PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Alastor15243]

i don't have any favorites yet. on my first playthrough i didn't recruit them yet out of fear that i might not pass on vital skills that they might need. that being said, i haven't seen most of their supports. as for their actual benefits, i don't know those for the same reason. i started a new file to work from the ground up, needless to say, i'm not that far, i wanted everything set in stone before i start so i don't mess up.

as for vaike vs stahl specifically, preliminary examinations show that vaike is better all around, gives her axefaire, sol, and armsthrift, all of which are good.

He's not better all-around; Stahl gives her swordfaire and bowfaire, allowing her to use different classes effectively, and also if you want to put Nah in front at any point, Vaike may give her one more speed, but Stahl gives her procstacking power singlehandedly AND gives her a class that totally justifies putting her in front: Sniper.

Basically, when pairing up children, you want to make sure you mesh offensive stats properly. You don't want to pair up a physical and magical unit unless their pairup bonuses transition into each other, like Bride supporting a magic user or Dread Fighter supporting a weapon user. Also, from an aesthetic perspective, a lot of Inigo and Nah's supports are... unpleasant, especially if you dare to pair those two together (it's horrifying). Inigo's best supports are probably FeMorgan, Kjelle, and Severa (Vaike!Severa and Frederick!Inigo is a pairing I do pretty much every time since General and Paladin work so well together). As for Nah, well lacking galeforce she can't be paired with Laurent, Yarne, Gerome or a Male Avatar. She has to be paired with one of the three (four if you're doing FeMU) galeboys. Inigo's the only one likely to be physical, so if you're doing a physical Nah and a male MU, you're gonna have to pair those two together (get ready for pain). Alternatively you can give her Stahl and then have her be a bride to support Sage Lon'qu!Brady with Limit Breaker, All Stats +2, Str+2, Bowfaire and maybe Luna. Or you could do Luna and Astra and drop Str+2. The advantage of this is that you can then attack Aegis units with lances by putting Nah up front, though you'll lack a faire for it.

[Wayward Alchemist]

So I just got Apo and I'm planning my pairings.

Chrom x Maribelle: Usually I wouldn't consider this pairing, but Sage Lucy with all of the Dual+ Skills sounds pretty legit. Also, while there are better Bradys, Chrom!Brady is basically what Lon'Qu!Laurent wishes he was.

Olivia x Henry: Zerker Inigo gets Axefaire, Vantage, Vengance, and Galeforce, while also being a great physical support. IDK what physical units and classes are relevant, though.

E: Dread Fighter might be good, too. I'm not sure what is and what isn't good for Apotheosis.

FeMU (+Spd -Str) x Laurent/Brady: My magical children will be the father of Morgan. Not sure if Lonky!Laurent or Chrom!Brady is better, Laurent has better caps but Brady gives RK. Regardless of father he will be marrying Lucy, because I don't care about incest, and the Ylissean royal family is probably already braided without my help. He will be a Celica's Gale Sage, most likely.

These are the ones I have thought of as of now. I would have more, but I gotta get back to work. Any suggestions on other pairings would be great, too.

Edited August 9, 2015 by JothTheConqueror

[Alastor15243]

So I just got Apo and I'm planning my pairings.

Chrom x Maribelle: Usually I wouldn't consider this pairing, but Sage Lucy with all of the Dual+ Skills sounds pretty legit. Also, while there are better Bradys, Chrom!Brady is basically what Lon'Qu!Laurent wishes he was. In what sense? Lon'qu!Laurent is better for breeding Morgans, can VV if that's your thing... Chrom doesn't really give Brady anything he wants.

Olivia x Henry: Zerker Inigo gets Axefaire, Vantage, Vengance, and Galeforce, while also being a great physical support. IDK what physical units and classes are relevant, though.

E: Dread Fighter might be good, too. I'm not sure what is and what isn't good for Apotheosis.

You've just exhausted all of Sumia's viable husbands. Frederick sucks for Cynthia and Gaius, while making an awesome Cynthia, screws over Noire. If you're not doing Chrom!Cynthia, you pretty much HAVE to use Henry.

FeMU (+Spd -Str) x Laurent/Brady: My magical children will be the father of Morgan. Not sure if Lonky!Laurent or Chrom!Brady is better, Laurent has better caps but Brady gives RK. Regardless of father he will be marrying Lucy, because I don't care about incest, and the Ylissean royal family is probably already braided without my help. He will be a Celica's Gale Sage, most likely. Lon'qu!Laurent is definitely better, just look at the mod difference. Lon'qu!Laurent has better speed and magic. Rightful King is really not that good at all, and men generally don't have the space to equip it ever.

These are the ones I have thought of as of now. I would have more, but I gotta get back to work. Any suggestions on other pairings would be great, too.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Vascela]

Lon'qu!Laurent!Morgan is probably the strongest "on paper" Morgan. Even if you skipped out +Mag/-Def, with +Spd/-Str still hits good enough marks on Mag, Skl, and Spd (no need for constant special dance, skills to up skl for 50 vengeance before pair up/rallies, and can double mire fliers with any pair up even Sage/Sage). There are more niche situations for Chrom!Brady!Morgan to not work, but chances are if you were going into Apo with a v/v zerker Inigo, then you probably know what you're doing to the point those niche situations can show.

One issue you might have is that both FeMU and Lon'qu!Laurent as both V/V units (which should not be the case). You might as well have only FeMU or only Laurent do it since there's not point in switching the role mid map (hard to explain that in words).

[Wayward Alchemist]

@Alastor, I wasn't really planning on using Cynthia, tbh, because she is shaky without one of the best fathers in the game. Brady was mostly a byproduct of Lucy, as most of Chrom's other children are, barring maybe Inigo. I was talking about Brady's access to Galeforce. I have no idea what counts as "good" for Apotheosis, I mean I have even heard things about front lines Snipers, so it was a toss-up between two things I would consider "good". Also, for future reference, if you want someone to take something you have to say into account, try not to be so unnecessarily condescending.

@Vascela, would +Mag -Def be a better option? Would the two Speed make a difference? Also, due to Laurent's incurable lack of Galeforce, I was kicking around using him as a staffbot or a support for Mire abuser FeMU with Dual Support+ to crank up Mt and Ht enough to be deadly.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

If you're planning on using physical Inigo, I feel like Frederick or Stahl would be better than Henry, just because luna is more reliable, especially for a physical unit. then you could still use Henry for Cynthia or (if you're hellbent on not using her) Gerome

[izanagi61]

He's not better all-around; Stahl gives her swordfaire and bowfaire, allowing her to use different classes effectively, and also if you want to put Nah in front at any point, Vaike may give her one more speed, but Stahl gives her procstacking power singlehandedly AND gives her a class that totally justifies putting her in front: Sniper.

Basically, when pairing up children, you want to make sure you mesh offensive stats properly. You don't want to pair up a physical and magical unit unless their pairup bonuses transition into each other, like Bride supporting a magic user or Dread Fighter supporting a weapon user. Also, from an aesthetic perspective, a lot of Inigo and Nah's supports are... unpleasant, especially if you dare to pair those two together (it's horrifying). Inigo's best supports are probably FeMorgan, Kjelle, and Severa (Vaike!Severa and Frederick!Inigo is a pairing I do pretty much every time since General and Paladin work so well together). As for Nah, well lacking galeforce she can't be paired with Laurent, Yarne, Gerome or a Male Avatar. She has to be paired with one of the three (four if you're doing FeMU) galeboys. Inigo's the only one likely to be physical, so if you're doing a physical Nah and a male MU, you're gonna have to pair those two together (get ready for pain). Alternatively you can give her Stahl and then have her be a bride to support Sage Lon'qu!Brady with Limit Breaker, All Stats +2, Str+2, Bowfaire and maybe Luna. Or you could do Luna and Astra and drop Str+2. The advantage of this is that you can then attack Aegis units with lances by putting Nah up front, though you'll lack a faire for it.

When you say support do you mean the convo or the bonus? If it's just the bonus i can deal. In fact if it's THAT awful i might do it out of curiosity. But her being able to be a sniper/ bride sounds cool too.

Edited August 9, 2015 by izanagi61

[Vascela]

The speed might make a difference depending on how you play (which might not be v/v SagexSage). You might be able to hit different spd thresholds and run with proc stacking instead.

But if you took a v/v approach, then the Spd only matters to double the mire fliers (because anything else you double will just kill you if you're at 1 HP).

With +Mag/-Def you have a base 49 Spd: +2 tonic +8 rallies + 3 Sage pair up gets you to that 62. If you opted to not V/V, then you might consider different classes for lead/support. If you knew beforehand you did not want to based your strongest pair around V/V, then I would say consider +Spd and look at alternative thresholds that you might be able to reach with different classes (nothing really wrong with proc stacking and non Sage/Sage pairs). On that same note, Maribelle!Lucina also gets 62 Spd with Forseti (if you wanted to play around with no braves and wanted to give Lucina a kill to galeforce off). Not that 62 is the only speed benchmark you should care about (it's really the only one that's applicable for me). But you should weigh in the possible higher spd thresholds a +Spd/-Str Morgan can get.through proc stacking and df or valk support.

As far as Mire goes, it's not that useful. If you wanted a unit who can attack without fear of counter attack and do loads of damage, you're looking at Snipers (I use spotpass + vengeance + Long bow for multiple challenge runs). Mire doesn't really pull as hard as long bow despite it having a range advantage. Even if you chose to ignore spotpass snipers, you can still look at other potential snipers and use Luna + 90+% dual strikes (you'll get good results either way). I wouldn't put him on staff bot duty because he doesn't get falcon knight or valk; being a rescue bot is about movement and magic--not just magic.

Since both have the opportunity to v/v and support, I'd recommend figuring out which one you want each to do. Or you can go a completely separate route and just not v/v with them. Either way, I don't think mire or staff bot is the way for FeMU and Laurent.

Leading will take Tomefaire, Vantage, Vengeance; but it's from there where you include the other big factor skills: hexnathema and dual sup+. Leading can take hexnathema (both)--but it can also take galeforce or even hit rate +20 (both for FeMU). Because both roles and units are v/v malleable, it really comes down to what you want. Keep in mind that unlike Morgan, both FeMU and Laurent will have slightly off Spd stats. You might consider Laurent lead with a DF support to get the additional Spd that Sage/Sage doesn't generate for 62+. But then you have to watch out to see if that +1 Mag from sage/sage matters (which it might not--especially when you are considering MorganxLucina to be the heavy lifters). There's nothing wrong with 2 independent V/V sages. I used two for two different challenge runs because that's what the situation called for. You might not have a use for two (to the point of obsolete), but you also might need two.

[Alastor15243]

@Alastor, I wasn't really planning on using Cynthia, tbh, because she is shaky without one of the best fathers in the game. Brady was mostly a byproduct of Lucy, as most of Chrom's other children are, barring maybe Inigo. I was talking about Brady's access to Galeforce. I have no idea what counts as "good" for Apotheosis, I mean I have even heard things about front lines Snipers, so it was a toss-up between two things I would consider "good". Also, for future reference, if you want someone to take something you have to say into account, try not to be so unnecessarily condescending.

Actually, using "an extremely valuable father" on her is totally worth it, because Sumia gives so much back to Lucina. Chrom x Sumia is easily one of the best pairings in the game, because it works in so many ways, on so many play modes. It gives Lucina amazing speed and galeforce, gives Cynthia amazing speed (though most of it she already had), paladin, sniper and Aether, and allows Chrom to actually fight in apotheosis, alongside Sumia because Sumia actually has all the skills she needs to fight in Apo: Galeforce, a proc (Luna/Ignis/Vengeance), and a faire (in her case Tomefaire). And that's just in Apotheosis. It's also excellent in-game on any difficulty below Lunatic+ (and even then it can be made to work fairly well if you know what you're doing, though I can't say this from experience with that pairing on L+), because it lets you get Lucina galeforce from the moment you recruit her, which makes it a cakewalk to get over her initial hump and make her amazing.

Maribelle!Lucina really only has one advantage over Sumia!Lucina, and that's 2 (4 if you count Mag+2, but that's only ever equipped on a frontliner on no DLC runs) more magic, and she's inferior in everything else, so unless you're doing special challenge runs, there's really no reason to use her. And as Brady's the only galeboy who gets everything he wants from his mother (though due to it being from a gender class replacement Maribelle can't fight in apotheosis like Sumia can) he can focus entirely on mods, namely speed, so giving him Chrom (who only boosts skl and spd by 1 each rather than Virion's 2 or Lon'qu's 3) is a waste. Also, Rightful King, while amazingly useful in-game, is pretty much garbage for Apotheosis outside of a Chrom!Inigo!Morgan 100% proc build (which is ify outside of no-brave runs). Aether is the superior skill, and Cynthia's the only second child Chrom can pass it to without giving up Galeforce for two children.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Wayward Alchemist]

Hmm... What about FeMU as a Luna Sage or Ruin Sorcerer or something similar, then on the Galeforce action, switch to Laurent, attack, and VV+Renewal for Enemy Phase? IDK.

[Vascela]

Chrom can fight in Apo (if not more centered on him of the pair) due to leading with Sniper (both Sumia and Maribelle give magical dual strikes) with no need for procs (well, you could procstack Chrom if you wanted to). The only difference is the likelyhood of Sumia leading vs likelyhood of Maribelle (which honestly isn't as good as Chrom leading imo, but it's worth noting). Plus, as I noted earlier, Maribelle!Lucina hits what I'd say is the only relevant benchmark in Spd. And it's not like Maribelle!Lucina can't explore other options for higher Spd. The issue with Sumia is the fat 0 to magic mod which means she doesn't hit the high end marks without dlc. Now, Sumia will be a stronger choice for in game and streetpass over Maribelle. But if your only concern is Apo, there's not much reason to include Cynthia without finding an additional benchmark to revolve her around (which is important for Yoshi's 100% DS team, so there are marks out there--it's finding the application to go with them).

I don't know anything about the 100% crit build Yoshi has, but I don't know if either FeMU or Laurent can do it. Not that you need 100% crit to use high crit, but you might be able to dig through this topic and find the specific skillset + pairing.

And if you're doing V/V, I'd stay away from renewal. That means you constantly have to go back down to 1 HP--which means you probably aren't getting you're money's worth. At that point, you might just consider dropping vengeance based strats if you aren't comfortable with your units at low hp.

[Xenomata]

...so I kinda rushed into Lunatic without really thinking about what I wanted to do...

...I at least got to chapter 4 and unlocked DLC, ergo EXPonential Growth.

I don't really understand any of that no braves, no DLC stuff, nor do I see the appeal of purposefully limiting your ability, but whatever, I'm not that advanced yet...

...anyways, I never got a chance to look at what I wanted for anyone but Morgan and Nah... so um...

...this is what I have layed out in terms of what I THINK I want for each child, but I became indecisive, and in the end I need help...

Lucina: Chrom{}Sumia, Final class either Great Lord (physical ability, slightly faster and skilled, much more physically defensive) or Dark Flier (slightly higher magic as flier than strength of Great Lord, less skill and speed, much less defense, Tomefaire becomes option, high range of mobility). Aether, Galeforce, Rightful King, Dual Strike+ or Pavise, Dual Guard+ or Aegis, alternative options in Hit Rate +20, Tomefaire, and Lancefaire.

Owain: Lissa{}Libra or Lissa{}Henry. Final class Sorcerer (Dark Magic may allow for playing around with Ruin, Waste, Mire, and Nosferatu/Aversa's Night): Tomefaire, Astra or Vengeance, Vantage, Wrath, Galeforce.

Inigo: Olivia{}Frederick, Olivia{}Stahl, or Olivia{}Virion. Final class either Hero, Swordmaster, or Sniper. No idea what to do about skills.

Brady: Maribelle{}Henry, Maribelle{}Libra, Maribelle{}Ricken, or Maribelle{}Lon'qu. Final class either Sage (stronger option, allows for effective staff usage), Dark Knight (not as strong, but not as physically frail either, also swords for mixed offense), or Trickster (only if Lon'qu is parent). Galeforce, Tomefaire/Swordfaire, Luna or Astra, Acrobat (Dark Knight) Renewal (Sage) or Counter, and either Aegis or Lucky Seven.

Kjelle: Sully{}Donnel. Final Class either General, Paladin, Swordmaster, Falcon Knight, or Hero (Hero and Paladin being fairly equal in stats needed, save for Hero's skill abundance, Swordmaster and Falcon Knight capitalizing on speed and skill over raw power, and General capitalizing on tanking). Galeforce, -faire skill of classes weapon, either Counter (lower defense/avoid classes) Aegis (higher skill classes) or Dual Support+, either Sol Luna or Astra, and Renewal.

Cynthia: Sumia{}Chrom, Final Class either Dark Flier (see Lucina), Sniper (A role I feel not at all wasted on Cynthia compared to Lucina with her Parallel Falchion without using a Marth) or Sage (cause why not). Galeforce, Aether, -faire skill of classes weapon, Pavise, and either Hit Rate +20 or Aegis (mostly because all of the above classes aren't known for defensive ability)

Severa: Cordelia{}Vaike or Cordelia{}Stahl (and yes i am fine with Severa's hair color with this option). Final class either Hero or Falcon Knight (Hero is stronger, higher skill, and slightly more bulkier, Falcon Knight is mobile and slightly faster). Galeforce, -faire skill of classes weapon (Axefaire in Hero's case on Vaike). last three skills depend on class.

~Luna, Hex or Anathema, and Lifetaker for Hero.

~Sol, Tomebreaker, and Bowbreaker for Falcon Knight.

Gerome: either Cherche{}Lon'qu or Cherche{}Virion (both are fairly similar, but the classes provided differ). Final class either Swordmaster (Lon'qu) or Sniper (Virion), with Wyvern Lord as an alternative for both fathers.

~Swordmaster Gerome would have Swordfaire, Astra, Renewal, Dual Support+, and Lancebreaker (very cookie cutter I know).

~Sniper Gerome would have Bowfaire, Dual Support+, Sol, Counter, and either Focus or Lifetaker.

Yarne: either Panne{}Kellam, Panne{}Frederick, Panne{}Stahl, or Panne{}Gregor. Final class Taguel. Beastbane and Lancebreaker guaranteed skills.

~Wrath, Vantage, and Astra with Gregor and Stahl

~Renewal, Luna, and Acrobat with Kellam.

~Pavise, Aegis, and Luna with Frederick.

Laurent: either Miriel{}Ricken or Miriel{}Kellam. Final class either Sage or Sorcerer (Sage for healing, Sorcerer for Dark Magic). Tomefaire, Dual Support+, either Renewal or Lifetaker, Luna, and last skill depends.

~Hit Rate +20 on Ricken if Sorcerer, otherwise Counter.

~Lucky Seven on Kellam if Sorcerer, otherwise Counter.

Noire: Tharja{}Gaius. Final class either Trickster (Levin Swordplay and healing efficiency), Sniper (pretty much the same as Cynthia, just without any notions to Lucina), Assassin (fastest possible Noire, plus access to swords and bows, just not Archer exclusive bows), Swordmaster (assassin without bows and Swordmaster exclusive weapons) Sorcerer (less favored due to lack of Tomefaire, but it's there), Dark Flier (again, no Tomefaire, but it's there), and Bow Knight (mounted and slower/less skilled Assassin, but it's still a thing). Galeforce and applicable -faire skills are guaranteed.

~Counter, Vengeance or Lifetaker, and Astra on Sniper.

~Sol, Pavise, and Astra on Trickster.

~Luna and Lifetaker on Assassin and Bow Knight

~Astra or Luna, Lifetaker or Sol, and Bowbreaker on Swordmaster

~Hit Rate +20, Vengeance, Vantage, and Counter on Sorcerer and Dark Flier

And just because...

Morgan (F) and Nah: Avatar{}Nowi. Final class Manakete. Ignis, Renewal, Galeforce. Last skills are a tossup between Hit Rate +20, Swordbreaker, Pavise, Aegis, Dual Guard+, and Dual Support+.

...well that's that... I probably shouldn't have been so hasty about entering Lunatic...

Edited August 9, 2015 by Xenomata

[Shadow Mir]

...so I kinda rushed into Lunatic without really thinking about what I wanted to do...

...I at least got to chapter 4 and unlocked DLC, ergo EXPonential Growth.

I don't really understand any of that no braves, no DLC stuff, nor do I see the appeal of purposefully limiting your ability, but whatever, I'm not that advanced yet...

...anyways, I never got a chance to look at what I wanted for anyone but Morgan and Nah... so um...

...this is what I have layed out in terms of what I THINK I want for each child, but I became indecisive, and in the end I need help...

Lucina: Chrom{}Sumia, Final class either Great Lord (physical ability, slightly faster and skilled, much more physically defensive) or Dark Flier (slightly higher magic as flier than strength of Great Lord, less skill and speed, much less defense, Tomefaire becomes option, high range of mobility). Aether, Galeforce, Rightful King, Dual Strike+ or Pavise, Dual Guard+ or Aegis, alternative options in Hit Rate +20, Tomefaire, and Lancefaire.

Owain: Lissa{}Libra or Lissa{}Henry. Final class Sorcerer (Dark Magic may allow for playing around with Ruin, Waste, Mire, and Nosferatu/Aversa's Night): Tomefaire, Astra or Vengeance, Vantage, Wrath, Galeforce.

Inigo: Olivia{}Frederick, Olivia{}Stahl, or Olivia{}Virion. Final class either Hero, Swordmaster, or Sniper. No idea what to do about skills.

Brady: Maribelle{}Henry, Maribelle{}Libra, Maribelle{}Ricken, or Maribelle{}Lon'qu. Final class either Sage (stronger option, allows for effective staff usage), Dark Knight (not as strong, but not as physically frail either, also swords for mixed offense), or Trickster (only if Lon'qu is parent). Galeforce, Tomefaire/Swordfaire, Luna or Astra, Acrobat (Dark Knight) Renewal (Sage) or Counter, and either Aegis or Lucky Seven.

Kjelle: Sully{}Donnel. Final Class either General, Paladin, Swordmaster, Falcon Knight, or Hero (Hero and Paladin being fairly equal in stats needed, save for Hero's skill abundance, Swordmaster and Falcon Knight capitalizing on speed and skill over raw power, and General capitalizing on tanking). Galeforce, -faire skill of classes weapon, either Counter (lower defense/avoid classes) Aegis (higher skill classes) or Dual Support+, either Sol Luna or Astra, and Renewal.

Cynthia: Sumia{}Chrom, Final Class either Dark Flier (see Lucina), Sniper (A role I feel not at all wasted on Cynthia compared to Lucina with her Parallel Falchion without using a Marth) or Sage (cause why not). Galeforce, Aether, -faire skill of classes weapon, Pavise, and either Hit Rate +20 or Aegis (mostly because all of the above classes aren't known for defensive ability)

Severa: Cordelia{}Vaike or Cordelia{}Stahl (and yes i am fine with Severa's hair color with this option). Final class either Hero or Falcon Knight (Hero is stronger, higher skill, and slightly more bulkier, Falcon Knight is mobile and slightly faster). Galeforce, -faire skill of classes weapon (Axefaire in Hero's case on Vaike). last three skills depend on class.

~Luna, Hex or Anathema, and Lifetaker for Hero.

~Sol, Tomebreaker, and Bowbreaker for Falcon Knight.

Gerome: either Cherche{}Lon'qu or Cherche{}Virion (both are fairly similar, but the classes provided differ). Final class either Swordmaster (Lon'qu) or Sniper (Virion), with Wyvern Lord as an alternative for both fathers.

~Swordmaster Gerome would have Swordfaire, Astra, Renewal, Dual Support+, and Lancebreaker (very cookie cutter I know).

~Sniper Gerome would have Bowfaire, Dual Support+, Sol, Counter, and either Focus or Lifetaker.

Yarne: either Panne{}Kellam, Panne{}Frederick, Panne{}Stahl, or Panne{}Gregor. Final class Taguel. Beastbane and Lancefaire guaranteed skills.

~Wrath, Vantage, and Astra with Gregor and Stahl

~Renewal, Luna, and Acrobat with Kellam.

~Pavise, Aegis, and Luna with Frederick.

Laurent: either Miriel{}Ricken or Miriel{}Kellam. Final class either Sage or Sorcerer (Sage for healing, Sorcerer for Dark Magic). Tomefaire, Dual Support+, either Renewal or Lifetaker, Luna, and last skill depends.

~Hit Rate +20 on Ricken if Sorcerer, otherwise Counter.

~Lucky Seven on Kellam if Sorcerer, otherwise Counter.

Noire: Tharja{}Gaius. Final class either Trickster (Levin Swordplay and healing efficiency), Sniper (pretty much the same as Cynthia, just without any notions to Lucina), Assassin (fastest possible Noire, plus access to swords and bows, just not Archer exclusive bows), Swordmaster (assassin without bows and Swordmaster exclusive weapons) Sorcerer (less favored due to lack of Tomefaire, but it's there), Dark Flier (again, no Tomefaire, but it's there), and Bow Knight (mounted and slower/less skilled Assassin, but it's still a thing). Galeforce and applicable -faire skills are guaranteed.

~Counter, Vengeance or Lifetaker, and Astra on Sniper.

~Sol, Pavise, and Astra on Trickster.

~Luna and Lifetaker on Assassin and Bow Knight

~Astra or Luna, Lifetaker or Sol, and Bowbreaker on Swordmaster

~Hit Rate +20, Vengeance, Vantage, and Counter on Sorcerer and Dark Flier

And just because...

Morgan (F) and Nah: Avatar{}Nowi. Final class Manakete. Ignis, Renewal, Galeforce. Last skills are a tossup between Hit Rate +20, Swordbreaker, Pavise, Aegis, Dual Guard+, and Dual Support+.

...well that's that... I probably shouldn't have been so hasty about entering Lunatic...

Erm, yeah... I'll let one of the big names have the final word, but I WILL say these:

-Counter is garbage.

-Taguel is pretty much the absolute worst thing you can do with Yarne. Also, did you mean Lancebreaker?

Edited August 9, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Xenomata]

Erm, yeah... I'll let one of the big names have the final word, but I WILL say these:

-Counter is garbage.

-Taguel is pretty much the absolute worst thing you can do with Yarne. Also, did you mean Lancebreaker?

Counter isn't quite garbage on units who use bows, notably Snipers, since there is no way to attack directly one space next to you with a bow.

Also yeah I don't know how I mixed the two up. Maybe I got dizzy after a while...

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

...so I kinda rushed into Lunatic without really thinking about what I wanted to do...

...I at least got to chapter 4 and unlocked DLC, ergo EXPonential Growth.

I don't really understand any of that no braves, no DLC stuff, nor do I see the appeal of purposefully limiting your ability, but whatever, I'm not that advanced yet...

...anyways, I never got a chance to look at what I wanted for anyone but Morgan and Nah... so um...

...this is what I have layed out in terms of what I THINK I want for each child, but I became indecisive, and in the end I need help...

Lucina: Chrom{}Sumia, Final class either Great Lord (physical ability, slightly faster and skilled, much more physically defensive) or Dark Flier (slightly higher magic as flier than strength of Great Lord, less skill and speed, much less defense, Tomefaire becomes option, high range of mobility). Aether, Galeforce, Rightful King, Dual Strike+ or Pavise, Dual Guard+ or Aegis, alternative options in Hit Rate +20, Tomefaire, and Lancefaire. Sumia!Lucina always goes either Sniper or Dark Flier. since she has DS+ to reach 100%, I prefer her as the sniper.

Owain: Lissa{}Libra or Lissa{}Henry. Final class Sorcerer (Dark Magic may allow for playing around with Ruin, Waste, Mire, and Nosferatu/Aversa's Night): Tomefaire, Astra or Vengeance, Vantage, Wrath, Galeforce. Wrath is bad, don't use it. Also Sage is better than Sorcerer in every way. I run Libra!Lissa and I use TF, GF, Vengeance, Astra, and Aggressor.

Inigo: Olivia{}Frederick, Olivia{}Stahl, or Olivia{}Virion. Final class either Hero, Swordmaster, or Sniper. No idea what to do about skills. I'd recommend Frederick so Stahl can be used somewhere else. He's great then as either a paladin or a hero. With skills you can go really anywhere. I can't really help too much with skills because I'm not sure if you're using LB enough, or if you like armsthrift, or things like that

Brady: Maribelle{}Henry, Maribelle{}Libra, Maribelle{}Ricken, or Maribelle{}Lon'qu. Final class either Sage (stronger option, allows for effective staff usage), Dark Knight (not as strong, but not as physically frail either, also swords for mixed offense), or Trickster (only if Lon'qu is parent). Galeforce, Tomefaire/Swordfaire, Luna or Astra, Acrobat (Dark Knight) Renewal (Sage) or Counter, and either Aegis or Lucky Seven. Use Lon'qu. All he needs is speed and Lon'qu is best for that and doesn't hurt anyone else. Oh and another thing: DON'T EVER USE TRICKSTER. It's an incredibly shitty Dread Fighter. If you want mixed, go dread fighter, but I think he's better as a sage.

Kjelle: Sully{}Donnel. Final Class either General, Paladin, Swordmaster, Falcon Knight, or Hero (Hero and Paladin being fairly equal in stats needed, save for Hero's skill abundance, Swordmaster and Falcon Knight capitalizing on speed and skill over raw power, and General capitalizing on tanking). Galeforce, -faire skill of classes weapon, either Counter (lower defense/avoid classes) Aegis (higher skill classes) or Dual Support+, either Sol Luna or Astra, and Renewal. Paladin is the best but I suppose hero could work. for skills, don't use counter on anyone, it's useless in apotheosis. So is aegis. So is dual support + arguably. Give her luna and astra for proc stacking and then a faire, GF, and AT if you want it.

Cynthia: Sumia{}Chrom, Final Class either Dark Flier (see Lucina), Sniper (A role I feel not at all wasted on Cynthia compared to Lucina with her Parallel Falchion without using a Marth) or Sage (cause why not). Galeforce, Aether, -faire skill of classes weapon, Pavise, and either Hit Rate +20 or Aegis (mostly because all of the above classes aren't known for defensive ability) Either Dark Flier or Sniper

Severa: Cordelia{}Vaike or Cordelia{}Stahl (and yes i am fine with Severa's hair color with this option). Final class either Hero or Falcon Knight (Hero is stronger, higher skill, and slightly more bulkier, Falcon Knight is mobile and slightly faster). Galeforce, -faire skill of classes weapon (Axefaire in Hero's case on Vaike). last three skills depend on class.

~Luna, Hex or Anathema, and Lifetaker for Hero.

~Sol, Tomebreaker, and Bowbreaker for Falcon Knight.

Either one works. Just use whoever the other one for Nah since they're her best fathers as well. Either way, use the standard GF, Luna (and astra if Stahl is the father), AT if you want, and faire (make sure to pass axefaire from vaike)

Gerome: either Cherche{}Lon'qu or Cherche{}Virion (both are fairly similar, but the classes provided differ). Final class either Swordmaster (Lon'qu) or Sniper (Virion), with Wyvern Lord as an alternative for both fathers. Henry is actually best for Gerome because he gives a hit rate skill and berserker, but Virion also works because he can give bowfaire for Gerome's warrior class. Plus it would also free up Virion for Panne. For skills, use Aggressor, faire, AS+2 and anathema. After that it's pretty much whatever

~Swordmaster Gerome would have Swordfaire, Astra, Renewal, Dual Support+, and Lancebreaker (very cookie cutter I know).

~Sniper Gerome would have Bowfaire, Dual Support+, Sol, Counter, and either Focus or Lifetaker.

Yarne: either Panne{}Kellam, Panne{}Frederick, Panne{}Stahl, or Panne{}Gregor. Final class Taguel. Beastbane and Lancefaire guaranteed skills. Taguel is an awful class, and I'd recommend against using it. Also, if you agreed with what I said before, then you could have Virion free for Panne, which gives him Hit+20 allowing him to fully reach his potential as a berserker. stahl also gives this skill, but he'll most likely be with Cordelia or Nowi so... Anyway, use same skills as Gerome except Hit+20 instead of anathema

~Wrath, Vantage, and Astra with Gregor and Stahl

~Renewal, Luna, and Acrobat with Kellam.

~Pavise, Aegis, and Luna with Frederick.

Laurent: either Miriel{}Ricken or Miriel{}Kellam. Final class either Sage or Sorcerer (Sage for healing, Sorcerer for Dark Magic). Tomefaire, Dual Support+, either Renewal or Lifetaker, Luna, and last skill depends. Use Ricken. Laurent doesn't even need skills. Just give him faire, aggressor, AS+2, and whatever else you want. Alternatively, you could use Gregor on him which lets him do all sorts of things. And like always Sage>>>Sorcerer

~Hit Rate +20 on Ricken if Sorcerer, otherwise Counter.

~Lucky Seven on Kellam if Sorcerer, otherwise Counter.

Noire: Tharja{}Gaius. Final class either Trickster (Levin Swordplay and healing efficiency), Sniper (pretty much the same as Cynthia, just without any notions to Lucina), Assassin (fastest possible Noire, plus access to swords and bows, just not Archer exclusive bows), Swordmaster (assassin without bows and Swordmaster exclusive weapons) Sorcerer (less favored due to lack of Tomefaire, but it's there), Dark Flier (again, no Tomefaire, but it's there), and Bow Knight (mounted and slower/less skilled Assassin, but it's still a thing). Galeforce and applicable -faire skills are guaranteed. She should be a swordfaire Dark Knight. Never use trickster. I suppose she could also be a dark flier actually, but I (and others) prefer dark knight. I run GF, Vengeance, astra, and swordfaire

~Counter, Vengeance or Lifetaker, and Astra on Sniper.

~Sol, Pavise, and Astra on Trickster.

~Luna and Lifetaker on Assassin and Bow Knight

~Astra or Luna, Lifetaker or Sol, and Bowbreaker on Swordmaster

~Hit Rate +20, Vengeance, Vantage, and Counter on Sorcerer and Dark Flier

And just because...

Morgan (F) and Nah: Avatar{}Nowi. Final class Manakete. Ignis, Renewal, Galeforce. Last skills are a tossup between Hit Rate +20, Swordbreaker, Pavise, Aegis, Dual Guard+, and Dual Support+. Manakete is pretty bad. I'd recommend using a +speed avatar for this one. Also, with this in mind you could do Vaike x Cordelia and Stahl x Olivia instead of what you had because it's a bit better than Frederick x Olivia

...well that's that... I probably shouldn't have been so hasty about entering Lunatic...

I have written my thoughts

[Xenomata]

I have written my thoughts

...I don't have Apothesis or access to DLC classes. All I have is Golden Gaffe. I plan to get all the DLC one day, but I need to get through Lunatic now.

Yeah I agree that Trickster isn't all that great, but most of the other tricksters in the game don't have any magic modifiers or Swordfaire, so they wind up with less power. Noire or Brady, the two with fathers that pass on the appropriate classes, have access to such, and paired with a forged Levin Sword... plus staff usage.

Also I do utilize Armsthrift. I just don't mention it because it isn't an end-game skill that affects anything of note. What I typed down is what I would be using in the end-game chapters/paralogues and Grima.

And my avatar is Speed+, Luck-. I thought that was mentioned earlier? I might be forgetting multiple facts, I apologize...

...though I can't see why Sage is better. At least on children I have down as potential or guaranteed Sorcerers, the only noticable difference is in Skill and defense. All other stats are only different by two (Sorcerer better in Resistance, Sage better in Magic and Speed). And keep in mind, Sorcerer CAN lower the avoid of enemy units, so even with bad skill all I would need to do is increase the accuracy of weapons via forge.

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...I don't have Apothesis or access to DLC classes. All I have is Golden Gaffe. I plan to get all the DLC one day, but I need to get through Lunatic now.

Yeah I agree that Trickster isn't all that great, but most of the other tricksters in the game don't have any magic modifiers or Swordfaire, so they wind up with less power. Noire or Brady, the two with fathers that pass on the appropriate classes, have access to such, and paired with a forged Levin Sword... plus staff usage.

Also I do utilize Armsthrift. I just don't mention it because it isn't an end-game skill that affects anything of note. What I typed down is what I would be using in the end-game chapters/paralogues and Grima.

And my avatar is Speed+, Luck-. I thought that was mentioned earlier? I might be forgetting multiple facts, I apologize...

...though I can't see why Sage is better. At least on children I have down as potential or guaranteed Sorcerers, the only noticable difference is in Skill and defense. All other stats are only different by two (Sorcerer better in Resistance, Sage better in Magic and Speed). And keep in mind, Sorcerer CAN lower the avoid of enemy units, so even with bad skill all I would need to do is increase the accuracy of weapons via forge.

Ah, okay. the setups I gave you will help you for when you do.

But if you want staff usage, you have sage. And if Noire is so spectacular as a dark knight because she gets swords and magic so she can hurt anything.

AT is good. I use it for pretty much everything except for super advanced mega challenge run

Oh I'm sorry I didn't notice it. That's may bad

Sage is better because it's way faster and way stronger. Meaning it's way better in the two most important stats. I guess it can work ingame because of nosferatu, but for the future when you do complete the dlc, always Sage>>>Sorcerer

[Xenomata]

AT is good. I use it for pretty much everything except for super advanced mega challenge runr

Armsthrift IS good, I am most definitely not disagreeing with you. But I mostly unequip it once I begin getting to the end of the game, as there really isn't much point in saving weapons that I'm not going to be needing anymore soon.

Ah, okay. the setups I gave you will help you for when you do.

But if you want staff usage, you have sage. And if Noire is so spectacular as a dark knight because she gets swords and magic so she can hurt anything.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't notice it. That's may bad

Sage is better because it's way faster and way stronger. Meaning it's way better in the two most important stats. I guess it can work ingame because of nosferatu, but for the future when you do complete the dlc, always Sage>>>Sorcerer

Though I do think there are some advantages to Trickster that Sage doesn't have, such as being a part of the Weapon Triangle, ability to Mix Attack with Levin Sword and literally any other sword, as well as naturally having Acc/Avo increasing skills that other Sage options require the correct classes for, as well as the Movement +1 skill if that is up anyones alley. Though that is really just in a "who do I want healing everyone" competition.

Dark Knight is a class I have a hard time seeing the use of. Stat wise, they look similar to Grandmaster, with slightly less Strength and Defense and slightly more Magic and Resistance. Basically a Mounted Grandmaster. Perhaps it's just that I don't see much value in a class with very average stats...

And is there nothing valuable about the other Dark Magic tomes? Ruin with 50 crit, Waste with Double Attacking ability that a mage otherwise needs Celicia's Gale for, Mire with such high range, Aversa's Night being Nosferatu but better, and Goetia being... there. I suppose the low hit rate is nasty, but I have tried to pair everyone up in such a way that hit rate increases are obtained (which is why I also added in Dual Support+ on most sets)

Otherwise, it is noted and thank you. Now to just remember this exists when I DO get all the DLC.

[Shadow Mir]

And is there nothing valuable about the other Dark Magic tomes? Ruin with 50 crit, Waste with Double Attacking ability that a mage otherwise needs Celicia's Gale for, Mire with such high range, Aversa's Night being Nosferatu but better, and Goetia being... there. I suppose the low hit rate is nasty, but I have tried to pair everyone up in such a way that hit rate increases are obtained (which is why I also added in Dual Support+ on most sets)

Otherwise, it is noted and thank you. Now to just remember this exists when I DO get all the DLC.

The issue is, most of those tomes are outclassed by other tomes that don't require a Sorcerer to use (Ruin is outclassed by Katarina's, Goetia loses to Valflame, and Waste, as mentioned earlier, is inferior to Celica's).

EDIT:

Counter isn't quite garbage on units who use bows, notably Snipers, since there is no way to attack directly one space next to you with a bow.

Maybe, but even then, it's not very useful since the damage exchange is NOT in your favor.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

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Though I do think there are some advantages to Trickster that Sage doesn't have, such as being a part of the Weapon Triangle, ability to Mix Attack with Levin Sword and literally any other sword, as well as naturally having Acc/Avo increasing skills that other Sage options require the correct classes for, as well as the Movement +1 skill if that is up anyones alley. Though that is really just in a "who do I want healing everyone" competition.

Dark Knight is a class I have a hard time seeing the use of. Stat wise, they look similar to Grandmaster, with slightly less Strength and Defense and slightly more Magic and Resistance. Basically a Mounted Grandmaster. Perhaps it's just that I don't see much value in a class with very average stats...

And is there nothing valuable about the other Dark Magic tomes? Ruin with 50 crit, Waste with Double Attacking ability that a mage otherwise needs Celicia's Gale for, Mire with such high range, Aversa's Night being Nosferatu but better, and Goetia being... there. I suppose the low hit rate is nasty, but I have tried to pair everyone up in such a way that hit rate increases are obtained (which is why I also added in Dual Support+ on most sets)

Otherwise, it is noted and thank you. Now to just remember this exists when I DO get all the DLC.

With a sage you're out of the weapon triangle, which is better. You're hitting resistance, which is better. You have way higher magic to use staves, which is better. And with magic you don't need acc increasing skills, and sages are fast enough to dodge pretty much everything. If you need a mixed class, Dread Fighter is better than Sage in every way.

Mixed classes are very good, and Gaius!Noire has rather high strength and magic. Grandmasters are also a great class, so a mounted one is pretty awesome

Katarina's>Ruin, Falaflame>Goetia, and Celica's Gale>>>>>>>>>>>Waste. Dark tomes are fairly inaccurate. Nosferatu is better, but it does lack in damage dealing capabilities

No problem fam :) I'll be here

[Vascela]

I wouldn't put that many greater than signs in front of waste. Considering Aversa!Morgan as shadowgift Sage can run waste + hit skills instead of sage + damage skills (so replacing tomefaire, mag+2, and reallocating forge points for things like HR+20). If you ran around with waste + tomefaire + mag +2 to get this extra damage with [probably] sub 100% hit rate; yes, it will probably not get you the better results. On top of that, having shadowgift doesn't lock you into only waste, you can still use Celica's on the fliers that show up in waves 3/4.

edit: Plus, Sorc actually isn't that much worse than Sage for Apo. Yes, Sage has better stats, but Sorc loses out on 2 Mag (which is important to me in multiple challenges), while the 5 Skl is fairly negligible [assuming you allow rallies] and the 2 Spd deficit might change certain tactics depending on mods.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Vascela

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Oh hey, I actually had a question myself.

So, say we have a unit with 60 skill. And their skills are luna, astra, filler, filler, filler. so there's a 60% chance of getting luna, and a 30% chance of getting astra on top of that. So there's still a leftover 10% chance of not getting a proc at all. But what if we added in Sol, or aether, or ignis, or vengeance? What would happen if there were more skills to proc? If the proc chance was over 100%

[Vascela]

Not how proc stacking works. So you have the proc priority: Lethality > Aether > Astra > Sol > Luna > Ignis > Vengeance

With 60 Skl you have 30% chance for Astra 70% chance for Not!Astra. Of the 70% remaining (of the 100%), you have 60% to proc Luna (which is 42%). Now we have 72% of procing something and 28% chance of procing nothing. So you chance of Luna decreases, but you chance of procing something increases.

So when you get higher skill + proc stack you can emulate high % chance of procs. It's always going to be a step behind vengeance in worth, but you also never have to do any calcs--you are at "full power" at the start of maps. Which is convenient at the cost of potency. On paper, the "average damage" of proc stac can be really high, but you never know what damage you will do. So on average you will be very successful and never have to do prep work. But, you have to accept that

1) Average damage is a stat that's never used, you should always consider the individual % chance of astra, luna, and vanilla attacks. Those will be your damage outputs, not your average damage.

2) Never bank on average damage or a specific proc. You have a noticeable sum of vanilla percentage remaining no matter how much you stack. Even with adding in Ignis, aether, whatever; you don't truly have 100% proc. It's always going to be a percent of the remaining procs (because mathematically, it also makes no sense to have 110% chance to proc Vengeance or Luna, and the likes it caps at 100%).

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Not how proc stacking works. So you have the proc priority: Lethality > Aether > Astra > Sol > Luna > Ignis > Vengeance

With 60 Skl you have 30% chance for Astra 70% chance for Not!Astra. Of the 70% remaining (of the 100%), you have 60% to proc Luna (which is 42%). Now we have 72% of procing something and 28% chance of procing nothing. So you chance of Luna decreases, but you chance of procing something increases.

So when you get higher skill + proc stack you can emulate high % chance of procs. It's always going to be a step behind vengeance in worth, but you also never have to do any calcs--you are at "full power" at the start of maps. Which is convenient at the cost of potency. On paper, the "average damage" of proc stac can be really high, but you never know what damage you will do. So on average you will be very successful and never have to do prep work. But, you have to accept that

1) Average damage is a stat that's never used, you should always consider the individual % chance of astra, luna, and vanilla attacks. Those will be your damage outputs, not your average damage.

2) Never bank on average damage or a specific proc. You have a noticeable sum of vanilla percentage remaining no matter how much you stack. Even with adding in Ignis, aether, whatever; you don't truly have 100% proc. It's always going to be a percent of the remaining procs (because mathematically, it also makes no sense to have 110% chance to proc Vengeance or Luna, and the likes it caps at 100%).

Alright, I think I get it now. Thanks

[Shadow Mir]

I wouldn't put that many greater than signs in front of waste. Considering Aversa!Morgan as shadowgift Sage can run waste + hit skills instead of sage + damage skills (so replacing tomefaire, mag+2, and reallocating forge points for things like HR+20). If you ran around with waste + tomefaire + mag +2 to get this extra damage with [probably] sub 100% hit rate; yes, it will probably not get you the better results. On top of that, having shadowgift doesn't lock you into only waste, you can still use Celica's on the fliers that show up in waves 3/4.

edit: Plus, Sorc actually isn't that much worse than Sage for Apo. Yes, Sage has better stats, but Sorc loses out on 2 Mag (which is important to me in multiple challenges), while the 5 Skl is fairly negligible [assuming you allow rallies] and the 2 Spd deficit might change certain tactics depending on mods.

But would I want to waste that many skill slots for marginal benefit? Because at that point, Shadowgift's practicality is rather questionable...