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Hey. I'm doing an apotheosis run and am stuck on what to end the children as.

I've made Lonqu!Brady and Ricken!Owain sages. Vaike!Severa a hero with axefaire. Defence+,Luck-Avatar!Yarne and Henry!Gerome are berserkers and I plan on making Virion!Nah a support bride with bowfaire.

I'm stuck in what to do with the rest of the children though. My other children are Stahl!Inigo, Chrom!Cynthia, Sumia!Lucina, Gaius!Noire, Donnel!Kjelle, Gregor!Laurent and Defence+,Luck-Panne!Morgan. Any feedback would be appreciated.

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Inigo - so he has 2 faires at base, and Stahl gives him one more, which means he can run a ton of different things. I'm doing Bowfaire Bow Knight myself, mostly for the pair up bonuses.

Cynthia - She can basically do anything, though I'm trying to decide between Sniper and Tomefaire Dark Flier.

Lucina - See Cynthia, basically, but with one more class. Sniper is probably the best, but I'm doing Great Lord because of aesthetic bias.

Noire - Also works really well as a Sniper, especially with Gaius's mods, though Bowfaire Assassin works too.

Kjelle - Safest option is Lancefaire Paladin (I think). She can also do Wyvern Lord, but needs a +3 spd pair up bonus because of Donnel's crap mods.

Laurent - Probably either Berserker or Sage hard support. I think he can also lead, but don't have much experience here.

Morgan - No idea. Wyvern Lord would be ideal, I think.

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I didn't realise that Owain didn't get Luna or Vengance with Lon'qu, I think he does get some skills to avoid damage though, so they might be helpful...

The funny thing is that there are some log book units that I use to train my healers if they are not at a good staff level. It is the best way rather than put my own units in danger, I'll let the log book units take a few hits and have healers heal them (keeping the healers out of enemy range) to gain staff levels.

I do like to have high movement not just for my combat units, but for my healers as well. That is why I have no real use of Dancer!Olivia because she just doesn't move far enough to be a viable option without boots!

I have some ideas on who to pair with who:

Frederick x Sumia (wow this is a go to pair but it does have a workable Cynthia)

Tharja x Gaius (for the sake of trying galeforce Noire)

Henry x Panne (Still not so sure on this one though)

Robin!Lucina x Henry!Yarne (Yarne at the back)

Chrom!Morgan x Gaius!Noire (Noire as a sniper maybe?)

Frederick!Cynthia x Lon'qu!Owain? (not so sure here)

Damage avoidance isn't so helpful because pretty much nothing can OHKO you, and you can heal with staves after each battle. Thanks to Luna+ and Hawkeye, a lot of conventional tanking skills don't even work, either.

In Apo, heal using ranged Staves like Fortify and Physic to keep your healers away from battle. In the main game, try to protect your healers by having the combat unit stand on the very edge of an enemy's range, so the healer can heal them while staying out of range (and then build a little support from the battle, too!). If you want to run your healers out to the combat units instead, you'll be at risk of losing them unless you know you'll have enough power to kill everything around them before enemy phase, or if they're strong and can take a few hits.

Another benefit of using Logbook units- and you don't need to do this, but it's helpful- is that since you can transfer them between files, you can use Boots on them without needing the two pairs you get normally. If you're patient enough (or get to 50,000 Renown) you can have boots on all your Staffbots.

Fred!Cynthia probably is your best bet, since her other two dads are in pretty high demand. She's a little slow, but you can still make something like Wyvern or Falco work well.

Gaius!Noire is pretty good, she has both Luna and Astra for high damage output. Her main classes are Sniper and Bow Knight.

What Yarne really wants is a +Hit skill. Henry offers him that in Hex and Anathema, so he'll work fine. However, Henry has a lot of good pairs and is usually in high demand, so he's not usually used here. This Yarne will always want to be a Berserker.

You said your Asset/Flaw was +Mag/-Str, right? Since Yarne is a physical support, Lucina will want to be physical too, unfortunately. You might want to change this one.

With Morgan and Noire, Sage x Sniper is a powerful combo that they'll be able to do well. Noire will want LB/GF/Bowfaire/Luna/Astra, and Morgan will want LB/GF/Agg/Tomefaire/Ignis. This should be a good pair.

Fred!Cynthia is physical, Lon'qu!Owain is magical- similar to Lucina and Yarne, you'll want to switch this up. Since Lucina is magical and Yarne is physical, doing Owain x Lucina and Cynthia x Yarne is the quickest fix.

is that extra movement really worth it?

If a pair's low Mov means that another pair gets to a fight before they do and all the kills are gone by the time they arrive, it won't matter how strong they are because they won't get to fight. If you're not doing a full 8 combat pairs, this won't matter much because you have staffbots to lug your units around, but when you are there's both no room for Staffbots and not enough kills to go around, so some pairs are always going to be idle- and usually they'll be the ones who can't move around.

Boots are fine, but you only get two pairs, so they can't fix everything.

Does there happen to be a recent-ish summary post of things around here? I'm thinking of doing another run through, kind of a final one of Awakening before February.

Not that much has changed in how things are done since the last time you were here. Mostly there are just a few more B-tier pairs that are a little better understood than they used to be. It's still procs, GF and hard supports all day long. I've been spending more time on Lunatic+ myself, there's more stuff happening over there.

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Damage avoidance isn't so helpful because pretty much nothing can OHKO you, and you can heal with staves after each battle. Thanks to Luna+ and Hawkeye, a lot of conventional tanking skills don't even work, either.

In Apo, heal using ranged Staves like Fortify and Physic to keep your healers away from battle. In the main game, try to protect your healers by having the combat unit stand on the very edge of an enemy's range, so the healer can heal them while staying out of range (and then build a little support from the battle, too!). If you want to run your healers out to the combat units instead, you'll be at risk of losing them unless you know you'll have enough power to kill everything around them before enemy phase, or if they're strong and can take a few hits.

Another benefit of using Logbook units- and you don't need to do this, but it's helpful- is that since you can transfer them between files, you can use Boots on them without needing the two pairs you get normally. If you're patient enough (or get to 50,000 Renown) you can have boots on all your Staffbots.

Fred!Cynthia probably is your best bet, since her other two dads are in pretty high demand. She's a little slow, but you can still make something like Wyvern or Falco work well.

Gaius!Noire is pretty good, she has both Luna and Astra for high damage output. Her main classes are Sniper and Bow Knight.

What Yarne really wants is a +Hit skill. Henry offers him that in Hex and Anathema, so he'll work fine. However, Henry has a lot of good pairs and is usually in high demand, so he's not usually used here. This Yarne will always want to be a Berserker.

You said your Asset/Flaw was +Mag/-Str, right? Since Yarne is a physical support, Lucina will want to be physical too, unfortunately. You might want to change this one.

With Morgan and Noire, Sage x Sniper is a powerful combo that they'll be able to do well. Noire will want LB/GF/Bowfaire/Luna/Astra, and Morgan will want LB/GF/Agg/Tomefaire/Ignis. This should be a good pair.

Fred!Cynthia is physical, Lon'qu!Owain is magical- similar to Lucina and Yarne, you'll want to switch this up. Since Lucina is magical and Yarne is physical, doing Owain x Lucina and Cynthia x Yarne is the quickest fix.

*snips*

So if I do Yarne x Cynthia what will she need for support? I'm thinking that I might make her a Falcon Knight with Lancefaire and maybe Luna. I think I may have to change Yarne's father potentially (and back to the drawing board for me) to someone who can help out Cyntia better. What is Virion!Yarne like? Ugh so many questions D:

And missing other things like normal. I may go for Ricken!Laurent x Robin!Lucina as another potential option if that will help her get better hits/damage. Especially since the pairs are not totally set.

Edited by TheSilentChloey
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Yarne pretty much always wants to be a +Hit Berserker, it's what he's made to do. Virion!Yarne will do that, just like Henry, only with Hit+20 instead (he's generally considered one of the best Yarnes). With Cynthia, you could try making her a Wyvern Lord instead- it'll drop you down to 69 Spd, but you'll get 8 more Str which is a pretty good deal. She'll still need Lancefaire and Luna (and LB and GF), and has one free slot you can do whatever with. Maybe Deliverer for even more Mov?

If you do want to use her as a Falco, try giving her All+2, and make Virion!Yarne a Sniper with All+2 and Skl+2 instead of his +Hit skills. They'll hit 100% DS that way, so while Yarne's attacks will be weaker they'll always connect (and you'll have a nice 82% Luna as well).

If you used Laurent with Lucina, he'd be a hard support Sage. Like before, Lucina can be in any magical class she likes and hit the same Spd threshold- I recommend DK since it has a strong Ignis and more Mov than Grandmaster, but since Lucina never will be in the back, you won't miss GM's good pairup bonuses.

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Sumia x Chrom

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Lissa x Libra

Miriel x Gregor

Having trouble deciding what the rest should be mostly because of Stahl.

Where should Stahl go?
He seems to be such a good father for Nah, Severa, Inigo and Yarne so I'm having trouble there.

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Don't start with husbands and look for good kids, start with kids and look for good fathers. Otherwise, you're much more likely to wind up with leftovers that don't fit well together, and you have much less to go off of initially. The dads will all be benched eventually, pairings are entirely for the children's sakes, so you should look at it from their perspective.

All of those kids do like Stahl, so he can make great filler if one of them starts to have run low on options.

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Yarne pretty much always wants to be a +Hit Berserker, it's what he's made to do. Virion!Yarne will do that, just like Henry, only with Hit+20 instead (he's generally considered one of the best Yarnes). With Cynthia, you could try making her a Wyvern Lord instead- it'll drop you down to 69 Spd, but you'll get 8 more Str which is a pretty good deal. She'll still need Lancefaire and Luna (and LB and GF), and has one free slot you can do whatever with. Maybe Deliverer for even more Mov?

If you do want to use her as a Falco, try giving her All+2, and make Virion!Yarne a Sniper with All+2 and Skl+2 instead of his +Hit skills. They'll hit 100% DS that way, so while Yarne's attacks will be weaker they'll always connect (and you'll have a nice 82% Luna as well).

If you used Laurent with Lucina, he'd be a hard support Sage. Like before, Lucina can be in any magical class she likes and hit the same Spd threshold- I recommend DK since it has a strong Ignis and more Mov than Grandmaster, but since Lucina never will be in the back, you won't miss GM's good pairup bonuses.

That sounds a lot better than what I thought of before. Sadly I don't have access to limit breaker or agressor because I haven't purchased the DLC yet. Is there other skills that will help or is it best to cut my loses and go get said DLC?

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Assuming you have no access the DLCs for pragmatic reasons, it seems to me that you may as well be better off with the current skills that are available to the kids at your discretion. (Considering the fact that its not for Apotheosis either, which is also DLC...)

Don't mean to discourage you. :x

Edited by Formerly Colm
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If you want to do Apo, I really do recommend getting those DLCs. LB and Agg are obviously important, and Rally Heart is also extremely useful because all my calcs assume you have it- missing it will effectively drop your entire team down a whole speed bracket. Paragon is also pretty great for training, though Iote's Shield isn't too good and can be skipped. And All+2 of course- it's never necessary, but extremely useful to have on hand.

I have all the DLC, and I'd say it as a whole roughly tripled my playtime (not counting theorycrafting, time spent on forums and anything else outside the game but still relating to Awakening).

You're going to have trouble compensating for those skills with others. While you will have more free skillslots, those skills are ran over the alternatives for a reason- going without those big boosters will be a significant challenge run. You'll never be able to take having good Hit for granted, and being 10-12 Spd lower across the board means instead of having a team where everyone doubles most everything, you'll have a team where everyone tries their hardest not to be doubled by the fastest enemies. You'll also lose a significant amount of Atk, both from the skills themselves (Agg+LB gives 20 Atk, over 8 swings of dual strikes that's 160 damage) and from needing to run faster, weaker classes to make ends meet- say goodbye to speedy Wyvern girls. All that's very much possible, and there are people who play exclusively that way or more, but it's a challenge run for sure and not something I'd advise when you both have no experience with the map and mainly play Normal.

Or, if you're planning on getting it eventually in time for the map, but don't have it yet for the grinding process, that's fine! Just stack self-healing skills and the like where they would normally go. Though do consider getting LB3 early, both the skill and the map are really great for training units once EXPonential Growth gets slow.

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If you want to do Apo, I really do recommend getting those DLCs. LB and Agg are obviously important, and Rally Heart is also extremely useful because all my calcs assume you have it- missing it will effectively drop your entire team down a whole speed bracket. Paragon is also pretty great for training, though Iote's Shield isn't too good and can be skipped. And All+2 of course- it's never necessary, but extremely useful to have on hand.

I have all the DLC, and I'd say it as a whole roughly tripled my playtime (not counting theorycrafting, time spent on forums and anything else outside the game but still relating to Awakening).

You're going to have trouble compensating for those skills with others. While you will have more free skillslots, those skills are ran over the alternatives for a reason- going without those big boosters will be a significant challenge run. You'll never be able to take having good Hit for granted, and being 10-12 Spd lower across the board means instead of having a team where everyone doubles most everything, you'll have a team where everyone tries their hardest not to be doubled by the fastest enemies. You'll also lose a significant amount of Atk, both from the skills themselves (Agg+LB gives 20 Atk, over 8 swings of dual strikes that's 160 damage) and from needing to run faster, weaker classes to make ends meet- say goodbye to speedy Wyvern girls. All that's very much possible, and there are people who play exclusively that way or more, but it's a challenge run for sure and not something I'd advise when you both have no experience with the map and mainly play Normal.

Or, if you're planning on getting it eventually in time for the map, but don't have it yet for the grinding process, that's fine! Just stack self-healing skills and the like where they would normally go. Though do consider getting LB3 early, both the skill and the map are really great for training units once EXPonential Growth gets slow.

O.O Damn it! I knew that there was a reason such skills were needed. Still I do plan on eventually getting said maps, so I guess that I will have a rough idea of what to expect when I go into Apo for the first time. And I'll have a workable team as well which is even better.

On an in game playthrough note I am up to chapter 5 for my F!Robin run (+def -lck it is one that I am posting as I go) I was wondering who to pair up with Panne and Codelia (again these two seem to be the hardest to pair up with) I always seem to find that I tend the miss those two in terms of paring up.

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Does anyone have any skill build ideas for a +skill/-luck Morgan with Stahl!Severa?

Also, what would be better for Chrom supporting Sumia, charm or Dual Guard+?

Edited by General Zelgius
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Well usually +hit is considered more valuable then Dual Guard on a hard support, so in a vacuum I'd go with Charm. But class matters; a Sniper won't need Charm nearly as much as a Great Knight would.

I'm planning for my GK Chrom to run DS+/DG+/Charm/Aggressor/Limit Breaker. Might replace Charm with Hit+20 if the former does't suffice.

Edited by Radiant head
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O.O Damn it! I knew that there was a reason such skills were needed. Still I do plan on eventually getting said maps, so I guess that I will have a rough idea of what to expect when I go into Apo for the first time. And I'll have a workable team as well which is even better.

On an in game playthrough note I am up to chapter 5 for my F!Robin run (+def -lck it is one that I am posting as I go) I was wondering who to pair up with Panne and Codelia (again these two seem to be the hardest to pair up with) I always seem to find that I tend the miss those two in terms of paring up.

The rest of the DLC is pretty different from Apo. It does scale with difficulty, so you probably won't even be seeing stat-capping enemies- stuff in RaR3 might have one or two capped stats in Normal, compared with five or six in Lunatic and all stats being above regular caps in Apo. There also aren't any Lunatic+ skills to deal with, and there are more enemies with fewer player deployment slots so different strategies will be encouraged (turtling and tanking as opposed to blazing offense).

Panne would really like Stahl, if you can get him- reclassing Yarne to Cav is the perfect fix for his weapon rank issues, and Stahl provides good all-round pairup bonuses for Panne (reclass her to Wyvern asap for best performance). Ingame, Cord usually prefers things to boost her survival while she feeds on the Mages in Cht.8, but I doubt that's as much of an issue in Normal so you might want to focus on her offense instead- Vaike could be nice for a bunch of Str.

I'm planning for my GK Chrom to run DS+/DG+/Charm/Aggressor/Limit Breaker. Might replace Charm with Hit+20 if the former does't suffice.

Auras usually don't affect the bearer- are you sure Charm will even affect Chrom's Hit?

Either way, GK Chrom with just LB, Rallies and Tonics has just 121 base Hit- he can't even hit 220 with a 5/15 Brave Sword. If you want him fighting bosses, which really is what he should be doing, he needs a lot more. Get rid of DG+ and Charm and use Hit+20 and Prescience instead. You might still need a 4/20 or even 3/25 Brave Lance to get 100% on Anna, but without perfect Hit 100% DS is kinda silly.

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Auras usually don't affect the bearer- are you sure Charm will even affect Chrom's Hit?

Either way, GK Chrom with just LB, Rallies and Tonics has just 121 base Hit- he can't even hit 220 with a 5/15 Brave Sword. If you want him fighting bosses, which really is what he should be doing, he needs a lot more. Get rid of DG+ and Charm and use Hit+20 and Prescience instead. You might still need a 4/20 or even 3/25 Brave Lance to get 100% on Anna, but without perfect Hit 100% DS is kinda silly.

Really? I assumed Charm functioned similar to Anathema, which people love giving to say Gerome to make him work as a Berserker.

I wasn't sure;the plan was to just test it out in like Rogues and Redeemers 3 or something and switch skills as necessary.

Edited by Radiant head
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Oh right, I'm an idiot.

Hit+20 is a no brainer, then. GK looks a lot less appealing if two skills are used up for accuracy, but then again, with no faire, it's not like the slots are needed for anything else.

Edited by Radiant head
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Well, overall a plain GK has the same Atk with a sword or lance as a Sniper with both BF and All+2, but since you're not using a Faire you actually can take advantage of the whole Weapon Triangle Control thing that's bogus almost everywhere else. And with the +Hit/Atk boost from that, combined with the +35 Hit from skills being worth a little more than the +25 from Sniper's higher Skl and All+2, GKs aren't so bad.

Of course, you don't get a +Skl boost from them, and the +Str is the same as Snipers, so it's not all good. I usually use Snipers/BKs for general gamage output and GKs for non-Luna guaranteed KO strats.

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Advice for my pairings and skillsets? Read that I don't need optimal pairings to clear Apotheosis even on Lunatic+, so I'm not too worried about that; I would like some tips on what skills to use though.

Avatar x Cordelia

Chrom x Sumia

Everyone else is unpaired so far lol. Gonna limit break all my characters and would like a balance on physical and magical children. I have the dlcs and don't mind spending hours getting items so armsthrift isn't a must have on any units and I heard most attacks will be done on enemy phases anyways so galeforce on everyone isn't necessary either.

Right now, for Morgan, I have the VVW setup with GF and LB. Severa has AF, LB, GF, Sol and armsthrift but I was thinking Luna instead. Lucina and Cynthia both have Aether, Luna, GF and LB. Getting LF for Cynthia and was thinking of keeping DS+ for Lucina.

I'm all for suggestions and changing skills so guide me my masters, thanks. :)

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Apo doesn't change by difficulty, it'll be the same on Normal and L+.

VVW isn't a good idea- everything has 55 Lck or more there, so your crit rates will be very low without extreme dedication (though 100% crit VV is possible, only Laurent can do it, and it's usually more trouble than it's worth). Sol also won't help too much, enemies have around 50 Def and halve or quarter incoming damage, so most Sol procs will heal you by 5-10 while enemies deal 30-50 to you- there's no way that will keep you alive.

You'll want to focus on player phase offense, killing stuff on your terms, then running to safety with Galeforce and Rescue. Apo is a big open map with small, tight clumps of enemies, so it's not hard to have safe space. Staffbots with Fortify can heal your units after every action, so forget survivability skills and just go for maximum damage output- double stuff, use procs, pack +Hit/Atk skills on your hard supports, etc.

As for your team, what's your Asset/Flaw, and is there anyone else in particular you want to use?

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Apo doesn't change by difficulty, it'll be the same on Normal and L+.

VVW isn't a good idea- everything has 55 Lck or more there, so your crit rates will be very low without extreme dedication (though 100% crit VV is possible, only Laurent can do it, and it's usually more trouble than it's worth). Sol also won't help too much, enemies have around 50 Def and halve or quarter incoming damage, so most Sol procs will heal you by 5-10 while enemies deal 30-50 to you- there's no way that will keep you alive.

You'll want to focus on player phase offense, killing stuff on your terms, then running to safety with Galeforce and Rescue. Apo is a big open map with small, tight clumps of enemies, so it's not hard to have safe space. Staffbots with Fortify can heal your units after every action, so forget survivability skills and just go for maximum damage output- double stuff, use procs, pack +Hit/Atk skills on your hard supports, etc.

As for your team, what's your Asset/Flaw, and is there anyone else in particular you want to use?

Ahh, I see, well then... What would be a good setup for Morgan if Cordelia is the mother, and should I switch from Sol to Lifetaker then? My asset/flaw is Speed/Defense btw.

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What are your thoughts on:

Owain, Inigo, Severa, Nah, Brady

Remaining dads:

Fred, vaike, kellam, lonqu, ricken, libra, henry

Those are some good dads you've got there.

Might as well give Nah Henry, since she loves him and there's not anyone else who's more than above average with him. Since there's no Stahl, Owain will be magical, so let's give him Ricken. That leaves Severa with Vaike and Lon'qu- if she gets Vaike, Brady will get Lon'qu and Inigo can have his choice of Fred and Libra. If she gets Lon'qu, Brady will need Libra and Inigo will need Fred.

If Vaike is given to Nah instead, then Henry is free for pretty much everyone, and you can do a magical Inigo and Lon'qu!Severa at the same time, if you like.

Ahh, I see, well then... What would be a good setup for Morgan if Cordelia is the mother, and should I switch from Sol to Lifetaker then? My asset/flaw is Speed/Defense btw.

+Spd/-Def sets up well for Morgan and Severa to be Wyvern Lords, you'll mainly want them to do that. They can also do Valkyrie well (though slightly worse than if it was +Mag/-Spd), if you want some magical units.

Either way, you'll want to run them both with LB/GF/Ignis/Astra and an appropriate Faire. Valkyries will want Sage husbands, Wyverns want Berserkers (or maybe Heroes/Bow Knights.

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Those are some good dads you've got there.

Might as well give Nah Henry, since she loves him and there's not anyone else who's more than above average with him. Since there's no Stahl, Owain will be magical, so let's give him Ricken. That leaves Severa with Vaike and Lon'qu- if she gets Vaike, Brady will get Lon'qu and Inigo can have his choice of Fred and Libra. If she gets Lon'qu, Brady will need Libra and Inigo will need Fred.

If Vaike is given to Nah instead, then Henry is free for pretty much everyone, and you can do a magical Inigo and Lon'qu!Severa at the same time, if you like.

So basically:

Nah: henry, vaike

Severa; lonqu, vaike, henry

Brady: lonqu, libra, henry

Owain: ricken, henry

Inigo: fred, libra, henry

I originally had stahl!gerome, I guess if I took him off of gerome and gave him to owain, then gerome would probably need henry?

Do you have a shortlist of what you consider the best 3-4ish for each kid?

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