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Keep in mind that Vengeance is a little harder to use on Galeboys that it is on girls, since they're typically upfront for only one KO per turn instead of two. I'd probably go for Ignis myself, but it's not too important.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Strictly the most overkill possible, or just something you can't meaningfully be stronger than? Or something that just has an answer to everything? I'm inclined to say just use Sumia!Lucina x +Mag/-Def Robin, because you'll be able to fiddle with skills (and maybe his class) to take anything on, no matter the scenario.

In Apo, let's go with LB/GF/DSt+/LF/All+2, for maximum non-RNG damage output. Robin can be a Sage with LB/Agg/TF/Hit+20/Hex. Lucina will have 67 Def with a Finn's Lance, so vs Anna and a Vantage+ Spear++ Aether (78 Atk), she'll take 11+44 damage (30 HP remaining). She should have 87 Atk (5/15 forge), which against Anna's 55+3 Def does 14 damage. Robin has 96 Atk with a +5/15 Celica's (20 damage), and thanks to All+2 Lucina hits 75 with a +0 support, so Anna will take 14+20+20+14+20+20 =108 damage, leaving Lucina at 2HP. Hitwise, Lucina is far in the clear, while Robin hits 267 on the nose (don't replace Hit+20 with Anathema support, All+2 and a +3/25 forge though, it'll leave Lucina with 3% listed crit and one of those after an Aether would kill her on Counter). Vs Thronie it's a similar situation, but a +5/15 Levin Sword should be used instead (Robin still does 20 in the back, Lucina has 83 Atk with WTA so 12 damage, Thronie takes 104 from 6 hits and dies).

In short, there's a GL Lucina that's 100% unsurvivable at full HP. Anna needs to be melee'd with a Finn's Lance, anything else with Counter falls to Levins/Spears, and anything without Counter gets mauled by Braves. For non-Apo postgame, switch Hit+20 for All+2 on Robin and they can keep 100% DS without Tonics or Rallies (AT over Hex as well, most likely- Lucina can sacrifice LF for something fun too). And as a nice little side, Morgan will be great.

The Anna calcs are pretty tight though, so you might want to check them before doing all that just in case.

If you want to try a male Wyvern, he'd be the place to do it. Grab a +3 support (Hero, BK, DF or maybe Falco) and he's set.

I guess I was thinking in terms of both overkill AND having an answer for everything. A Great Lord Lucina that can reasonably one shot Anna and just about any other single boss character in Apo sounds pretty sweet though. I've gotten so used to procstacking her with Aether and Luna that running All Stats +2 and Lancefaire almost feels refreshing.

Could I procstack with her and give her a Brave Lance, a Levin Sword, and Finn's Lance. Are there any good ranged weapons she might be able to use? I know Great Lord isn't a super great class, but I really want to see it shine. Is there any way I can get it to work with a Grandmaster pair up?

Luckily, my main Apo/Lunatic+ file already has +Magic, -Def Robin married to Lucina :)

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You could do a procstack, yeah. But don't bother with the Finn's Lance in that case, I only used it because getting a melee KO on Anna is really hard and a Brave Lance wouldn't cut it (too much Counter damage, too much potential Aether damage). Once you add random chance into Lucina's damage output, she'll just need to kill Anna with a Spear to be safe (though why stop there when you can melee? You want the most powerful, after all).

GM is fine. Most anything is fine. You just won't be able to kill Anna like that.

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You could do a procstack, yeah. But don't bother with the Finn's Lance in that case, I only used it because getting a melee KO on Anna is really hard and a Brave Lance wouldn't cut it (too much Counter damage, too much potential Aether damage). Once you add random chance into Lucina's damage output, she'll just need to kill Anna with a Spear to be safe (though why stop there when you can melee? You want the most powerful, after all).

GM is fine. Most anything is fine. You just won't be able to kill Anna like that.

Which Melee weapon then with Procstack? So even with a forged Spear, it would be a bit of a gamble still, huh.... Difficult choices! Great Lord and Sage it is then. If Lucina has Galeforce/Aether/Luna/Limit Break/Dual Strike+, then does Avatar still want Sage with LB/Agg/TF/Hit+20/Hex?

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Which melee weapon? Brave Lance, of course. Anna would only be a gamble if you tried to fight her up close, you could safely take her down at range (unless Robin missed due to no Hex boost, but if that's a concern use Prescience instead). Robin could stay a Sage, or he could be a Berserker.

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Which melee weapon? Brave Lance, of course. Anna would only be a gamble if you tried to fight her up close, you could safely take her down at range (unless Robin missed due to no Hex boost, but if that's a concern use Prescience instead). Robin could stay a Sage, or he could be a Berserker.

Now I'm starting to see why people enjoy using Lucina and Cynthia as Snipers haha. You can just take potshots at Anna using a Long/Double bow without any worry of her getting the best of you with her spear and Aether.

Would Anathema be preferred over Hex on Robin in that case?

Anathema/Limit Break/All Stats +2/Tomefaire/Aggressor?

Being able to have some of the strongest Melee in the game seems cool, but won't Luna + Aether be stronger than All Stats+2 _ Lancefaire most of the time? I also worry that without a strong ranged option, Lucina will find herself too damaged to get in a second attack from Galeforce, and spend most of her time running and healing in between boss-slaying. IDK.

Edited by Lucina's Husband
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Good luck finding something stronger than unsurvivable. More overkill, sure.

Procstack has higher average damage output and is flashy. All+2/LF gives perfect reliability.

A single Aether from Anna is nothing to worry about, 2 range is fine- the issue is combining that with Counter damage- you need to do enough to kill her, but not enough that you die from Counter. It's a fairly tight window, and the answer is not piling on more overkill (if you need proof, try using Astra on EXPonential Growth).

In terms of incoming damage, Lucina won't be hurt by anything that lacks Counter and Vantage+. Anything and everything will fall to two swings of that Brave Lance and Robin's DSes. And you're a Great Lord, no matter what skills you run your ranged options will be the same in Levins and Spears.

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Good luck finding something stronger than unsurvivable. More overkill, sure.

Procstack has higher average damage output and is flashy. All+2/LF gives perfect reliability.

A single Aether from Anna is nothing to worry about, 2 range is fine- the issue is combining that with Counter damage- you need to do enough to kill her, but not enough that you die from Counter. It's a fairly tight window, and the answer is not piling on more overkill (if you need proof, try using Astra on EXPonential Growth).

In terms of incoming damage, Lucina won't be hurt by anything that lacks Counter and Vantage+. Anything and everything will fall to two swings of that Brave Lance and Robin's DSes. And you're a Great Lord, no matter what skills you run your ranged options will be the same in Levins and Spears.

It just seems like such a waste of Sumia! Lucina's high skill to not run procstack lol. Does that mean that I could try running other Procless units in Apo? I'm imagining Maribelle X Chrom with Maribelle's Tomefaire/Magic+2/All Stats+2 and a Celica's Gale making her strong enough to pull weight. Or is Lucina an exception because of Dual Strike +?

If I were to try to Melee Anna, which Lance would I want? Or is it not worth it to try and melee her with procstacking?

Edited by Lucina's Husband
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It just seems like such a waste of Sumia! Lucina's high skill to not run procstack lol. Does that mean that I could try running other Procless units in Apo? I'm imagining Maribelle X Chrom with Maribelle's Tomefaire/Magic+2/All Stats+2 and a Celica's Gale making her strong enough to pull weight. Or is Lucina an exception because of Dual Strike +?

If I were to try to Melee Anna, which Lance would I want? Or is it not worth it to try and melee her with procstacking?

Procless only works because you've got 100% DS. The point of it is to have your damage output fixed so you know exactly what you can and can't kill- imperfect Hit or DS, and your output is random, so you might as well add procs to raise the average damage output. And her Skl is only +4, which isn't actually exceptionally high when parents have an average Skl mod of around +1.

Chrom has DSt+ though, so he can get away with it too.

You can't melee Anna with a procstack. If she Aethers and then you get a proc, you'll take too much damage from Counter and die. It's pretty much suicide, and no weapon will save you. You have to fight at range.

Robin x Lissa? 98.5% at best, they're 6 Skl short (that's with Falco x Sniper, All+2 on both and Skl+2 on Robin). With Chrom, it'll be the same except -3 Skl due to Chrom's lower Skl mod.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Procless only works because you've got 100% DS. The point of it is to have your damage output fixed so you know exactly what you can and can't kill- imperfect Hit or DS, and your output is random, so you might as well add procs to raise the average damage output. And her Skl is only +4, which isn't actually exceptionally high when parents have an average Skl mod of around +1.

Chrom has DSt+ though, so he can get away with it too.

You can't melee Anna with a procstack. If she Aethers and then you get a proc, you'll take too much damage from Counter and die. It's pretty much suicide, and no weapon will save you. You have to fight at range.

Robin x Lissa? 98.5% at best, they're 6 Skl short (that's with Falco x Sniper, All+2 on both and Skl+2 on Robin). With Chrom, it'll be the same except -3 Skl due to Chrom's lower Skl mod.

Okay, I think I understand now. Thanks for clarifying. It's really quite a shame that so many of Chrom's close family and friends (Lissa, Emm, Frederick, Maribelle, Sully) end up being close to useless on Apo haha.

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No, Maribelle can fight well with a Chrom S support, and Robin x Lissa isn't really bad.

Skills for Maribelle/Lissa?

Galeforce/Tomefaire/All Stats + 2/Limit Breaker/Magic +2 or Dual Support + or Renewal or Demoiselle? And which enemies would they best stick to fighting in Apo?

Sage for Lissa and Valkyrie for Maribelle?

Edited by Lucina's Husband
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Magic+2 is unnecessary if you're sacking with All Stats+2 imo. For Maribelle, I'd go for either DSp+ or Lifetaker, while Lissa probably w/ DSp+. Though mind you, Lissa isn't really suited for Apo (at least not inherently...).

Edited by Formerly Colm
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I only got lissa/Cherche and Ricken/Henry left to marry and both will give good results but you guys seem to prefer Ricken!Owain/Henry!Gerome over Henry!Owain/Ricken!Gerome why is that?

is hexathema and probably a +hit forge enough to make Zerker Gerome as reliable as Sniper/BK Gerome? and is the gain in dmg compared to Sniper/BK worth the loss of another VV unit?

my guess is that you keep Owain in the back most of the time making VV less important and Luna a decent alternative while still getting more dmg from Zerkerome but idk never got around to understand why one over the other.

This is for my Apo file and i would just like to know why one pairing would be better than the other.

Edited by Animaillusionaria
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Well I think I got it settled, though I need help with kid pairings... kind of.

Grandmaster!FeMu x Hero!IChrom!Inigo

Wyvern Lord!Chrom!Inigo!Morgan x Hero!Vaike!Nah

The only two pairings I have so far. However, I have the classes planned.

Stahl!Gerome is going to be a Bowfaire Warrior most likely.

Gaius!Cynthia is going to be a Falcon Knight... maybe Dark Flier, depends on how her stats end up.

Henry!Owain is going to be a Dark Knight until I eventually get Dread Fighter.

Virion!Yarne is a Berserker obvs.

Lon'qu!Severa is Hero.

Libra!Brady is a Sage most likely...

Olivia!Lucina is probably going to be Great Lord.

Donnel!Kjelle is... okay, her I don't know.

Gregor!Laurent is Bahsahkah for the time being.

Frederick!Noire is going to be a Sniper.

Edited by Ebony
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Well I think I got it settled, though I need help with kid pairings... kind of.

Grandmaster!FeMu x Hero!IChrom!Inigo

Wyvern Lord!Chrom!Inigo!Morgan x Hero!Vaike!Nah

The only two pairings I have so far. However, I have the classes planned.

Stahl!Gerome is going to be a Bowfaire Warrior most likely.

Gaius!Cynthia is going to be a Falcon Knight... maybe Dark Flier, depends on how her stats end up.

Henry!Owain is going to be a Dark Knight until I eventually get Dread Fighter.

Virion!Yarne is a Berserker obvs.

Lon'qu!Severa is Hero.

Libra!Brady is a Sage most likely...

Olivia!Lucina is probably going to be Great Lord.

Donnel!Kjelle is... okay, her I don't know.

Gregor!Laurent is Bahsahkah for the time being.

Frederick!Noire is going to be a Sniper.

For Kjelle she makes a nice Lancefair Paladin

Edited by Animaillusionaria
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I only got lissa/Cherche and Ricken/Henry left to marry and both will give good results but you guys seem to prefer Ricken!Owain/Henry!Gerome over Henry!Owain/Ricken!Gerome why is that?

Ricken gives Owain Luna and a +5 magic mod, and both of those are indispensable. Owain being a Galeforce male means he wants to run LB/Aggressor/A Faire/Galeforce, and finally a proc. He has all of those except the last one, so Luna is important here. Also Owain's issue is that he can't have both a proc and good speed modifier, so Ricken giving him +5 magic is the next best thing. He is usually used as a magic nuke Sage, though in my experience he's also a great Dread Fighter, because the mods fixes the bad magic cap that class has.

Gerome is going to usually be hard support because he can always get Aggressor, but he can never get Galeforce. He can go magical, but his mods lean him towards being physical. Berserker is usually the best class for hard support because of their ridiculous strength cap, and the pair up bonus that class provides. But Berserkers usually have crap skill, so their accuracy is mitigated with a +hit skill. Someone like Yarne already has Berserker, so he can take an archer dad and get Hit+20. But Gerome starts lacking both, so Henry is ideal because he passes both the Barbarian class, and Hex/Anathema.

The other way around is alright too, just not as optimal. Henry!Owain is cool - gets Vengeance and sweet mods...the issue is that Owain already has Barbarian (and doesn't even use it much), so it's kind of a waste of Owain compared to how Gerome benefits. Also, Libra is usually a favorite father for Owain, because he passes Dark Mage like Henry does, except he's not nearly as much in demand. Ricken!Gerome is pretty solid as a magic hard support, it's just that Henry allows him to do both magic and physical. And do the latter perfectly.

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Ricken!Gerome is pretty solid as a magic hard support, it's just that Henry allows him to do both magic and physical. And do the latter perfectly.

Oh, Ricken!Gerome makes a very nice mixed support too, he's just a little more flexible and and slightly less strong. He has Bowfaire BK as a +3 Spd support, Sage as a magical support, and BF/Hit+20 Warrior for physical (and I'm using him as a Sniper too for 100% DS).

Overall, Henry is better at what he does, though (Hex/Anathema Berserker). You could go either way, I'd lean toward Henry!Gerome not knowing your other pairs.

VV is a bad idea in Apo, by the way. As a rule of thumb, never use it unless you do some battle calcs to figure out a) exactly what you need it for, and b) why VV is the best answer for that situation (or at least why you want to use it). Careless VV use is one of the easiest ways to die in Apo, and no matter how deeply ingrained in the community's memory it is, it's not a toy.

Stahl!Gerome is going to be a Bowfaire Warrior most likely.

Gaius!Cynthia is going to be a Falcon Knight... maybe Dark Flier, depends on how her stats end up.

Henry!Owain is going to be a Dark Knight until I eventually get Dread Fighter.

Virion!Yarne is a Berserker obvs.

Lon'qu!Severa is Hero.

Libra!Brady is a Sage most likely...

Olivia!Lucina is probably going to be Great Lord.

Donnel!Kjelle is... okay, her I don't know.

Gregor!Laurent is Bahsahkah for the time being.

Frederick!Noire is going to be a Sniper.

Gerome is a high Str +0 support, and Hero Lon'qu!Severa is pretty much ran exclusively for that, so that's a must have. Make sure to put All+2 on Severa. Sadly, you seem to be 1 Skl short of having a backup option of 100% DS Hero x Sniper (unless you were to use Assassin, which is inefficient), so swapping Stahl and Virion is a consideration. Since you're not running Yarne with the intent to do 100% DS, the -1 Skl likely won't be a huge loss.

Noire next, since she's not no GF and needs dibs on a Galeboy. Brady and Owain seem to be your only choices; neither will be fast enough to make a difference so you may as well use Owain for the Mov. Unfortunately, this will be a pair where neither side can double Thronie (unless Noire has All+2 and a DF Owain support)- in fact, Noire will need All+2 to avoid being doubled by Anna (Owain should just barely scrape by without it). You might not be seeing much mileage out of them.

Now that that's done, taking quick stock of your +Hit Berserkers, and you have two. Cynthia doesn't need one, Lucina might like one (but is also cool with DF Owain, if Noire gets Brady instead), Kjelle can go with one or a +0. You don't actually have any +0s left though, so might as well give Kjelle one (she'll be a procstack Wyvern with no All+2). The other and Owain (if not with Noire) can be split with Cynthia and Lucina- if it's Brady, he'll need to go with Cynthia. Thus...

Severa x Gerome

Noire x Owain(either)/Brady

Lucina x Owain(DF)/Laurent/Yarne

Cynthia x Owain(either)/Brady/Laurent/Yarne

Kjelle x Laurent/Yarne

If you wind up with Cynthia x Yarne, All+2 on Falco Cynthia and All+2/Skl+2 Sniper Stahl!Yarne can hit 100% DS, so consider doing that over Hit+20 Berserker.

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