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I think that's best too. It's very likely I won't replay the game anytime soon after I finish, so I might as well see what all the other skills do, and get the max out of it as much as I can. Thank you for all the info.

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Base reclassing: reclass at 20 if you're before Cht.11, unless you're stafflocked and you got lucky with a Second Seal from Anna. Reclass at 10 if you're a second gen unit or on your second base reclass and don't have a shortage of Seals.

I'd contest this choice if you're trying to get a child for the game. I master sealed at level 10 for Sumia in order to get her galeforce quickly. It kinda crippled her for the rest of the game, though that might have been because I didn't use her much after chapter 13, but it meant that I had Lucina and Cynthia already with Galeforce (though it took me a bit longer to get Cynthia, but she was a breeze to level up, I just had to give her some beastkillers and target horses). I don't regret the decision, especially since it was mostly about the four primary children I chose to use anyway.

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I mostly designed (not that I had a lot of choices to make) my Paladin Stahl!Inigo with being a good husband for Sniper Donnel!Noire in mind, since the two were leftovers and Inigo has a lot more options than Noire. Now I'm wondering if he will have trouble getting kills, since he seems like my weakest lead (only one below 69 Speed, lowest Skill of all of them, only one without either Vengeance or proc-stack, and then he also has Agg in front). I was planning to have him run LB/GF/Agg/SF/Luna. He has 67 Speed, 73% Luna, and 96% DS. He has 92 Attack in front and Noire has 84 in back. Will he do alright?

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Well, there are possibilities. You could make Noire a Lancefaire General to boost her DS power by quite a bit (you'd lose 3 DS%, but this might be an acceptable tradeoff for +9 Atk). Or, if you managed to fit All+2 on Inigo and switch Noire to Assassin, he'd hit 75 Spd without a major DS/support damage loss. If you don't mind losing a double Galepair, Inigo also has all the skills needed to be an excellent support Berserker. If 8 Mov is really important, Inigo could probably also be a good Bow Knight (-2 Str, +3 Skl, +1 Spd, +ranged Braves) as well, though it doesn't do anything for Spd thresholds (it will boost DS by 1 when Noire's leading for sure, though).

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Thanks! I can't actually have Noire be an Assassin because I'm using Donnel!Noire. The General option seems really interesting, especially in combination with BK. I don't want to make Noire suck either, so the +Speed and +Mov look pretty nice. 93 DS is a little low, I guess.

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I've decided to use Virion!Severa as a Sniper and Gregor!Yarne as an Assassin. Pairing them together gets me 100% DS and I don't really lose out on anything so I think it's a reasonable trade to make.

Frederick goes to Inigo, and Ricken now goes to Laurent. Owain still gets Libra, but I could switch back to Ricken!Owain. Using Laurent as a nuke sounds like fun so I'll probably pair him with Cynthia or Morgan. Alternatively, I COULD have him marry Lucina, and have Robin marry Cynthia instead. I would get the same Morgan, just Robin wouldn't get that sweet 100% DS unless I make him a Sniper or give Cynthia AS+2 over Bowfaire. This really comes down to who I want Ricken!Laurent to end up with since I get the same Morgan either way.

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I've decided to use Virion!Severa as a Sniper and Gregor!Yarne as an Assassin. Pairing them together gets me 100% DS and I don't really lose out on anything so I think it's a reasonable trade to make.

Frederick goes to Inigo, and Ricken now goes to Laurent. Owain still gets Libra, but I could switch back to Ricken!Owain. Using Laurent as a nuke sounds like fun so I'll probably pair him with Cynthia or Morgan. Alternatively, I COULD have him marry Lucina, and have Robin marry Cynthia instead. I would get the same Morgan, just Robin wouldn't get that sweet 100% DS unless I make him a Sniper or give Cynthia AS+2 over Bowfaire. This really comes down to who I want Ricken!Laurent to end up with since I get the same Morgan either way.

I am a total noob with vengance, but a vengance sniper strikes me as a bad idea, since you'd constantly have to make absolutely sure Severa can always attack an enemy with a ranged attack in order to boost up her vengance every turn. Anyone more familiar with Vengance can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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I am a total noob with vengance, but a vengance sniper strikes me as a bad idea, since you'd constantly have to make absolutely sure Severa can always attack an enemy with a ranged attack in order to boost up her vengance every turn. Anyone more familiar with Vengance can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure quite what your qualm is, but vengeance provides a consistent 39 attack, which is both more reliable and often more potent than any other proc. Putting it on a sniper is actually safer than most other classes, IMO, because snipers should never be left in danger on the enemy phase, so there's less of a chance for the weakened vengeance unit to die to some unpredicted threat.

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I'm not sure quite what your qualm is, but vengeance provides a consistent 39 attack, which is both more reliable and often more potent than any other proc. Putting it on a sniper is actually safer than most other classes, IMO, because snipers should never be left in danger on the enemy phase, so there's less of a chance for the weakened vengeance unit to die to some unpredicted threat.

I am a bit of a noob with it too. (I dislike using the skill, but whatever.) I think his or her qualm with it is the fact that vengeance is nearly useless on enemy phase if they manage to reach her because more often then not the enemy will aim for close range combat against a bow user.

Edited by Subsonic

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My point was more that, in my understanding, vengeance works by attacking an enemy that can do reasonable damage to the vengeance user on counterattack, and then the user's second attack uses the boost from vengance to take down a second foe (Unless of course you intentionally somehow keep her away from the range of your fortify bots). But with a sniper, you're dependant on there being a ranged attacker for that first attack every single round, which limits where the vengeance sniper can be sent out.

Edited by Alastor15243

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I am a total noob with vengance, but a vengance sniper strikes me as a bad idea, since you'd constantly have to make absolutely sure Severa can always attack an enemy with a ranged attack in order to boost up her vengance every turn. Anyone more familiar with Vengance can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually what you want to do is make her take an EP for the setup. You need to be careful not to give her too much, but once you're used to it it's very effective.

I'm not sure quite what your qualm is, but vengeance provides a consistent 39 attack, which is both more reliable and often more potent than any other proc. Putting it on a sniper is actually safer than most other classes, IMO, because snipers should never be left in danger on the enemy phase, so there's less of a chance for the weakened vengeance unit to die to some unpredicted threat.

39? Are you not using Tonics?

Anyway, Vengeance's damage is hardly consistent- it's very predictable thanks to a near-universal 100% proc rate, but actually getting yourself down to 1 HP (frequently, as you don't want the Vengeance user to inhibit your Fortify usage) isn't something you can count on being able to do.

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My point was more that, in my understanding, vengeance works by attacking an enemy that can do reasonable damage to the vengeance user on counterattack, and then the user's second attack uses the boost from vengance to take down a second foe (Unless of course you intentionally somehow keep her away from the range of your fortify bots). But with a sniper, you're dependant on there being a ranged attacker for that first attack every single round, which limits where the vengeance sniper can be sent out.

Snipers occupy a very specific niche of doing the vast majority of their combat in scenarios when they can't be counterattacked against, and rarely counterattacking themselves, so there already is a fair bit of limitation on when they should be used. A proper vengeance setup keeps the vengeance unit at as little health as possible when they are to attack, while still remaining safe. So, it stands to reason, that a vengeance sniper, if set up properly, would be able to do their job better in most every way, seeing as they shouldn't be taking many attacks, if any at all. Edited by Rollertoaster

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In Apo, everyone is played that way. Snipers are special for their Skl, pairup bonuses and Longbows, not for their Bow access.

Outside of that, Vengeance Snipers are good for a very different reason: due to their high Skl cap/growth, they're one of the few units who can reliably reach 100% vengeance during the maingame.

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So, I have these pairings, and I'd like to know what should their children's final classes be? Is one of these pairing so god-awful that I should change them?

Chrom x Olivia

FeMu(+Str, -HP) x Inigo

Sully x Kellam

Frederick x Cherche

Stahl x Cordelia

Maribelle x Libra

Lon'qu x Lissa

Gaius x Tharja

Henry x Sumia

Ricken x Miriel

Donnel x Nowi

Vaike x Panne

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Sully x Kellam is fairly useless and Fred x Cherche is terrible all around, but other than those two your pairs look fine. Gerome can be fixed with Gregor (don't see him in use anywhere), or by swapping Vaike and Fred. As for Kjelle, one of her, Noire and Nah is going to be stuck playing hard support- most people do Nah, because she can't get both Luna/Vengeance and Galeforce at the same time and has the lowest Spd out of the bunch. I've done Noire before, though. Nah can make a good support with Virion as her dad (also don't see him). Vaike and Henry are also great dads for support Nahs, though they're both taken. Vaike!Noire can also work well as a support. That would free up either Donnel or Gaius for Kjelle, who is probably the least support-inclined out of the three.

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What skill should I pass down from Henry to Nah? I'm assuming wrath, it seems like it would be the most useful skill for her in general since her class set is magically inclined.

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Sully x Kellam is fairly useless and Fred x Cherche is terrible all around, but other than those two your pairs look fine. Gerome can be fixed with Gregor (don't see him in use anywhere), or by swapping Vaike and Fred. As for Kjelle, one of her, Noire and Nah is going to be stuck playing hard support- most people do Nah, because she can't get both Luna/Vengeance and Galeforce at the same time and has the lowest Spd out of the bunch. I've done Noire before, though. Nah can make a good support with Virion as her dad (also don't see him). Vaike and Henry are also great dads for support Nahs, though they're both taken. Vaike!Noire can also work well as a support. That would free up either Donnel or Gaius for Kjelle, who is probably the least support-inclined out of the three.

I find that FredxCherche works fine. Aegis + Pavise + Dual Guard+ or Dual Support+ + Renewal. Is it the modifiers that are derp? Or is it the average growths?

Vaike!Nah is nice. Access to Armstrhift+Axefair+Sol.

Edited by Subsonic

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Axefaire if you want her to be a support Wyvern, Wrath if you want her with a critstacking build, Despoil if you won't use either.

Henry!Nah has +3 Str and +3 Mag, so she can easily go either way. She has several good class options on both sides.

I find that FredxCherche works fine. Aegis + Pavise + Dual Guard+ or Dual Support+ + Renewal. Is it the modifiers that are derp? Or is it the average growths?

Vaike!Nah is nice. Access to Armstrhift+Axefair+Sol.

Basically Gerome should always be a hard support unit to capitalize on his high base Str and lack of GF, but Fred!Gerome is the weakest hard support of the bunch due to having no Faire (and he's very low on good support classes as well). All those defensive skills count for nothing in Apo either, because the RNG can always fail you and a failure in defensive skills means you either die (game over) or you don't (they didn't make a difference).

Edited by Czar_Yoshi

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Axefaire if you want her to be a support Wyvern, Wrath if you want her with a critstacking build, Despoil if you won't use either.

Henry!Nah has +3 Str and +3 Mag, so she can easily go either way. She has several good class options on both sides.

Basically Gerome should always be a hard support unit to capitalize on his high base Str and lack of GF, but Fred!Gerome is the weakest hard support of the bunch due to having no Faire (and he's very low on good support classes as well). All those defensive skills count for nothing in Apo either, because the RNG can always fail you and a failure in defensive skills means you either die (game over) or you don't (they didn't make a difference).

Oh I see. I forgot about them faires.

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I did some calculations and unless I made a mistake (checked a few times, a couple different ways, but I'll check again in the morning just in case) my 100% DS +Skill -Def FeMU @ Sniper (LB/GF/BF/Vengeance/AS+2) x Gregor!Yarne @ Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/AS+2/Str+2; 244 Hit) pair has guarranteed kills with Longbow against every enemy except NS and Anna, without MU even needing BF or Vengeance. The only benefit of them is increased chip damage against Anna and NS. That seems disposable enough. Some ideas for replacement skills are

Deliverer: If MU doesn't take one of the pairs of Boots, it can go to Donnel!Noire, giving her and her planned husband Stahl!Inigo more options.

Defender: Lets me use Vaike!Yarne instead of Gregor!Yarne, giving me a slightly better Morgan and letting Gerome take Gregor to have perfect Hit against mooks before Tantivy.

Anathema: Support for her less-blessed teammates.

How do these look? Is there anything I'm overlooking that would be a reason to use Vengeance and/or Bowfaire? Any other ideas for what skills to put in these slots? Thank you!

Edited by isetrh

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Avatar's Atk: 41(base) +2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +7(pairup) +5(BF) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) +16(Longbow) =95

Yarne's Atk: 40(base) +5(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Agg) +5(BF) +2(All+2) +2(Str+2) +2(tonic) +17(B.Bow) =103

Thronie's Def: 67. He takes 7+18+18+7+18+18 =86 damage. He'll live through that easily, and even his no-throne-having counterparts in Wave 5 can survive. So even with Avatar's BF, there are things that can take you. Even then, Deliverer over Vengeance probably isn't a bad idea. Also consider AT on Yarne, if you'll be using this couple a lot and he's got room for it it could save significantly more time here than elsewhere.

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