Assassins in 100% DS teams, while Nah is paired with Owain as a Sage/Valk team. My current skill sets for them are:

Frederick!Cynthia @Wyvern Lord [Galeforce/Luna/Lancefaire/?] - leading with Kellam!Inigo @Berserker

Lon'qu!Yarne @Assassin [Aggressor/Swordfaire/All Stats +2/?] - supporting Stahl!Severa @Sniper

Gregor!Kjelle @Assassin [swordfaire/Luna/All Stats+2/?] - supporting Chrom!Morgan @Sniper

Henry!Nah @Valkyrie [Vengeance/Tomefaire/Anathema/?] - supporting Ricken!Owain @Sage

I'd go either Lancebreaker or All+2 on Cynthia, Str+2 on Yarne, Deliverer on Kjelle, and Wrath on Nah if you have it (if you don't, use Focus).

My last question didn't get answered, possibly because it was really long, directed specifically at Czar_Yoshi, and worded too much like a demand. I'm going to try again and avoid those things.

Are there any thresholds for numbers of APT on a 100% DS team? My current ideas result in 15 APT, which is three times the amount Czar_Yoshi recommended for comfortably clearing Apo IIRC.

Actually it's because I wasn't here again for a few days.

Basically the logistics behind having a ton of 100% DS units only become a big deal once you have to start dealing with children tied to parents with negative Skl mods (Noire, Nah, Owain, Gerome- one of the guys can be tied to Lucina for a quick fix, and Noire has innate Sniper so that makes up for Tharja's Skl). If you don't have to deal with them, you get better mods all around (and a better choice of fathers), letting you do more nice things with your team- I'd advise shuffling a little of that saved skill around to try to either get pair with higher Atk, or getting more options outside of 100% mode (really, you wouldn't want a team that does 100% and nothing else). For example, you might try to find Morgan a Warrior/General support- their Skl isn't too bad and they have a huge return on Atk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gonna ask a dumb question here, why is 100% DS so sought after? Once you hit 90+% DS, is that 10% difference really going to matter? I understand that higher skill means higher skill activation rate, which I'm all in for but I've beaten S!Apo with only 80% DS and while I did fail a couple of times before beating it for the first time, it wasn't because my support unit didn't attack and said attack would have guaranteed a KO, but because I actually relied on DG+ to kick in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually it's because I wasn't here again for a few days.

Basically the logistics behind having a ton of 100% DS units only become a big deal once you have to start dealing with children tied to parents with negative Skl mods (Noire, Nah, Owain, Gerome- one of the guys can be tied to Lucina for a quick fix, and Noire has innate Sniper so that makes up for Tharja's Skl). If you don't have to deal with them, you get better mods all around (and a better choice of fathers), letting you do more nice things with your team- I'd advise shuffling a little of that saved skill around to try to either get pair with higher Atk, or getting more options outside of 100% mode (really, you wouldn't want a team that does 100% and nothing else). For example, you might try to find Morgan a Warrior/General support- their Skl isn't too bad and they have a huge return on Atk.

I guess I'm projecting, because those are the reasons I would be annoyed by someone like me.

What else should the team be able to do besides 100% DS? I have the other team you helped me make for other stuff, unless I'm missing something.

I'm looking, but I'm not seeing a way to get that much Skill onto Morgan's pair (for her to have a General or Warrior husband) without really giving up a lot. Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan x Virion!Yarne can pull off Sniper x Warrior, but that forces Severa to be a SF Assassin instead of a Sniper, Morgan has to drop either Deliverer or BF, and Yarne (LB/Agg/AF/All+2/Skill+2) can't take Hit+20 to have perfect Hit to complement his perfect DS.

In a way I'm already using the extra Skill to have more Atk, just not on Morgan's pair: everyone has Faires, and I'm able to use Gerome instead of Laurent. Maybe I can do more with it though.

My phone won't let me copy/paste today so I can't edit quotes into my posts, but to the question about why 100% DS is sought after:

SR Apo isn't really all that hard, and it's the game's final challenge, so making a team that works well is easy. 100% DS is overkill, but so is any sort of optimization if not on a challenge run. One measure of a team's power is RNG dependence, and a 100% DS team is capable of playing in a way so that it doesn't care at all about RNG.

Edited by isetrh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gonna ask a dumb question here, why is 100% DS so sought after? Once you hit 90+% DS, is that 10% difference really going to matter? I understand that higher skill means higher skill activation rate, which I'm all in for but I've beaten S!Apo with only 80% DS and while I did fail a couple of times before beating it for the first time, it wasn't because my support unit didn't attack and said attack would have guaranteed a KO, but because I actually relied on DG+ to kick in.

Essentially if you attack a foe who would kill you if they get an attack in, having imperfect DS means you have a chance of death while having perfect DS means you'll always live. It just puts more options on the table and is some lofty numerical goal to aim for because Apo by itself isn't tight enough.

What else should the team be able to do besides 100% DS? I have the other team you helped me make for other stuff, unless I'm missing something.

I'm looking, but I'm not seeing a way to get that much Skill onto Morgan's pair (for her to have a General or Warrior husband) without really giving up a lot. Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan x Virion!Yarne can pull off Sniper x Warrior, but that forces Severa to be a SF Assassin instead of a Sniper, Morgan has to drop either Deliverer or BF, and Yarne (LB/Agg/AF/All+2/Skill+2) can't take Hit+20 to have perfect Hit to complement his perfect DS.

Well, I made sure my team would have multiple different above average non-100% builds available, hit a bunch of other benchmarks in 100% mode, and crammed as much aesthetics into it as possible (hair color/supports, classes, supporting unit identities (currently using Katarina/Palla/Catria/Est) and overall theme).

Oh ho ho. I got post 3,000.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

SR Apo isn't really all that hard, and it's the game's final challenge, so making a team that works well is easy. 100% DS is overkill, but so is any sort of optimization if not on a challenge run. One measure of a team's power is RNG dependence, and a 100% DS team is capable of playing in a way so that it doesn't care at all about RNG.

Somehow that doesn't sit well with me. Even if you reach 100% DS with every pair, does this not go against the reason behind offensive skill stacking? If RNG reliance is the issue, having more than one RNG reliant skill implies that you are preparing for a situation in which you anticipate failure of the first skill, falling under the mercy of the RNG. Which goes back to what I was saying, once you hit a certain number range, the game kinda just plays in our favor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Essentially if you attack a foe who would kill you if they get an attack in, having imperfect DS means you have a chance of death while having perfect DS means you'll always live. It just puts more options on the table and is some lofty numerical goal to aim for because Apo by itself isn't tight enough.

Doesn't this undermine skill sets that are built around Vengeance?

Damn. Double posted.

Edited by Magician Lugh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My team doesn't use Vengeance. It's almost more of an aesthetic choice, but if I had to make up a reason for not using it I'd say DGs are still random and thus the damage Vengeance can do is semi-random as a result of that.

This probably isn't even an optimal way to play, I'm just doing it because it's fun. My average damage is certainly less than it would be if I was using procs, although my worst-case scenario is significantly better. I'm also fairly limited in my scope of available classes.

Basically, during normal play there's a much wider range of things that can happen. The worst case scenario is much worse (all DSes/procs fail, etc) but the best case scenario is much better (all procs work). This team takes a middle ground with a better worst-case, but the worst case and best case are now the same. Both types of teams still need to take care to avoid ever having a chance of death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somehow that doesn't sit well with me. Even if you reach 100% DS with every pair, does this not go against the reason behind offensive skill stacking? If RNG reliance is the issue, having more than one RNG reliant skill implies that you are preparing for a situation in which you anticipate failure of the first skill, falling under the mercy of the RNG. Which goes back to what I was saying, once you hit a certain number range, the game kinda just plays in our favor.

You don't have to put procs on a 100% DS team. I copied Czar_Yoshi's idea and left out all skills that depend on random chance. I agree with you though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So... I'm done with the maingame, Defeating Grima was a breeze and I only had to hit him once with Brady/my avatar with a forged Celica's gale so... time to plan for the real deal, apotheosis. I tried to pair the kids together and those are the results, this will probably be my definitive setup for the attacking pairs on apotheosis. Do you think it's possible beating it with them?

Sage!Maribelle @ Dread Fighter Chrom

Maribelle (Galeforce, Limit Breaker, tomefaire, Dual Support+, All stat +2))
Skl: 71 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) +2as ))
Spd: 72 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 6 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS
Luck: 75 (( 48 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS
Magic: 83 (( 48 (base) +10 (LB) + 6 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 tomefaire +2AS))

Chrom (Aggressor, Dual Strike+, aggressor, Hit+20, limit breaker)
Skl: 70 (( 41 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) ))
Spd: 67 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Luck: 71 (( 46 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Str: 68 (( 43 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies ))

Dual Strike%: 70 + 71 = 141/4 + 60 (Support) + 10 (DS+)= 105.25%

Aka: If you have to carry around Chrom you better try to make the best from his galeforce partner.

----

Dark Flier Maribelle!Lucina @ Sage Chrom!Brady!Morgan (Galepair)

Lucina (Aether, Limit Break, Luna, Tomefaire, Galeforce)
Skl: 73 ((44 (base)+10 (LB)+7(Pair up)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) ))
Spd: 68 (( 43 (base) +10 (LB) + 5 (3+0+0) + 12 (tonic&rallies) ))
Luck: 75 (( 50 (base) +10 (LB) + 5 (3+0+0) + 12 (tonic e rallies))
Magic: 81 ((45 (base) +10 (LB) + 9 (3+4+2) + 12 (tonics and Rallies) + 5 tomefaire))

Morgan (Limit Break, Tomefaire, Aggressor, Galeforce, Luna)
Skl: 68 ((43 (base)+10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic&rallies) ))
Spd: 74 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonic&rallies) ))
Luck: 77 (( 52 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Magic: 84 ((49 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies) + 5 tomefaire))

Dual Strike%: 73 (Lucina's skl) + 68 (Morgan's skl) = 143/4 + 60 (Support) = 95.25%

Aka: Can't double all units as a pair but if morgan leads it's an 'almost'.
------

Dark Flier Gaius!Cynthia @ Sage Ricken!Laurent

Cynthia (Galeforce, Limit Breaker, tomefaire, Luna/Astra, All stat +2))
Skl: 77 (( 46 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) +2as ))
Spd: 75 (( 48 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Luck: 71 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Magic: 80 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 9 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 tomefaire +2AS))

Laurent (Luna, Limit Breaker, Dual Support +, aggressor, all stat +2)
Skl: 72 (( 45 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) +2as ))
Spd: 76 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Luck: 74 (( 47 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Magic: 89 (( 52 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 tomefaire +2AS))

Dual Strike%: 73 + 72 = 141/4 + 60 (Support)= 96.25%

Aka: Devasting pair when Laurent Hits, he will have a Celica's gale forged to increase hit rate and power- so he will probably hit twice eben from the back. Also-Cynthia has super speed (and that's WHY I will always prefere Gaius!Noire)

------

Sage Libra!Owain @ Sniper Gregor!Noire

Owain (Galeforce, Aggressor, Limit Break, Tomefaire, All stat+2) [i wanted to pick Astra but it might backfire badly]
Skl: 75 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) +2as ))
Spd: 70 (( 43 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Luck: 74 (( 47 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Magic: 82 (( 50 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 tomefaire +2AS))

Noire (Limit Breaker, Bowfire, hit+20, luna, all stats+2)
Skl: 81 (( 50 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) +2as ))
Spd: 69 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Luck: 69 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
str: 76 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 bowfaire +2AS))

Dual Strike%: 81 + 75 = 141/4 + 60 (Support)= 99%

Aka: Libra!Owain hurts, Noire is also a great support and an almost guarantee hit. .
----

Hero Lon'qu!Severa @ Berserker Kellam!Inigo

Severa (Limit Breaker, Galeforce, Swordfaire, All stat +2, FILLER)
Skl: 80 (( 52 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (Pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2As +1))
Spd: 81 (( 48 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS +1))
Luck: 73 (( 45 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS +1))
str: 84 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 10 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 swordfaire +2AS +1))

Inigo (Limit Breaker, Aggressor, Luna, galeforce, axefaire)
Skl: 67 (( 38 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Spd: 73 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Luck: 69 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
str: 82 (( 52 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 axefaire))

Dual Strike%: 80 + 67 = 141/4 + 60 (Support)= 96.5%

Aka: Hero-Berserker FTW even if, sigh, I couldn't get high skilled children with this class. Inigo isn't too bad, thought, an almost guarantee support who hits high enough with a Severa who can double everything. Add a set of Brave weapons and I'd say she rocks.

----

Dark!Flier Avatar (+def/-skl) @ Sage Chrom!Brady (galepair)

Avatar (Galeforce, Limit Breaker, tomefaire, Luna, Ignis)
Skl: 67 (( 38 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) ))
Spd: 67 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Luck: 72 (( 47 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Magic: 78 (( 42 (base) +10 (LB) + 9 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 tomefaire))

Brady (Luna, Limit Breaker, Galeforce, aggressor, all stat +2)
Skl: 73 (( 46 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (Pairup)) +2 (Tonic) +10 (rallies) +2as ))
Spd: 76 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Luck: 77 (( 50 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Magic: 86 (( 49 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 tomefaire +2AS))

Dual Strike%: 80 + 69 = 141/4 + 60 (Support)= 95%

Aka: Brady will lead, definitely, Avatar's setting was a sad one but she'll be at least a decent supporter AND a good unit to carry Brady Around. He will double basically everything.

---

Hero Donnel!Kjelle @ Berserker Fred!Yarne

Kjelle (Galeforce, Luna, Limit Breaker, swordfaire, all stat+2)
Skl: 75 (( 48 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (Pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2As ))
Spd: 76 (( 44 (base) +10 (LB) + 8 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
Luck: 76 (( 49 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) +2AS ))
str: 82 (( 52 (base) +10 (LB) + 10 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies +2AS + 5 swordfaire))

Yarne (Limit Breaker, Aggressor, Luna, defender, axefaire)
Skl: 69 (( 40 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (Pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Spd: 75 (( 46 (base) +10 (LB) + 7 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
Luck: 70 (( 45 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonic e rallies) ))
str: 85 (( 55 (base) +10 (LB) + 3 (pairup) + 12 (tonics and Rallies + 5 axefaire))

Dual Strike%: 75 + 69 = 141/4 + 60 (Support)= 96%

Aka: I had issues with Yarne and in the end I opted for Frederick. He offers him what Stahl does with an extra point on skl... which is good. Kjelle Rocks hard and when Yarne Hits he will be a great support.



I was almost tempted to swap Yarne and Inigo and it might happen, all children pairs are still to do. This will be my 14 active 14 characters to bring in APO (Even if I may switch to less pairings if I see more support is needed), accompanied by 5 staffbot/healers/ralliers and Dancer!Olivia. For the supporting ones I will probably pick spotpass units, aka Celika, Nyna, Erika and Micaiah but I still have to start training those. Heck, I only have 3 LB for now...

Also, yes, I will bench both Nah and Gerome but... it's okay? Their mothers will be paired only for the sake of the past future dlc.

Edited by Rydia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think it's possible beating it with them?

I know It's possible to beat S.Apo with only 1st gen non-Avatar units and no S supports while never trusting the RNG with your life, so this is definitely possible. Now, there are a lot of steps you can take to make it easier, but depending on how far you are into making this team going and getting some experience will do you more good than pouring over calculations for a month. So I'd just go ahead and make it.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello! It's been a while since I made a post and in the meantime I have been thinking about this team that I made, for the first time with a male MU. This has all been theorycrafting so far, so I was wondering if you guys could take a look and point out some improvements? Thanks in advance.

In a nutshell:

Sumia @Dark Flier x Chrom @Bow Knight
Sumia!Lucina @Great Lord x +Skl/-Def MaMU @Berserker
Sumia!Lucina!Morgan @Sniper x Lon’Qu!Brady @Sage
Chrom!Cynthia @Dark Flier x Libra!Owain @Sage
Donnel!Kjelle @Hero x Ricken!Inigo @Sage
Vaike!Severa @Hero x Virion!Yarne @Assassin
Gaius!Noire @Sniper x Stahl!Gerome @Warrior
Olivia @Dancer, 3 staffbots and 2 rallybots

18 APT including Olivia. 3 pairs have 100% DS and Sumia, Lucina, Cynthia and Severa reach 75Spd. Chrom, MaMU, Yarne and Gerome are hard supports. I decided to bench Henry!Nah and Gregor!Laurent, cause I'm only fielding twelve kids and I put Gerome over Laurent because he hits way harder and Noire doesn't need 75Spd anyway. Nah simply isn't needed between the galeboys and Morgan/Cynthia/Kjelle. I feel the balance between physical and magical is excellent, which makes it more fun to play with, but of course everything is open for change.

The team in detail:

Sumia @Dark Flier - LB/GF/Luna/TF/All+2

Chrom @Bow Knight - LB/Agg/BF/DS+/Charm

DS rate: 100%

Sumia!Lucina @Great Lord - LB/GF/Aether/Luna/DS+

+Skl/-Def MaMU @Berserker - LB/Agg/AF/Hit+20/All+2

DS rate: 100%, Hit MaMU: ((3x63Skl)+68Lck):2= 128,50 + 10 (WPR) + 60 (Brave Axe) + 20 (Support Bonus) + 20 (Hit+20) = 238
(I'm not sure my calculation is right, so if that's not the case, please let me know)

Sumia!Lucina!Morgan @Sniper - LB/GF/Aether/Ignis/AT (AT for Double Bow)

Lon’Qu!Brady @Sage - LB/GF/Agg/Luna/TF
DS rate Morgan leading: 98%, DS rate Brady: 99%

Chrom!Cynthia @Dark Flier - LB/GF/Aether/Luna/All+2 (All+2 is needed for 75Spd)

Libra!Owain @Sage - LB/GF/Agg/Vengeance/TF

DS rate Cynthia leading: 95%, DS rate Owain: 95%

Donnel!Kjelle @Hero - LB/GF/Luna/Astra/SF (All+2 wasn't needed, so I went with procstacking)

Ricken!Inigo @Sage - LB/GF/Agg/Luna/TF

DS rate Kjelle leading: 96%, DS rate Inigo: 96%

Vaike!Severa @Hero - LB/GF/Luna/AF/All+2

Virion!Yarne @Assassin - LB/Agg/BF/All+2/Skl+2

DS rate: (((81+79):4)+60)= 100%

Gaius!Noire @Sniper - LB/GF/Luna/BF/Anathema

Stahl!Gerome @Warrior - LB/Agg/BF/Hit+20/All+2

DS rate: 96%

Olivia @Dancer - LB/Special Dance/SF/All+2/Bond

Staffbots:

DLC Elincia @Valkyrie - LB/TF/Mov+1/Acrobat/Charm

DLC Micaiah @Valkyrie - LB/TF/Mov+1/Acrobat/Shadowgift

DLC Katarina @Valkyrie - LB/TF/Mov+1/Acrobat/Shadowgift

Rallybots:

DLC Celica @Falcon Knight - Rally Spectrum/Skill/Luck/Defense/Resistance

DLC Palla @Falcon Knight - Rally Heart/Strength/Magic/Speed/Movement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the first thing I notice: GL x Berserker is a pretty good pairing in terms of Spd and damage output, but what do you want it for? It's going to be well over the 75 Spd threshold, you could easily either switch Avatar for something with more Hit or Lucina for something with more Mov.

Also, the majority of your double Galepairs don't boost eachother's Atk stats. While this isn't a bad thing, it might be more useful on your hard support pairs.

Neither of those are game changers, just things you might want to keep in mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are the general consensus on Olivia!Lucina vs Sumia!Lucina?

What about Luna Galeforce Inigo vs Tomefaire Vengeance Inigo?

And what about Female Avatar x Ricken!Owain vs Female Avatar x Ricken!Laurent?

So 1 Magic difference, one Galeforce boy, and lack of Vengeance for Owain and lack of Vantage for Laurent?

I'm thinking of pairing up Morgan with Lucina.

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Olivia!Lucina and Sumia!Lucina play mostly the same. They run the same skillsets and the only real differences between the two are access to Myrmidon and Sage trees respectively, and their stats are slightly different. Olivia!Lucina has a better STR mod, while Sumia!Lucina has more SPD and SKL.

The difference between the two pairings largely comes down to Chrom's second child. Chrom!Cynthia inherits Aether, which is a very very good skill with extremely limited access. Chrom!Inigo inherits Rightful King, which is a pretty meh skill. Inigo is fine without Chrom.The same could be said for Cynthia, but her only other good option is Henry and Sumia's marriage options are extremely limited anyway. Chrom!Inigo is definitely up there in terms of good Inigos, but as long as Inigo's father gives him a proc, he's fine. Sumia x Chrom is simply more convenient and makes better use of Chrom's unique inheritance, at least in my opinion.

There's no reason why you can't have tomefaire, vengeance, and galeforce on the same set for Inigo. Libra provides Tomefaire and Vengeance. If you want to know which proc is better... well, I can't answer that. They both have an element of RNG to them so it's kind of preference.

Laurent is fine without Vantage unless you really want to use VVDS+. Ricken!Laurent!Morgan is pretty good, and is a great option if you're doing Morgan x Lucina, which is also a great option.

I'm not an expert by any means but these are just my opinions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the first thing I notice: GL x Berserker is a pretty good pairing in terms of Spd and damage output, but what do you want it for? It's going to be well over the 75 Spd threshold, you could easily either switch Avatar for something with more Hit or Lucina for something with more Mov.

Also, the majority of your double Galepairs don't boost eachother's Atk stats. While this isn't a bad thing, it might be more useful on your hard support pairs.

Neither of those are game changers, just things you might want to keep in mind.

I was going for mostly a high damge output, but now that I look at it, Paladin would suit her better. She gains +2 Str and +1 Mov, while she stays at 75 Spd and only loses 2 Skl, which seems like a good deal.

Yes, I noticed. I was thinking about shuffling a bit:

Sumia!Lucina!Morgan @Sniper x Lon'Qu!Brady @Sage -> Frederick!Inigo @Hero

Donnel!Kjelle @Hero x Ricken!Inigo @Sage -> Lon'Qu!Brady @Sage

Inigo can take Fredericks negative Spd mod; he'll still reach 69 Spd, while he gains a lot of Skl. This gives Morgan 75 Spd, makes sure her +3 Att don't go to waste and, when given All+2, this couple reaches 100% DS. Would it be worth taking out either Armsthrift (meaning Double Bow) or Axefaire for this?

This means Brady moves over to Kjelle, where nothing much has changed except for +1% DS (Kjelle) or +2% DS (Brady). This also means Ricken frees up, but giving him to Owain wouldn't be worth it, right? He'd gain Luna and 1 Mag, but loses Vengeance and 1 Skl and by that 1% DS..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Olivia!Lucina and Sumia!Lucina play mostly the same. They run the same skillsets and the only real differences between the two are access to Myrmidon and Sage trees respectively, and their stats are slightly different. Olivia!Lucina has a better STR mod, while Sumia!Lucina has more SPD and SKL.

Tomefaire Tomefaire Tomefaire. Olivia!Lucina lacks this, and thus is forced to stick to much more limited options than Sumia!Lucina.

But my real beef with any non-Chrom x Sumia pair is that it forces Henry x Sumia, and Henry is a really great dad for quite a lot of children and tying him down to someone with a clearly superior option is a drag on the rest of your team. Thus, I only recommend Chrom x not Sumia if you're not using all the children (and thus have more freedom with fathers).

Inigo can take Fredericks negative Spd mod; he'll still reach 69 Spd, while he gains a lot of Skl. This gives Morgan 75 Spd, makes sure her +3 Att don't go to waste and, when given All+2, this couple reaches 100% DS. Would it be worth taking out either Armsthrift (meaning Double Bow) or Axefaire for this?

This means Brady moves over to Kjelle, where nothing much has changed except for +1% DS (Kjelle) or +2% DS (Brady). This also means Ricken frees up, but giving him to Owain wouldn't be worth it, right? He'd gain Luna and 1 Mag, but loses Vengeance and 1 Skl and by that 1% DS..

Just one All+2 for 100% DS on a Sniper x Sage pair is definitely worth it (make sure it still works when the Sniper is leading, though). Go for it.

Those two Owains are pretty much equal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But my real beef with any non-Chrom x Sumia pair is that it forces Henry x Sumia, and Henry is a really great dad for quite a lot of children and tying him down to someone with a clearly superior option is a drag on the rest of your team. Thus, I only recommend Chrom x not Sumia if you're not using all the children (and thus have more freedom with fathers).

@ Bold: Maybe I'm biased but I do not see how Henry benefits the other children other than Gerome. My argument is that:

1)if the child is intended to be a lead and does not have Luna from their mothers(Inigo, Severa, and maybe Owain lead wise), the 2 or 3 extra damage from Axefaire isn't going to make much of a difference for Severa and Inigo. Owain is most likely going Magical with that +4 Mag modifier.

2)if the child is intended to be a lead and does have Luna from their mothers(Kjelle, Cynthia, Noire, and Brady), while their modifiers turn out nice, they don't gain much from him because none of these children want to be in an Axe class as their final class(other than Hero but they don't get Hero from Henry anyway) as leads want as much Skill and Speed as possible and such classes do not emphasize on these areas.

3) This leaves Nah, Yarne, and Laurent. Yarne has innate Axefaire, Laurent is going Magical even though he has innate Axefaire, and Nah can go either Magical or Physical but since she doesn't get Hero, Axefaire is again useless and thus Magical is the better choice as she gets Tomefaire

This leaves us with Gerome who has innate Hero, needs Axefaire, gets decent skill modifier from Henry and his modifiers do not clash with Cherche's.

See, I say this but I actually pair Henry with Sumia just so F!Morgan can inherit that +5 skill modifier. I realize that Lon'qu!Severa gives even better Skill and Speed but then she misses out on Luna if I did that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Henry is pretty much good for any child that doesn't already have Vengeance. Dark Mage isn't the only good thing about his inheritance though, since he also provides the Barbarian and Troubadour trees, which are useful on several children. His stat mods are also great, +1 MAG +1 STR and +2 SKL is hard to say no to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ Bold: Maybe I'm biased but I do not see how Henry benefits the other children other than Gerome. My argument is that:

1)if the child is intended to be a lead and does not have Luna from their mothers(Inigo, Severa, and maybe Owain lead wise), the 2 or 3 extra damage from Axefaire isn't going to make much of a difference for Severa and Inigo. Owain is most likely going Magical with that +4 Mag modifier.

2)if the child is intended to be a lead and does have Luna from their mothers(Kjelle, Cynthia, Noire, and Brady), while their modifiers turn out nice, they don't gain much from him because none of these children want to be in an Axe class as their final class(other than Hero but they don't get Hero from Henry anyway) as leads want as much Skill and Speed as possible and such classes do not emphasize on these areas.

3) This leaves Nah, Yarne, and Laurent. Yarne has innate Axefaire, Laurent is going Magical even though he has innate Axefaire, and Nah can go either Magical or Physical but since she doesn't get Hero, Axefaire is again useless and thus Magical is the better choice as she gets Tomefaire

This leaves us with Gerome who has innate Hero, needs Axefaire, gets decent skill modifier from Henry and his modifiers do not clash with Cherche's.

See, I say this but I actually pair Henry with Sumia just so F!Morgan can inherit that +5 skill modifier. I realize that Lon'qu!Severa gives even better Skill and Speed but then she misses out on Luna if I did that.

Well, aside from Cynthia and Gerome...

Henry has the most Skl out of any proc/+Mag father for Owain. The same applies for Brady, if you'd rather run Vengeance than Luna, and he also allows Brady to put up a much better physical set in a pinch than he'd be able to otherwise (for training/fun/themed runs/whatever) without sacrificing any magical ability. He's the best father for a dedicated physical Vengeance Inigo, particularly if Inigo wants to be a Berserker (no proc woes thanks to Vengeance's high activation rate, and several options for +Hit skills).

His best use, though, is on Nah. Take a look at their mods: Nah will have +3 Str/Mag. She can easily switch between magical and physical, and magically she has the highest Mag out of any Nah with a Tomefaire-using class that boosts Spd (Valkyrie).

So, Henry is a good father for Cynthia, Gerome, Brady, Owain, Inigo, and arguably the best for Nah. And honestly, you're not going to find too many fathers who can be strong candidates for 6 out of 11 children (Lucina and Morgan don't count).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of Nah, how do you feel about Vaike!Nah, at least in comparison to Henry!Nah? Ignoring the fact that Vaike!Nah is locked to physical and is almost always married to Inigo, how close do you think they are in overall power?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again Serenes! It's been a while!

I have a question about Lunatic avatar wives ATM.

A while ago I decided to marry Cordelia to my +Def -Lck M!Mu and I like the file a lot, but I feel Severa wastes the avatar's genes (I do love red-headed Morgan though)

I'm thinking Cherche might be better, as Gerome could do very well with avatar genes. I'm good enough at Lunatic now that I don' have to go +Def either and I've done a +Skl -Lck avatar and a +Str -Lck avatar. I could also marry Sumia (Whom I addore, but I don't really like her hair on Morgan) and go for a +Mag avatar.

In the end, should I keep my avatar married to Cordy, or remake the file married the Cherche or Sumia? Does Gerome or Cynthia get more out of the avatar in lunatic mode?

One last thing. I usually go for 2 avatar kids to spread AT+Ignis+Other goodies around more, but I'm also thinking of Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan. Would having one less uber kid in exchange for Aether on Morgan be worth it?

Sorry for the wall of text. Thank you for the help!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Generally people marry their avatar to a second gen character so that they can all have S rank supports, in addition to Morgan having better mods. The only real use for Avatar's manly genes in terms of class selection is for Nah, and to a lesser extent Noire. If you do that, you have the issue that a second gen character is going to have to settle for an A support instead. You can work around that by using Lucina's DS+ as a pseudo s-rank support, but it's still not as good. Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan is identical to Sumia!Lucina!Morgan, so you're good to go there. I personally like the idea of MU!Nah, and I'd like to give it a shot someday, but it's not really the best way to go purely from an optimization standpoint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I have 3 copies of Awakening, and I have an Avatar!Nah and an Avatar!Noire on two of the 9 files. Avatar!Nah is so broken, and Morgan gets green hair!

I love Cynthia, and I know S!L!M is the same as C!C!M, just without DS+ for the Avatar. I know 3rd gen Morgan is probably better, but I really love having 2 avatar kids, and love Gerome and Cynthia a lot. I'd like to over-power one of them, but Aether is really tempting too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is all just my opinion, so feel free to disagree with me or point out errors in my logic, but honestly it doesn't feel like any of the children really need avatar as their father to be good. Even if you've got all class selection, you only have 5 skill slots. If you're using the DLC you basically have 4, 3 for male characters, because there's no reason to not use Limit Breaker and Aggressor. Typically you'll have galeforce(if available), a faire, and a proc, sometimes two. If you're a hard support you'll usually have a faire and hit/power boosting skills. Add in some filler skills like armsthrift here and there and you're good to go. Most of the children can fill all of that in some form without Avatar's all class selection, though it's certainly nice to have. Nah is an oddball in that she can't ever get a truly complete set without Avatar. She can either have galeforce and no reliable procs or reliable procs and no galeforce. The latter is much better, she makes a great support unit and can even lead. Galeforce isn't the end-all skill. Noire is weird in that her magic mod would suggest that she should be a magic user, but she actually functions better as a physical character due to the fact that she can't get tomefaire and galeforce in the same set without Avatar. She's perfectly fine like that though, and since Snipers are so rare she makes good use of the class. Avatar confers great stats to his children, but that's really the only true benefit. Personal preference is another thing, if you like having two Morgans, by all means do it. I've always subscribed to the logic that the best way to play games is the way you enjoy most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...