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Because his parent pairings were randomly generated.

ah. That explains it. I just looked at them and they just looked so horribly mixed up I had to comment on it.

Edit: (I really hope somebody notices this edit, curse everyone for not posting here for nearly four days)

So I'm working on my latest no-brave Apotheosis run, and here's what I'm thinking (bolded characters have already been collected):

Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper (DSt+/GF/Aether/Luna) X Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (AF/Agg/AS+2/Anathema) (A 100% DS Aether Sniper-Berserker duo, nuff said, absolutely deadly.)

Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier (TF/GF/Aether/Luna) X Lon'qu!Brady @ Sage (GF/Agg/Luna/Astra) (Considering replacing Astra with tomefaire, but on no-brave runs whiffing is really dangerous, especially when your partner isn't the strongest at support damage, so I'm thinking Astra might be worthwhile)

+Skl-Def!Robin @ Sniper (AS+2/GF/Luna/Ignis) X Gregor!Yarne @ Assassin (AS+2/Agg/SF/Str+2) (100% DS Sniper-Assassin duo. I could do Berserker instead, but certainty is probably more important than power when you can only choose one)

Gregor!Yarne!Morgan @ Assassin (Agg/GF/Luna/Ignis) X Stahl!Nah @ Sniper (AS+2/BF/Str+2/Luna) (A 100% DS Assassin-Sniper duo with pretty hefty physical power (+7 mod for Morgan, + 4 + 2 + 2 for Nah) with a near 100% chance of proccing for Morgan and luna on Nah for the instances where there are enemies that absolutely HAVE to be engaged at 3 range).

Gaius!Noire @ Trickster (SF/GF/Luna/Astra) X Libra!Laurent @ Sage (TF/Agg/AS+2/Mag+2) (Obscenely good at taking down the notoriously difficult-to-kill Thronie and his Clonies with a levin sword)

Donnel!Kjelle @ Bride (AT or AS+2/GF/Luna/Astra) X Ricken!Owain @ Dread Fighter (Agg/GF/Luna/Astra) (With these two I have my pick of attacking aegis or pavise physically or magically between Kjelle's lances and bows and Owain's levin swords and tomes)

Vaike!Severa @ Hero (AF/GF/AT/Luna) X Frederick!Inigo @ Paladin (Agg/GF/Luna/Astra) (This has worked for me quite well in the past, though Severa's single proc is somewhat worrisome).

Anybody have any advice or suggestions for altered pairings or classes or skills?

Edited by Alastor15243
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I'd change Noire to DK for more Str, Mag, Mov and Tome access unless that 3 Spd is preventing you from getting doubled or something (it shouldn't be).

I also wouldn't worry too much about Severa. She's got 42(base) +5(mods) +20(LB/Rally) +5(AF) +7(pairup) +23(Hector's Axe) =102 Atk before DSes/Luna (and 75 Spd so always doubling). Against, say, 55 Def with no Pavise+, that's 46 damage from her two attacks alone, with Luna adding +13 and DSes likely adding 21 more, that's on ORKO with two DSes or one Luna and one DS. You'd have to whiff a DS and both Lunas to drop the kill. Both DSes at ~95% failing just isn't likely to happen.

I'd honestly be more worried about Inigo getting kills since he has no Agg support, and also gets no +Str from Severa's Hero.

...Since this thread is slow, a small theorycrafting thing: I found a unit who can actually both use GK well, and doesn't have their GK's role eclipsed by another class: Gaius!Cynthia. She has the +6 Spd required to hit 75 with All+2 and a +3 support, and unlike Lon'qu!Severa (the only other non-Morgan Galegirl with +6 Spd) she actually has GK. She gets her choice of Swordfaire and Lancefaire to go with it as well.

Unfortunately, GK is still a really bad class, as demonstrated by her combat stats paired up with a Libra!Owain@Berserker: she features a paltry 66% Luna and 91% DS, despite her +5 Skl mod. And even though GK has +2 Str over Wyvern Lords, her +0 Str mod still puts her on even footing with the various +2 Wyvern Severas (and +1 ahead of Wyvern Kjelle). So she can't make use of GK's one selling point... And is stuck on the ground with 7 Mov. Oh well. It was worth noting.

Incidentally, Gaius!Cynthia is also the only non-Morgan Dark Flier who can both hit 75 Spd with All+2 and a Sage support who also gets Tomefaire. Too bad she can't run TF and All+2 at the same time while still using her Luna/Astra procstack.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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I'd change Noire to DK for more Str, Mag, Mov and Tome access unless that 3 Spd is preventing you from getting doubled or something (it shouldn't be).

Oh, you're right, Dark Knight Gaius!Noire just barely reaches 69 speed with a generic +3 support, rallies and tonics. That definitely does seem like a better option, and the tome use and movement would probably be useful... in exchange for emergency rescue bot functionality... Hmm... I think I might go for Dark Knight.

I also wouldn't worry too much about Severa. She's got 42(base) +5(mods) +20(LB/Rally) +5(AF) +7(pairup) +23(Hector's Axe) =102 Atk before DSes/Luna (and 75 Spd so always doubling). Against, say, 55 Def with no Pavise+, that's 46 damage from her two attacks alone, with Luna adding +13 and DSes likely adding 21 more, that's on ORKO with two DSes or one Luna and one DS. You'd have to whiff a DS and both Lunas to drop the kill. Both DSes at ~95% failing just isn't likely to happen.

I'd honestly be more worried about Inigo getting kills since he has no Agg support, and also gets no +Str from Severa's Hero.

Yeah that thing about Severa not boosting Inigo's strength is one of my biggest gripes about the pair. But thanks for the reassurance regarding Severa!

...Since this thread is slow, a small theorycrafting thing: I found a unit who can actually both use GK well, and doesn't have their GK's role eclipsed by another class: Gaius!Cynthia. She has the +6 Spd required to hit 75 with All+2 and a +3 support, and unlike Lon'qu!Severa (the only other non-Morgan Galegirl with +6 Spd) she actually has GK. She gets her choice of Swordfaire and Lancefaire to go with it as well.

Unfortunately, GK is still a really bad class, as demonstrated by her combat stats paired up with a Libra!Owain@Berserker: she features a paltry 66% Luna and 91% DS, despite her +5 Skl mod. And even though GK has +2 Str over Wyvern Lords, her +0 Str mod still puts her on even footing with the various +2 Wyvern Severas (and +1 ahead of Wyvern Kjelle). So she can't make use of GK's one selling point... And is stuck on the ground with 7 Mov. Oh well. It was worth noting.

Incidentally, Gaius!Cynthia is also the only non-Morgan Dark Flier who can both hit 75 Spd with All+2 and a Sage support who also gets Tomefaire. Too bad she can't run TF and All+2 at the same time while still using her Luna/Astra procstack.

Hm...

That is an interesting niche, though obviously Gaius is a ''very'' valuable father, and I suppose one question is "is that niche even better for CYNTHIA, considering she replaces Aether with Astra (or in this case nothing) for it?"

Also, I guess this means my Chrom!Cynthia isn't hitting 75 speed without a dread fighter Brady. But this really only matters for two enemies, and one of them, Anna, Cynthia wouldn't even be fighting, I'd have her sister do that, so it's really just a problem for NS. Do you personally think the reduced attack power is worth being able to double one enemy? I'm thinking no.

Edited by Alastor15243
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I think it would be worth it Dread Fighter's Mag didn't stink so much. As-is, they're just not able to properly fill the niche of getting 42+5 Spd magical units to 75 without All+2 due to being too weak.

If you want, you could switch Severa to General and give her All+2 over AT (to keep the Thronie double) to give both Severa and Inigo a nice +8 Str.

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I think it would be worth it Dread Fighter's Mag didn't stink so much. As-is, they're just not able to properly fill the niche of getting 42+5 Spd magical units to 75 without All+2 due to being too weak.

It just occurred to me that DF would improve Cynthia's lance usage in exchange though, which might be useful for tackling aegis+ enemies, especially since I don't have brave weapon access... hm...

If you want, you could switch Severa to General and give her All+2 over AT (to keep the Thronie double) to give both Severa and Inigo a nice +8 Str.

Hm... sacrificing Severa's ability to double NS and Anna in exchange for more solid attack power for both units... that IS tempting, especially since I already have SumiaXChrom, MorganXNah, and LucinaXGerome in terms of 75 Spd.

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The main drawback from General Severa is then that your female has 5 Mov. Typically in a pair where the male has GF, you always want to end on the female's turn so you get one more Agg support battle... But here it's more tempting to end on Inigo since then you'll be trading one Agg battle for one 8-Mov battle. If Severa had 6 Mov she'd still be cool with starting from the front.

I'd check how much DF Cynthia is doing with a Lance and see if there are that many enemies you'd want to Lance even with the DF bonus.

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The main drawback from General Severa is then that your female has 5 Mov. Typically in a pair where the male has GF, you always want to end on the female's turn so you get one more Agg support battle... But here it's more tempting to end on Inigo since then you'll be trading one Agg battle for one 8-Mov battle. If Severa had 6 Mov she'd still be cool with starting from the front.

Since I'm not using braves and I'll very VERY rarely, if at all, be attacking enemies with pavise with this pair, it seems to me like that trade is a pretty much universal gain.

I'd check how much DF Cynthia is doing with a Lance and see if there are that many enemies you'd want to Lance even with the DF bonus.

Will do. I doubt it's much, honestly, but it is something to consider.

Edited by Alastor15243
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Remember how I said I would never, ever, come back here? I LIED

So, apotheosis team is all up in here. Just want to see if I'm doing this right (YES I AM USING THE OLD META SUE ME I LIKE IT AND I JUST WANT TO BEAT THE LEVEL NOT ABSOLUTELY MAKE A JOKE OUT OF IT)

All units have limit breaker; avatar is +speed -luck

Chrom @ Paladin

Aether

DS+

Luna

Aggressor

Sumia @ Falcon Knight

Luna

Galeforce

DG+

AS+2

Avatar!Inigo @ Hero

Luna

AT

Galeforce

Aggressor

Sumia!Lucina @ Paladin

Luna

Aether

DS+

Galeforce

Donnel!Kjelle @ Paladin

AT

Luna

Lancefaire

Galeforce

Stahl!Gerome @ Wyvern Lord

Luna

Deliverer

Aggressor

DG+

Morgan @ Dark Flier

Galeforce

Luna

AT

Deliverer

Henry!Owain @ Sage

Vengeance

Vantage

Galeforce

Aggressor

Gaius!Noire @ Dark Flier

Galeforce

Luna

literally no idea help pls

Lon'qu!Laurent @ Sage

Vengeance

Vantage

Tomefaire

Aggressor

Virion!Brady @ Dread Fighter

Aggressor

Tomefaire

Deliverer

Galeforce

Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier

Galeforce

Aether

Luna

Tomefaire

Cordelia @ Falcon Knight

Galeforce

AT

AS+2

Either bond or Sol

Teach @ Berserker

Axefaire

Aggressor

AS+2

Resistance+10

Gregor!Yarne @ Berserker

Axefaire

Aggressor

AT

Deliverer

Gregor @ Berserker

Axefaire

Aggressor

AT

AS+2

Olivia

Lissa

Rally 1

Rally 2

So a couple things.

-Most builds are pretty standard

-I'm thinking about changing one of my dark fliers to a falcon knight for extra staves, should I, and if so, which one?

-The two berserkers together are just a funny thing I'd like to try because Gregor and Yarne are two of my favorite characters, so I'd like to keep them there, but if they completely ruin my team, I'd be willing to do something about them.

-Everyone except for Gregor/Yarne is paired to their spouse; Yarne's spouse is Vaike!Severa

-Again, I'm not going for crushing the level until it never sees the light of day, I'm going for simply beating it without having the worst challenge of my life

-Because of this, I'm mostly looking for skill and class advice because I can never seem to decide what to do about those

So that's all I have to say (I think), so please if you have time look over my builds and help a guy out

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Oh hey, welcome back. Actually I'm pretty sure nobody who's still here has read the first half of the thread, so we probably won't remember that...

All units have limit breaker; avatar is +speed -luck

Chrom@Paladin (Aether/DS+/Luna/Aggressor) x Sumia@Falcon Knight (Luna/Galeforce/DG+/All+2)

Avatar!Inigo@Hero (Luna/AT/Galeforce/Aggressor) x Sumia!Lucina@Paladin (Luna/Aether/DS+/Galeforce)

Donnel!Kjelle@Paladin (AT/Luna/Lancefaire/Galeforce) x Stahl!Gerome@Wyvern Lord (Luna/Deliverer/Aggressor/DG+)

Olivia!Morgan@Dark Flier (Galeforce/Luna/AT/Deliverer) x Henry!Owain@Sage (Vengeance/Vantage/Galeforce/Aggressor)

Gaius!Noire@Dark Flier (Galeforce/Luna/filler/filler) x Lon'qu!Laurent@Sage (Vengeance/Vantage/Tomefaire/Aggressor)

Virion!Brady@Dread Fighter (Aggressor/Tomefaire/Deliverer/Galeforce) x Chrom!Cynthia@Dark Flier (Galeforce/Aether/Luna/Tomefaire)

Cordelia@Falcon Knight (Galeforce/AT/All+2/Bond or Sol) x Teach@Berserker (Axefaire/Aggressor/All+2/Res+10)

Gregor!Yarne@Berserker (Axefaire/Aggressor/AT/Deliverer) + Gregor@Berserker (Axefaire/Aggressor/AT/All+2)

Olivia

Lissa

Rally 1

Rally 2

Chrom and Sumia: Sumia's Spd is slightly overkill, so I'd advise swapping All+2 for Lancefaire for 3 more Atk (most of All+2's other boosts will be negligible on her). Otherwise they're good.

Inigo and Lucina: they should fit well together. Lucina has a lot more killing power than Inigo though, so try to give her the tougher kills and him the weaker ones.

Kjelle and Gerome: Donnel!Kjelle is unfortunately really slow. I think it's worth switching Lancefaire for All+2, which would give you enough Spd to double the Helswath Berserkers. Gerome himself won't ever want to come up front (since support units get twice as many attacks, they effectively get twice the Agg boost, so he wants to stay there as much as possible...), so Luna and Deliverer can be switched out: I'd recommend Hit+20 as the first skills since supporting Wyvern Lords aren't terribly accurate. If a class change is on the table, he could function very well as a Bowfaire Warrior (he'd get +2 class Str, +5 from Bowfaire and only -1 from switching from a Brave Axe to a Brave Bow, while still giving similar +Str/Def boosts and not caring about the loss of Mov).

Morgan and Owain: Morgan would almost always see greater damage output from Ignis than Luna, so unless you prefer the latter for some reason I'd advise switching (typical enemy Res in S.Apo is 50-55, her Str is around 60). She could also benefit from All+2's split Str/Mag boost and Spd boost, and since she's already in an 8-Mov class you might want to swap that over Deliverer. In Owain's case, he'll never actually be seeing much use out of Vantage: he doesn't want to end up front (for the same reason as Gerome: he wants to use his Agg in the back as much as possible, so he'll only be taking one of the pair's three battles and giving the other two to Morgan). Additionally, since you don't have 100% DS, the amount of guaranteed damage you'll be able to do before the enemy hits you is going to be too low to really get many kills (and relying on random DSes for VV strats is a very good way to have the RNG kill you and sink your run). So I'd advise switching it out for Tomefaire or something.

Noire and Laurent: Noire will want to run Astra alongside Luna for massive damage. She doesn't have anything particularly important to put in the last slot due to lacking Tomefaire, so you could either switch to a class she does have a Faire in (Sniper x Sage is a very powerful combo, or you could make her another Falco), or just use a filler skill like Anathema, Mov+1 or even DG+ if you really like it. Laurent is in the same boat as Owain with regards to VV, except he doesn't even want to be coming up front to be using Vengeance- I'd advise just piling on all the +Atk skills he has, and then adding +Hit skills after that, like Anathema and DSp+. Use Agg, TF and All+2 at the least.

Brady and Cynthia: pretty much rock solid. Though since Brady has Cynthia as his ferry, he may want to run Luna over Deliverer.

Cordelia and Vaike: wait, where's Severa? Vaike!Severa is really good. Oh well. Cordelia definitely wants to grab Lancefaire for more damage (probably over Bond/Sol, since Sol restores almost nothing in Apo), and possibly Vengeance over All+2 for more damage as well (she doesn't need the Spd). Vaike is fine- his skillset is pretty limited- though I doubt he'll be seeing much use out of Res+10. The only thing Res is useful for in S.Apo is approaching the Mire DFs in Wave 4, and they only have 74 Atk which does pretty much nothing to about half your pairs.

Gregor and Yarne: they don't ruin your team, but since they lack Galeforce and don't have much Mov they'll pretty much require a Staffbot constantly assigned to take care of them, or else all the battles will be over before they arrive and they'll barely see any action.

Well, that's my advice. Feel free to take and leave it at your discretion. The only really important thing in there (if you're just skimming) is to beware of using VV units without going all out to make sure they're safe, because using those carelessly is an extremely easy way to sink runs. Got bad RNG with a normal combat pair on player phase? That's OK, you can still get them out of there or send help. Left the door open to bad RNG while VVing and it happened? Nothing you can do except hope you don't die.

Also, whenever I mention various amounts of Spd being worth it/not worth it, that's assuming you're using all the Tonics (especially Spd). If you're not... They really help on some of the tougher bosses.

And finally, I don't see your Avatar anywhere... Consider making him a Rallybot just to get him in somewhere.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Remember how I said I would never, ever, come back here? I LIED

So, apotheosis team is all up in here. Just want to see if I'm doing this right (YES I AM USING THE OLD META SUE ME I LIKE IT AND I JUST WANT TO BEAT THE LEVEL NOT ABSOLUTELY MAKE A JOKE OUT OF IT)

So a couple things.

-Most builds are pretty standard

-I'm thinking about changing one of my dark fliers to a falcon knight for extra staves, should I, and if so, which one?

-The two berserkers together are just a funny thing I'd like to try because Gregor and Yarne are two of my favorite characters, so I'd like to keep them there, but if they completely ruin my team, I'd be willing to do something about them.

-Everyone except for Gregor/Yarne is paired to their spouse; Yarne's spouse is Vaike!Severa

-Again, I'm not going for crushing the level until it never sees the light of day, I'm going for simply beating it without having the worst challenge of my life

-Because of this, I'm mostly looking for skill and class advice because I can never seem to decide what to do about those

So that's all I have to say (I think), so please if you have time look over my builds and help a guy out

Well, if you're using Limit Breaker & forged Braves, then Apotheosis IS gonna be a joke unless you make a terrible misplay :P

As Czar touched upon, most VV setups you see involve DS+ (i.e. Chrom or Lucina) to guarantee 100% DS. Magical pairs usually have ~94-95% DS, so there's a real chance of whiffing on a Dual Strike or two and ending up getting hit, which will be death if you're low enough HP to abuse Vengeance.

Vaike!Severa & Gregor!Yarne as a pair is SOOO much better than having Yarne paired with Gregor, which will have pretty terrible DS% chance and poor mobility due to 6 Mov & no Galeforce.

I'd also MAYBE recommend dropping a pair for more Staffbots, since right now you have 1 (Lissa) + Olivia. Lissa's not that great due to lacking Dark Mage auras, but she'll do if you're too lazy to Logbook abuse & train up a Spotpass character.

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Testing, testing, is this thing on? :)

Ok, so no shock posting here, I am thinking of some pairings for my Lunatic+ run.

First off, I know I'm going with Chrom x Olivia this, mostly as I've yet to try it (and since they just married last chapter, it's a go). Their skill inheritance's are fairly set (Olivia will likely pass on Luck +4 for it's 'exclusivity' and all).

Next, I plan to unlock conversations with my female avatar, so she needs to remain unmarried to unlock scenes with the endgame characters. She's pretty much off the table until it no longer matters. Sorry, Morgan.

That said, I'm looking at next maximizing Noire as I've been wanting to use her in a run. Galeforce seems far too bloody useful to ignore, so right now I feel I'm really looking at Gaius and Donnel. My gut's leaning Gaius, passing down Sol or Counter, though I don't see her using either too much. Any suggestions on how to make the best Noire?

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I've never used Donnel!Kjelle (in a minmax setting), so no.

It would be worth it if you ever wanted her to be a dodgetank for some reason (she does get a good set of Breakers, Patience and Avo+10).

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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I've never used Donnel!Kjelle (in a minmax setting), so no.

It would be worth it if you ever wanted her to be a dodgetank for some reason (she does get a good set of Breakers, Patience and Avo+10).

So do you use Donnel!Noire with vengeance, or do you use a hard support Noire? If the latter, who do you usually pair her up with?

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I prefer non-GF lead Noire (in a similar fashion to Vaike/Henry!Nah). Pair with Galeboy, give him kill 1, switch and give her kill 2. Since you don't have Agg or GF you have a ton of extra skillslots to play with and it's actually pretty fun.

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So I've altered my team for apotheosis based on what Czar and Thwomp King said.

~I switched Gregor with Severa because I just would like it better and it would help a lot. Severa is the daughter of Vaike, she's a hero, and has skills (LB, GF, AT, Luna, and Axefaire).

~I switched Vaike with my avatar (+speed -luck). He's going with Cordelia and he's a dread fighter with LB, ignis, AT, Aggressor, and probably AS+2.

~I gave my units various skills that were recommended.

Alright, now the questions. They all deal with Owain, Laurent, Brady, and Noire.

~Would you mind explaining Sniper x Sage? I mean don't me wrong, I love the idea (snipers are one of my favorite classes), but can you just explain why it's better than Dark Flier or Falcoknight?

~I'm kinda nervous about weapon uses for Owain, Brady and Laurent. Celica's Gale doesn't have many uses and I'm shaky about running out during the level. Would sorcerer be a better idea for waste with 30 uses? I feel like it would be but I don't know.

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So I've altered my team for apotheosis based on what Czar and Thwomp King said.

~I switched Gregor with Severa because I just would like it better and it would help a lot. Severa is the daughter of Vaike, she's a hero, and has skills (LB, GF, AT, Luna, and Axefaire).

~I switched Vaike with my avatar (+speed -luck). He's going with Cordelia and he's a dread fighter with LB, ignis, AT, Aggressor, and probably AS+2.

~I gave my units various skills that were recommended.

Alright, now the questions. They all deal with Owain, Laurent, Brady, and Noire.

~Would you mind explaining Sniper x Sage? I mean don't me wrong, I love the idea (snipers are one of my favorite classes), but can you just explain why it's better than Dark Flier or Falcoknight?

~I'm kinda nervous about weapon uses for Owain, Brady and Laurent. Celica's Gale doesn't have many uses and I'm shaky about running out during the level. Would sorcerer be a better idea for waste with 30 uses? I feel like it would be but I don't know.

Sniper X Sage basically combines the high damage of a sage support with the incredibly handy ability to attack enemies at 3 range of the sniper. Personally? I'd recommend Berserker instead, especially if you do a no brave weapon run. Why? Sage doesn't provide any useful pair up bonuses besides skill for a physical unit, and the best snipers in the game, the Chrom X Sumia royal family, can reach 75 speed with a berserker support and can't with a sage support.

But the question isn't sage vs berserker for you, it's sniper versus dark flier or falcoknight, so lemme say, unequivocally...

GET YOURSELF A SNIPER, preferably one with aether!

Snipers are absolutely amazing units in apotheosis. Longbows are obscenely useful for taking out several enemies that are absolute nightmares to take on at anything but 3-range. Give Lucina a berserker husband with an accuracy improving skill and watch her lay waste to the most troublesome enemies in apotheosis.

As for your concerns about Celicia's gale, It's fairly easy to get a lot of Celicia's gales, just trade with... who else... Celicia. Honestly as long as you stock all of your magic users with a lot of them, you're not going to run out mid-battle.

Edited by Alastor15243
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Most of Apo's really dangerous bosses have 2 range and low Res, so a Sniper lets you hit them from out of their range (Longbows) and the Sage support hits their weak Res without hitting Aegis+ for massive damage.

Weapon uses generally aren't a problem since you can carry five of them (100 Celica's Gale uses? You won't burn through that in a hurry) and can restock from Chrom whenever you want. Honestly AT is more of a convenience (so you don't have to go get a ton of new weapons after every clear) than it is a necessity to keep from getting stuck.

Keep in mind that Avatar isn't going to have an S support with Cordelia (that 10 DS makes a really big difference), and that Ignis does nothing in the back.

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Most of Apo's really dangerous bosses have 2 range and low Res, so a Sniper lets you hit them from out of their range (Longbows) and the Sage support hits their weak Res without hitting Aegis+ for massive damage.

Weapon uses generally aren't a problem since you can carry five of them (100 Celica's Gale uses? You won't burn through that in a hurry) and can restock from Chrom whenever you want. Honestly AT is more of a convenience (so you don't have to go get a ton of new weapons after every clear) than it is a necessity to keep from getting stuck.

Keep in mind that Avatar isn't going to have an S support with Cordelia (that 10 DS makes a really big difference), and that Ignis does nothing in the back.

So I've altered my team for apotheosis based on what Czar and Thwomp King said.

Awww jeez, the THWOMP thing feels like a distant memory.

Might run FE6 sometime (already did the stat calcs for it) if I can muster the willpower & time to do it, but my current summer student job is pretty draining due to the long-ass hours

~I switched Gregor with Severa because I just would like it better and it would help a lot. Severa is the daughter of Vaike, she's a hero, and has skills (LB, GF, AT, Luna, and Axefaire).

~I switched Vaike with my avatar (+speed -luck). He's going with Cordelia and he's a dread fighter with LB, ignis, AT, Aggressor, and probably AS+2.

Vaike!Severa is fine running those skills. It's worthwhile to consider Hex over Armsthrift to buff both Severa's & Yarne's Hit for consistency purposes, but AT is fine if you're lazy like I am :)

As for the Cordelia x Vaike pairing, I'd recommend just running Vaike. The 10% drop in Dual Strike chance is very considerable.

Alright, now the questions. They all deal with Owain, Laurent, Brady, and Noire.

~Would you mind explaining Sniper x Sage? I mean don't me wrong, I love the idea (snipers are one of my favorite classes), but can you just explain why it's better than Dark Flier or Falcoknight?

~I'm kinda nervous about weapon uses for Owain, Brady and Laurent. Celica's Gale doesn't have many uses and I'm shaky about running out during the level. Would sorcerer be a better idea for waste with 30 uses? I feel like it would be but I don't know.

TBH, I'm not 100% convinced that Snipers > Dark Fliers, since the additional mobility and use of Magic is pretty hefty advantages in Dark Fliers' favour. Longbows are convenient for avoiding Counter/counterattack damage, but stuff like Helswath Berserkers won't 1HKO (though you are forced to heal due to being at <10 HP), and Nightmare Sniper can be killed at 1-range. Not to mention that they won't necessarily kill against the beefier opponents.

They're certainly better than Falcon Knights with Sages though, since Falco's don't have 2-3 range access, lower damage output, and suffer WTD.

Celica's Gale should have no problems in terms of durability. Waste is way more inaccurate and a LOT less consistent, and Sages > Sorcerers for the additional Speed, Skill, & Magic. Staff access is neat too.

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I'm convinced in my completely polarized Apo scenario playstyle, that Snipers and Sages are my only offense.

Specifically, Sniper solo, SagexSage, SniperxSniper, and SniperxRescue Bot depending on the conditions of the map and battles. Dark Flier is just a weaker, more convenient Sage. Rescue gives you perfect movement on positioning, so the mobility argument is somewhat flat. If you banned rescue staves, that might be a convincing standpoint. The option to use Lances might be nice, but more often then not you're going to be using ranged (typically Celica's, but I know some people hold some value with Valflame) all the time (and if you're running one weaponfaire, it's probably tome). Not saying you can't use lances (an option is still an option), but that option is more likely to not be used.

Sage gives strong Magic. Snipers give strong Physical. And if you use faced units, you can plan ahead for 3 range Dual Strikes to clear out Aegis+ enemies. Or you can weaken those enemies from 3 range and clean up with your Sage once (s)he gets lethal.

The funny part about Sorcs (or even Shadowgift Sage), is that instead of accumulating damage (like tomefaire, mag+2, etc), you can accumulate hit instead (hit rate +20, tantivy, etc). You can forge 5 hit instead of 3. The actual raw output from Sorcs isn't really far off from Sage (even from a class point of view, it's only 2 mag off). Granted, Sage will win out due to Spd and Skl boons, but those stats are easily remedied by utilizing specific pair ups and other niche skills (such as, but not limited to, Skl +2, defender, etc.). Consider an ideal V/V unit: Spd threshold = 0 an Skl threshold = 50. You already hit Skl with 38 (base) + 8 (rallies) + 2 (tonic) + 3 (generic pair up). From there, you can choose to pair up for more Skl/Luk or Mag depending on how you want to craft your character (as hit rate vs damage).

And that's completely disregarding any DLC you might be using. If you throw that into the pool, that can be treated as a glorified hit rate +20. The concept that waste misses, but Celica's doesn't is too far off as an assumption. The real tradeoff is the effective damage against the fliers. But who said that you can't run Celica's specifically for those enemies, while using waste for the rest (or at least for enemies with secure hit rate assuming you planned out hit rate from pair up and skills).

Staff access might be used. But you have to keep in mind you should be fielding a noticeable amount of units strictly dedicated towards using Rescue (or staves in general depending on the challenge). How often are you going to be substituting your strongest unit to be a rescue unit for a turn (disregarding dances)?

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I believe there is never a point at which additional rescue staff utility will hurt you. I'd rather use more Sages if only for their offense, they're simply better than Sorcerers. Sorcerers sacrifice a huge amount of hit rating for a minuscule amount of mt by exchanging Celica's for Waste. It's not worth the trade off.

Of course, if you inflate your units' stats with rally and other shenanigans, that loss in hit will be negligible

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Of the current pairings are there any that you think that you can't go without/can't ignore? What pairing do you do every time you play, and why? Sort of a general question, but I want some input for the general feeling of this community on whether or not there are pairings that are almost necessary.

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Of the current pairings are there any that you think that you can't go without/can't ignore? What pairing do you do every time you play, and why? Sort of a general question, but I want some input for the general feeling of this community on whether or not there are pairings that are almost necessary.

Gameplaywise: ChromXSumia, because it gives you two aether users.

Aestheticwise: InigoXSevera. They tend to work well together gameplaywise, but the real reason is that Severa's an all-around unpleasant person to be around and Inigo tends to have unbearable supports for one reason or another, but somehow when you put the two of them together you magically get a functional and kind of adorable relationship.

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