PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[HeoandReo]

Hey, when I eventually get to the children in my guide, I'm planning on talking about a deliberately horrible pairing for each child so that I also explain what NOT to do in addition to what you SHOULD (and also because, as everyone knows, talking about stuff that sucks is a lot of fun).

I'm thinking of going for either the worst pairing for each child or a pairing that's bad in some unique way and highlights a potential mistake with pairings. Here's what I have planned for this:

Sully!Lucina/Chrom!Kjelle (worst pairing in the game because it's the only one that ruins TWO children simultaneously)

Vaike!Owain (Horrific mod clash and no procs)

Gregor!Inigo (Total Class Overlap)

Kellam!Morgan (Gives Morgan NONE of the three things you could want from a mate for the avatar: Unique classes/skills, amazing mods, or a sibling)

Kellam!Yarne (Prevents him from being an effective hard support OR breeding partner)

Would anybody contest these choices? Does anyone have any nominations for other children's worst parents?

I think that Donnel!Inigo is arguably a little worse than Gregor!Inigo, at least when it comes to postgame and possibly for ingame too. Donnel!Severa isn't terrible but is the worst Severa possible. Frederick!Brady also comes to mind as another kid who isn't technically bad but is still the worst Brady possible.

Actually, Donnel/Kellam/Fred are who I'd consider to be the three worst parents in the game. Those three should be integrated in your setup in some way.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[DragonFlames]

Aversa is one of the best three 1st gen wives as far as Avatar's concerned (the other two being Sumia and Cordelia). Her Morgan is probably the worst of the three, but still turns out nicely with +Mag.

Which do you consider to be the best with which combination of Asset/Flaw choices for MaMU?

[Alastor15243]

Which do you consider to be the best with which combination of Asset/Flaw choices for MaMU?

I'd say Cordelia, with +Spd-Lck. Sumia comes with the price of not getting to have Chrom marry Sumia, which creates the best Lucina and the best Cynthia in the game. MaMU!Severa has +7 speed, which is enough to hit 75 speed as a wyvern lord with a berserker husband WITHOUT AS+2, and to top it all off you can pass her axefaire too.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Alastor15243]

It just occurred to me that I've been completely neglecting (at least as a front unit) a class that seems obscenely useful for no-brave runs: The warrior.

It's got average speed, slightly above average skill, fantastic strength, and to top it all off, it's got aegis and pavise piercing! It's basically better than a general in almost every way (a slight strength edge, but the warrior can attack enemies with pavise better anyway so that's largely irrelevant).

I can't believe I ignored this class as a frontliner unit for so long!

I'm currently trying to see what the best setup for a Warrior Morgan would be. By abusing Mystletainn in the back it looks like a Morgan with at least 4 speed and 9 skill can achieve 75 speed and a 100% DS rate as a warrior by pairing up with Stahl!Nah as an assassin equipped with AS+2 and Skl+2, but I'm questioning if that's really the ideal build or if sacrificing the 100% DS rate and going all-out with power by getting a stronger support partner might be the superior build option. What do you guys think?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Which do you consider to be the best with which combination of Asset/Flaw choices for MaMU?

Same as Alastor but with -Def instead so I don't lose any Atk (+7 Spd Morgan can easily be either physical or magical, and since you get two of them I don't really want to lower both Str and Mag).

It just occurred to me that I've been completely neglecting (at least as a front unit) a class that seems obscenely useful for no-brave runs: The warrior.

The main point of Warriors is having the strongest Bows in the game (by 7 Str, which is really huge), which makes them very useful for taking down the Invincisorc (as well as the Wave 4 Sages). Axes aren't too big of a deal since there are lots of other strong Axe classes that give similar pairup boosts. I'd go for the 100% DS if it gives you enough power to 100% ORKO those guys (the Sages are really squishy so even without Braves it shouldn't be too hard), and otherwise sacrifice some reliability for more power in the back.

[Alastor15243]

Oh crap, I just realized I double posted. Ugh. I completely forgot that I had already posted this morning.

Anyway, the main appeal of warriors to me is that it's basically a faster General but with pavgis control, which seems to me like it would be really useful in a no-brave run when both your front and back attacks have to count. Conveniently my current Morgan and Nah are perfectly suited to attempting the 100% DS 75 speed loadout, and I'm going to see how it works out.

[OhSnapSon]

So, the only people left unpaired on my current file are a combination of Donnel, Vaike, Sully, and Nowi. I know that each possible combination is viable, but that's the main reason I'm indecisive. I'm not really concerned with Galeforce, so who should go with whom?

[Alastor15243]

So, the only people left unpaired on my current file are a combination of Donnel, Vaike, Sully, and Nowi. I know that each possible combination is viable, but that's the main reason I'm indecisive. I'm not really concerned with Galeforce, so who should go with whom?

This is incorrect. Kjelle REALLY wants galeforce, and Nowi really can't use it properly with any father but the avatar. go with Donnel x Sully and Vaike x Nowi, those are pretty standard.

[HeoandReo]

So, the only people left unpaired on my current file are a combination of Donnel, Vaike, Sully, and Nowi. I know that each possible combination is viable, but that's the main reason I'm indecisive. I'm not really concerned with Galeforce, so who should go with whom?

This is also going to depend on who their husbands are. Vaike gives a bunch of good physical support skills and some decent class options, while Donnel is a little bit better for a female frontliner due to Galeforce. Gaius completely overshadows him in that regard, but some (in practice, only two) Donnel kids are alright for that purpose.

That being said, Kjelle uses Galeforce a lot better than Nah ever could because unlike Nah, Kjelle has a bunch of procs to take advantage of it with.

Edited July 8, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Ownagepuffs]

This is incorrect. Kjelle REALLY wants galeforce, and Nowi really can't use it properly with any father but the avatar. go with Donnel x Sully and Vaike x Nowi, those are pretty standard.

Donnel!Kjelle is kind of in the same boat and Donnel!Noire. Very underwhelming mods in exchange for galeforce. OTOH, Vaike!Kjelle is legitimately effective (and an old favorite). Really, it's more "Kjelle loses less from Donnel and puts GF to better use than Nah."

[Alastor15243]

Donnel!Kjelle is kind of in the same boat and Donnel!Noire. Very underwhelming mods in exchange for galeforce. OTOH, Vaike!Kjelle is legitimately effective (and an old favorite). Really, it's more "Kjelle loses less from Donnel and puts GF to better use than Nah."

There's a difference between Kjelle and Noire that makes Donnel!Kjelle way better than Donnel!Noire: Innate Astra access.

Donnel!Kjelle is totally serviceable, she makes a great Hero or, my favorite, Bride paired with Dread Fighter, the ultimate minion killing pair since they can each attack whoever the hell they want and pierce any shield skill or dominant defensive stat. She's just not boss-killer material is all.

Vaike!Kjelle, on the other hand, trades the pegasus knight (and troubadour, but that's largely pointless) lines for the thief line (which only gets her access to the trickster class, which is pretty much useless to her), axefaire inheritance, 2 strength, 2 skill and 2 speed. That's... not remotely a good tradeoff. It forces you to waste a galeboy to even use her, and for what real benefit? Her poor initial strength makes Vaike's fantastic strength really a matter of patching up a flaw rather than accentuating a strength like it would be on Severa, Nah or occasionally Gerome, and she's not quite fast enough for the speed difference to really be put to any good use with her class set while still taking advantage of Vaike's axefaire. Unless she goes Hero, but honestly, Hero is a poor class to use on a hard support because it doesn't improve her lead husband's strength any. The best option I can think of is to go AS+2/Luna/Astra/AF and go wyvern lord with an assassin support. But unlike most builds that go wyvern lord she'd have comparatively crappy dual strikes due to her husband going assassin instead of berserker.

Really, you're sacrificing galeforce on a girl who can always handle galeforce for a very tiny mod increase, and that's not a good idea in general. And what's more, other children could use Vaike, but nobody else except maybe Noire can use Donnel, so it's not a free pairing like Donnel!Kjelle is in terms of opportunity cost.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Ownagepuffs]

Remember: it's not as black and white as galeforce > no galeforce. It's the same deal as Noire, but Kjelle is a better unit than Noire.

Vaike!Kjelle can reach 60 Spd as a Wyvern with a Zerker husband and keep Astra/Luna, for instance. No dlc necessary. That gets everything except W2 Sniper, W4 Zerker, and Thronie.

At the end it's just Kjelle sucks less with Donny than Nah does/puts galeforce to better use thanks to innate procs.

[Alastor15243]

Remember: it's not as black and white as galeforce > no galeforce. It's the same deal as Noire, but Kjelle is a better unit than Noire.

Vaike!Kjelle can reach 60 Spd as a Wyvern with a Zerker husband and keep Astra/Luna, for instance. No dlc necessary. That gets everything except W2 Sniper, W4 Zerker, and Thronie.

At the end it's just Kjelle sucks less with Donny than Nah does/puts galeforce to better use thanks to innate procs.

I'm assuming you meant 69 speed, so:

69 speed is a largely meaningless speed threshold for Kjelle. She wants 75 speed or she doesn't care. Mages are the only ones with any business fighting thronie on pretty much any run of the game thanks to his counter and high defense. She doesn't need to fight Thronie, so she doesn't need that high speed.

...Actually, come to think of it, 75 is largely meaningless for her too. Sure, Gaius!Kjelle can hit 75 speed as a wyvern lord, but for what purpose? Pretty much no physical unit is going to be one-rounding the nightmare sniper outside of no holds barred, and a royal sister sniper at 75 speed is all you really need on most runs to take down Anna risk-free, so the speed is largely meaningless on her.

Gaius!Noire, on the other hand, is a unit who is actually well-equipped to fight the enemies she can hit the speed threshold for. Kjelle's really best equipped for tackling minions most of the time, and she's perfectly capable of doing that with Donnel, who's basically a free father for her. That's part of why I generally prefer Gaius!Noire and Donnel!Kjelle over Gaius!Kjelle and some other Noire.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

38(base) +4(mods) +8(Rally) +8(pairup) +2(tonic) =60. There's no way a +4 Wyvern is hitting 69 without LB.

[Alastor15243]

38(base) +4(mods) +8(Rally) +8(pairup) +2(tonic) =60. There's no way a +4 Wyvern is hitting 69 without LB.

Ahhh. Sorry, missed the "No DLC necessary".

[Zihark49]

I'm new to awakening and still wrapping my head on using children. I'm playing my first run of normal and these are the pairs I have:

Stahl x Sully

Vaike x Miriel

Chrom x Sumia

Gregor x Nowi

Future pairs:

Libra x Lissa

MaMu x Lucina

someone with Cherche

Not the best, but oh well. I can make a better team my next run. My main question is what classes should the children use? I only want to use 1-2 second seals per child (Normal difficulty doesn't seem to warrant it) so I want the children to be in class paths that will make the most sense. I was thinking of having Laurent go Mage-> Dark Flyer. No idea what any other child's class(es) should be.

Edit: One more question. How should the children pair up between themselves? No idea what makes a nice complementary pair in terms of combat and such.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Zihark49

[Alastor15243]

I'm new to awakening and still wrapping my head on using children. I'm playing my first run of normal and these are the pairs I have:

Stahl x Sully

Vaike x Miriel

Chrom x Sumia

Gregor x Nowi

Future pairs:

Libra x Lissa

MaMu x Lucina

someone with Cherche

Not the best, but oh well. I can make a better team my next run. My main question is what classes should the children use? I only want to use 1-2 second seals per child (Normal difficulty doesn't seem to warrant it) so I want the children to be in class paths that will make the most sense. I was thinking of having Laurent go Mage-> Dark Flyer. No idea what any other child's class(es) should be.

Edit: One more question. How should the children pair up between themselves? No idea what makes a nice complementary pair in terms of combat and such.

Laurent Can't go dark flier for two reasons:

1: His mother and father don't pass it down

2: He's a boy and it's a female-exclusive class.

If you meant Dark Knight, however, that's a fairly good class for him in-game, though he doesn't have the skills necessary to pull it off post-game.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Normal gives you enough leeway that there's pretty much no way to get into a pickle, so if you want to learn how things work, I'd advise reclassing them however you like and then remembering what works better than others. Sometimes experience is just going to be more helpful than anything someone on a forum can say.

As for children pairing up, just try to do it in a way that gives every child at least an A support without breaking up any good parent pairs- you tend to get a lot more female children than male ones so giving everyone an S support isn't always an option and you have to look to the A supports instead.

[Zihark49]

Laurent Can't go dark flier for two reasons:

1: His mother and father don't pass it down

2: He's a boy and it's a female-exclusive class.

If you meant Dark Knight, however, that's a fairly good class for him in-game, though he doesn't have the skills necessary to pull it off post-game.

Yep, I'm an idiot. I meant Dark Knight. I'm not too worried about postgame on this run so that works for me.

Normal gives you enough leeway that there's pretty much no way to get into a pickle, so if you want to learn how things work, I'd advise reclassing them however you like and then remembering what works better than others. Sometimes experience is just going to be more helpful than anything someone on a forum can say.

As for children pairing up, just try to do it in a way that gives every child at least an A support without breaking up any good parent pairs- you tend to get a lot more female children than male ones so giving everyone an S support isn't always an option and you have to look to the A supports instead.

I think counting up the pairs I'm using I have parity. I'll have 5 females, with Lucina pairing with the Avatar (Lucina, Cynthia, Nah, Morgan ,and Kjelle) and 4 males (Laurent, Yarne, Gerome, and Owain). Mostly I'm just curious about what makes a pair of units have synergy in combat, since that drives second generation pairs. (not having to worry about child quality).

So child ideas I've got:

Vaike!Laurent Dark Knight

Sumia!Lucina Great Lord (might as well go the classic lord route for a first playthrough

Lon'qu!Yarne Assassin

Stahl!Kjelle General/Great Knight

Gregor!Nah Manakete (Can Manaketes use Sol?)

Chrom!Cynthia Dark Flyer?

Next three I don't really know what class I want to use:

Lucina!Morgan (something but Grandmaster. Not sure what fits)

Libra!Owain

Henry!Gerome

Edited July 10, 2015 by Zihark49

[Alastor15243]

Lucina!Morgan (something but Grandmaster. Not sure what fits)

What's your asset/flaw?

[Zihark49]

What's your asset/flaw?

+Speed-Luck

[Alastor15243]

+Speed-Luck

Jeez, that's one speedy Morgan. She should be able to use whatever class you want, she'll be so fast.

[Lifetaker]

I am playing on my hard mode file and I really don't know what to do with my pairings right now. Sumia is already married to Frederick so I can't change that (they are the only ones that are married). I was stupid and forgot (a few times ^^') that I had to keep Chrom away from F!MU so that I could marry him to Olivia so they have C support now... The only way I can get him to marry Olivia is to marry MU to someone before I start the chapter or to have Chrom marry Sully or Maribelle. For now the pairings that I'm going with are:

Sumia X Frederick

Nowi X Donnel

Cherche X Lon'qu

Tharja X Gaius

Lissa X Ricken (?)

I want to get a Morgan with good magic stats so I am thinking about pairing MU with either Henry or one of the gen 2 kids. Putting Sully with Chrom is also an option, but I don't know if Kjelle and Lucina will end up OK...

I'd really appreciate it if someone could help me out :)

[Shadow Mir]

So child ideas I've got:

Vaike!Laurent Dark Knight

Sumia!Lucina Great Lord (might as well go the classic lord route for a first playthrough

Lon'qu!Yarne Assassin

Stahl!Kjelle General/Great Knight

Gregor!Nah Manakete (Can Manaketes use Sol?)

Chrom!Cynthia Dark Flyer?

Next three I don't really know what class I want to use:

Lucina!Morgan (something but Grandmaster. Not sure what fits)

Libra!Owain

Henry!Gerome

They only one I'd really consider changing is Vaike!Laurent.

Also, manaketes can use Sol, but since outside of Lunatic most enemies would be hard pressed to damage them...

[Alastor15243]

They only one I'd really consider changing is Vaike!Laurent.

Looking at it again, I would probably consider changing Stahl!Kjelle too, because that literally only gives her 2 new promoted classes, Sniper and Bow Knight. In game or postgame that's a bad deal.

Also, Czar, incidentally, after looking at Tiki's mods again, I have to say I disagree with you and stand by my initial claim that Kellam!Morgan is the worst possible Morgan in the game. Tiki has 3 more speed (generally the most important stat in the game), better general mods, and a new class that's situationally useful at least. Sure, Kellam x FeMU makes a better apotheosis team and has better availability than MaMU x Tiki, but in terms of Morgans, I'd honestly say Kellam's is worse.