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13 hours ago, amiabletemplar said:

Generally, Donnel is considered better-used with Kjelle than Noire. Kjelle's stats are already decent enough to handle Donny's lackluster mods, and giving Kjelle GF access makes her a true powerhouse. Tharja's mods don't mix well with Donnel's, especially since that means her highest bonus is in Def (which is generally considered useless for Apo). If you have him free, Gaius is a dramatically better choice for Noire's father, though you can still make her a solid Sniper with (say) Virion as a father. (The other +Spd dad is Lon'qu, and there are MUCH better places for him, e.g. fathering Severa.) Heck, even Vaike!Noire wouldn't be bad.

Just to throw out the "generally-recommended" pairings/suggestions, though you should remember these are just one possibility and other options can work: LQ!Severa, Donnel!Kjelle, Gaius!Noire, and Gregor!Laurent are all highly recommended. Mothers should always pass down Galeforce to male children if they can. If Sumia doesn't marry Chrom, she should marry Henry instead (because she has a very limited selection of husbands). If your Avatar marries a first-gen character, you'll end up with 13 second-gen children, so there will be one "bench" character, usually picking Gerome (if Morgan is male) or Nah (if Morgan is female), as they are the least-useful-by-default second-gen characters. Avoid Kellam as a father, and avoid pairings that don't add any new classes (e.g. Gregor!Inigo and Fred!Kjelle) as well as Sumia!Lucina (because this is the only Lucina that cannot get Galeforce).

I think you mean Sully!Lucina because Sumia does hand down Galeforce and Sully is certainly better than Maiden.  Never, ever do Maiden!Lucina as she will just get Chrom's mods +1.

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On 5/4/2017 at 8:33 PM, TheSilentChloey said:

I think you mean Sully!Lucina because Sumia does hand down Galeforce and Sully is certainly better than Maiden.  Never, ever do Maiden!Lucina as she will just get Chrom's mods +1.

Aw poop, yes I did mean Sully!Lucina. And yeah, I figured it went without saying that Maiden!Lucina is the worst possible choice in the whole game. At least Sully!Lucina and Gregor!Inigo have decent mods; Maiden!Lucina is literally the worst possible iteration of any child character. And for no possible story gain, to boot.

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Which one is better?

Stahl! Gerome and Gregor!Nah

Or 

Gregor! Gerome and Stahl! Nah

I know Henry and Panne are one of their better options but I already paired those two together so they're not available.

Also is Vaike! Severa good? I usually do Stahl! Severa because I like that pairing support wise and aesthetics and all, but I want to change a bit in this new file. Thanks .

Edited by charmedx3
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I asked this awhile ago, but if I want to have my Female Robin marry Chrom! Inigo, and have their Male Morgan marry Olivia! Lucina, what would be the best Asset and Flaw for my Avatar as well as classes for Lucina, Morgan, Inigo, and Female Robin? I know that Yarne is generally the best second gen husband but I really want to marry a son of Chrom!

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Chrom x Olivia
M!Robin x Maribelle
Frederick x Sumia
Ricken x Lissa
Lon'qu x Sully
Vaike x Cordelia
Stahl x Panne
Kellam x Miriel
Gaius x Tharja
Donnel x Nowi
Gregor x Cherche

Thoughts?

Edited by Sage of Ylisse
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For my third playthrough, I was thinking of these:

Chrom x  (+Mag/-Luck or Def) Avatar (this one I'm most definitely going to do, which would be the better flaw to go with?)
Sumia x Henry
Panne x Frederick
Sully x Donnel
Tharja x Gauis
Maribelle x Virion
Cherche x Stahl
Nowi x Vaike
Cordelia x Lon'qu
Miriel x Gregor
Lissa x Ricken
Olivia x Libra

Edited by spiderbrush
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On 5/9/2017 at 8:45 PM, charmedx3 said:

Which one is better?

Stahl! Gerome and Gregor!Nah

Or 

Gregor! Gerome and Stahl! Nah

I know Henry and Panne are one of their better options but I already paired those two together so they're not available.

Also is Vaike! Severa good? I usually do Stahl! Severa because I like that pairing support wise and aesthetics and all, but I want to change a bit in this new file. Thanks .

As for Gerome and Nah: neither choice is particularly good (since Gerome and Nah are not especially good children), but if you absolutely have to use these two excellent fathers on these two children, you're better off with Gregor!Gerome and Stahl!Nah. Gerome really, really needs Berserker if he's going to be useful, and Stahl!Nah can always do Archer. In general, Gregor and Stahl are more commonly used on other children that are already fairly strong, to make them true powerhouses; but if these are your only options, it's better to have more kids than less.

21 hours ago, Lucina's Husband said:

I asked this awhile ago, but if I want to have my Female Robin marry Chrom! Inigo, and have their Male Morgan marry Olivia! Lucina, what would be the best Asset and Flaw for my Avatar as well as classes for Lucina, Morgan, Inigo, and Female Robin? I know that Yarne is generally the best second gen husband but I really want to marry a son of Chrom!

Chrom!Inigo!Morgan? The usual best advice still holds: +Spd/-Def, if you want a Morgan that can do just about anything; +Skl/-Def if you'd prefer a physically-inclined one, or one with the highest chance to trigger attacks (sadly, Morgan won't get Aether). +Mag/-Def if you really, really need that Mag for some reason.

Classes depend on what you want to do with them. Do you want a generalist Avatar who can do anything? Well then, anything goes; a +Spd/-Def Avatar is a good choice for basically any class, though Sage or Valkyrie (for magic), or Hero/Archer/Bow Knight (for phys) are decent choices. Marrying Chrom!Inigo means a generally physical build is probably more useful. Similar arguments apply to Olivia!Lucina and Chrom!Inigo!Morgan; the mods are all (slightly) physically-inclined, though Morgan should absolutely be a Berserker so Lucina would probably do best as a BK.

As for Yarne...well, "best" is in the eye of the beholder. There are plenty of reasons why Yarne isn't necessarily a good hubby, especially if you want higher Mag. (Gregor!Laurent or Ricken!Laurent are much better choices for that.)

16 hours ago, Sage of Ylisse said:

Chrom x Olivia
M!Robin x Maribelle
Frederick x Sumia
Ricken x Lissa
Lon'qu x Sully
Vaike x Cordelia
Stahl x Panne
Kellam x Miriel
Gaius x Tharja
Donnel x Nowi
Gregor x Cherche

Thoughts?

Unless you've got your heart set on Fred x Sumia, I would strongly recommend swapping him for Henry. Henry is Cynthia's best father when Chrom is already married. Also, usually Kellam is considered the worst possible father, and putting him on Laurent is almost criminal; at least Fred is a slight step up, if only slight. Generally, Donnel is considered best-used with Sully, because Kjelle is already a fantastic unit whose only real flaw is lacking Galeforce, while Nah is a very limited unit with unfortunate stats (very high Def, which is considered useless for Apotheosis aka Apo, the focus of this thread's optimization advice).

If you're not building for Apo and just want a group that works? Literally do anything you want, except Maiden!Lucina (which is a HUGE and pointless waste), as long as it gets you all the kids. You could do Kellam!Nah!Morgan with a +Def/-Lck Avatar (close to the worst choice you could make) and still sail through the ending no problem, even without any of the DLC. The base game just isn't hard enough to make it matter, if you're prepared and grind out all the skills you can get.

1 hour ago, spiderbrush said:

For my third playthrough, I was thinking of these:

Chrom x  (+Mag/-Luck or Def) Avatar (this one I'm most definitely going to do, which would be the better flaw to go with?)
Sumia x Henry
Panne x Frederick
Sully x Donnel
Tharja x Gauis
Maribelle x Virion
Cherche x Stahl
Nowi x Vaike
Cordelia x Lon'qu
Miriel x Gregor
Lissa x Ricken
Olivia x Libra

Never do -Luck if you can avoid it, nor -HP. They both reduce Str *and* Mag, which reduces your offensive potential, and that's unfortunate. Since you're considering it, it's always best to go with -Def: the only possible hurt it causes is -1 Luck, and that's a pittance. The lost Def and Res really don't matter that much--I promise. Well, maybe in the first couple maps, when you're still levelling. But it'll disappear by the end. +Mag is a little odd paired with Chrom, since he's not magical at all, but Lucina and Morgan will end up relatively speedy and magical, so that's what you'll go for with them.

Overall your choices are pretty solid ones. Since Yarne wants Archer (to get +20 Hit while he sits in the back, Zerker supporting a galegirl), I would swap Fred with Stahl. Gerome is going to be your bench character, so it doesn't matter that Fred is a lackluster dad, while Stahl is a great father that gives Yarne the flexibility he desperately needs. Other than that...hm. Libra!Inigo is an unusual choice, but not bad if you're planning to make him magic-focused (since he gets both Mage and Dark Mage from Libra). Check to make sure you've got an appropriate number of magical girls to pair up with him; if not, consider dropping Libra and using Fred instead, as he makes for a fairly strong physically-inclined Inigo. (Not the absolute best, but a fairly good place to stick Fred if you have to use him.) Everything else looks pretty much as expected.

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18 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Does anyone know a good ending class for Donnel!Kjelle?

Considering that Donnel!Kjelle lacks speed in comparision to her Gaius-fathered version, she can't run 75 Spd Wyvern Lord or Paladin anymore. Instead I'd probably use Bow Knight, but Griffon Rider is another option if you want to keep the flight + higher might from axes. Hero would also work, but has less movement in comparision to the others, similarly to Assassin, which is faster and has more skill for procs while still giving you ranged braves. Assassin would also get you up to 75 Spd again.

If you don't care about doubling the fastest of the fastest enemies however (most of those are more vulnerable to magic anyways), the first two classes are still perfectly fine as they get you to 69 Spd nevertheless.

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11 hours ago, Sias said:

Considering that Donnel!Kjelle lacks speed in comparision to her Gaius-fathered version, she can't run 75 Spd Wyvern Lord or Paladin anymore. Instead I'd probably use Bow Knight, but Griffon Rider is another option if you want to keep the flight + higher might from axes. Hero would also work, but has less movement in comparision to the others, similarly to Assassin, which is faster and has more skill for procs while still giving you ranged braves. Assassin would also get you up to 75 Spd again.

If you don't care about doubling the fastest of the fastest enemies however (most of those are more vulnerable to magic anyways), the first two classes are still perfectly fine as they get you to 69 Spd nevertheless.

I don't know why but I was thinking an underdog/bride combo.  No idea where I saw that but is that workable as well?  (Kjelle does have underdog)

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Underdog most likely is going to give +15 hit since enemies have really high hit. You'd need to stack a lot more avo to be relevant against non-hawkeye enemies. It's pretty much only better than the rhythms and tantivy (except this one doesn't have a level prerequisite). You're either going for the no questions asked HR+20 or an aura for hit.

Wyvern Lord is just the 69 Spd variant of Gaius!Kjelle, which isn't that much of a step down. It might even be worth your while to skip 75 Spd on bride for the extra skill slot and to not be dependent any other skills or pair up for +Spd for 75 (although you could get it). Nothing wrong with Bride though.

 

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6 minutes ago, Vascela said:

Underdog most likely is going to give +15 hit since enemies have really high hit. You'd need to stack a lot more avo to be relevant against non-hawkeye enemies. It's pretty much only better than the rhythms and tantivy (except this one doesn't have a level prerequisite). You're either going for the no questions asked HR+20 or an aura for hit.

Wyvern Lord is just the 69 Spd variant of Gaius!Kjelle, which isn't that much of a step down. It might even be worth your while to skip 75 Spd on bride for the extra skill slot and to not be dependent any other skills or pair up for +Spd for 75 (although you could get it). Nothing wrong with Bride though.

 

So it could in theory work to support a Virion fathered Inigo?

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On 5/11/2017 at 3:55 PM, amiabletemplar said:

Unless you've got your heart set on Fred x Sumia, I would strongly recommend swapping him for Henry. Henry is Cynthia's best father when Chrom is already married. Also, usually Kellam is considered the worst possible father, and putting him on Laurent is almost criminal; at least Fred is a slight step up, if only slight. Generally, Donnel is considered best-used with Sully, because Kjelle is already a fantastic unit whose only real flaw is lacking Galeforce, while Nah is a very limited unit with unfortunate stats (very high Def, which is considered useless for Apotheosis aka Apo, the focus of this thread's optimization advice).

If you're not building for Apo and just want a group that works? Literally do anything you want, except Maiden!Lucina (which is a HUGE and pointless waste), as long as it gets you all the kids. You could do Kellam!Nah!Morgan with a +Def/-Lck Avatar (close to the worst choice you could make) and still sail through the ending no problem, even without any of the DLC. The base game just isn't hard enough to make it matter, if you're prepared and grind out all the skills you can get.

 

I actually changed my mind on some of the pairings. So Ricken is going to be the father of Laurent while Henry is shifted on as Owain's father. So, Kellam is forever alone. Though...I did screw Apothesis a bit.

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1 hour ago, TheSilentChloey said:

So it could in theory work to support a Virion fathered Inigo?

Assuming Sage for Inigo, that's fine. Since Bride is a +2 Spd pair up for magical partners, that Inigo hits 75 on the dot (if that mattered to you).

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On 5/15/2017 at 4:17 AM, Vascela said:

Assuming Sage for Inigo, that's fine. Since Bride is a +2 Spd pair up for magical partners, that Inigo hits 75 on the dot (if that mattered to you).

Thanks :D:

So now I have a different question for my HM run, what is the best ending class for Ricken!Severa as well as skill set up?  I would assume something like Sol/Luna/Galeforce for the skills but as for class I am not so sure.  Would she work best as a DF, Sage or DK?

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1 hour ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Thanks :D:

So now I have a different question for my HM run, what is the best ending class for Ricken!Severa as well as skill set up?  I would assume something like Sol/Luna/Galeforce for the skills but as for class I am not so sure.  Would she work best as a DF, Sage or DK?

While Ricken!Severa is one of the best Sages for Apo, I'd be skeptical for it for the campaign. Since it's HM, all the classes should be fine, but Cordelia's (and by extension, Severa) isn't known for her magic base/growth. Locking her in a tome exclusive might not be a good idea. Sure. Ricken passing tomefaire might alleviate some of that issue. DF and DK in general are really good campaign classes (despite being not as good as Sage in Apo).

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4 hours ago, Vascela said:

While Ricken!Severa is one of the best Sages for Apo, I'd be skeptical for it for the campaign. Since it's HM, all the classes should be fine, but Cordelia's (and by extension, Severa) isn't known for her magic base/growth. Locking her in a tome exclusive might not be a good idea. Sure. Ricken passing tomefaire might alleviate some of that issue. DF and DK in general are really good campaign classes (despite being not as good as Sage in Apo).

For memory she's got Libra!Owain for support to help her a bit, (I'd assume that he's best as a Sage as well?)

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2 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

For memory she's got Libra!Owain for support to help her a bit, (I'd assume that he's best as a Sage as well?)

Sage/Sage is a classic pair for Apo, yeah.

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Just now, Vascela said:

Sage/Sage is a classic pair for Apo, yeah.

Ok so onto the next set up.  What's best for Henry!Cynthia DF or Valkyrie?  She's going to have Chrom!Morgan (Sorc or Sage) as her support.  I'm thinking the following skills:

Limitbreaker, Galeforce, Tomefaire, Luna, Vengence?/Dual Support Plus?

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Assuming +Mag/-Def, Chrom!Morgan at Sage only needs a +2 Spd pair up for 75, Valk and DF will both work for Morgan. Cynthia on the other hand would need some sacrifices for Spd since Sage doesn't offer any +Spd, which probably aren't worth 2 skill slots. Since Valk, while having a higher Spd stat, is not actually faster for doubling, I'd say DF would probably be better. Flying, physical access, +Mov pair up, same magical damage.

Don't want to procstack Vengeance; the point is you know exactly how much damage you need. There's no need to have a layer of RNG on top to ruin a damage calc. Either solo luna or solo vengeance would work fine. Regardless, she has a free slot to play with since she isn't proc stacking. AS+2 doesn't let her hit any relevant marks, but it's an option. Since she has DM, there's nothing wrong with slapping Hex or Anathema on her (although chances are you have enough from bots and certain hard supports). DuSu+ isn't exactly a useful skill since it's usually only giving +5 hit to the lead (which can be relevant on cases where Hexnathema + Charm + Low Damage Forge don't seem to be enough for low hit classes). You have plenty of good options, I'd recommend not picking vengeance as a fifth.

 

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Avatar!Lon'Qu = Morgan [Dread Fighter]
Olivia!Chrom = Lucina [Great Lord] & Inigo [Hero]
Lissa!Libra = Owain [Sage]
Maribelle!Ricken = Brady [Sage]
Sully!Vaike = Kjelle [General]
Sumia!Henry = Cynthia [Dark Flier]
Cordelia!Stahl = Severa [Hero]
Cherche!Frederick = Gerome [Dread Fighter]
Panne!Gregor = Yarne [Taguel]
Miriel!Donnel = Laurent [Dread Fighter]
Tharja!Gaius = Noire [Sniper]
Nowi!Kellam = Nah [Manakete]

I was not quite sure what to do with Laurent. :/ Are these pairings/classes any good?

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8 hours ago, Dangeki said:

Avatar!Lon'Qu = Morgan [Dread Fighter]
Olivia!Chrom = Lucina [Great Lord] & Inigo [Hero]
Lissa!Libra = Owain [Sage]
Maribelle!Ricken = Brady [Sage]
Sully!Vaike = Kjelle [General]
Sumia!Henry = Cynthia [Dark Flier]
Cordelia!Stahl = Severa [Hero]
Cherche!Frederick = Gerome [Dread Fighter]
Panne!Gregor = Yarne [Taguel]
Miriel!Donnel = Laurent [Dread Fighter]
Tharja!Gaius = Noire [Sniper]
Nowi!Kellam = Nah [Manakete]

I was not quite sure what to do with Laurent. :/ Are these pairings/classes any good?

If you're playing for the first time do what you want.

 

If you're optimising for Apo then here is what I've observed to date that seems to be a rule of thumb (take with a grain of salt because I am still not experienced with some of these pair ups):

Morgan is a lot better with either a sibling (Avatar x Chrom) or a second gen parent.  Nothing comes close to a second gen parented Morgan.  Not even the "extra" recruits you can get that are Avatar exclusive support characters.

Lucina's best mother is either Sumia or Robin.  Cynthia will benefit from Chrom because she'll get Aether as well as Lucina.  Mind you Olivia is fine, but not the best choice for Lucina or Inigo as Inigo gets Rightful King which isn't as good as it sounds.  He's better off with Libra (for a mixed magic/physical) or a father that hands him good mods in speed and/or strength as well as a proc other than Sol.

Brady needs mods so it pretty much doesn't matter who his father is so Ricken is fine here or alternatively you could go with Libra and free up Ricken to father someone else (Owain for example).  Of course I don't have much experience with Libra!Owain but from what I read he can do the Vantage/Vengence set up if you're into risky tactics like that.

Kjelle wants galeforce so Donnel is the best father for her even though his mods are not great.  Plus you're freeing up Vaike for a child that will definitely will need him more (Like Nah for example)

Stahl is fine for Severa but I would suggest Gregor or Vaike here for her if you want her to pack a physical punch.  Alternatively Virion or Lon'qu are much better here if you want Severa to hit 75 speed for Apo.

Gerome wants barbarian so Henry or Vaike is better than Frederick here (Gerome is usually in the back of a pairup or benched in favour of Morgan)

Yarne really wants +hit.  Also he won't get the wvyern rider class line from his mother so Frederick is fine here but not the best Virion is also useful if you want a speedy bunny.  Also Taguel isn't as great as it appears on paper as you're locking Yarne and by extension Panne into 1 range weaponry that isn't as good as Manakete's dragonstones that give 1-2 range.  Most people have them as assassins or in other classes that have ranged weapons.

Do not give ANYONE Kellam.  He is the worst father of them all.  If you want go either Gregor or Vaike a much better choice than Kellam who doesn't give Nah anything useful for Apo (since def isn't needed as much as you might think surprisingly).

Tharja x Gaius is a standard and exceptionally great Noire.  She's usually a sniper running galeforce or in the case of my MaMu run a sorcerer with Nostanking at her disposal.

Laurent does benefit from Gregor or a father that adds to his magic (.i.e Libra, Ricken or Henry) with Gergor Laurent can do nostanking with armsthrift making his weapons more durable.

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1 hour ago, TheSilentChloey said:

If you're playing for the first time do what you want.

 

If you're optimising for Apo then here is what I've observed to date that seems to be a rule of thumb (take with a grain of salt because I am still not experienced with some of these pair ups):

Morgan is a lot better with either a sibling (Avatar x Chrom) or a second gen parent.  Nothing comes close to a second gen parented Morgan.  Not even the "extra" recruits you can get that are Avatar exclusive support characters.

Lucina's best mother is either Sumia or Robin.  Cynthia will benefit from Chrom because she'll get Aether as well as Lucina.  Mind you Olivia is fine, but not the best choice for Lucina or Inigo as Inigo gets Rightful King which isn't as good as it sounds.  He's better off with Libra (for a mixed magic/physical) or a father that hands him good mods in speed and/or strength as well as a proc other than Sol.

Brady needs mods so it pretty much doesn't matter who his father is so Ricken is fine here or alternatively you could go with Libra and free up Ricken to father someone else (Owain for example).  Of course I don't have much experience with Libra!Owain but from what I read he can do the Vantage/Vengence set up if you're into risky tactics like that.

Kjelle wants galeforce so Donnel is the best father for her even though his mods are not great.  Plus you're freeing up Vaike for a child that will definitely will need him more (Like Nah for example)

Stahl is fine for Severa but I would suggest Gregor or Vaike here for her if you want her to pack a physical punch.  Alternatively Virion or Lon'qu are much better here if you want Severa to hit 75 speed for Apo.

Gerome wants barbarian so Henry or Vaike is better than Frederick here (Gerome is usually in the back of a pairup or benched in favour of Morgan)

Yarne really wants +hit.  Also he won't get the wvyern rider class line from his mother so Frederick is fine here but not the best Virion is also useful if you want a speedy bunny.  Also Taguel isn't as great as it appears on paper as you're locking Yarne and by extension Panne into 1 range weaponry that isn't as good as Manakete's dragonstones that give 1-2 range.  Most people have them as assassins or in other classes that have ranged weapons.

Do not give ANYONE Kellam.  He is the worst father of them all.  If you want go either Gregor or Vaike a much better choice than Kellam who doesn't give Nah anything useful for Apo (since def isn't needed as much as you might think surprisingly).

Tharja x Gaius is a standard and exceptionally great Noire.  She's usually a sniper running galeforce or in the case of my MaMu run a sorcerer with Nostanking at her disposal.

Laurent does benefit from Gregor or a father that adds to his magic (.i.e Libra, Ricken or Henry) with Gergor Laurent can do nostanking with armsthrift making his weapons more durable.

I'll take note of this thank you! Though I really want stats so I may consider doing Avatar x Chrom. Thanks for the feedback on the pairings too! 

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Okay so I do intend to marry Lon'Qu on my first save. If I will be giving Morgan Galeforce what skill should Lon'Qu pass on to Morgan, or does it not matter since I'm guessing Morgan can get the same classes Lon'Qu can?

Edited by Dangeki
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